Any word on why there's no new cover image for the issue that just shipped? I was half-expecting that there was going to be some big announcement they were making at Origins that was going to be sprawled across the cover, and they didn't want to let the cat out of the bag too soon, but as no one's said anything about a big announcement, I guess my imagination is just hyperactive.
~Qualidar~
Just to toss out a guess: It was mentioned in another thread that an error at the printers was delaying shipment by a week, and that images don't get popped up until the issue ships, generally. I'm guessing that the delay has worsened, or that posting the new image fell between the cracks after the printer error took things off plan.
Hi guys -- long time lurker, first time poster.
Just chiming in to say that I was surprised to see the new issue on the shelves of my local gaming shoppe. I usually get it in the mail before I see it there.
Anyhoo, if I recall, it had a reddish cover with an attractive woman surrounded by webs. I think it was supposed to be an aranea in its humanoid form.
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Hi guys -- long time lurker, first time poster.
Just chiming in to say that I was surprised to see the new issue on the shelves of my local gaming shoppe. I usually get it in the mail before I see it there.
Anyhoo, if I recall, it had a reddish cover with an attractive woman surrounded by webs. I think it was supposed to be an aranea in its humanoid form.
It is. I just got it today.
Why is it that my Playboys always show up fine, but my Dungeons take an extra 3 weeks and the wrapping is always spoilt. Dang gamer postmen!
GGG
Senior Software Developer
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The cover for Dungeon #137 is now up.
I think it's pretty striking, myself. Hot chicks and spiders! What more could you want?
I think it's pretty striking, myself. Hot chicks and spiders! What more could you want?
I almost thought it was Lolth at first, but she is too pale to be a drow.
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The cover for Dungeon #137 is now up.
I think it's pretty striking, myself. Hot chicks and spiders! What more could you want?
Nice!
Thoth-Amon
I dislike the covers with buxom women on them because it's embarrassing to read them in public. They think you're some kind of degenerate nerd, slavering over big-breasted elf girls. I'm a nice, normal guy with a kid so I obviously get laid, bucking the stereotype, and I think that this aspect of the game is a little juvenile, but unavoidable. "Pretty girls sell magazines."
This is one of the things keeping chicks from playing. My friend's girlfriend said, "this games seems kinda cool...what the hell? How can this girl possibly fight and cast spells around those things? Without the bras we have today, she'd be painfully bouncing all over the place...and aren't elves all skinny and small? Why the hypermammary development?"
I dislike the covers with buxom women on them because it's embarrassing to read them in public. They think you're some kind of degenerate nerd, slavering over big-breasted elf girls.
Have to agree here. I'm the author of Siege of the Spider Eaters, and though the cover is striking and will certainly sell magazines, I'm a bit too embarrased to have my mom hang this one on her fridge. Not sure what the extended family would respond to "Looky what little Timmy did..."
I've yet to see the adventure in print. To those of you already reading it...I hope you enjoy it! This first time author can't wait to see the rest of the art, layout, and editorial changes.
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Creative Director
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Every time we do a cover like the one for issue #137, two thigns are guarenteed to happen:
1) We'll hear outcry from readers who think the tactic is trashy and sleazy, and/or who think that covers like this do damage to the game, and/or are embarassed to read the magazine.
2) The issue proceeds to sell better than average.
Magazines with covers showing scantilly-clad, attractive women on the cover sell more; it's just a fact of the business. It's the main reason why most of those magazines you see at the checkout line in the supermarket all have supermodels on the cover. It works for Dungeon as well; we track how good each issue does and as it turns out, the "sleezy covers" end up doing well every time. So, like them or not, you can expect to see them show up now and then.
As for the cover to #137, I happen to really like it. It's an obvious riff on the movie poster for "American Beauty" (which went on to win Oscars, so it seems obvious that this type of advertising doesn't hurt movies either), but more to the point, it's a striking and creepy and sexy image of one of the key NPCs in the adventrue itself.
