Basically what is happening now is my 98 page Dragon for $8 will be replaced by a 96 page, less content book for $20? Less pages for nearly three times the money? Who's kid needed braces to come up with this idea?
Two years from now I can't wait to see Pathfinder get replaced by a 90 page faux hardcover book for a mere $50 a month. Great prices if you happen to be a Trump I suppose.
Your 98 page Dragon is half ads (seriously, count them). Pathfinder has none, because it is a book. So if you had Dragon and Dungeon before ($16/month) you would be getting the same amount of content, in a better binding (Means alot to me, my magazines are all beat up from use at the game table + an evil cat) for a slightly higher charge.
I will admit this is a prince increase, and I would have preferred to keep the magazines too, but it was not Paizo's choice to discontinue them, it was WotC's. Paizo is doing what it can to make it's excellent, excellent products available.
Someone else here did an analysis that revealed the page cost of useable content would go from something like 20 cents a page to 20.5 cents a page. Considering how much finer the materials used will be, it's obscenely reasonable. Mebbe don't think $20 for a mag. Think $20 for a really nice softcover book.
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It doesn't matter about the nicer pages.
We didn't ask for nicer pages.
Paizo could do Pathfinder on the same kind of paper etc. they did Dragon and Dungeon on. Fine, WotC burnt the mags; let them feel the financial HURT (I hope their business suffers dramatically). But it makes no sense for Paizo to upgrade the materials they use for the replacement periodical.
The bottom line remains that we are paying 2 or 3 times more for less product.
-W. E. Ray
The bottom line remains that we are paying 2 or 3 times more for less product.
From what I understand there will be no adverts, so that's about 6-8 pages of more content already.
There also will be no mail section, no comics (I think), no random one-off maps or charts, or upcoming rpg-based products. The product will be all about the adventure(s), with nothing else to distract from that.I guess that I will, at the very least, obtain the first copy of Pathfinder to see if it's a feasible purchase.
Also does anybody know if the adventure's layout will be in the same format as that used in Dungeon, of if it will be laid out in the format that Wizards are now using for the likes of the Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde or Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, with several pages dedicated to each encounter (which I do find quaite appalling)?
Paizo to upgrade the materials they use for the replacement periodical.
The bottom line remains that we are paying 2 or 3 times more for less product.
-W. E. Ray
No, they couldn't. Pathfinder is a book not a magazine, and that isn't just spin. The two are treated VERY differently by publishing companies, bookstores, and the U.S. Postal Service. If you printed a book on magazine paper, it'd really be a piece of crap. And, has been discussed in other threads and comfirm by Paizo staff, starting a new magazine from the ground up is risky as all get out and requires a multi-million dollar investment. This may be a replacement product, but it is not a periodical.
Since pathfinder is not a magazine, that frees up space previously used for ads, which are nearly half of a magazine. If you actually slowed down to read some of the things people are saying about pathfinder, you might realize that it's not the rip-off you seem to think it is.
I understand not wanting to commit to $20 a month when the mags cost less than that newsstand, but it's not the massive price-hike you seem to think it is.
Creative Director
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In the end, the best thing to do if you're concerned about the price is to simply check out Pathfinder when it hits the shelves; that's really all I can ask. :-)
As for layout, Pathfinder's adventures will be pretty similar to the way Dungeon does adventrues now. We won't be using the Delve format, which is what WotC is using for their adventures these days.
In the end, the best thing to do if you're concerned about the price is to simply check out Pathfinder when it hits the shelves; that's really all I can ask. :-)
As for layout, Pathfinder's adventures will be pretty similar to the way Dungeon does adventrues now. We won't be using the Delve format, which is what WotC is using for their adventures these days.
Delve format? I just thought they were adventures. Not exactly clear on that one - can you briefly explain Delve format? If you have the time, how would Paizo's new format be different? (btw, very much looking forward to Pathfinder)
James Kiely 34, I can see you're upset.
I can also see that Pathfinder probably won't be for you.
