Im planning on running AP2 in FR, there have been posts on here and in the conversion notes about making the ebon triad worshippers of the dead three.
Eric Boyd has suggested the use of a feat that allows clerics to get spells from dead dieties.
My question is that i dont have access to the old realms books therefore i dont know what domains/holy symbols Bhall and Myrkul have as they are not covered in the 3.5 faiths and pantheons book.
Any advice or where to look/find out what i need and any more info would be great
Im planning on running AP2 in FR, there have been posts on here and in the conversion notes about making the ebon triad worshippers of the dead three.
Eric Boyd has suggested the use of a feat that allows clerics to get spells from dead dieties.
My question is that i dont have access to the old realms books therefore i dont know what domains/holy symbols Bhall and Myrkul have as they are not covered in the 3.5 faiths and pantheons book.
Any advice or where to look/find out what i need and any more info would be great
From "Lost Empire of Faerun"
Bhaal: Death, Destruction, Evil, Retribution Portfolio: Assasination, Murder, Violence Weapon: Dagger
Myrkul: Death, Evil, Suffering, Undeath Portfolio: Corruption, the dead, death, old age Weapon: Scythe
The feat Eric was talking about is also from "Lost Empire of Faerun" and is called Servant of the fallen is essentially lets you use a death god as you worship god and 'it' grants you full access to spells (some other stuff but that is the jist of it).
From "Faith and Pantheons"
Bane: Evil, Destruction, Hatred, Law, Tyranny Portfolio: Strife, Hatred, Tyranny, Fear Weapon: "The black hand of Bane" (gantlet).
Cheers,
ET
Tks. any idea what their holy symbol image was??? i know bane's is clenched hand with green rays but no idea what Bhaal/myrkuls was/is
Tks. any idea what their holy symbol image was??? i know bane's is clenched hand with green rays but no idea what Bhaal/myrkuls was/is
Boy you got me digging now! (Tells you how long I've been playing Dungeon,
So according to the "Faith and Avatar" (2nd Edition) Bhaal's symbol is a white, face-on human skull surrounded by ta counter-clockwise orbit of many streaming teardrops
As for Myrkul his symbol is a white human skull face-on against a black field or a reaching white skeletal hand in white on a black field, (in recent years (2nd edition just before the time of trouble) either symbol usually shown on an inverted black shield with a continuous border of white, stylized human fingerbones)
I could scan them for you if you like.
Cheers,
ET
Note: Just noticed that Eric actually cowrote the Faith and Avatar... wow that put's him up there as well as for how long we've been around the game
I've been playing for about 25 years now, mostly DMing
I could scan them for you if you like.I too am running AP2 and would love to see the scans!
I can Certainly do that but I don't know were we can post them. I can't upload images here any idea?
25 years? That's nothing! I've been playing since '77 or '78 (before the 1e DMG came out).
:-)
--Eric
Tks for all info. Now u mention what they look like i kinda can recall them, but dont have my second edition books any more. As for length of play, i rememebr getting my basic redbook box way back in 79. God i feel old.
Thanks again, been good to keep busy on here today reading all posts as living in London, it is kinda nice to take my mind off events. Thanks
25 years? That's nothing! I've been playing since '77 or '78 (before the 1e DMG came out).
:-)
--Eric
My mom gave me and my brother the Red box in French in '81 and that is how I started try to beat that!!
Boy you where right there at the genesis of the greatest hobby ever!! I was 8 in '77 so just a bit early for me. I'm saying that and my son (which is now 7) loves to watch up play and already has a character that I let him play in simple story with. pffeeeww man I'm old. This game bring so much enjoyment to me, my familly (yes my wife plays also) and my friends I hope we continue playing when we're 80 now that would be great
- Hey Grampa you actually used *real* dices to roll to hits
- Well yes we actually had to use our arms to swing the dices on the table not what you kids do these days just hardwarewire your brain to the net and think of rolling a d20... ahh the good old times ;-)
Cheers Eric and i'd love to play with you someday now that would be something!!
ET
Concerning the merging of these gods, I'm not sure if I understand why Bane would want anything to do with two dead gods. Or is this grand conjunction out of Bane's control?
Tks for all info. Now u mention what they look like i kinda can recall them, but dont have my second edition books any more. As for length of play, i rememebr getting my basic redbook box way back in 79. God i feel old.
Thanks again, been good to keep busy on here today reading all posts as living in London, it is kinda nice to take my mind off events. Thanks
Just notice the London bombing dude. My toughts are with you.
