All,
Just a notion that's been running through my head lately, after recently converting over from 2nd Edition. I'd like to know how everyone feels about it:
Are we pricing younger gamers out of the hobby?
$32.95. $27.95. $22.00. These are the prices that stare at me from the backs of the books I'm contemplating buying. I have a relatively good, stable job, so for me, the anguish over buying sourcebooks isn't too great. But what about younger gamers (and when I mean younger, I mean anywhere from 12-24 years old)? Most of the demographic I'm talking about don't have high-paying jobs. In today's economy, as bad as it is, are we pricing a generation out of the hobby entirely?
I realize that with smaller companies making higher-quality products, prices will jump. I also realize that these prices aren't too far off what you'd pay for a normal fiction hardcover nowadays. But I still think the point is salient. Is it time to reconsider what our hobby is costing its enthusiasts?
Thanks,
Antithesis
All,Just a notion that's been running through my head lately, after recently converting over from 2nd Edition. I'd like to know how everyone feels about it:
Are we pricing younger gamers out of the hobby?
$32.95. $27.95. $22.00. These are the prices that stare at me from the backs of the books I'm contemplating buying. I have a relatively good, stable job, so for me, the anguish over buying sourcebooks isn't too great. But what about younger gamers (and when I mean younger, I mean anywhere from 12-24 years old)? Most of the demographic I'm talking about don't have high-paying jobs. In today's economy, as bad as it is, are we pricing a generation out of the hobby entirely?
I realize that with smaller companies making higher-quality products, prices will jump. I also realize that these prices aren't too far off what you'd pay for a normal fiction hardcover nowadays. But I still think the point is salient. Is it time to reconsider what our hobby is costing its enthusiasts?
Thanks,
Antithesis
I doubt there is a solution to the problem within the present economic system for books.
I own a bookstore. So lets look at my prices. First off I'm in Canada so prices are in Canadian Dollars but the same system would apply in the States.
OK at the game store a book like the Players handbook goes for about $40 Canadian. I called up Wizards of the Coast and got a list of their Canadian Distributers. Called the one closest to me up and asked what price my store would pay to pick up this text. The Distributer sells for $23 Canadian. So the hobby store must have been taking in and around a 50% margin plus their passing along their shipping costs. Thats not out of this world unreasonable though its a little high in terms of margins. Still hobby stores are problem business'. Not enough customers and rent and wages on the store have to be paid or your out of business. 50% margin is routine on toys and 46% is pretty standard on paper back novels so maybe thier taking this as guidline. Normally hardcovers are down around 20% - at leat for the text books I sell...that said I sell $200 dollar texts to professionals so maybe its more reasonable that I just get 20% on the sale since that translates into a pretty nice $40 bucks.
Any way we got $23 from the distributer...from here on in I'm on conjecture since I own a books store not a distribution centre. That said these distributers got to have a cut...their in business to make money after all. Lets Figure that their taking say $5 plus recouping their shipping costs. I figure that puts Wizards of the Coast down to about $15 per book sold. Figure that they have to pay wages and pay for all the artwork on these books as well as pay printing fee's etc. My bet is that this is probably at least 80% of the cost on the book. In reality WoTC probably gets only a buck or two in profit from the sale of each book. I can't see where they can cut much.
The reality is most novels etc. are not worth more then 50 cents or so per novel for the publisher. Many in fact are major money loosers. you make money in this industry when you end up like Scholarly Books. A bit player in the book market which took a chance and bought up the American rights from Britian for a book that was about to come out called Harry Potter...and hit the jackpot when Harry Potter became a phenomina. 50 cents per book is a lot of money when your doing a 14 million book print run.
There where good reasons why TSR was - at the height of 2nd Edition - 30 million in debt and heading for bankruptcy in a hurry. Its yet to be seen wheather WoTC will manage to surviev in this brutal business. Take my advice - don't invest all tour life savings in their stock. This is a harsh business with an insane business model. If you want to make money in publishing I think Harliquen Romances are probably a way better bet from the perspective of making a profit.
Are we pricing younger gamers out of the hobby?
$32.95. $27.95. $22.00. These are the prices that stare at me from the backs of the books I'm contemplating buying. I have a relatively good, stable job, so for me, the anguish over buying sourcebooks isn't too great. But what about younger gamers (and when I mean younger, I mean anywhere from 12-24 years old)? Most of the demographic I'm talking about don't have high-paying jobs. In today's economy, as bad as it is, are we pricing a generation out of the hobby entirely?
Well, I remember spenidng 15 bucks of my own money to byt the 1st edition DMG back when I was in 4th grade. That seemed a lot back then, as well.
Considering the miles you get out of a core rulebook, I think it's very reasonalbe. After all, if you wanna be like Tiger Woods, how much are golf clubs? A pair of good basketball shoes? How about a cell phone?
Nah, the kids might have tto priotitize, but I think they'll get along just fine.
Well, I remember spenidng 15 bucks of my own money to byt the 1st edition DMG back when I was in 4th grade. That seemed a lot back then, as well.Considering the miles you get out of a core rulebook, I think it's very reasonalbe. After all, if you wanna be like Tiger Woods, how much are golf clubs? A pair of good basketball shoes? How about a cell phone?
Nah, the kids might have tto priotitize, but I think they'll get along just fine.
It was a lot for me too. And I remember the books climbing to about $20 a piece over the course of my teenage years.
That said... a resourceful teen has many options... buying the book used, either from a gaming store that sells used gaming materials or off of ebay. Forming a gaming group and pooling money to get the books. Dedicated gamers will find a way. My brother owns a gaming store and parents will often ask him which books are appropriate... they seem more concerned about the price of miniatures than the price of the books. I think it shocks us, as long term gamers, more because we remember what they used to cost. I know kids who get $10 a week allowance... which equates to being able to buy one of the books in three weeks. It took me six at $2 a week when they were only $12.
- Ashavan
Perhaps D&D is just too sprawling and it's the three book model that's broken? As a young gamer, the first version of D&D I owned was the fantastic D&D Rules Cyclopedia, which was a complete game, kind of like a PHB, DMG and MM all rolled into one. I still don't fell like it lacked for anything. It even had a lot of stuff that isn't in the core rulebooks now, like mass-combat, stronghold rules, rule for players becoming gods and an overview of the Mystara setting for new players looking for a pre-made campaign world. It was insane what a huge value this book was.
Maybe D&D's rules should be simplified so that the complete game can be printed and sold between one set of covers again, which would lower the monetary investment for a new player down to 1/3 of what it is now.
I also believe that trimming down the rules would be better for bringing younger gamers into the fold and for inticing back older ones who have reached a phase in thier gaming career where less is more rules-wise. That's another issue, though.
Maybe D&D's rules should be simplified so that the complete game can be printed and sold between one set of covers again, which would lower the monetary investment for a new player down to 1/3 of what it is now.I also believe that trimming down the rules would be better for bringing younger gamers into the fold and for inticing back older ones who have reached a phase in thier gaming career where less is more rules-wise. That's another issue, though.