But try to remember that Pathfinder really isn't meant to be a replacement for Dragon, or even for Dungeon really. It is meant to fill the void that will be left.
That being said, you might be able to get what you are looking for from WoTC's planned online content. You may feel a little dirty afterwards... :-P
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Creative Director
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Pathfinder won't be for everyone, but there's more to it than an adventure you'll only play once. Check out the Pathfinder Blog post for a breakdown of all the other support material you'll be seeing in each volume. In the end, though, I certainly understand your feelings of betrayal and anger. All I can really ask is for you to check out Pathfinder when it hits the shelves in a few months. Until then, we're hard at work making the last few issues of Dragon and Dungeon as awesome as we can.
Y'know, and I'm only speaking for myself here, I'd be happy to have ads and a lower price.
Call me crazy, but I -liked- the ads. Not all of them, obviously ... but I liked seeing new stuff from various publishers and distributors, funky dice manufacturers, Reaper miniatures, Bioware, et al.
For that matter, a "From the Editor" and letters column would be good, too.
And comics. I really like the Order of the Stick one-offs.
-The Gneech
Delve format? I just thought they were adventures. Not exactly clear on that one - can you briefly explain Delve format? If you have the time, how would Paizo's new format be different? (btw, very much looking forward to Pathfinder)
I figured I'd step in and clarify this one.
The "Delve" format (which Pathfinder WON'T be using) is what's been used for the most recent adventures published by Wizards of the Coast, including Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, the new Demonweb Pits book, plus the Barrow King one and a few others. (Sorry, I'm only paraphrasing the names from memory right now.)
They use a format that includes a one- or two-page spread for each "combat/tactical" encounter, with all the details (monster stat blocks, common and obscure rules, etc.) needed to run that scene. For example, imagine a cavern with a river running through it, ropes strung across, a nasty squid in the river grabbing anyone who enters the water, and four goblin archers on the far bank. The two-page spread would include a mini-map of the cavern with notations on it for where the goblins should be placed as the encounter begins. The page would include information on:
Balance (to cross the ropes)
Swim and Drowning rules (for those who enter the water)
Grappling (for when the squid grabs someone)
Complete stat block for the squid
Complete stat block for the goblins
Definition of all the terrain features (floor, walls, etc.)
A read-aloud boxed text for what the PCs see when they enter
A read-aloud box text for when the archers reveal themselves and start shooting
And probably some other stuff I'm not thinking of right now.
It seems like a really good idea, and I can see it being wonderful for a convention-game-session, where you want each group's experience running through an adventure to be consistent. I could also see it being useful for someone taking their first, or even second, try at being DM, to help them remember the plethora of rules they'll need in each scene. Also, because the format provides the details of obscure rules that are needed for the scene, its likely that you can get exposed to obscure rules and other stuff you wouldn't have thought to include in an adventure you wrote yourself.
In practice, however, there's a downside. Most notably, you end up paying for the fact that the goblin stat block (or Strahd's, or whoever else's) is repeated, in full, fifteen times because that creature/NPC/whatever appears in 15 different possible combats throughout the adventure. Also of concern is the fact that the format basically assumes you'll approach the scene in a specific way: "Have the PCs place their minis within four squares of the eastern entrance to the cavern." If your players are creative, and approach in a way that the writer didn't take into account, much of the provided detail gets in the way instead of helping. I imagine the format also places some limits on the sorts of adventures you can run (for example, it seems to discourage open-ended and role-play-heavy adventures, at least from what I've seen so far).
I imagine the format also places some limits on the sorts of adventures you can run (for example, it seems to discourage open-ended and role-play-heavy adventures, at least from what I've seen so far).
That was my take on it too. I bought Cormyr and it felt like it was a modual writen for a 10 yr old. almost no roleplay, not much in the way of a challenge, and I think I could run it in a single 4 hr session. Not inspiring.
I can't imagine this is Paizo's doing. So I'll just say this: I will never forgive WotC for dumping the two most iconic publications of D&D. Heck, I bought a couple issues of Dragon before I bought the 3.0 core books because I wanted to see what they said in there about the new edition ( was just getting back into D&D).