The T&A never bothered me...it's a fantasy game--of course the bad girl NPCs can cast spells around her big rack, and fight too...hopefully using the spring attack feat and tumbling skill....
I questioned Dragon's choice of covers last year when they asked the reader to bow down before Baphomet, but I ended up pretty much convinced that it wasn't a big deal--thanks to the readership posting here.
Brodie, if the slightest offensive thing, such as a little T&A on a cover of Dungeon keeps your friends from trying D&D, they're probably too sensitive to play this game anyway, so no loss as far as I'm concerned. I mean, a lot of women watch football even though there are cheerleaders prancing around the sidelines--what makes D&D any different? If I was trying to bring new gamers into the fold and had to worry about my gaming bag being full of potential landmines that might turn them away from the game, then they're not cut out for it anyway and probably shouldn't be recruited. I felt differently about this once at a time, particularly the occult aspects in the game, but my opinion changed. T&A in D&D, bring it on.
Does your friend walk out of movies because the women are portrayed as sex objects, or does she/he just chuckle about it as part of life and get on with watching the flick?
I leave you on this note:
Perform (Poledancing) --- 5 ranks or more in this skill give the character a +2 synergy bonus to tumble skills made within 5 feet of a floor to ceiling pole.
There, now you have every right to call me a sexist pig. (It's all a joke, of course--I'm not downplaying your views, I just don't agree with them)
f2k how dare you post such a skill! You're objectifying women and making them into sex objects!...Hey, I could use that for an NPC...
(Yes, I'm kidding and being sarcastic - f2k is a great guy...and here's a poke at the guys...)
Perform (Bodily Noises): Impress other males with your personal bodily oratory skills. This includes, but is not limited to, farting, belching (especially a well-known tune or reciting a passage), and making farting sounds with the armpit. Successful skill checks (DC 15+) will allow you to impress males of other species.
Everybody likes cheesecake covers (even me ;) ). I would like to see some beefcake covers as well, just to round things out. Masculine, good-looking, but not to the point of being effete. The human form is a beautiful thing, no matter what gender, and I do think a lot of people make a mountain out of a molehill as far as this particular issue is concerned.
I do prefer artwork where warrior/fighter type women (and men) are wearing practical clothing. The atypical chainmail bikini drives me crazy - WTF is the point of wearing armor if it ain't gonna protect you?
As far as keeping other chicks from playing...I believe that the attitude of the players and the DM is a far more telling factor than any artwork that may (or may not) be in a sourcebook. If the DM has some asinine house rule that gives women characters a -2 to Strength because "of their ability to bear children" or the other players (again, male or female) don't make me feel welcome or listen to my input, that is a bigger turn off than any piece of artwork featuring a scantily clad woman.
Objectifying women? Have you seen women's magazines? "Lose weight," "look sexy", "touch him in the right spot," "the latest diet," "catch and keep Mr. Right."
Personally, I ascribe to the D&D model of women - "Kick Ass," "Take Names," "Smite the Enemy," AND "Look Good While Doing It." :D If anything, D&D has some very strong, powerful, independent women. Iggwilv. Eclavdra. Quenthel Baenre. Storm Silverhand. Kitiara. Laurana. The Simbul.
If I was growing up and had the choice of the latest pop singer or one of the aforementioned women, I know what my choice would be.
Heck, I brought this one to work (and it's in the Top 5 of the Fortune 500). If I was offended, or think that someone else would be, just roll back the cover or read it with the covers on the table. If you still think it's offensive, don't bring it out in public. Out of sight, out of mind.
I've seen just as bad or worse with car, fitness, tabloids, dieting, PC gaming, and many other magazines (granted, they don't have spiders on them ; ).
If I cared what other people think, I wouldn't be carrying around a magazine with the word "dungeon" on it, as it could bring up other thoughts.
No offense, but it's like they say, "if you don't like the music, don't listen".