What a great idea! I think 3.5 would really beneift from a basic rules set. For new gamers, it can be daunting when you see all the source material out there. . . we should post this stuff over on the Wizards boards and see what they think about it.
Did Wizards have something similar to a basic rules boxed set a few years back? I can't remember. . .
Anyway, I agree, Yamo.
Did Wizards have something similar to a basic rules boxed set a few years back? I can't remember. . .
Anyway, I agree, Yamo.
Yes, I recently bought the Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set. It comes with a very paired down set of rules which will get you through the first 2 levels. The rules are lighter, which can actually speed things up. However, the lists of spells / feats are minimal, and there is no level advancement info after 2nd level.
There is a short adventure included, which could have been a lot better. It's basically just a hack & smash walk through. After having not D&D for 20 years, I popped this out of the box and playtested it with my girlfriend (who had never played). She asked if this was what it was going to be like playing, because she had expected more of a plot or something. Basically you start off outside the door of a dungeon, walk in, and get in a fight with kobolds. There's very little plot advancement at all, and it feels like a randomly generated dungeon.
Ignoring the quality of the adventure, the rules are decent, there are some decent quickstart instructions, and you can start playing with the 4 pre-generated characters in 15 minutes or so.
Value-wise, the box-set is only 25 bucks, and comes with a decently useable set of rules, set of dice and 16 D&D Miniatures -- 4 characters and 12 monsters. A great deal for getting into the game.
I think the set falls short with the rules. How much more could it cost to add a few more levels of advancement and a few more spells & magic items? If you actually play through 4th or 5th level, you're almost definitely going to go out and try and buy the core rulebooks. Also, a better adventure would improve the experience.
Anyway, there is something along the lines of what you're talking about already out there.
I think they should sell PDFs of the books right off their own website, for $10 american. That may be detrimental for the bookstores, but with clever strategic marketing techniques, it could be done quite easily. For instance, there is a PDF for the core rules and the complete line, but WotC publishes a bi-monthly paerback collection of all the prestige classes, feats, and supplemental rules that have appeared on the pages of Dragon.
There could also be a similarly priced collection of modules that are released on a regular basis.
WotC seems to spend so much time hemming and hawing over how cool their latest line of prducts, that they rarely actually release something that justifies it's price.
PDFs and paper backs for the people with little money, and put out the hardcover behomoths for us hardcore gamers.
"Yes, I recently bought the Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set. It comes with a very paired down set of rules..."
See, I'm talking about something totally different: Not a pared-down introduction to more complex rules, but rather simplifying the whole game so that it fits in one book, again based on the example of the D&D Rules Cyclopedia. This would involve almost completely re-imagining and re-writing D&D as it's published today, however, into something that would probably resemble the Castles & Crusades system more than WotC's D&D.
If we're talking about saving newbies money, a cheesy introductory set that only contains a small fraction of the rules is no solution. It actually exacerbates the problem, because you're then asking the newbie to but that, THEN the full rules at the normal cost. Four products instead of three.
One of the coolest thing about D&D 3.0 and 3.5 is... it's free!
Don't want to pay for the books? Even the three core books? No problem.
http://d20srd.org/
Unless we're just looking for things to complain about. In which case...
What the world needs is more giant robots! I want giant robots that mow my lawn and babysit my kids when I want to go out with my wife. And they should be free!
Cheers, : )
- rob
Perhaps D&D is just too sprawling and it's the three book model that's broken? As a young gamer, the first version of D&D I owned was the fantastic D&D Rules Cyclopedia, which was a complete game, kind of like a PHB, DMG and MM all rolled into one.
This is the route that Arcana Evolved (http://paizo.com/store/brand/d20System/whiteWolfPublishing/v5748btpy7c73) took. The book is awesome. Monte Cook should be given the keys to the kingdom. He is the *man*!
One of the coolest thing about D&D 3.0 and 3.5 is... it's free!
Don't want to pay for the books? Even the three core books? No problem.
http://d20srd.org/- rob
That is so beautiful.
Thank you.
I've heard AE is really good.
"One of the coolest thing about D&D 3.0 and 3.5 is... it's free!"
Realistically, I think most people that play are going to feel that they need those texts present at the gaming table, and while the files are free, printing and binding them decently is a signicant cost.
One of the coolest thing about D&D 3.0 and 3.5 is... it's free!
Don't want to pay for the books? Even the three core books? No problem.
http://d20srd.org/Unless we're just looking for things to complain about. In which case...
What the world needs is more giant robots! I want giant robots that mow my lawn and babysit my kids when I want to go out with my wife. And they should be free!Cheers, : )
- rob
Except that there is no real mention of experience points in the SRD that I could find. Its free - but you can't gain levels.
Anyway it did not take that long from my looking over the SRD to decide that I really needed the books.
Anyone remember what the old classic White Plume Mountain cost? I'm sure it was at least $5. It was only 8 pages.
I'll admit that for hard backs, I usually get them off Ebay, or from Amazon with the 30% off that they often offer.
I also no longer buy everything. I have found a couple of companies that I like, and I buy their stuff. As for the hardback Splat books. I usually hold off on buying them unless I find that I need them for a game. I DM almost exclusively, so i do buy a lot of stuff.