Paizo, you clearly made a mark with your publication of the mags though. Specifically your Adventure Paths. Before those, not many of my friends really talked about Dungeon adventures with any real seriousness.
I'd display my true feelings about this, but the forum has rules I have to abide by and I can't find a good place on the WotC forums yet to voice my discontent.
edit: I'll make certain to see what you're going to do with Pathfinder. I like the idea, though the price might make it less of a "just walked into the game store with a few bucks" kind of purchase - which the mags were.
Paizo, you clearly made a mark with your publication of the mags though. Specifically your Adventure Paths. Before those, not many of my friends really talked about Dungeon adventures with any real seriousness.
You're right about that. The Adventure Paths have set the bar pretty high for game moduals. And from what I've seen of WoTC's prepackaged games, they aren't even in the same league (I'm not sure they're even playing the same game.)
Well, I wonder if Shackled City was a success. If so, then that's the only reason we need I guess. Unless WotC hands out free digital version of both mags in the future, then I haven't the slightest idea how their new initiative is so exciting and better then two very cool mags. Notice how the Age of Worms adventure hardcover isn't happening now either. Heh.
Part of the problem for me, possibly, is that I feel like D&D belongs ot gamers not a company. But clearly WotC thinks the opposite. They claim they did this as "an end to an era" but personally I think we should make WotC's era come to an end by just ignoring them. :)
I figured I'd step in and clarify this one.
The "Delve" format (which Pathfinder WON'T be using) is what's been used for the most recent adventures published by Wizards of the Coast, including Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, the new Demonweb Pits book, plus the Barrow King one and a few others. (Sorry, I'm only paraphrasing the names from memory right now.)
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Thanks for the clarification; haven't bought either of those two new WotC products, so I didn't know of the change. I agree with you, the Delve format would be good for running some in-store demos or at conventions; not so good for moderately experienced DM's and groups. To each company their own, I guess. Thanks again.
Notice how the Age of Worms adventure hardcover isn't happening now either. Heh.
I wasn't aware that was confirmed. Last I had heard, the good folks at Paizo were still pursuing that possibility. Say it ain't so James, say it ain't so!
I wouldn't be surprised to see hardcover reprints of both remaining APs -- but now under the benevolent ownership of WotC.
I can't help but conclude that WotC is consolidating (monopolizing) ownership of all things D&D to keep the profits for themselves.
We'll see,
Jack
I wouldn't be surprised to see hardcover reprints of both remaining APs -- but now under the benevolent ownership of WotC.
I can't help but conclude that WotC is consolidating (monopolizing) ownership of all things D&D to keep the profits for themselves.
We'll see,
Jack
Watch Wizards pull back the OGL right before the first Pathfinder is published.
If they did that, I would NEVER forgive them. I was able to get over the loss of my favorite mags because of Pathfinder and the Gamemastery modules, but if everything was gone...
Wizards can't pull it back: It's an Open License. Just like open source software.
They could release 4th edition without making IT OGL, but they can't stop 3.0 and 3.5 products.
You guys MUST realize that $20 for a magazine is high (not uber high, but high... some game magazines are like 12 bucks but you get a dvd or ced with them)... Where I think the problem with your pricing really stands out, is the shipping and handling. $4 is absolutely outrageous. And I DO MEAN outrageous. Not to mention it is being shipped 7-10 day mail. I have never had a subscription to any magazine ever, that I paid a subscription price and extra for shipping. NEVER
I did the math in a different thread on these forums but to show it again.
Most people buy their DnD products from three main areas. 1) subscription. 2) On-line store. 3) specialty store (hobby, comic) or large book chain (borders, barnes and noble)
When we buy with subscription it is usually dramatically reduced in price. When we go to Comic or Hobby store 10-20% is an extremely common price savings they share with you, for being a regular customer. When I was into comics I paid 70% of cover because I bought there regularly... Now if you buy at borders or barnes and nobles, you can get 10% off just for signing up to be a preferred member. Not to mention the dozens if not hundreds of coupons they snail mail, or email you per year.