As far as the whole boob thing, the first brassiere was patented "in 1859 by Henry S. Lesher of Brooklyn", the first modern one was developed 30 years later (as per Wikipedia). Before that, it was restricted to a band of cloth, or belt, fitted over a shirt. One would think the Chainmail Bikini top, would fit into that category.
This is one of the things keeping chicks from playing. My friend's girlfriend said, "this games seems kinda cool...what the hell? How can this girl possibly fight and cast spells around those things? Without the bras we have today, she'd be painfully bouncing all over the place...and aren't elves all skinny and small? Why the hypermammary development?"
Without the bras we have today, they'd probably do the same thing they did in the middle ages - binding or, in later centuries, corsets.
I certainly hope the girlfriend doesn't want to play because of one artist's depiction of the game. "Chicks" probably isn't the best phrase to use, either. Some might take offense at it (doesn't bother me). "Ladies" or "women" is better. :D
Hypermammary...ROFLMAO! What a neat phrase!
Oh, and as a side bit of trivia, chainmail is horrible if you've got long hair. I was forever getting my hair caught in the links.
I dislike the covers with buxom women on them because it's embarrassing to read them in public. They think you're some kind of degenerate nerd, slavering over big-breasted elf girls.
You can always hide it in your Playboy when you read it in public ;)
From the spellbook of Senor Fetishimo:
Brassier
Evocation [Force], Protection
Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 0, Cleric 0
Components: S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Area of Affect
Targets: one creature in a 5' radius
Duration: 18 hours
Saving Throw: Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
Upon casting, the target' upper chest is surrounded by a force effect that limits mobility. The force effect stays active for up to 18 hours, or until dismissed. Casting on a target requires a willing participant (Saving throw is Will based).
Material component: a small piece of fabric (1cp minimum) consumed when cast.
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If I cared what other people think, I wouldn't be carrying around a magazine with the word "dungeon" on it, as it could bring up other thoughts.
Quite. I phoned the UK distributor from work to enquire about an irregularity with my Dungeon subscription, and my colleagues were all, "OOh, have your complimentary handcuffs not shown up? <Snigger>." Truly, the slings and arrows we must suffer.
Sex sells. So what else is new ?
I remember being embarassed by semi (or more) nude women on covers of FRPG books and magazines when I was much younger, but meanwhile you can´t buy a TV magazine without some sexy chick on it, so I don´t care anymore one way or the other. I don´t buy (or do not buy) a magazine for the picture on the cover, but for the content. And I´m unnerved by chain mail bikinis as well :-)
For the cover at question: I think I like it, judging from the picture on the website. It is sexy, yet creepy, like Zuggtmoy a while ago on the cover of Dragon.
Lilith put it quite well, with the women´s magazines seeming to aim to bring back women to the 50ies or 60ies, or what else are they up to ? And I don´t subscribe to the supermodels looking like heroine or crack addicts, and setting that as a goal to strive for. Give me real women with a mind of their own, not some half-starved clothes rack regurgitating the latest fashion (or their latest meal...)
Sorry for the rant.
Stefan
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Around Paizo, the most common problem people have with this month's cover is the spiders. Turns out that almost 20% of the staff is arachnophobic.
Oops.
-Vic (who thinks it's one of the best covers Paizo has ever had).
Spiders?!? There are spiders on the cover? Where? Behind the chick, er, woman? Augh, spiders!!!
If anything, D&D has some very strong, powerful, independent women. Iggwilv. Eclavdra. Quenthel Baenre. Storm Silverhand.
If I was growing up and had the choice of the latest pop singer or one of the aforementioned women, I know what my choice would be.
I bet even Iggwilv would strap her offspring into a car seat...and Eclavdra vs. the papparazzi....NOW, THAT would be entertaining!!