Here is a list of my pre 3ed library:
CHAINMAIL
Supplement I, Greyhawk
Supplement II, Blackmoor
Supplement IV, Gods, Demi-Gods and Heroes
Underworld & Wilderness Adventures
HARD BACKS
1st ed. Players Handbook /hb/ (x2)
1st ed. Dungeon Masters Guide /hb/ (x2)
Monster Manual /hb/ (x2)
Monster Manual II /hb/
Fiend Folio /hb/
Manual of the Planes /hb/
Monstrous Compendium
• Greyhawk Appendix
• Forgotten Realms Appendix
• Kara-Tur Appendix
• Outer Planes Appendex
Oriental Adventures /hb/
Unearthed Arcana /hb/
Wilderness Survival Guide /hb/
Dungeoneer’s Survival Guide /hb/
Deities and Demigods W/ Cluthu & Elric /hb/
Deities and Demigods W/O Cluthu & Elric /hb/
2nd ed. Players Handbook /hb/
2nd ed. Dungeon Masters Guide /hb/
Tome of Magic /hb/
*Greyhawk Adventures /hb/
*DragonLance Adventures /hb/
*Forgotten Realms Adventures /hb/
Encyclopedia Magica Vol 1
Encyclopedia Magica Vol 2
Encyclopedia Magica Vol 3
Encyclopedia Magica Vol 4/Index
* = listed elsewhere on this list as well
Permanent Character Folder and Adventure Records
MODULES
A1-4 , Scourge of the Slave Lords
A1, Slave Pits of the Undercity + 1 missing cover
A2, Secret of the Slaver’s Stockade + 1 missing cover
A3, Assault on the Aerie of the Slave Lords (x2)
A4, Dungeon of the Slave Lords(x3)
2nd ed. Slavers (Return of the Slave Lords)
AC1, Shady Dragon Inn
AC2, Combat Shield (x3)/Treasure of the Hideous One (x2)
AC3, Dragon Tiles/The Kidnapping of Princess Arelina (missing module)
AC4, The Book of Marvelous Magic
AC(3)5, Dragon Tiles II/The Revenge of Rusak
AC7, Master Player Screen/The Spindle
AC9, Creature Catalogue
AC10, Bestiary of Dragons and Giants
AC11, The Book of Wondrous Inventions
B1-9, In Search of Adventure
B1, In Search of the Unknown - - ‘79&’83 + 1 missing cover
B2, Keep on the Border Lands (3 copies in box sets)
2nd ed. Return to The Keep on the Borderlands
B3, Palace of the Silver Princess & Recalled Version
B4, The Lost City
B5, Horror on the Hill
B6, The Veiled Society (x2)
B7, Rahasia
B8, Journey to the Rock
B9, Castle Caldwell and Beyond
B10, Night’s Dark Terror
B11, King’s Festival
B12, Queen’s Harvest
B-Solo Ghost of Lion Castle
C1, Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan ‘81
C2, The Ghost Tower of Inverness
C3, The Lost Island of Castanamir
C4, To Find a King
C5, The Bane of Llewellyn
C6, The Official RPGA Tournament Book
CB1, Conan Unchained
CB2, Conan, Against the Darkness
CN1, Conan: The Buccaneer
CN2, Conan: The Mercenary
CN3, Conan: The Triumphant
CM1, Test of the Warlords
CM2, Death’s Ride
CM3, Sabre River
CM4, Earthshaker
CM5, Mystery of the Snow Pearls - - Magic Viewer
CM6, Where Chaos Reigns
CM7, The Tree of Life
CM8, The Endless Stair
CM9, Legacy of Blood
D1, Descent into the Depths of the Earth ‘78
D2, Shrine of the Kuo-Toa ‘78
D1-2, Descent into the Depths of the Earth
D3, Vault of the Drow ’78 & ’80
DA1, Adventures in Blackmoor
DA2, Temple of the Frog
DA3, City of the Gods
DA4, The Duchy of Tenh
DDA1, Arena of Thyatis
DDA2, Legions of Thyatis
DDA3, Eye of Traldar
DDA4, The Dymark Dread
DQ1, The Shattered Statue
ENTRY1, Quest for the Silver Sword
ENTRY2, Assault on Raven’s Ruin
ENTRY3, Thunder Rift
ENTRY7, Rage of the Rankasta
G1, Steading of the Hill Giant Chief ’78
G2, The Glacial Rift of the Frost Giant Jarl ‘78
G3, Hall of the Fire Giant King ‘78
G1-3, Against the Giants
2nd ed. Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff
2nd ed. GA1, The Murky Deep
2nd ed. GA2, Swamplight
2nd ed. GA3, Tales of Enchantment
H2, The Mines of Bloodstone (x2)
H3, The Bloodstone Wars (x2)
H4, The Throne of Bloodstone (x2)
HHQ1, Fighter’s Challenge
HHQ2, Wizard’s Challenge
HHQ4, Cleric’s Challenge
HHQ5, Fighter’s Challenge II
HHQ6, Wizard’s Challenge II
HHQ7, Thief’s Challenge II
HHQ8, Cleric’s Challenge II
HWA3, Nightstorm (Hollow World)
HWR1, Sons of Azca (Hollow World)
HWQ1, The Milenian Scepter (Hollow World)
I1, Dwellers of the Forbidden City
I2, Tomb of the Lizard King
I3-5 Desert of Desolation (x2)
I3, Pharaoh
I4, Oaisi of the White Palm
I5, Lost Tomb of Martek
I6, Ravenloft
2nd ed. 25th Anniversary Ravenloft
I7, Baltron’s Beacon
I8, Ravager of Time
I9, Day of Al’Akbar
I10, Ravenloft II, Gryphon Hill
I11, Needle
I12, Egg of the Phoenix (R1-4 series super module)
I13, Adventure Pack, Vol I
I14, Swords of the Iron Legion
IM1, The Immortal Storm
IM2, The Wrath of Olympus
IM3, The Best of Intentions
L1, The Secret of Bone Hill
L2, The Assassins Knot
L3, Deep Dwarven Delve
M1 Solo, Blizard Pass
M2 Solo, Maze of the Riddling Minotaurs - - Magic Pen
M1, Into the Maelstorm (x3)
M2, Vengeance of Alphaks
M3, Twilight Calling
M4, Five Coins for a Kingdom
MV1, Midnight on Dagger Alley - - Magic Viewer (x2)
N1, Against the Cult of the Reptile God
N2, The Forest Oracle
N3, Destiny of Kings
N4, Treasure Hunt
N5, Under Illefarn
O1, The Gem and The Staff
O2, Blade of Vengeance
OA1, Sword of the Daimyo
OA2, Seven Swords
OA3, Ochimo: The Spirit Warrior
OA4, Blood of the Yakuza
OA5, Mad Monkey Vs. The Dragon’s Claw
OA6, Ronin Challenge
OA7, Test of the Samurai
Q1, Queen of the Demon Web Pits
REF1, Dungeon Master’s Screen/Terrible Trouble at Tragidore
REF3, The Book of Lairs I
REF4, The Book of Lairs II
REF5, Lords of Darkness
REF6, Rogues Gallery
2nd ed. Rogues Gallery
RPGA2, The Black Opal Eye
RPGA4, The Elixir of Life
S1, Tomb of Horrors ‘81 ‘78
Return to the Tomb of Horrors (Box set)
S2, White Plume Mountain ’81
Return to White Plume Mountain
S3, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks ’81
S4, The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth
S5, The Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga
S6, Labyrinth of Madness
T1, The village of Hommlet ’78 & ’81
T1-4 The Temple of Elemental Evil (x2)
U1, The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh
U2, Danger at Dunwater (x2)
U3, The Final Enemy
UK1, Beyond the Crystal Cave
UK2, The Sentinel
UK3, The Gauntlet
UK4, When a Star Falls
UK5, Eye of the Serpent
UK6, All that Glitters…
UK7, Dark Clouds Gathering
X1, Isle of Dread (+1 in box set)
X2, Castle Amber
X3, Curse of Xanathon
X4, Master of the Desert Nomads
X5, Temple of Death
X6, Quagmire
X7, War Rafts of Kron
X8, Drums on Fire Mountain
X9, The Savage Coast (pages 13-20 are copies)
X10, Red Arrow, Black Shield
X11, Saga of the Shadow Lord
X13, Crown of Ancient Glory
XL1, Quest for the Heartstone