So let's assume you buy at a comic/hobby store. $20 price with 20% discount is 16 bucks. about $1.25 for tax puts you at $17.25 and you get to review to see if you like that month's issue, and you do not have to pay ahead of time. and you get it within 2 days of publisher release.
Go through Paizo subscription and you pay 14 bucks plus 4... Which equals 18 dollars, and you get it AFTER the stores, and you can not review it first, and you PREPAY, And sometimes the mags are damamged by post office ( a fact we deal with, since the discount is usually worth it.)
I think this is a mistake in your pricing guys. And trust me.. no one thinks a 96 page monthly periodical is a book. We all think it is a fancy magazine.. One that we will be paying more for then if we buy it down the street.
The problem here is that we've been getting such a great deal for such a long time that we didn't realize how great a deal it was.
The comparable product (WotC wise) to pathfinder is The Red Hand of Doom. It was even written largely by Paizo's own James Jacobs. It retails for $24.95 U.S.
looking at modules.... (Which, lets face it, is really what Pathfinder is... a large module with supplementary gaming material included). Outside of Paizo, the best available are (personal opinion, but I think their popularity bears it out) Goodman Games Dungeon Crawl Classics line which run from 12-25 bucks.... with the increase being almost entirely linked to page count. This is for a black and white module, done in classic D&D style. Most are significantly shorter in length than Pathfinder will be. In fact, Paizo is releasing a comparable product towards the lower end of that price scale (and it will even be in color!).
I appreciate that you think the price point is too high. Frankly it's high for my taste too. But what we're really looking at is not off the wall in its price. Role Aids, in the mid 80s, released a series of supplements based on major classes of monsters. The two best in the series were Undead and Dragons. They ran 96 pages and were printed in two colors.... an extravagance at the time. They are, for their era, a comparable product. The supplements cost $10. TWENTY YEARS AGO. While I wish the price was lower, I am frankly surprised that Paizo can afford to make the price as low as they are.
- Koldoon
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And trust me.. no one thinks a 96 page monthly periodical is a book. We all think it is a fancy magazine..
Sorry dude. I think of it as a book. Nothing I have read on Pathfinder leads me to believe it's a magazine, fancy or otherwise.
More over, the tons of softcover supplements i've bought over the years for cyberpunk and L5R convinced me that the 18.99 USD i'll be paying isn't at all over priced.
I'm still not sure how I feel about subscribing to softcover supplements though.
I'm still not sure how I feel about subscribing to softcover supplements though.
I'm also convinced (at least for now) that the product is reasonably described as a book and reasonably priced.
For what it's worth, I'm also leery of a subscription -- this is a campaign (or adventure), and I like to decide which of those I buy on a case-by-case basis.
Jack
I think Paizo's future is quite bright. I've been playing D & D (as well as other RPGs) since 1978, and Shackled City was simply far and above the best "module" (if you can forgive the ancient term) ever created. Despite setting the bar for modules, at one point, at a new, all-time high, at another point, many ancients, like myself, said, "Well it's about damned time somebody published a campaign-in-a-box!" I just don't have as much time to write as much of my own stuff anymore.
But Shackled City would have been successful, even if it's quality as a campaign wasn't so high, because of this innovation alone. The adventure path is now the standard that all gaming companies should compete for, and no other company is in as good a position to bear that standard, than Paizo, and their cadre of evil/insane geek-genuises (that's intended as a compliment ;^).
J. Jacobs & his boys have the ball, and it's their game to lose. My prediction of the outcome for Rise of the Runelords: touchdown. And I look forward to the game after that.
- FM
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I think there are some good points here.
I hope that Pathfinder is wonderful. I'm pained to see Dungeon go, but I admit I'm excited about the idea of a new campaign world that is well supported by regular adventures. Still, I have a number of concerns.
