SPOILER ALERT: If you haven't seen Episode 3 of Star Wars, go away!
Good, you're still here. I just wanted to shout into the Void about one teensy, tiny, almost sub-atomic thing that bugged me about Episode 3.
Before Vader has his legs cut-off on the lava planet, Obi-Wan warns him not to attack a foe on higher ground. Naturally, Vader attacks anyway. So, as if to prove his point, Obi-Wan cuts off Vader's legs. Remember that? Good.
Now remember back to the moment when Obi-Wan killed Darth Maul in Episode 1. Obi-Wan was dangling in a FRIKKIN PIT. Darth Maul was on the edge of the pit, looking down at Obi-Wan. If anybody ever had the advantage of higher ground, it was Darth Maul at that moment. And yet Obi-Wan LEAPS out of the pit and cuts Darth Maul in HALF!!
That's my teensy-tiny, almost sub-atomic gripe. Considering the manner in which he killed Darth Maul, it was WRONG of Obi-Wan to lecture Anakin about the advantages of higher ground. Sheesh!
Anyhow, thank you for listening, Void. And don't get me wrong, Episode 3 rocked my world.
Tony M
Yoda's piggy-back!
Ah, bless!
Yeah, but don't forget, when Darth Maul had Obi-Wan pinned down, Obi-Wan didn't even have his lightsabre. Maul was arrogant and didn't even think Obi-Wan would mount an offensive, as shown by the (not particularly dignified) look on Maul's face when Obi-Wan jumped out with lightsabre in hand.
The other thing to keep in mind is that Obi-Wan really didn't have a choice. He had to take the gamble of jumping out of the pit. Anakin could have just drifted further down stream and tried to find a better spot to get back to land, though it may have meant that the fight ended for a while. He was so anxious for the kill he did something that Obi-Wan was prepared for.
This is actually really simple to justify. Basically, in RotS, Anakin failed his tumble check and Obi-Wan got an attack of opportunity. In Menace, however, Maul wasted his AoO on the lip of the pit...
Fletch, that was precious . . . and we don't even need to go into how many force points the various characters had left!
...Anakin failed his tumble check and Obi-Wan got an attack of opportunity....
Haha :)
Okay, I don't have a problem with the good and bad dice rolls involved in the combat. I'm just saying, Obi-Wan would never have told Anakin that he's doomed if he attacks a foe on higher ground.
Anybody else in the universe might say it, perhaps--but never Obi-Wan! Not after battling Darth Maul. The killing of Darth Maul, who stood on higher ground, was Obi-Wan's most glorious moment in his whole life!!!
Obi-Wan probably dreams about that battle every night, and I'm sure he's told the exciting story a thousand times in bars for free drinks.
When other Jedi pass him in the hall, they're certain to whisper to their companions, "That was Kenobi, the Jedi who killed that foe on higher ground!"
Heck. I bet Obi-Wan teaches a class at the Jedi Academy entitled, "The Myth of Higher Ground: How to Kill Your Opponent."
Obi-Wan would never have lectured Anakin like he did! It invalidates his life's most GLORIOUS ACHIEVEMENT!
:)
Tony M
Actually there was an artical I read ( think in dragon before the cut out the star wars stuff), that said that in the fight with darth maul the game master decided that the battle had ended and a new initiative roll was required.
thats why he didtn't suffer an attack by darth maul, because his defences were relaxed adn Obi-wan got (pardon the pun) the jump on him.
made sence at the time.
Maybe there's another way of seeing this. Perhaps Obi, seeing Anakin below him about to jump and attack, had a horrible flashback to his fight with Maul. Realizing that there's no defense against a leaping attack from 12 feet down, Obi calls out in fear for his life "Don't do it!"
We all know fear leads to the dark side, so Obi-Wan must've drawn on the dark side for the extra power he needed to defeat Anakin during the unstoppable leap.
How's that work for you?
Obi-Wan? Drawing power from the dark side?
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
That hideous "No!" scream was quoted from Luke Skywalker, from the scene where he learned that Vader was his father.
Entertain the thought, I cannot!
Tony M
"That hideous 'No!' scream was quoted from Luke Skywalker, from the scene where he learned that Vader was his father."
Actually, it's from New Hope. Luke screams it when Obi-Wan dies, which is similar to Obi-Wan screaming it when Qui-Gon dies.
Could I have erred? Me? Am I mistaken?
"BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!"
That hideous beep was quoted from the R2D2, from the scene where Yoda whacks him with a stick.
Tony M
Yoda's piggy-back!
Ah, bless!
I still think that movie is the greatest
Who here thinks that the star wars games are the best and the movies are better the action figures are awesome
I think Obi won because of Anakin's brooding head posture. If Anakin wasn't so self conscious about his harmless lil lazy eye he'd look at people directly, but ever since Yoda called him a dead-eye warrior Anakin kept his brow bone down and tilted his head slightly to peer forward with his burning dominant eye.
Although such mannerisms make this lethally ill tempered Wella Balsam model look cooler when he's trying to be intimidating, they can't possibly assist a 25 foot jump.