XSolo 1, Lathan’s Gold
XSolo 2, Thunderdelve Mountain
GREYHAWK
*Greyhawk Adventures /hb/
City of Greyhawk (Box set book) Greyhawk: Gem of Flanaess
City of Greyhawk (Box set book) Greyhawk: Folk, Feuds, and Factions
World of Greyhawk Folio
EX1, Dungeonland
EX2, Land Beyond the Magic Mirror
WG4, The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun
WG5, Mordenkainen’s Fantastic Adventure
WG6, Isle of the Ape
WG8, Fate of Istus
WG9, Gargoyle
WG10, Child’s Play
WG11, Puppets
WG12, Vale of the Mage
WGA1, Falcon’s Revenge
WGA2, Falconmaster
WGA4, Vecna Lives
WGS1, Five Shall Become One
WGS2, Howl from the North
WGR1, Greyhawk Ruins
WGR2, Treasures of Greyhawk
WRG3, Rary the Traitor
WGR4, The Marklands
WGR5, Iuz the Evil
WGR6, City of Skulls
Return of the Eight
The Star Cairns
The Crypt of Lazandered the Mad
The Doomgrinder
FORGOTTEN REALMS
*Forgotten Realms Adventures /hb/
Running the Realms
Faiths and Avatars
PG2, Player’s Guide to the Forgotten Realms
FR6, Dreams of the Red Wizards
FR7, Hall of Heroes
FR8, Cities of Mystery: (3D buildings) (x2)
FR9, Bloodstone Lands
FR11 Dwarves Deep
FR13, Anauroch
FRE1, Shadowdale
FRE2, Tantras
FRE3, Waterdeep
FRQ1, Haunted Halls of Evening Star
FRQ2, Hoards of Dragonspear
FRQ3, Doom of Daggerdale
Pages from the Mages
Giantcraft
The Ruins of Adventure
Curse of the Azure Bonds
FOR2, The Drow of the Underdark
Drizzt’s Guide to the Underdark
Skullport
Hellgate Keep
The Dungeon of Death
Duty and Deity
Four from Cormyr
Calimport
Castle Spulzeer
Cormanthyr
Cult of the Dragon
Fall of Myth Drannor
Gold and Glory
Lands of Intrigue
Vilhon Reach
Netheril
City of Raven’s Bluff
Villian’s Lorebook
Undermountain: Maddgoth’s Castle
Undermountain: Stardock
Undermountain: The Lost Level
1. The Sword of the Dales
2. The Secret of Spiderhaunt
3. The Return of Randal Morn
Marco Volo I, Departure
Marco Volo II, Journey
Marco Volo III, Arrival
Volo’s: All Things Magical
Volo’s guide to the Dalelands
Volo’s Guide to the North
Volo’s Guifde to Cormyr
Elminster’s Ecologies 1: The Battle of Bones
Elminster’s Ecologies 2: The High Moor and The Serpent Hills The Mighty Fallen
The Savage Frontier
*Kara-Tur box set
*The North box set
*The Horde box set
*Maztica box set
Maztica: City of Gold
FMA1, Maztica: Fires of Zatal
FMA2, Maztica: Endless Armies
Elves of Evermeet
Wizards and Rogues of the Realms
Al Qadim:Caravans
Al Qadim: Corsairs of the Great Sea
DRAGONLANCE
*DragonLance Adventures /hb/
DL1, Dragons of Despair (x2)
DL2, Dragons of Flame
DL3, Dragons of Hope
DL4, Dragons of Desolation
DL5, Dragons of Mystery
DL6, Dragons of Ice
DL7, Dragons of Light
DL8, Dragons of War
DL9, Dragons of Deceit
DL10, Dragons of Dreams
DL12, Dragons of Faith
DL13, Dragons of Truth
DL14, Dragons of Triumph
DragonLance Classics I
DragonLance Classics II
DragonLance Classics III
DL16, The World of Krynn (missing maps)
DLR2, Dragon Magic
DLR3, Taladas: The Minotaurs
DLE2, Unsung Heroes
DLS1, New Beginnings
DLS2, Tree Lords (x2)
DLS3, Oak Lords (x2)
DLS4, Wild Elves
DLQ1 Knight’s Sword
DLQ2, Flint’s Axe (x2)
MYSTARA
Poor Wizard’s Almanac
Poor Wizard’s Almanac II
Poor Wizard’s Almanac III
GAZ1, The Grand Duchy of Karameikos
GAZ2, Emirates of Ylaruam
GAZ3, Principalities of Glantri
GAZ4, Kingdom of Ierendi (x2)
GAZ7, The Northern Reaches
GAZ10, The Orcs of Thar
GAZ11, The Repubilc of Darokin
GAZ12, The Golden Khan of Ethengar
GAZ13, The Shadow Elves
GAZ14, Atruaghin Clans
*Wrath of the Immortals (box set)
*Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure (CD box set)
JUDGES GUILD
The First Fantasy Campaign (Blackmoor)(x5)
Portals of Torsh
Operation Ogre
The Thieves of Fortress Badabaskor
Under the Storm Giant’s Castle
City State of the Invincible Overlord
City State of the Invincible Overlord: Betrayal at Bogwater
City State of the Invincible Overlord: Deception at Dasa
City State of the Invincible Overlord: Derric’s Deep
LANKHMAR
Lankhmar: City of Adventure rule book
CA1, Swords of the Undercity
CA2, Swords of Deceit
LNA1, Thieves of Lankhmar
LNR1, Wonders of Lankhmar
LNR2, Tales of Lankhmar
LNQ1, Slayers of Lankhmar
GENERAL
Monster and Treasure assortment levels 1-9
Arms &Equipment Guide
PHBR5, Psionists Handbook
Complete Gladiators Handbook (DS)
PHBR6, Complete book of Dwarves
PHBR8, Complete book of Elves
PHBR9, Complete book of Gnomes and Halflings
HR1, Vikings Source Book
HR2, Charlemagn’s Source Book
HR3, Celtic Source Book
HR7, The Crusades Source Book
Geomorphs One to Three, Dungeons, Caves and Caverns
CR1, Wizard Spell Cards
CR2, Deck of Priest Cards (missing some 1-3 spells)
CR3, Deck of Magic Items (x2)
CR5, Deck of Encounters II
Factory Card Sets - - ’91, ’92, ’93 and 1-165 of ’93
Forest of Doom (DRAGON)
Citadel by the Sea (DRAGON)
Terrible Trouble at Tragidor (DM screen)
GR1, Strongholds (3-D castle/town)
GR2, Dungeons of Mystery (3-D dungeon)
GR3, Treasure Maps
Castle Sites
Treasure Tales
Dungeon Master’s Design Kit
Dungeon Design Kit
Dungeon Master’s Adventure Log
Encyclopedia of Magic Vol I
Encyclopedia of Magic Vol II
Battle System Rules
Battle System: Skirmishers
The Goblin’s Lair /box game/
The Dragon’s Den /box game/
Mertwig’s Maze (gamefolio)
1 on 1: Challenge of Druid’s Grove
General modules
Jakandar: Island of War
Jakandar: Isle of Destiny
Jakandar: Land of Legend
Shattered Circle
The Gates of Firestorm Peak
Axe of the Dwarvish Lords
The Silver Key
Paladin in Hell (b/w)
Temple, Tower and Tomb (
Wand of Archeal (RPGA)
Kidnapped (RPGA)
The Lost Shrine of Bundushatur (RPGA)
Eye of Pain
Eye of Doom
Eye to Eye
Midnight Madness
Reverse Dungeon
BOX SETS
Battle Systems
Menzoberranzan (FR)
Rod of Seven Parts
Night Below
Under Mountain (FR)
Under Mountain II, The Deep Levels (FR)
Myth Drannor (FR)
Forgotten Realms Setting
City Systems (FR)
Ravenloft Setting
Basic Set - - blue ’78, pink ’81, and red ’83 (x2)
Expert Set - - blue ’81
Set 3: Companion Rules - - blue
Time of Dragons (DL)
Mark of Amber (CD + game, sequel to X2) (M)
Night of the Vampire (CD + game) (M)
Hail the Heroes (CD +game)(M)
Gazetter: Dawn of Emperors (M)
Greyhawk WARS (x2, 1 missing book)
Castle 3-D (x2)
Hollow World (M)
*Wrath of the Immortals (M)
*Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure (CD + game) (M)
First Quest (CD + game)
*Kara-Tur box set(FR)
*The North (FR)
*The Horde (FR)
*Maztica (FR)
DARK SUN
Everything but the following.