For myself, I am receiving 11 issues of Pathfinder as a credit from my subscription to Dragon and Dungeon magazines. I certainly appreciate the generous reduction in price for those 'substitute issues' relative to the regular cover price. I've also signed up for a 'month-to-month subscription'. For me personally, I can't see any reason to get 11 issues and not get the 12th, since that will conclude an Adventure Path.
If the quality of the content is good, I might want to continue to receive the publication each month, particularly if those issues continue to flesh out a campaign world that I find myself really excited by.
However, I don't need multiple adventure paths designed to bring characters from 1st to 20th level. For the groups that I play with, we've made a decision that we don't want to level our characters every session, or even every other session. We want to take some time to enjoy the abilities we gain before we get to use our new ones. I hope that the adventures released can support a slower style of play with a large number of adventures at mid-levels, since we're unlikely to start a new campaign every 6 months because we've just reached 20th level (again).
The above is a big concern for me, and I have my doubts about the long term sustainability of a repeating 'Adventure Path Line'. After a DM has 5 or 6 APs, I can't imagine that many people will need more.
If those concerns are addressed, I have worries about the form of the subscription. My wife cares less about how much I choose to spend on my hobby and more on how often I spend that money. She'd rather see me budget $600 or $200 or $1200 for a gaming expense than to force her to buget each month for the expense. In all seriousness, she'll begrudge the line on the check balance sheet more than she'll begrudge the money.
While my circumstances are probably unusual, I'd be very surprised if there are others who are unwilling to commit to a month-to-month subscription but would happily purchase a 6 month, 1 year or longer subscription.
In all likelihood, regardless of the quality of the content, an 'advance paid' subscription will be a requirement for my long term support of this new product offering.
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Hey Ron.
You say magazine. Paizo says book.
You know what it is really like? A journal.
The academics have these things all the time. They're books, usually comprised of a number of articles, and they're numbered in sequential fashion. They are not magazines.
They have several journal like features, but I don't think book is far from the truth. Tome & Blood and the other 'splat books' are also 96 pages. I don't know if they came out monthly or not, but I call them books as well.
For the record, Tome & Blood was $19.95 retail, and all the pages were black & white. I have the impression we're getting full color for the same price. I, for one, won't complain about that. Other things, certainly, but not what they call the product.
Ron -
Page count does not make a book. Frankly the new york times has a larger page count than some books, but no one would call it a book just by virtue of the page count.
If you feel it's a better deal to get it from your FLGS then certainly do so. Supporting FLGS is important... my brother owns a gaming store, and I met my husband in the one he used to own, so I feel strongly about supporting FLGS. Personally, I like the idea of having a pdf copy made freely available to subscribers, and this offsets any concern I have about a possible dollar difference in cost. But I should note, every game store in my area routinely charges standard suggested retail price, so I wouldn't be saving any money - not that you won't be... just be aware not everyone lives in an area that discounts things that way. Sadly my brother's store (which would give me a discount) is many hours away, so going there isn't an option for me.
Also, yes, there is a lot of negativity out there towards wizards right now. The decision to cease publication of two venerable institutions of the gaming world isn't a popular one. For contributors to the magazines, many of whom have submissions, queries, or even accepted manuscripts waiting to be published, this is a cruel blow that means our hard work may very well have been in vain. I currently only have two submissions waiting in the black hole both of which use proprietary content that I can't shop around elsewhere. I also have one accepted manuscript in to Dragon... and I sadly doubt it will see publication in the last few issues. Wizards is an easy target for that anger, and perhaps a misplaced one... time will tell. I'm not giving up on Wizards, but I'm not ready to give them a free pass either. Whatever they are replacing the magazines with had better be stellar.
On the other hand, Paizo's customer service in the face of these events has been outstanding. Their connection with their customers is very evident, and they are asking us to please try their new product, while not giving that as the only option. They choose to call Pathfinder a book, and I am content to call it that.
