I hear what you're saying but keep in mind these aren't the pieces of technology we've come to know. They're the 17th century counterparts. With ranged touch attacks and bonus to damage based on Dex these things are already power houses. Throw Deadly Aim into the mix and they'll be doing 8-15 damage per shot @ 5th level. They're pretty nuts.
It's so sad to see irrelevant topics created because someone was too lazy to wiki or google something. MW Bastard Swords and MW Short Swords make decent make shift Japanese themed weapons. But they're not perfect. I'm no swordsman but I've seen enough Kung-Fu movies and been to enough ren-fairs to know there's a difference. About 1/2 to 1/3 of the weight. I have been thinking of elven curve blades as katanas since I laid my hands on the Pathfinder Core Rulebook since day one. I'd be shocked to see much different from Ultimate Combat.
The case for Wisdom as presented by Gene Hackman's character in Unforgiven Little Bill Daggett wrote: Look son, being a good shot, being quick with a pistol, that don't do no harm, but it don't mean much next to being cool-headed. A man who will keep his head and not get rattled under fire, like as not, he'll kill ya. It ain't so easy to shoot a man anyhow, especially if the son-of-a-b%# is shootin' back at you. Granted Clint's character of William Munny seems the Cha based alternative. Obviously has been poor at decision making but dominates any scene with shear force of presence. Too many peole confuse charisma with popularity and likability. Have you ever found yourself doing something you didn't want to even though the person who told you to do it was visually unappealing and a jerk? That's force of personality (or middle management). I had the same initial thought as the thread progenitor. I can see it going either way. As it's built the class seems rather one dimensional compared to other Pathfinder classes. Some variation here would go a long way. Options for calm and cool vs rash and brash could present players with more than one option. Edit: Sorry about the swear. Meant to censor Mr. Hackman but forgot.
LazarX wrote:
Ah, I see where you're getting that now. I was just reading the text on the ability not the table. The ability is slightly less overpowered than I thought... But I still think it's overpowered. Lightning Bolt + Flaming Sphere + three 5th level Magic Missiles = 5d6 + 3d6+ 9d4+9 damage, ranging 29-93 damage per turn for 4 turns @ 5th level.
Use the original class with these modifications HERE. It's way more balanced (in spite of the fact that it is still an unbalanced class). The Tome of Secrets one is completely screwy. Why 5+Int skill points? Why not 4 or 6? Medium BAB with d6? These are just some of the inconsistencies that don't follow the class building guidelines lain down by the Core Rulebook. The biggest problem with the class is Weird Science. With 48 hours of work a 5th level Artificer can create an item that fires off four 5d6 Fireballs for 20d6 damage. The only limitation is time meaning there's nothing to stop a player from creating a game breaking device but the time that passes between adventures.
I can see why certain spells aren't on the list even though it would be nice to see them. Touch of Idiocy- On one hand it could be as minor as -1 to the 3 mental stats. At the other end of the scale 3 rounds in a row could ruin an encounter with a powerful wizard since the Magus can castrate them and eliminate any challenge. Touch of Fatigue/Waves of Fatigue- Seem reasonable. Especially since you can't be Fatigued twice. Bestow Curse- Another one of those I'd like to see on the list but due to the fact it's on a melee character it becomes incredibly obscene. Reliably dealing 3 damage/HD, again casters will get their primary stat clipped. Ray of Exhaustion/Enfeeblement- Two spells that DC doesn't really matter. Two Exh. and they're exhausted anyway. Rage- Easy. Can't think of a reason this isn't on there. Heroism & Greater- Another straight forward buff. Aside from direct damage and debuffing there's not a lot for touch/ray spells. Looking at the list I almost think Close Range is a mandatory Arcana just to pump up the touch options. Would be nice to see a Greater Bleed or some other spells that do interesting things with touch spells. More balanced debuffs too since the existing ones seem to be deliberately excluded from the list on account of they're ability to allow Magi to neuter any character.