Monsterous Compendium: Dark Sun appendix II
And DINGEON Back to issue #1.
The scarry thing... I have even more 3 and 3.5 stuff...
ASEO out
Elminster’s Ecologies 2: The High Moor and The Serpent Hills The Mighty Fallen
Here I think you have mixed two headings into one.
Presumably Elminster’s Ecologies 2: The High Moor and The Serpent Hills with the module How the Mighty Have Fallen.
Interesting list. There are some real gems in that list - but its pretty amazing the amount of crap to be found as well.
Actually thats one of the things that generally brings me back to Dungeon. Certianly not every module in Dungeon is completely inspired but the editing and review process seems to eliminate some dogs that manage to slip through in the more traditional module format. Also while I sometimes think specific Dungeon modules are lousy or boring to read or play its rare that all the modules in the magazine are a bust. With a module if its a bust your just left feeling unhappy. Its not like you can skip forward and check out the next adventure to see if you like it more.
Here is a list of my pre 3ed library:
Wow. What a great library.
Can I come over to your house and play? That is a great list. Unfortunately, I've lost a portion of my 1st edition stuff, and there's alot I never took good care of (I was a kid), so my library starts around the time I became responsible for my stuff - around high school (1990 on).
What I do have left is pathetically tattered and torn, sitting in a bunch of crates in my closet.
...I've lost a portion of my 1st edition stuff, and there's alot I never took good care of (I was a kid)
Here is a list of my pre 3ed library:
Argh...Yeah - until we are 25 at least we should not be allowed to own books of any value...
I have a Deities & Demi-Gods with teh Cuthulu & Newhon Mythos that would normally be worth more then I bought it for except that I stuck it on a radiator one winter and never got around to taking it off...its now brutally warped. Totyally stupid...I new this book was unique 'like a rare comic' - its just pure stupidity and negligence of youth that led me to ruin the book.
Wow. What a great library.
Can I come over to your house and play?
Any time you are in the Oklahoma City area, just let me know.
I'll admit that I didn't buy all my stuff new and several of the local used book stores have my phone number should anyone drop a load of D&D stuff on them.
My 3ed - 3.5 library is still growing, much to my wife's dismay. "Don't you own everything yet?" she asks.
Hardback and source books
Player’s Handbook /hb/
Dungeon Master’s Guide /hb/
Monster Manual /hb/
3.5 Player’s Handbook /hb/
3.5 Dungeon Master’s Guide /hb/
3.5 Monster Manual /hb/
Monster Manual II /hb/
Fiend Folio /hb/
Psionists Handbook /hb/
Manual of the Planes /hb/
Oriental Adventures /hb/
Magic of Rokugan (AEG) /sb/
Creatures of Rokugan (AEG /sb/
Deities & Demigods
Book of Challenges
Arms and Equipment Guide /hb/
Draconomocon /hb/
Complete Warrior/hb/
Libris Mortis/hb/
Sword and Fist
Defenders of the Faith
Tome and Blood
Song and Silence
Masters of the Wild
Enemies and Allies
Creature Collection (Sword & Sorcery) /hb/
Creature Collection II (Sword & Sorcery) /hb/
Tome of Horrors (Necromancer Games) /hb/
Relics & Rituals (Sword & Sorcery) /hb/
Relics & Rituals II (Sword & Sorcery) /hb/
Traps and Treachery (Fantasy Flight) /hb/
Spells & Spellcraft(Fantasy Flight) /hb/
*Scarred Lands Campaign Setting: Ghelspad (Sword & Sorcery) /hb/
*Kingdoms of Kalamar (Kenzer & Co.)/hb/
*Midnight Setting (Fantasy Flight) /hb/
*City of Freeport(Green Ronin) /hb/
*The Lost City of Barakus (1-5) (Necromancer Games)/hb/:
Forgotten Realms
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3ed /hb/
Unapproachable East (FR) /hb/
Underdark (FR)/hb/
The Serpent Kingdoms (FR)/hb/
Faiths & Pantheons (FR)/hb/
Lords of Darkness (NPC book, FR)
Creatures of Faerun /sb/
Magic of Faerun /sb/
The Silver Marches (FR)/sb/
Into the Dragon’s Lair (10, FR)
Pool of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor (6, FR)
City of the Spider Queen (10-15, FR)
Eberron Campaign Sourcebook/hb/
Shadows of the Last War (2)
Curse of the Vampire’s Blade
Grasp of the Emerald Claw
*Mithril:City of the Golem (Sword & Sorcery)/sb/
*Hallowfaust: City of Necromancers (Sword & Sorcery)/sb/
*Burok Torn: City Under Siege (Sword & Sorcery)/sb/
*Vigil Watch: Warrens of the Ratmen (Sword & Sorcery)/sb/
*Hornsaw: Forest of Blood (Sword & Sorcery)/sb/
Evil (AEG) /sb/ New Societies
Undead (AEG)/sb/
Necromancy: Beyond the Grave (Mongoose) /sb/
MODULES
WotC
The Fright at Tristor (1-3 RPGA only)
The Sunless Citadel (1-3)
The Forge of Fury (3-5)
The Speaker in Dreams (5-8)
The Standing Stone (7-9)
Heart of Nightfang Spire (10…)
Deep Horizon (13)
Lord of the Iron Fortress (15)
Bastion of Broken Souls (18)
Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil (4-14 GH)
d20 system
FREEPORT
*City of Freeport(Green Ronin) /hb/
Death in Freeport (1-3)(Green Ronin Publishing)
Terror in Freeport (2-5)(Green Ronin Publishing)
Madness in Freeport (4-6)(Green Ronin Publishing)
Hell in Freeport (10-12)(Green Ronin Publishing)
Legions of Hell (sb) (Green Ronin Publishing)
Black Sails over Freeport (6+) (Green Ronin Publishing)
Tales of Freeport (varied 3-9) (Green Ronin Publishing)
SCARED LANDS
*Scarred Lands Campaign Setting: Ghelspad (Sword & Sorcery) /hb/
*Mithril:City of the Golem (Sword & Sorcery)/sb/
*Hallowfaust: City of Necromancers (Sword & Sorcery)/sb/
*Burok Torn: City Under Siege (Sword & Sorcery)/sb/
*Vigil Watch: Warrens of the Ratmen (Sword & Sorcery)/sb/
*Hornsaw: Forest of Blood (Sword & Sorcery)/sb/
Wilderness & Wasteland: Scared Lands Encounters (Varied) (Sword & Sorcery) x2
Scarred Lands Gazetteer: Ghelspad (Sword & Sorcery)
Serpent Amphora Cycle
(The Serpent Amphora (6-8) Net)
Serpent in the Fold (3-4)
The Serpent and the Scepter (4-8)
The Serpent Citadel (7-8)
NeMoren’s Vault (1-3)(Fiery Dragon Productions)
The Silver Summoning (5-7) (Fiery Dragon Productions)
To Stand on Hallowed Ground: The Ghost Machine (6)/Against Deception (10) (Fiery Dragon Productions)
The Giant’s Skull (10 or 5 Ogres) (Fiery Dragon Productions/Sword & Sorcery)
Of Sound Mind (1-3) Psionic Adventure (Fiery Dragon Productions/Sword & Sorcery)
Beyond all Reason (13) (Fiery Dragon Productions/Sword & Sorcery)
Queen of Lies (11) (Fiery Dragon Productions/Sword & Sorcery)