What I find frustrating is your insistance that it isn't okay for me to see it as a book. You're telling me I must be wrong to see it as a book. Have you entertained the possibility that we might both be right? Not all definitions are absolute. It is possible for pathfinder to be a magazine by your definition and still be a book by mine, and that should be okay.
- Ashavan
I remember the first time I laid my eyes on a Dungeon and Dragon mag, it was way back in 1985, I was 12 years old at the time (smiles & sighs)My dad took me to Westfield’s shopping mall in my home town of Liverpool (Australia) Dad was busy looking for a gift for his friend so we went to this really cool store called Games R Us, you know the type, filled with funny looking BBQ aprons, cool board games and some other crazy 80s nick knacks, anyways as Dad was talking to the shop clerk I ventured deeper within the store, something had attracted my attention, I was not sure what it was but it looked interesting, as I made my way to the very back of the store I found myself gazing near awe struck at a "life size" cut out of a Skeleton wielding a huge axe, as I drew my attention away from the fell creature I noticed that I had stumbled upon an entire corner of the store dedicated to D&D, there was this big shelf which contained all the old basic boxed sets and an assortment of other great books but what really got me was the two racks of Dungeon and Dragon Magazines!!, I marvelled at the covers, my imagination racing with a thousand thoughts as to what lay within those many enigmatic pages heh, I still remember the first Dragon mag I picked of that rack, Issue 93 Jan 1985, the cover had this great painting of a
Weretiger transforming as a huge Tiger watches guard over her!!!
Anyway I guess what I want to say is that I am a 100% believer in progress but as far as I’m concerned, your decision to discontinue the production of Dungeon & Dragon magazines is a step back rather then a step forward.
Since I live in Australia where we pay about $12 US for a Dungeon mag, I fail to see any way that the versatility of these two publications can even be remotely matched by the new Pathfinder book which will retail here for about $40 US.
tis a shame indeed...
I,m interested to here what other gamers think of the situation.
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3) Pathfinder is putting all it's eggs in one basket. (what if the adventure path is not to your liking, or god forbid... it is not UBER as some proclaim all Paizo products to be)
4) The pricing seems high to me, and I SPEND 40+ bucks on the hardbacks almost weekly... Not everyone will be as care-free with their gaming dollar as me. I know that people taking the time to voice their opinions, likes, dislikes, and concerns in a forum (as we all are doing) will probably spend the cash, but believe me, Paizo's Forum members will not keep Pathfinder alive by themselves. It will require far more of us than that. And I personally do not see tons of people running to the store to buy each and every issue of pathfinder month after month, and I also don't see those same people paying $18+ (subscription) when they can get it cheaper, or at a slightly higher price at the store....
You can all disagree with me, and say "Pathfinder will be the greatest thing ever!", or "Pathfinder is CHEAP at 20 bucks" etc... You may all be right. Or as more probable, you could all be very passionate people who care enough about DnD, or Paizo, or Dungeon/Dragon/Pathfinder to take your time and read and post to forums (like me). We are a small sampling of the gaming community and if we put ourselves in the "less passionate" minds of others, I think we can see that there is risk here... Lots of Risk.
Ok!
1- I'm not a Paizo fanboy. Dungeon and Dragon are the only things I've ever bought from Paizo. I'm giving Pathfinder a shot because I'm getting 3 free volumes (is the terms there using) and I subscribed 'cause might as well finish off the first AP. If I continue after the first, only time while tell. They asked us to give Pathfinder a shot and I decided to give them the chance.
2- As for the price, I don't find it expensive. I have a pile a foot and a half high of cyberpunk sourcebooks (all softcover and most under 100 pages and none are magazines...;-)...) which I paid about as much for, all black and white with art I could have done better. The concern I have, which I expressed in my last post, is unlike Ron I don't regularly buy sourcebooks (hardcover or otherwise) and Pathfinder requires me to buy one every month. 20 bucks for one, reasonable. Having to buy one every month, that's the part I don't know how I feel about yet.
