Please bring back Winning Races


Dragon Magazine General Discussion


I would like to request the return of only thing I've liked about the change over. Not that I in any way dislike Ecologies, but you've only featured humanoids, in fact almost Hags exclusively. What's up with that? It would be refreshing to focus more on Aberations.

If you actually bring it back, I'd like to request 'converting', the Orochi from MtG Kamigawa block, please...

Contributor

Just a few issues ago, the Ecology of the Will O' Wisp appeared. It was quite awesometastic (and I'm not just saying that because the author is my bestest friend, either ;) )

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

The next Ecology is a Behir, and after that we'll do the Kraken.

We'll bring back Winning Races when we get submissions that offer something other than simply more animal heads. Until then... we wait.

--Erik


BrotherDog wrote:

I would like to request the return of only thing I've liked about the change over. Not that I in any way dislike Ecologies, but you've only featured humanoids, in fact almost Hags exclusively. What's up with that? It would be refreshing to focus more on Aberations.

There have been two already this year - the Diaboli (I think that's what they were called) and the Umbragen from Eberron (which I think should count as a "winning races" article). Both of those issues I mentioned probably had an ecology article in them as well.

If I have ANY beef at all about the Ecology articles, it would be the title. I wish they were called "Ecology/Culture," meaning that the articles can detail the Ecology of a creature, or it's Culture (value systems, traditions, social higharchies, religions, etc.), or maybe even both.

In many cases, the articles ALREADY do both, so my complaint is both faint and shadowy.


Erik Mona wrote:

The next Ecology is a Behir, and after that we'll do the Kraken.

We'll bring back Winning Races when we get submissions that offer something other than simply more animal heads. Until then... we wait.

--Erik

And by doing so perpetrate a great disservice to your readership. More than likely you are not even willing to look and see if the race might add something to a given campaign world. I will look again at your writer guidelines and see what I can to make my article more palatable but that will not mean abandoning anthro races. If anything I am of the opinion we need more anthro races in the game. Shifters are nice but they don't do the job as well as the lupin or the tortles. Catfolk are almost an acceptable replacement for the Rakasta. What do you expect any and all us D&D players who also happen to like anthro characters to do? Sit on our hands and wait for something you're never going to do? I want to see the Giff return. You may think it goofy but not everyone does. One of the greatest adventures I ever played in 2nd Ed. was a SpellJammer campaign in which I played a lupin ranger and someone else played a lizardman fighter. There are those that like playing humanoid animals. Give us that oppurtunity, we are the one that buy the games and the magazines along with every one else.


Let's see, as far as I can tell the Winning Races series has featured the following:
2 fully anthro races in the Grippli and the Lupin
1 semi anthro race in the Saurian Shifters
3 non anthro races in the Diaboli, the Cyclopi and the Half-Elementals (this last piece of trash I mention for completeness sake and no other reason)
The Umbragen are not a Winning Races article. I would consider that to be an Eberron article as well as an ad for the upcoming game.

Now I ask you based on the evidence above are we not due for another anthro oriented article in the Winning Races line?


D&D needs more "furries?" Lord, no. Go play Jadeclaw or some crap like that. :(

Anyway, I think it's a terrible idea to saddle Dragon with the responsibility of "having" to deliver articles of a specific theme each and every month. Great material doesn't grow on trees and there's no sense making your customers pay for pointless filler accepted just because it fits a "required" theme when you're sitting on better stuff you could print in its place.

*cough*classacts*cough*

Excuse me.


Who said anything about furries? Being a fan of monster characters, I'm only hoping for reasons to actually start buying the magazine again. (Not that, that would be an only reason) The magazine had reached a very high pinnacle of quality, then suddenly-->

1.) I'm no longer allowed to subscribe due to lack of credit card. This is not my doing it's "Paizo's" policies, unless they learned from such a mistake. I haven't bothered even trying re-subscribing yet, as many of the latest issues with the exception of #330 have been, to put it nicely, "Lame".
2.) A slash in the percentage of useful articles.
3.) Increase in price, combined with a loss of advertising, which would normally help cover costs.
4.) Too many promises not delivered...

...if you dislike the best collumn since the restructure, Yamo. Then pardon me!

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

FenrysStar wrote:


Shifters are nice but they don't do the job as well as the lupin or the tortles. Catfolk are almost an acceptable replacement for the Rakasta. What do you expect any and all us D&D players who also happen to like anthro characters to do?

I expect you to play the lupin or the tortle, which as you point out we _have_ published, and beyond that I would suggest checking out Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved, which has a couple of excellent "furry" races, including the sibbeccai (a sort of jakal-man) and a litorian (a cat-man).

Do we really need zebra people and bear people and ostrich people? At some point isn't it more useful to go in a different direction?

FenrysStar wrote:


I want to see the Giff return. You may think it goofy but not everyone does.

First off, it _is_ goofy. Giff are hippo-guys with an obsession for medals and gunpowder. They are meant to be silly. That is part of their charm.