KALAMAR
*Kingdoms of Kalamar (Kenzer & Co.)/hb/
1 The Root of All Evil (1)(Kenzer & Co.)
2 Forging Darkness (3-4)(Kenzer & Co.)
3 Coin’s End (5)(Kenzer & Co.)
Harvest of Darkness (1-10) (Kenzer & Co.)
Aldriv's Revenge(1-3)(Kenzer & Co.)
Midnight’s Terror (6-8)(Kenzer & Co.)
Siren’s Prize (5-7) (Kenzer & Co.)
Deathright (8-9)(Kenzer & Co.)
Lands of Mystery (1-8) (Kenzer & Co.)
The Invasion of Arun’Kid (1-3) (Kenzer & Co.)
Pekal Gazeteer (Kenzer & Co.)
The Lost Tomb of Kruk-Ma-Kali (8-14) (Kenzer & Co.)
The Fate of Heroes (5-6) (Kenzer & Co.)
Genanvue: The Stones of Peace (City Setting) (Kenzer & Co.)
Brotherhood of Prophecy (1-3)(Scarab Games)
(The Book of Eldritch Magic (Malhavoc Press) (PDF))
(The Book of Rogueish Luck) (Malhavoc Press) (PDF))
The Bane Warrens (6-10) (Malhavoc Press)
Thieves of the Forest (1) (Atlas Games)
Three Days to Kill (1-3)(Atlas Games)
In the Belly of the Beast (2-4)(Atlas Games)
Maiden Voyage (1-3)(Atlas Games)
En Route (varied)(Atlas Games)
En Route II (Varied)(Atlas Games)
The Ebon Mirror (8-10) (Atlas Games)
A Green Place to Die(1-3)(Guildhouse Games)
A Thief’s Tale (4-8)(Guildhouse Games)
Red or White (5-7)(Guildhouse Games)
Plague of Nyrathoth ( - )(Guildhouse Games)
Dark & Stormy Night ( - )(Guildhouse Games)
Sun & Scale (Gaslight Press)
The Gryphon’s Legacy (1-3)
Tales from the Blood Plateau: (Monkey god Enterprises)
The Mask of Marruk (5-7)
Caravan of Hope (3-4)
The Last Initiate (5-6)
The Pale Knight series
The Lost Outpost (3-4)
Race to the Yellow Lotus (4-5)
The Treasures of Elbard: Canyon of the Spiders (8-9)
The Scourge of Raftport (8-9) (Monkey god Enterprises)
Ruins of Rackfall (3-4) (Monkey god Enterprises)
The Jade Magi Sewer Crawl (4-6 OA) (Monkey god Enterprises)
NECROMANCER GAMES
(W1a, The Wizard’s Amulet (1-3) (only available on net))
W1, The Crucible of Freya (1-3)
R1, Rappan Athuk, The Dungeon of Graves. The Upper Levels
R2, Rappan Athuk, The Middle Levels (7)
R3, Rappan Athuk, The Lower Levels (12+)
D1, The Tomb of Abysthor (2-8)(Necromancer Games
L1, Demons and Devils (9-13)(Necromancer Games
M1, Prisoners of the Maze (9-12)(Necromancer Games
M2, Maze of Zayene: Dimensions of Flight (9-12)
M3, Maze of Zayene: Tower of Chaos (9-12)
G1, The Siege of Durgam’s Folly (5-8)
G2, What Evil Lurks (8-10)
G3, Hall of the Reignbow Mage (7-9)
G4, The Vault of Larin Karr (4-9)
G5, Chaos Rising (12+)
G7, Morrick Mansion (3-5)
G8, Aberrations (6-8)
G9, The Lamentation of Thieves (1-12)
DM1, The Book of Taverns (10 inns)
DM2, Raise the Dead (quests to raise dead PCs)
(TG1, Feast of the Gobbler (3-5) Net(Necromancer Games))
*The Lost City of Barakus (1-5)
AEG Adventure Keep
8301 Castle Zadrian (4-5 AEG Adventure Booster)
8302 Sundered Faith (6-8 AEG Adventure Booster)
8303 Tomb of the Overseers (3-5 AEG Adventure Booster)
8304 Against the Barrow King (3-5 AEG Adventure Booster)
8305 Jerimond’s Orb (2-4 AEG Adventure Booster)
8306 Out of Body, Out of Mind (4-6 AEG Adventure Booster)
8307 Crypt of St. Bethesda (2-4 AEG Adventure Booster)
8308 Kurishan’s Garden (5-6 AEG Adventure Booster)
8309 The Last Gods (9-12 AEG Adventure Booster)
8310 Bring Him Back Alive (1-4 AEG Adventure Booster)
8311 The Heart of Amun Khonshu (8-12 AEG Adventure Booster)
8312 The Murder of the Seven Points (5-8 AEG Adventure Booster)
8313 Dead Man's Cove (4-6 AEG Adventure Booster)
8314 Garadon Manor (6-8 AEG Adventure Booster)
8315 Servants of the Blood Moon (7-10 AEG Adventure Booster)
8316 The Ice Caves of Azinth (2-4 AEG Adventure Booster)
8317 Princes, Thieves & Goblins
8319 Gottheit (9-11 undead AEG Adventure Booster)
8220 Dawn of the Serpent( - AEG Adventure Booster)
8321 The Red Isle (4-6 AEG Adventure Booster)
8322 The Last Defender (5-7 AEG Adventure Booster)
8323 The Illusionist's Daughter (4-6 AEG Adventure Booster)
8324 The Lash of Malloc (3-5 AEG Adventure Booster)
8325 Temple of The Iron Codex (7-10 AEG Adventure Booster)
8326 Honor Among Thieves (4-6 AEG Adventure Booster)
8328 Temple of the Eternal Flame (6-8 AEG Adventure Booster)
8329 The Lost King (5-7 AEG Adventure Booster)
8330 The Wreck of the Vulnerable Drake (5-7 AEG Adventure Booster)
8331 Kin and Kinsmen (5-7 AEG Adventure Booster)
8332 The Gauntlet (2-4 evil AEG Adventure Booster)
8333 Folnar’s Dagger (5-7 evil AEG Adventure Booster)
8334 Fall from Grace (6-8 evil AEG Adventure Booster)
8335 No Mercy (7-9 evil AEG Adventure Booster)
8336 The Dark Elf City of Hasuth (Any level AEG Adventure Booster)
8337 The Ogre City of Drank’suhl (Any level AEG Adventure Booster)