3- Pathfinder isn't really putting all it's eggs in one basket. Half the books are the APs but the other half is all about the setting. I for one like reading about new settings. I might be a minority but that doesn't change anything. If I don't cancel my subscription after the first 6 volumes, it's because I'm enjoying reading about Varisia and Sandpoint and whatever. Also, I was never able to run all the adventures in Dungeon but still enjoyed reading them, so I'll always be reading that other half too even if I don't intend on running it. If someone doesn't like reading adventures there not going to run and isn't at all interrested in any setting other than their favorite one, well then Pathfinder aint for them.
4- I'm not anti-WotC. I never supported the Boycott and never will. I am sad that Dragon and Dungeon are going away, not angry.
Pathfinder won't be for everyone, but there's more to it than an adventure you'll only play once. Check out the Pathfinder Blog post for a breakdown of all the other support material you'll be seeing in each volume. In the end, though, I certainly understand your feelings of betrayal and anger. All I can really ask is for you to check out Pathfinder when it hits the shelves in a few months. Until then, we're hard at work making the last few issues of Dragon and Dungeon as awesome as we can.
By the way, what will be the first adventure about? And is it that each book has one adventure or each book has a chapter of that adventure?
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Chief Technical Officer
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I just wanted to toss out a few things.
When you actually get a copy in your hands, you will know that Pathfinder is a book. If you take it to a stranger, and ask them if it is a book or a magazine, they will tell you it's a book (and they'll probably give you a funny look, too).
I think you'll also find it's a pretty good value compared to the other RPG books out there.
Pathfinder is not shipping by Periodicals rate postage. Delivery will be zone-based, and should take 2–7 days within the US. We plan to ship subscriber copies at the same time as we ship copies to distribution; it will take distributors up to a week to get them in, and then up to a week to get them to retailers, so I'd expect that most subscribers will get their copies before they see them in stores. (However, since the USPS does not guarantee delivery times, we can't guarantee that.)
We are looking into other shipping options within the US; odds are good that you will be able to pay more to have it shipped faster, and there's actually a pretty good chance that we'll even be lowering the default $4 shipping charge without decreasing the delivery speed. Stay tuned.
If you have a game store that provides discounts on regular purchases, please patronize that store! Smart retailers like that deserve your business and are good for the industry.
Our choice to not offer fixed-length subscriptions has nothing to do with our faith in the product. It has to do with our previous experience with fixed-length subscriptions, and our awareness that many businesses are moving to similar ongoing billing strategies, and many customers are thrilled by that. It's easier for us, and it's easier for most of you.
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Chief Technical Officer
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By the way, what will be the first adventure about? And is it that each book has one adventure or each book has a chapter of that adventure?
Each book includes a HUGE adventure that can played by itself, or function as a large chapter in a much bigger story. I'll leave it to the editorial folks to tell you what it's about.
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I've read a bunch of angry rants about Dungeon vs Pathfinder.
"I won't use an adventure path!"
"I don't care if it's on better paper, I don't want my magazine to change, and especially go up in price!"
"It's less for more. You're trying to rob me!"
"I want comics!"
and this one, which I really love --
"You're taking out the advertisements! I LOVE the advertisements! You're being mean!"
So here's what it comes down to.
Dungeon is about 40% ads. Pathfinder doesn't have any. So there's more going on between the covers. Does it cost more? Yes. In case you haven't noticed, EVERYTHING costs more, these days.
Pathfinder is not a magazine. It is a softcover book, on par (I'm assuming) to the old splat books like Masters of the Wild.
Pathfinder won't be everyones cup of tea. If it's not yours, DON'T BUY IT. It is, however, the best solution that the hardworking folks at Paizo could come up with to keep feeding us, their adoring (and in some cases completely unappreciative) fans, the best content they can.
B!~*!ing at them doesn't seem to be the best way to thank them for trying.
But hey, what do I know?
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Our choice to not offer fixed-length subscriptions has nothing to do with our faith in the product. It has to do with our previous experience with fixed-length subscriptions, and our awareness that many businesses are moving to similar ongoing billing strategies, and many customers are thrilled by that. It's easier for us, and it's easier for most of you.