Cheers,
ET
Concerning the merging of these gods, I'm not sure if I understand why Bane would want anything to do with two dead gods. Or is this grand conjunction out of Bane's control?
Out of his control (and he has no idea its aossibility, other than the nonsensical ramblins of a heretical cult).
--Eric
You could have Bane as granting spells to his heretical worshippers that are cooperating with followers of the dead gods because that way he hopes to integrate the faith energy of followers of the dead gods to grant him greater power, since he is the only one of the three around to benefit from the "merger" which he might think (or know) is really impossible anyway.
Ok guys check out my blog (which is empty save for the photo album named Dead Gods)
In the photo album you will find the symbol of Myrkul and Bhaal.
Enjoy
http://spaces.msn.com/members/etplanet/
You could have Bane as granting spells to his heretical worshippers that are cooperating with followers of the dead gods because that way he hopes to integrate the faith energy of followers of the dead gods to grant him greater power, since he is the only one of the three around to benefit from the "merger" which he might think (or know) is really impossible anyway.
I like that idea. Thanks.
I'm also planning on running AoW in the Realms but I was thinking that it might be a bit complicated since one of the Dead Three is alive and well: Bane.
I've got time since another DM is still running Shackled City (we're about half-way through) but I was figuring that it makes more sense to turn the Ebon Triad into an evil cult of Ao that is trying to bring the three gods into one uber-evil god as per Ao's plans. Balance of power and all that.
As for their symbols: Bane has a new symbol now that he's returned (clawed fist clenching green light) and Myrkul has been mentioned as being contained within the Crown of Horns (see Faiths and Pantehons: Horned Harbinger prestige class for some 3rd edition details) I think a new symbol would be appropriate: a skull with horns. Bhall could have the same symbol as before.
Concerning the merging of these gods, I'm not sure if I understand why Bane would want anything to do with two dead gods. Or is this grand conjunction out of Bane's control?Out of his control (and he has no idea its aossibility, other than the nonsensical ramblins of a heretical cult).
--Eric
Or that he's evil and the diaboloical schemes of an apocoliptic cult are right up his alley. He'll use them to spread discord and if they happen to show that they can really do what they said, he'll have fun slaughtering the bunch of them. Aw, to be an evil god...
Tks. any idea what their holy symbol image was??? i know bane's is clenched hand with green rays but no idea what Bhaal/myrkuls was/is
It looks like I have now met one d&D player who has never played the Baldurs Gate computer game series..
by the end of it I had seen more than enough of Bhaal's symbol, thank you very much.
Am I missing something? I thought the Ebon Triad was simply a cover for Kyuss, so the Lord of Worms could gain more power? Wouldn't the spells be coming from him and not Bane or some other god? Both Shar and Cyric have used this trick before to get clerics of other gods worshipping them.
As for using or not using Bane, simply replace him with Moander. Moander is the god of corruption, disease, and decay, and takes the form of a giant plant like monster or a worm-like creature probably not too disimilar from the worm-things portrayed on the cover of issue #124. plus he's long dead. I think using Moander would give Kyuss a perverse pleasure.
Of course that sparks one final question I have not personally seen answered yet. What god replaces Kyuss in the FR? if its Moander, I apologize for bringing up the previous point.
Am I missing something? I thought the Ebon Triad was simply a cover for Kyuss, so the Lord of Worms could gain more power? Wouldn't the spells be coming from him and not Bane or some other god? Both Shar and Cyric have used this trick before to get clerics of other gods worshipping them.
These are really interesting questions. Even in the Greyhawk version, is Kyuss actually a deity? I think Kyuss predates Vecna with respect to their human, wizardly lives, but I'm not sure if Kyuss ascended as a power (did he?). I was under the impression (which could be wrong) that the priests of the Ebon Triad were still gaining their spells directly from their gods. Since those gods aren't dead, and their portfolios haven't been absorbed (like Ibrandul's being absorbed by Shar), could a demipower or even a major power pretend to be another active deity? I think Cyric got away with it for a short while because he wasn't technically giving someone spells in another deity's name, but causing a crisis of faith (again, though, I could be wrong on this).
I was on another thread where this question was kinda answered. Kyuss is indeed an ancient minor demi-god (formerly a cleric of Nerull I do believe), so in theory he could be granting the Ebon Triad members spells. I know that Myrkul and Bhaal are still 'alive' in a strange sort of way, but not to the point of granting spells to every worshipper.
I know that Myrkul and Bhaal are still 'alive' in a strange sort of way, but not to the point of granting spells to every worshipper.