8338 The Prison City of Hell’s Reach (Any level AEG Adventure Booster)
8339 The Caravan City of Azul (Any level AEG Adventure Booster)
8340 Haringer ( - AEG Adventure Booster)
8341 In Cold Blood (6-8 ‘Dragons’ AEG Adventure Booster)
8342 Legacy of Madness ( - AEG Adventure Booster)
8343 Bitter Waters ( - AEG Adventure Booster)
8344 The Road to Covenant Hill (5-8 undead AEG Adventure Booster)
3846 The Flesh is Weak (7-10 undead AEG Adventure Booster)
8348 Treachery’s Reward (1-3 Oriental Adventure AEG Adventure Booster)
8349 Unspoken Shame (3-5 Oriental Adventure AEG Adventure Booster)
8530 Blood on White Petals (2-5 Oriental Adventure AEG Adventure Booster)
8351 The Daisho and the Ninja (1-3 Oriental Adventure AEG Adventure Booster)
MIDNIGHT CAMPAIGN
MN01 *Midnight campaign (Fantasy Flight) /hb/
MN02 Against the Shadow (Fantasy Flight)/sb/
MN03Crown of the Shadow (1-5)(Fantasy Flight)
What You Don’t Know (2-3) (Adventure in Game Trader Magazine #38)
MN04 Minions of the Shadow
MN05 City of Shadow/sb/ Accessory
MN06 Sorcery and the Shadow
(Tome of the Shadow Vol 1:Under the Shadow, Net)
LEGENDS & LAIRS
Series I
1 The Hidden Vault (5-7 Fantasy Flight Booster)
2 Darkwood’s Secret (5-7 Fantasy Flight Booster)
3 Raid on Tonwell (5-7 Fantasy Flight Booster)
4 The Fifth Sepulcher (12-15 Fantasy Flight Booster)
5 Olenar’s Heartstone (4-6 Fantasy Flight Booster)
6 Raven’s Mine (5-7 Fantasy Flight Booster)
7 The Broken Plain (3-5 Fantasy Flight Booster)
8 The Dragon’s Wish (9-12 Fantasy Flight Booster)
Series II
1 Tuggarth Gauntlet (4-6 Fantasy Flight Booster)
2 Lost Hunt (8-10 Fantasy Flight Booster)
3 Dark Tribe (3-5 Fantasy Flight Booster)
4 Black Stairs (4-6 Fantasy Flight Booster)
5 Voyage to Storm Isle (3-5 Fantasy Flight Booster)
6 Thief’s Gold (4-6 Fantasy Flight Booster)
7 Sign of the Skull (5-7 Fantasy Flight Booster)
8 Wreyland Serpent (12-15 Fantasy Flight Booster)
Series III
1 Steam Dragon’s Revenge (5-7 Fantasy Flight Booster)
2 The Sewer Fiend (5-7 Fantasy Flight Booster)
3 Darwell’s Tower (3-4 Fantasy Flight Booster)
4 Daggers at Midnight (3-5 Fantasy Flight Booster)
5 Froderick’s Tomb (4-6 Fantasy Flight Booster)
6 Spawn of Shurpanakha (10-12 Fantasy Flight Booster)
7 The Weeping Tree (4-6 Fantasy Flight Booster)
8 The Punishing Passage (4-6 Fantasy Flight Booster)
Galal’s Grave (1)(Fiend Games) See: Trolllord.com
Dzeebagd (2-4)(Fiend Games) See: Trolllord.com
Felsentheim: Dogs of War (3-5)(Fiend Games) See: Trolllord.com
IRON KINGDOMS
The Witch Fire Trilogy (Privateer Press)
Book 1, The Longest Night (1-3)
Book 2, Shadow of the Exile Hand outs, ship map
Book 3, The Sleeping Legion
Lock & Load (Privateer Press) Spy prestige class
The Pit of Loch-Durnan (2-4)(Mystic Eye Games)
The Witch of Loch-Durnan (5-7)(Mystic Eye Games)
Urban Blight: Foul Locales (Random City encounter locations) (Mystic Eye Games)
World of Whitethorn
1A, The Hamlet of Thumble (1-2) (Open World Press)
1B, The Village of Oester (3-5)(Open World Press)
The Canceri Chronicles Trilogy (Paradigm Concepts)
The Spear of the Lohgin (4-6) Town, Region, Stronghold Maps
Blood Reign of Nishanpur (5-7) City Map
The Bloody Sands of Sicaris (6-8) (Paradigm Concepts)
Dungeon Crawl Classics (Goodman Games)
#1 Idylls of the Rat King (1-3)
#2 The Lost Vault of Tsathzar Rho (1-3)
#3 The Mysterious Tower (3-5)
#4 Bloody Jack’s Gold (10-12)
#5 Aerie of the Crow God (7-8)
#6 Temple of the Dragon Cult (8-10)
#7 The Secret of Smuggler’s Cove (5-7)
#8 Mysteries of the Drow (7-9)
#10 The Sunless Garden (6-8)
#12 The Blackguard’s Revenge (9-11)
#14 Dungeon Interludes (1-13)
Junk
The Horror Beneath (Nightshift Games)
Dungeon World (Fast Forward Entertainment)/hb/
Fortress of the Ogre Chieftain (3-5) (Fast Forward Entertainment)
Temple of the Troll God (4-7) (Fast Forward Entertainment)
Greenland Saga: The Lost Norse Colony (2-4) (Avalanche Press)
OTHER
Dungeons & Dragons 3rd ed. Game Box
Character Sheets
Greyhawk (D&D) Gazetteer
DM Screen
Living Greyhawk Gazetteer
As you can se, it took me a while to pick out the good companies. I tend to stick with them now. That is not to say that their have not been some lemons.
I tend to pick up a couple books each month, but tend to now go for sourse books from WoTC first, and sdventures from Necromancer Games, Goodman Games (they are just fun to reat in their 1ed style and I'm a sucker for a dungeon crawl) and the Kalamar series.
Do I mind cost...yes, but when i look at the numbers of huors of play that I will get from a product, I find that most are a good deal.