I understand that Paizo sees long-term subscriptions as a 'diminishing liability'. While I'm sensitive to that, I assure you that after I've received the first 12 issues (11 from my subscriptions) and one through 'month-to-month', I'll be done with the product unless a long term subscription is offered. Six months is sufficient to cover a single adventure path. Even if you don't offer 1-year or 3-year subscriptions, I have to say I think it'd be foolish not to allow someone to pre-pay for an entire AP.
Well, I really hope it IS a journal. Because if it's a journal, we can get around OGL by using this wonderful organization called the MLA.
Need a statblock wizards hasn't OGLed, or owns the right to? Just put an MLA citation down at the bottom and write a short critical analysis of the adventure afterwards.
Place a bibliography at the end of the article, and there's absolutely NOTHING wizards can do. I used to write these sorts of papers to get a masters degree, and trust me, if Pathfinder goes the route of the Scholarly D+D journal, wizards WILL have to eat it as long as everything is properly cited, bibliographied, and referenced.
It's a little more work, but in terms of licensing agreements, it doesn't matter, because no court will uphold Wizards right to deny people the right to do scholarly research on their product.
Well, I really hope it IS a journal. Because if it's a journal, we can get around OGL by using this wonderful organization called the MLA.
. . .
It's a little more work, but in terms of licensing agreements, it doesn't matter, because no court will uphold Wizards right to deny people the right to do scholarly research on their product.
<sniff> *That's beautiful, man!* <sniff>
;^)
- FM
The added humor comes from this.
Should Wizards attempt to remove this right by hook or by crook, every university will leap to the side of Paizo because otherwise, no scholarly journal will EVER be able to publish an article again.
Now, if you think Hasbro has a lot of money, why don't you try Ivy League universities....
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in my home town of Liverpool (Australia)
Heh. That's my home town too!
Since I live in Australia where we pay about $12 US for a Dungeon mag, I fail to see any way that the versatility of these two publications can even be remotely matched by the new Pathfinder book which will retail here for about $40 US.
Yes indeed. That is a LOT of (Australian dollar) money for me to spend on gaming products each month, particularly for adventure paths which, sadly, I will probably not get a chance to run for a long, long time, given my playing schedule and the fact that I'm still on Shackled City, and plan to move onto AOW and Savage Tide.
I'll give it a try with my remaining balance, and see how usefulit is to me. But if it is an overly humanocentric setting, I won't bother beyond that. I don't need "Dungeon" material, nothing against it. I'm just more curious and interested in the more "Dragon"-ish part of it. Perhaps as more customer oriented Paizo is, they might in the future have it available in split/cheaper format. I keep my fingers crossed, but not holding my breath, with the info about the iconic characters. ::( Too many humans. ::( But still looking forward what new stuff they'll have. ;;D
there's actually a pretty good chance that we'll even be lowering the default $4 shipping charge without decreasing the delivery speed. Stay tuned.
I would very happily wait an extra 4 weeks, if it meant saving $4 an issue. From my standpoint, delivery speed is irrelevant; Pathfinder will still be monthly, and does it really matter if you start an adventure this month or next month, as long as, once it starts, you're still getting 1/month?
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Chief Technical Officer
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After I discovered eBay five years ago, I switched to purchasing most of my D&D items (aside from Dragon issues and some novels) from it instead of RW stores.
I think this comic was meant for you.
Prefer words? Here's a brief statement from one of my favorite authors, Michael A. Stackpole. It applies to publishers as well as writers.
After I discovered eBay five years ago, I switched to purchasing most of my D&D items (aside from Dragon issues and some novels) from it instead of RW stores.I think this comic was meant for you.
Prefer words? Here's a brief statement from one of my favorite authors, Michael A. Stackpole. It applies to publishers as well as writers.
And to think it was just 18 months ago when I, here on Paizo, warned pro-piracy advocates that the hobby would be hurt by such actions.