Oh, and if you look closely, Obi wolfed down a bowl of nutritious Space Wheaties in an earlier scene. Sithy McBroodypants never stood a chance.
I juts had a question thats been bugging me forever. Now I know that Obi-Wan isn't the most powerful Jedi, but in my mind he is the best. Now in Episode 4 when he fights Darth Vader, he lets himself be beaten right, obviously. But get this, this is my question. Does Darth Vader actually kill him? Because I am positive that if you watch, Vader slashes horizontally at him and hits nothing but air and that Obi-Wan let himself shift into "ghots-mode" (don't kill me for the term I just don't know the right one) and I believe that Darth Vader never killed Obi-Wan but rather Obi-Wan let himself cross-over into the other realm. I'm just wondering what you guys think.
I agree. He just jumped realms voluntarily.
Well, at the end of this last movie Yoda says that Qi Gong reached out from beyond the grave, giving him a few pointers on Jedi immortality. Yoda says he'll teach Obi. This is why at the end of episode 6 Anakin, Yoda, and Obi and are all palling around in the ethereal.
Obi predicts his immortality in A NEW HOPE. Something like, "If you strike me down, Darth, I'll only become more powerful." So he dropped his saber defense to allow his own 'ghost conversion'. He returned as a quivering disembodied voice to tell Luke to use the force and blow up the death star with sensor assistance. I think if A NEW HOPE was shot present day they might actually show Obi gore upon a killing blow.
"Lawd, my shoe!" as he weaves backwards, clutching his dribbling belly. "Oh, that HURTS! What is WRONG with you!"
The real reson anikan got his legs cut off is because darth vader had no legs in the next movie which was already created DAH!
spaeking of star wars battle front 2 came out!
...That leads me to another uneeded change. Han solo shooting in self defense in the remastered star wars in the cantina scene. he had every reason to shoot guido(a close personal friend of anakins as it lamely turns out) he had a gun on him. Now guido gets off a point blank shot and misses then han fires in self defense?
Actually, the bounty hunter in the cantina is Greedo, not young Anakin's friend Guido. There's an edited scene in Episode 1 where young Anakin gets into a fist fight with Greedo who was bullying him.
That said, I agree with you about some of the "uneeded changes" Mr. Lucas did in Episodes 4,5 and 6. Did we really need a musical number by Sy Snootles and the Rebo Band? I absolutely HATE that new part. I'm not too fond of the new Ewok music at the end of Episode 6 either.
On the other hand, I DID like most of the changes though. The new entrance to Mos Eisley and the Dewback sequence are pretty neat. Some of the space scenes in episode 4 look awesome now. I like what they did with the Wampa creature on Hoth, as well as openning up Cloud City to make it less claustrophobic.
That leaves me to wonder what changes Mr. Lucas will make in the re-release of the Star Wars Saga (the 6-pak) in five years... I hope he'll edit some (or all) of Threepios one-timers in the arena battle on Geonosis. God-damn! He should of called him GOLDEN RODney Dangerfield!!!
Ultradan
Here-here. Retouching movies is sort of like retouching a piece of artwork sitting in a museum. Once it's in the public forum it's done. Period. It belongs to the people who have experienced it. It doesn't belong to the artist anymore (even if he still legally owns the piece). It can be re-released in a different form (like the extended LOTR triology) but the artist should never mandate one over the other. Film like art has to live on its own merits and shortcomings, and in some cases god-awful dialogue, poor writing, and shoddy directing.
It ain't like dusting crops boy,
GGG
PS Editing serves a purpose as well. Usually it is used to cut out crap like the Weight Watchers Jabba scene in "A New Hope" and not add more crap like the pointless Boba Fett cameo. I was wondering there for a moment if he was going to turn and wave to the audience. "Hey, look at me I'm in "A New Hope" now!" Of course I understand his voice would sound different now.
Also, I think the original ewok music was more in line with the ending than the dirge they played in the revamped version (at least the last time I saw it - it might be acid jazz or techno now for all I know or care to know).
I have to disagree.
Obi Wan would never have warned Anakin not to attack a foe on higher ground. If anything, Obi Wan would've backed up several feet to give Anakin a place to land (to be cautious and avoid Darth Maul's fate).
Possibly the writer wanted to make Obi Wan seem loving at the last second so he wouldn't seem so cruel when he cut off Anakin's legs...?
Tony M
Ah. I see what you mean. Obi Wan could have pondered that battle with Darth Maul for years, until he created the perfect counter-attack to his own attack. That makes sense. A jedi would probably do that.
In other words...you're right. Obi Wan might conceivably warn Anakin not to attack a foe on higher ground. I admit defeat. I was wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.
However!
Assuming that's true, not only did Obi Wan never teach that counter-move to Anakin, he never told him such a counter-move existed. So Anakin never had a chance in that final scenario. And Obi Wan knew it. He totally knew it.
Which creates a new question: Was Obi Wan's warning to Anakin genuine?
I have to wonder. Right now it seems to me that Obi Wan sensed Anakin wasn't going to leap, so he 'baited' him into leaping by telling him not to!!! Just so he could cut him down.
Eww. I'm feeling nauseated by the thought. Poor Anakin...
Tony M