F2K, thank Baphomet you finally came around
It's sobering to realize it's not 1983 anymore. My Commodore 64 finally gave up the ghost and my Men At Work vinyl record finally wore out. I hung up my leather ties, found my socks and realized that the people preaching against D&D's occultism are more of a fringe group than D&D players themselves....now if I could just find my parachute pants.
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Perform (Bodily Noises): Impress other males with your personal bodily oratory skills. This includes, but is not limited to, farting, belching (especially a well-known tune or reciting a passage), and making farting sounds with the armpit. Successful skill checks (DC 15+) will allow you to impress males of other species.
My 3 y.o. son all ready thinks farting is funny. Don't know where he learned it; therefore it is instinctual.
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F2K, thank Baphomet you finally came aroundIt's sobering to realize it's not 1983 anymore. My Commodore 64 finally gave up the ghost and my Men At Work vinyl record finally wore out. I hung up my leather ties, found my socks and realized that the people preaching against D&D's occultism are more of a fringe group than D&D players themselves....now if I could just find my parachute pants.
Sub the TI99 with tape drive (Tunnels of Doom, baby!) for the C64 and the parachute pants for the glam-rock spandex and I hear ya. God I miss the 80's, that was a decade that you NEVER got to run your fingers through a girl's hair, what with 12" minimum height requirements on hair and all.
Good times.FH (misty-eyed for ages past)
Everybody likes cheesecake covers (even me ;) ). I would like to see some beefcake covers as well, just to round things out.
If Sheri Ray's "Gender Inclusive Game Design" is to be believed, this is at the core of the issue. She asserts that you get less protests of cheesecake when you get a full range of options in both genders. That is, if you have modest male avatars, modest female avatars, cheescake female avatars, and beefcake guy avatars to choose from, far fewer people will be bothered by the cheesecake.
D&D archetypes tend to reinforce full-coverage armor for the roles that demand muscle, but there are exceptions. Eldritch Knights, Arcane Archers and Monks all benefit from a high strength stat and a lack of armor. Any of these could fill a beefcake avatar niche. Drop one behind a female paladin in full coverage plate armor and you have an ode to role reversal. The Arcane Archer has an obvious tactical use for this setup, though he's the most prone to being a little yaoi, as an elf, thus spoiling the beefcake option.
And I don´t subscribe to the supermodels looking like heroine or crack addicts, and setting that as a goal to strive for. Give me real women with a mind of their own, not some half-starved clothes rack regurgitating the latest fashion (or their latest meal...)
Amen to that! :D
I'll try to be helpful. Two words: Brazilian Wax. No more hair caught in the links!
;)
FH (yes, I went there.)
You naughty, naughty man, Fakey! ;)
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The cover for Dungeon #137 is now up.
I think it's pretty striking, myself. Hot chicks and spiders! What more could you want?
There were spiders? I guess that I didn't notice...
Drop one behind a female paladin in full coverage plate armor and you have an ode to role reversal.
Not to ruin a perfectly good point, but the female Paladin usually has some adaptations to the armor. Otherwise, I'd say right on...
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Senior Software Developer
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There were spiders? I guess that I didn't notice...
I'm told there's a dragon somewhere on this cover, but damned if I can see it.
Perform (Poledancing) --- 5 ranks or more in this skill give the character a +2 synergy bonus to tumble skills made within 5 feet of a floor to ceiling pole.
All I have to say is that there should probably be a prerequisite with that, 'cause dude, that stuff is TOUGH.
Perform (Poledancing) --- 5 ranks or more in this skill give the character a +2 synergy bonus to tumble skills made within 5 feet of a floor to ceiling pole.All I have to say is that there should probably be a prerequisite with that, 'cause dude, that stuff is TOUGH.
Once we get into prerequisites, sounds to me like we're talking about a Poledancer prestige class. I'm guessing they get a Pole Jump ability to hop between poles 20' at 4th level and doubling every two levels thereafter, the ability to hide anything other than themselves or their possessions in plain sight so long as they're dancing, and some kind of 'slippery' ability other than the usual 'slippery mind'. Naturally, most of their abilities require them to wear no armor heavier than leather, and frequently less than that.