So in "Lost Empire of Faerun" the new feat "Servant of the Fallen" let's you worship and get spells from the dead gods, not only Bhaal and Myrkul but Moander and many others.
It was my understanding that the term "dead" just means "lost." These gods still have some sort of influence, just a minor one at that. And since their servants are few and far between and I mean FEW... what little power they have is enough to grant spells.
Hi Phil,
No I think it is very important that the three gods be Bane, Mhyrkul and Bhaal (see below).
In the FR, Kyuss is replaced by Jergal (see Eric's notes). You might remember that the three gods of the Ebon Triad came to godhood thanks to a pact/deal with Jergal (who was tired of his job). When the three adventurers, Bane, Mhyrkul and Bhaal approached him and fought over his godly attributions (which he was happily giving away), he rather suggested a game so that they determine how they share his powers and attributions among themselves.
Since Eric L. Boyd indicated in his conversion notes that Jergal is behind the cult, one can assume that, knowingly or not, the Ebon Triad cultists get either their spells via the "Servant of the Fallen" Feat (LEoF) or via Jergal himself (probably the case for the Banite).
Bocklin
Am I missing something? I thought the Ebon Triad was simply a cover for Kyuss, so the Lord of Worms could gain more power? Wouldn't the spells be coming from him and not Bane or some other god? Both Shar and Cyric have used this trick before to get clerics of other gods worshipping them.
As for using or not using Bane, simply replace him with Moander. Moander is the god of corruption, disease, and decay, and takes the form of a giant plant like monster or a worm-like creature probably not too disimilar from the worm-things portrayed on the cover of issue #124. plus he's long dead. I think using Moander would give Kyuss a perverse pleasure.
Of course that sparks one final question I have not personally seen answered yet. What god replaces Kyuss in the FR? if its Moander, I apologize for bringing up the previous point.
Actually Bocklin, I disagree with Eric Boyd making Jergal the central bad guy of the AP. Not only did Jergal willing give up his portfolios to other gods, but his LN alignment hardly makes him the best candidate. I doubt Jergal would create such loathsome creatures as the spawn of kyuss or the ulgurstata, or would have NE alien monsters like the avolakia worshipping him. It just doesn't fit his profile. Now if Eric gave a good reason for this transformation then so be it, but the drastic change in Jergal's behavior is hardly reasonable without some extensive justification. In this regard I think Velsharoon is a more apt deity. The only problem with Velsharoon is that he is not an ancient god, and thus does not have enough history to be a suitable Kyuss replacement.
As for the Dead Three, its fairly common knowledge that Bane is now alive and well, at least amongst religious circles, so any clerics of the Ebon Triad need some justification for placing Bane in the mix unless you place the AP before his resurrection. What about the Godson (not sure if I can remember how to spell his full name)? Surely he would be a fitting replacement? I'm sure there are some clerics of his that would be peeved with Bane using him as a receptacle for his rebirth.
Actually Bocklin, I disagree with Eric Boyd making Jergal the central bad guy of the AP. Not only did Jergal willing give up his portfolios to other gods, but his LN alignment hardly makes him the best candidate. I doubt Jergal would create such loathsome creatures as the spawn of kyuss or the ulgurstata, or would have NE alien monsters like the avolakia worshipping him. It just doesn't fit his profile. Now if Eric gave a good reason for this transformation then so be it, but the drastic change in Jergal's behavior is hardly reasonable without some extensive justification. In this regard I think Velsharoon is a more apt deity. The only problem with Velsharoon is that he is not an ancient god, and thus does not have enough history to be a suitable Kyuss replacement.
what about the god of the dead that Jergal replaced. If I recall my pantheon legends correctly, isn't it alluded to that the god of the dead has gone through several iterations in the past. Maybe Kyruss in FR was deposed by Jergal.
Hum. I have not read the second adventure yet, so I am limited to what is in the Whispering Cairn. But isn't it possible to assume that a LE cult of Jergal would happily go the way that you mention?
I wonder if Eric has tackled this issue in the soon-to-come expanded conversion notes (in AoW Overload?).
Bocklin
Actually Bocklin, I disagree with Eric Boyd making Jergal the central bad guy of the AP. Not only did Jergal willing give up his portfolios to other gods, but his LN alignment hardly makes him the best candidate. I doubt Jergal would create such loathsome creatures as the spawn of kyuss or the ulgurstata, or would have NE alien monsters like the avolakia worshipping him. It just doesn't fit his profile. Now if Eric gave a good reason for this transformation then so be it, but the drastic change in Jergal's behavior is hardly reasonable without some extensive justification. In this regard I think Velsharoon is a more apt deity. The only problem with Velsharoon is that he is not an ancient god, and thus does not have enough history to be a suitable Kyuss replacement.