ASEO out
Do I mind cost...yes, but when i look at the numbers of huors of play that I will get from a product, I find that most are a good deal.
But your going to get 0 hours of play out of most of this, surely. I can't believe that you have enough gaming hours to run most of this. Most adventures take something between 3 and 5 sessions to complete at least. You must have 10 years worth of adventuring material listed. If you include the idea of converting the 1st edition stuff and the Dungeon material I'm sure you have enough material to last you 110 years worth of gaming.
But your going to get 0 hours of play out of most of this, surely. I can't believe that you have enough gaming hours to run most of this. Most adventures take something between 3 and 5 sessions to complete at least. You must have 10 years worth of adventuring material listed. If you include the idea of converting the 1st edition stuff and the Dungeon material I'm sure you have enough material to last you 110 years worth of gaming.
True about how much play I get from any one product. I really like reading them though and have read most of them a couple of times. What it does let me do is run a campaign where I am always ready with a variety of adventures. party wants dungeons, caves, cities, deserts, interplaner cloud castle which is falling out of orbit...check, check, check and got it. In my current game, the players have decided that they would like to do some city adventures. I've got that covered. This also lets me merge products. I just did a composite of "Village of Oester" and "A Green Place to Die". If you are reading my "The Other Side Campaign, you can see how I have merged several products to make a campaign that my players loved.
I guess it is the Eagle Scout in me. I always have to "Be Prepared".
And, since I plan on living forever, now that I'm not getting sent to places where I get shot at, I'll have plenty of time to play everything;-)
ASEO out
Well as I compare it to my other hobby which is deer hunting, hunting is much more expensive.
Wow thats a lot of books. As a 13 year old kid (back on topic now) I think the pricing is way out of hand. It takes me about 1-3 months to get just one book. Luckily my step-dad used to play and he was too poor to get any books or pieces so now that he can buy them it has increased my library by like 400%.
I think he may have a really bad case of nostalgia. I'm not sure if any of you guys have heard about this site but it is a really good online comic and is one my favorites. Awesome artwork!
www.seraph-inn.com
also another one you probaly do know about is
www.giantitp.com
I'm 34. I started playing D&D when I was 8. I've been picking up stuff for a long time. First it was one book a month on my alowence. I always put the word out to firends and family, and had lots of D&D birthday parties in the early 80s when everyone was playing. That was a sure way to get a a half dozen modules. Now...well I can afford to but what I want.
ASEO out
I was flipping through the new DMGII. $40. Sorry, no thanks. Thank goodness that with really good rpgs, like D&D, all you really need are the core rulebook(s).
Some of my players buy every single book that WOTC puts out, God bless `em. Most never make it to the table.
I'll usually hold off on a book until I get pulled in bu those hooks that WotC puts in their other products. I also read reviews on products before I buy them. As you can see by my list above, I've picked up some trash. Alot of time i get book bundles off Ebay. I got the Complete Warrior and the Eberron book together for $14.32. You just have to know what you want and be willing to wait for the good deal. and always check the shipping costs. many loser sellers will list a buy it now at a real low price and then make up the difference with a through the roof S&H charge.
So, for this tip, all I ask is that you don't jack up the price on something I'm bidding on ;-)
ASEO out
Well, I think alot of the problem is D&D has always been a stickler for hard-cover, which for some reason is more expensive. I am 32, been playing since I was like six or seven, so I know about what the books have always cost for their quality. Seems like the older books were put together better.
However, Palladium's books are almost all soft-cover, less expensive, and don't seem to have the problems hard-covers do with binding. My old Rifts main book has been around the world with me {literally}, and is still in great shape. My D&D 3rd edition book started falling apart three weeks after I got it. And I'm careful with books.
I'll bet that if WoTC were to do soft-cover books, like they did with Talislanta {and yes, I have all of the Bard Games and WoTC Talislanta books... also in great shape} you'd see prices drop.
As for the new DMG II, um... that price is a touch much.
ASEO
Actually what really impresses me about your list is that you have it all so well organized. In terms of first and second edition stuff I suspect that many of the old timers have a pretty similier list of material. I certianly do - but not nearly so well organized.
ASEO
Actually what really impresses me about your list is that you have it all so well organized.
That comes from having to move so often, and the fact that military movers have been known to run over boxes with forklifts, or leave them sitting on some dock in the rain. About once a year I also make a video inventory for insurance purposes. Having this list also is great when I go shopping. I can reference the list and make sure I don't pick up a duplicate I don't want.
ASEO out
But what about younger gamers (and when I mean younger, I mean anywhere from 12-24 years old)? Most of the demographic I'm talking about don't have high-paying jobs. In today's economy, as bad as it is, are we pricing a generation out of the hobby entirely?
It's been a while but during my college days I worked at a hobby store and I was always amazed at the disposable income 12-18 year olds had. This was during the Magic craze and the amount of cards they would buy was baffling to me. (I certainly scraped and pinched to purchase D&D books when I was that age.) To some degree I agree with you though, I think todays target gamer has probably moved further into the 24-38 year old demographic that is willing to spend a reliable amount on their hobby from month to month.
It's all marketing, baby! You have to find your cash cow and milk it.
The prices do seem to be rising fairly steeply.
As a teenager, pre-employment, I mostly bought modules, screens, and used books in my range. The truly good stuff came much later.
I think, to an extent, we are pricing younger folks out. On one hand, they only need the core books. Done.
However, with all of the extras, all the miniatures, and all the other goodies, it can get a little crazy. I feel badly, because a good hardback book, like the complete series, are even a little expensive. I think this is alleviated by the fact most teenagers have a group they play with, and they can pool resources ot build a collection. Older players seems to prefer having their own books.
Someone brought up TSR pricing. There was a good point on why they were so far in debt. The pricing has a lot to do with it. WotC is owned by Hasbro, and they are worried about the bottom line. So the price point has to justify the expenditures. They won't let TSR-level foolishness go on. I remember someone saying once that the TSR boxed sets they sold for 25 bucks should have been priced at like 60 to make it even!
I'm not so sure we are pricing the teenagers out. I just spoke to my brother (he owns a gaming store) and he tells me that allowance rates for teens are actually quite high, averaging $1 a week per year of age. For many in their mid teens this means being able to buy a core book in 2-3 weeks - certainly a faster schedule than I managed as a kid... and quicker if they use any of the strategies we outlined above.
- Ashavan
I'm not so sure we are pricing the teenagers out. I just spoke to my brother (he owns a gaming store) and he tells me that allowance rates for teens are actually quite high, averaging $1 a week per year of age. For many in their mid teens this means being able to buy a core book in 2-3 weeks - certainly a faster schedule than I managed as a kid... and quicker if they use any of the strategies we outlined above.
- Ashavan
I'm not sure how this fits into the discussion, but, when I was a kid, I received $0.25 a tooth from the "tooth fairy." My nephew just received $20.00 for his front tooth. I'd say that, as far as the tooth fairy is concerned, inflation is not an issue.