And honestly, I'd probably be open to a well written giff winning race, and I mean to publish giff as a monster some time in the next year, probably in the "Campaign Classics" issue. I've got nothing against them, despite what a few hyperventilating Spelljammer fans might want to read into an old editorial.

FenrysStar wrote:


There are those that like playing humanoid animals. Give us that oppurtunity, we are the one that buy the games and the magazines along with every one else.

Sure, and we're glad to have you. But at this rate we've published more animal people than any other type of Winning Race. If we don't mix it up a little more, everyone but the hard-core animal-people lovers are bound to get bored.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon


Erik Mona wrote:

The next Ecology is a Behir, and after that we'll do the Kraken.

We'll bring back Winning Races when we get submissions that offer something other than simply more animal heads. Until then... we wait.

--Erik

Hmm... Has anybody been *submitting* Winning Races articles as of late?


I have a non-anthro race that's been floating around in my head for a while. I considered querying it, but I didn't see the article in the writer's guidelines. I, for one, would like to see some new races.


Winning Races is definately a cool article series! My favourite (and I dunno if it was really a Winning Races article) was a feature by Dean Possio in Dragon 317, Xenophilia. That was really cool! It had four races that were really original and could be used in almost any setting!

The one thing that I don't like about races is Level Adjustments. I like to start off a campaign at level one and I prefer that the players are all on equal terms. But, that's just me.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

John Crovis wrote:


Hmm... Has anybody been *submitting* Winning Races articles as of late?

I pitched one a few weeks ago as part of a bunch of other article ideas. It was for a new race rather then one already found in one of the existing books (at least I hope so :) ) so I'm interested to see if it gets any nibbles.


I for one am glad that Winning Races has been put down for now.

For what little it's worth, I considered almost none of the races in those articles to be more useful than those in in the Xenophilia article (317). The only one I may have had any immidate use for were the Diaboli. The rest were kind of boring, or just plain uninspired, and yes, the last thing we need is MORE animal-heads.

Until they pick up some races that are worth using (such as LA +0 Fae! Horray for Xenophilia!), it's probably best that Winning Races stays gone until it finds its feet. I like the concept of new PC races, but they should be like any new material: Offered in small doses and catchy.

Winning Races was generally neither.


John Crovis wrote:
Hmm... Has anybody been *submitting* Winning Races articles as of late?

there are so many other articles that relate to monsters and such, that i haven't even gotten around to that yet...


To be honest, I never liked the winning races articles. I much prefer the ecologies. I've always liked articles that fleshed out and contributed more to what is already available for use (and I really liked the Slayer's Guides by Mongoose until they changed the formats to including brand new critters). What I miss most that's disappeared is the Under Command articles... I thought the miniatures line was a success and deserved some published support...


i remember an unconverted 1HD fey race from AD&D, but i can't think of it off the top of my head... i was considering sending that in for Winning Races.

Dark Archive Contributor

John Crovis wrote:
Hmm... Has anybody been *submitting* Winning Races articles as of late?

There haven't been any in the last few "let's pick features" meetings, which means we either haven't received any or Jason has nixed them himself. It sounds like we might see one from Hal in the next "let's pick features" meeting, however.


Mike McArtor wrote:
John Crovis wrote:
Hmm... Has anybody been *submitting* Winning Races articles as of late?
There haven't been any in the last few "let's pick features" meetings, which means we either haven't received any or Jason has nixed them himself. It sounds like we might see one from Hal in the next "let's pick features" meeting, however.

Well, this is good news! I've sent three in a query fairly recently... And if it isn't one of my races, then at least I can look forward to another Winning Races article. :)


i'll see if i can dredge up my extensive race of kukri wielding sand dwellers and submit it. though the name might be changed:

(winning races: tarka'al'kzat? come on!)

and i've been totally updating my old monstrous compeduim annual #1


Mike,

You've already *paid for* a Winning Races that's never run. For a LA +0 Fey. Might save a bit of bread to, well, run it. ;)


Think about my choice for a name and the current icon I have up now. Just because I have the furry race I prefer to play does not mean I can sit back and let other races go by the wayside. I have an article already about integrating furries into a general campaign that show cases several new races. If you rally wanted to get some of the furry maniacs a bone, consider this a preview of the article I have to offer. I am now going to present the names of the races and for those that wish to know what animal type they represent and you can judge for yourself if you would like to look this article over which has the premise of these races once being lycnathropes (Medieval once fretted over all sorts of beasties being able to take human form, like the dreaded werepig, werewolves just got top billing):

Ursyn (Bear)
Reynard (Fox)
Vern (Wolverine/Badger)
Kuna (Raccoon)
Lop (Rabbit)(and or those who think this will be a clone of a certain well known WB character I did my best to stay away but some things ultimately cannot be helped although the size will surprise you)
Mynx(Weasels and related Mustelids)
Tatu (armadillo)
Yawarri (opossum)
Puzzola (skunks)
Kazbah (camel)

Now as for the zebras, sounds like people are forgetting the Equiceph of the Miniatures Handbook. BTW I have a monster class for the Equiceph if you're interested.

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