As for the Dead Three, its fairly common knowledge that Bane is now alive and well, at least amongst religious circles, so any clerics of the Ebon Triad need some justification for placing Bane in the mix unless you place the AP before his resurrection. What about the Godson (not sure if I can remember how to spell his full name)? Surely he would be a fitting replacement? I'm sure there are some clerics of his that would be peeved with Bane using him as a receptacle for his rebirth.
While I'm not going to run the AP in the FR (I'll probably run it in my own modified Greyhawk campaign), I'd do as Black Dougal suggested and make Kyuss the god of the dead that Jergal deposed. If Kyuss was forcibly deposed then he certainly would want to get back into power.
I would also consider replacing Jergal for Moander. I know Moander is supposed to be permanently dead, but perhaps he has risen again in an undead form (similar to the way Orcus rose as Tenebrous). That would certainly give him a connection with the portfolio of undeath (instead of just corruption and decay) and would certainly change the way he did things.
Since the Ebon Triad is trying to unite three gods into one Overgod the gods need not be dead, thus Talona, Talos, and Malar could be suitable replacements for those who are just sick of the Dead Three. Of course, this would change the cult's emphasis slightly, but I still think it's a viable alternative.
Not sure if this is important, but although Jergal may be replacing Kyuss thematically - in the FR variant, I don't think Eric means to get rid of the idea of Kyuss being a long-dead archmage/necromancer. So I don't think Jergal is meant as a literal replacement of Kyuss (although I could be wrong).
As the previous god of the dead, death, etc, it's definitely the case that Jergal offered up portions of his divinity to Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul. The question, really, is why. The knucklebones story says that Jergal smiled (or something close) because he had been "delivered." What if Jergal is and was doing something that's within his duties. Currently, he is the Lord of the "End of Everything," a mysterious title. Jergal may have seen Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul as a method of acting in the best interest of his job. After they ascended, the three of them sure brought about whole new levels of entropy and death.
Jergal might see the age of worms / Ebon Triad merger of the Three as simply a continuation of the duties of his portfolio. Jergal is acting strangely to us, in the sense that he has given up a lot of his power and retreated behind the scenes. But he's a really old deity with long-term plans. He might not care about anything, as long as he brings "The End of Everything" a little closer to fruition... or entropic chaos, as the case may be.
So I think it's ok to have Jergal plotting with the Ebod Triad, doing his Jergal thing, and also have the historical line of Kyuss as a long-dead archmage-necromancer. At least in the FR variant. It doesn't really matter if Kyuss is a deity in FR, because the priest's spells could be coming from Jergal - or from Bane or Shar or someone else who likes to spead chaos. One interesting path to take would be keeping Iyachtu Xvim "on the scene"... as the godson of Bane, maybe he is pretending to be Bane because it would be in his interest to steal the portfolio of fear from Cyric. Perhaps Bane didn't come back at all, and it's really Iyachtu. Or Bane could be restored, and is just granting spells to the Ebon Triad for evil kicks. That part probably doesn't matter, but there would be some awfully fun plot twists there.
Anyway, just some random thoughts...
Actually Bocklin, I disagree with Eric Boyd making Jergal the central bad guy of the AP.
Certainly your right, and it sounds like you've got your campaign going in a very interesting direction.
Not only did Jergal willing give up his portfolios to other gods, but his LN alignment hardly makes him the best candidate. I doubt Jergal would create such loathsome creatures as the spawn of kyuss or the ulgurstata, or would have NE alien monsters like the avolakia worshipping him. It just doesn't fit his profile. Now if Eric gave a good reason for this transformation then so be it, but the drastic change in Jergal's behavior is hardly reasonable without some extensive justification.
I actually agree with all of this, except I think I've come up with a good reason for this transformation. I'm not trying to be mysterious ... Erik's clearly said AoW is supposed to be an open book to the DM ... but I'm being careful about saying too much before I've thought it fully through. In other words, I've read the overview, I've come up with a Realms variant I think works well with the overview, but I haven't seen any more actual adventures yet than you have.
As for the Dead Three, its fairly common knowledge that Bane is now alive and well, at least amongst religious circles, so any clerics of the Ebon Triad need some justification for placing Bane in the mix unless you place the AP before his resurrection.