On another note, I suddenly feel like taking the challenge of writing up the Beefcake Arcane Archer/Eldritch Knight as a Critical Threat. Hm. Nah. Still more amused to stat out a SuicideGith first.
All I have to say is that there should probably be a prerequisite with that, 'cause dude, that stuff is TOUGH.
....unless you're a mummy ....(wrap it up, I'll take it)
Perform (Poledancing) --- 5 ranks or more in this skill give the character a +2 synergy bonus to tumble skills made within 5 feet of a floor to ceiling pole.
Ten foot pole dancing?
Ten foot pole dancing?
Definitely!
My first thought when I saw the cover of this issue was, "American Beauty". I haven't been able to find the movie still that I'm thinking of, but there is one shot where Kevin Spacey is fantasizing about Thora Birch surrounded with rose petals. I could swear that it was extremely similar to this cover.
EDIT: Actually I don't think it is Thora Birch he's fantazizing over. The pic I am referring to is the cover of the soundtrack.
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My first thought when I saw the cover of this issue was, "American Beauty". I haven't been able to find the movie still that I'm thinking of, but there is one shot where Kevin Spacey is fantasizing about Thora Birch surrounded with rose petals. I could swear that it was extremely similar to this cover.
EDIT: Actually I don't think it is Thora Birch he's fantazizing over. The pic I am referring to is the cover of the soundtrack.
It wasn't Thora Birch. Thora Birch played his daughter. As troubled as Kevin Spacey's character was, he didn't fantasize about his daughter. The character that he was fanatasizing about was his daughter's friend which was played by Mena Suvari.
Perform (Poledancing) --- 5 ranks or more in this skill give the character a +2 synergy bonus to tumble skills made within 5 feet of a floor to ceiling pole.All I have to say is that there should probably be a prerequisite with that, 'cause dude, that stuff is TOUGH.
That's why you should leave it to us professionals...when I said I was in theatre what did you think I meant? ;-)
Every time we do a cover like the one for issue #137, two thigns are guarenteed to happen:
1) We'll hear outcry from readers who think the tactic is trashy and sleazy, and/or who think that covers like this do damage to the game, and/or are embarassed to read the magazine.
2) The issue proceeds to sell better than average.
Magazines with covers showing scantilly-clad, attractive women on the cover sell more; it's just a fact of the business. It's the main reason why most of those magazines you see at the checkout line in the supermarket all have supermodels on the cover. It works for Dungeon as well; we track how good each issue does and as it turns out, the "sleezy covers" end up doing well every time. So, like them or not, you can expect to see them show up now and then.
As for the cover to #137, I happen to really like it. It's an obvious riff on the movie poster for "American Beauty" (which went on to win Oscars, so it seems obvious that this type of advertising doesn't hurt movies either), but more to the point, it's a striking and creepy and sexy image of one of the key NPCs in the adventrue itself.
I'm not going down this road anymore.
I like it! I was grumbling about the cheesecake covers a while back because they all looked to be in the same pose. But this one is new and different, dare I say artistic. Awesome job!
-Amber S.
I have not gotten my issue in the mail yet.
We had some flooding here in Pennsylvania a bit more than a week ago, so that may account for some delay.
Anyone else NOT get their issue in the mail yet?
I like it! I was grumbling about the cheesecake covers a while back because they all looked to be in the same pose. But this one is new and different, dare I say artistic. Awesome job!
Just got my copy in the mail today, and I love the expression on her face - somewhat haughty, but she knows something, I know she does.
I have not gotten my issue in the mail yet.
We had some flooding here in Pennsylvania a bit more than a week ago, so that may account for some delay.
Anyone else NOT get their issue in the mail yet?
Yeah dude, I'm in York, PA, and I haven't gotten mine yet either. Grumble grubmle.