Actually, for my conversion, the justification is trivial: Bane resurrected, check. Now, should we focus on Bhaal or Myrkul next? The goal of the Ebon Triad is the resurrection of the three gods, who will then merge to form the Overgod. (At least that's what they believe.) They're happy to claim credit for Bane's resurrection.
--Eric
I like how this sounds, Laeknir. You nicely managed to present Jergal as something creepy. Seems that it fits well with what we have seen of the AP so far.
The AoW Overload will probably lift a lot of the confusion and uncertainty about the big Evil at work here. I look forward to reading it.
Bocklin
Jergal might see the age of worms / Ebon Triad merger of the Three as simply a continuation of the duties of his portfolio. Jergal is acting strangely to us, in the sense that he has given up a lot of his power and retreated behind the scenes. But he's a really old deity with long-term plans. He might not care about anything, as long as he brings "The End of Everything" a little closer to fruition...
So I think it's ok to have Jergal plotting with the Ebod Triad, doing his Jergal thing (...)
... Actually, for my conversion, the justification is trivial: Bane resurrected, check. Now, should we focus on Bhaal or Myrkul next? The goal of the Ebon Triad is the resurrection of the three gods, who will then merge to form the Overgod. (At least that's what they believe.) They're happy to claim credit for Bane's resurrection.--Eric
Myrkul next would totally rock... I'm envisioning the Crown of Thorns on the Faceless One's head. And the Faceless One could even be in a state of not-quite-living, almost dead, decaying putrefaction... becoming even more "faceless" as he continues to rot, and walking around with that evil crown. Seriously cool levels of creepy there! :-) Or the cult could put the Crown on one of their own, or one of the good NPCs in town... like poor Allustan!
The best thing about DnD is the malleability of the game! At level 4, my players would totally pee their pants if the Crown of Thorns showed up.
I like how this sounds, Laeknir. You nicely managed to present Jergal as something creepy. Seems that it fits well with what we have seen of the AP so far.
Thanks! I like Jergal... he's been underused so far in FR, and he has loads of dispassionate creepiness just under the surface!
Not sure if this is important, but although Jergal may be replacing Kyuss thematically - in the FR variant, I don't think Eric means to get rid of the idea of Kyuss being a long-dead archmage/necromancer. So I don't think Jergal is meant as a literal replacement of Kyuss (although I could be wrong).
Sorry if there was some confusion. In the FR variant, Jergal and Kyuss are separate individuals. In other words, Jergal is Jergal. He's not replacing anyone ... he's an outside actor in the FR plot that's not in the core plot. His introduction is what makes the Ebon Triad other than deluded fools (which is what they are in the core plot) and actually on to something (even if it's not exactly what they think it is). In the adventures to date, Jergal's hand is no where visible. It won't show up til much later.
--Eric
Sorry if there was some confusion. In the FR variant, Jergal and Kyuss are separate individuals. In other words, Jergal is Jergal. He's not replacing anyone ... he's an outside actor in the FR plot that's not in the core plot. His introduction is what makes the Ebon Triad other than deluded fools (which is what they are in the core plot) and actually on to something (even if it's not exactly what they think it is). In the adventures to date, Jergal's hand is no where visible. It won't show up til much later. --Eric
Sweet! Using Jergal in this is just excellent. I think I'll keep Kyuss as a big old red herring for a long time, dropping lots of clues about him here and there, but then... Jergal! It would be great if most of the Ebon Triad didn't know about Jergal until their own success works against them in a critical moment. They could even do something similar in the Greyhawk version by introducing a plot by Tharizdun in a similar way.
Sorry if there was some confusion. In the FR variant, Jergal and Kyuss are separate individuals. In other words, Jergal is Jergal. He's not replacing anyone ... he's an outside actor in the FR plot that's not in the core plot. His introduction is what makes the Ebon Triad other than deluded fools (which is what they are in the core plot) and actually on to something (even if it's not exactly what they think it is). In the adventures to date, Jergal's hand is no where visible. It won't show up til much later.--Eric
Well that changes everything. I'm quite happy with your conversion now that you have pointed out Jergal is not replacing Kyuss. Then again, every challenge I issued was simply to present other DMs with a few options. I think by mentioning Moander as a suitable replacement for Kyuss, and by substituting the Gods of Fury for the Dead Three I have done just that.
By the way Laeknir, your take on Jergal is quite interesting. At least where giving DMs a few more options/clarifications to think about. Of course, now people are going to ask Eric about who should replace Kyuss. How about making Kyuss a renegade banelich who thinks that the current incarnation of Bane is a lie? That would certainly throw a spanner in the works.