After a double checking your mention of Brass Knuckles I checked the other new Monk Weapons. They all have the rule at the bottom of their description mentioning that Monks are proficient. Question 2 answered. Thank you. Cesti and Brass Knuckles make sense as to why they wouldn't be affected by the Perfect Strike feat since they're basically still unarmed attacks. The mechanical rational behind not allowing the feat to affect Temple Swords makes sense since they're clearly the damage output and crit range far exceed those of other monk weapons. But I can't wrap my head around why, thematically, the feat wouldn't affect the weapon.
Were the new Monk weapons deliberately omitted from the list of weapons affected by Perfect Strike in the APG? I'd really like to make a Temple Sword wielding Weapon Adept a la Samurai Jack but the feat just seems wasted if I'm wielding the Temple Sword. Also do monks retroactively get proficiency with all the new weapons? Seems silly like they'd have to take a feat to wield a Cestus or Brass Knuckles. My instincts say no since the rules specifically state otherwise and I'm sure no DM would mind home-brewing these in but I'd like to use it in PFS. Thanks,
I bought the old Pathfinder Campaign setting book about 2 months before I found out about the PFRPG update coming in September. I'm wondering if there will be a downloadable update for those of us with the previous version of the book? I wouldn't even mind paying for a PDF with updates, but another $50 book... Will the new Campaign Setting be vastly different enough to make this impossible, or rather worth buying the same thing a second time? I kinda feel like an Apple customer who bought an iPhone a month and a half before the next gen is released.
We had the Elephant and the ladder thing come up. It was a rope ladder and it was meant to be climbed down. DM ruled (and all but the Ranger's owner agreed) that the Elephant couldn't climb down the ladder. Thus the elephant just jumped down, made an acrobatics check and took 17 pts of damage. 60ft, that's not detrimental to a 7th level ranger with the animal companion feat from Seeker of Secrets. Common sense usually dictates rulings at the table. A medium elephant on an angled ladder seems feasible to me. Down a rope ladder, no dice.
My biggest problem with the class is that the Spell Critical ability doesn't have any synergy with the the Arcane Armor feats. I know there are much better ways of armoring yourself via arcane methods but it would be nice if you could be wearing a chain shirt and not have to worry about your 20% Spell Failure checks on criticals.
Just to clarify he isn't a player in a campaign of mine, rather a participant in our weekly Pathfinder Society events at Redcap's Corner in Philly. The first two games he played I was the DM. In our most recent session I got to be play as opposed to DM and he was also there fresh into his second level. He is now a Rogue/Alchemist and since he is entirely new to RPGing I pretty much have written his character for him. His Str is 13 and his Dex is 16 so he's got a carrying capacity of 50lbs and only about 24lbs of equipment. He can carry about 1 two-handed weapon and 2 one-handed weapons. This equipment of course disappears at the end of the session as per PFS rules. I applaud his creativity in approaching the use of the bonus feat that those with a fresh mind to RPGing seem to be quick to discover. I was more or less curious to see how others felt about using it in the manor described.
So at my FLGS we have weekly PFS games. One of the players we introduced RPGs too via PF (I've written 3 characters for new players now, thanks to PF) has taken his second level in Alchemist. His first was Rogue. When I read the profile of an Alchemist I see Throw Anything as being there for improving bombs but he has taken it to a crazy new level. He quaffs Mutagens of Str and starts chucking every weapon he picked up throughout the session and starts throwing great clubs, scimitars, and whatever else he could grab off slain enemies. This is A.) awesome and B.) kind of contrary to the role I imagine the Alchemist performing. Once he gets to level 6 in Alchemist he'll be able to throw poisoned weapons every where. For a Rogue/Alchemist this seems fitting but should a character specializing in brewing chemicals be throwing Great Clubs? I don't want to nerf my friend's character but I'm trying to throw my two cents in on how certain aspects of a class write up can be tweaked in ways I would never think of.
I have been thoroughly reading through the Alchemist and Inquisitor and though I missed out on biweekly PF Society this week at my local game store I plan on making an Alchemist in the near future. Now with the way the Society works the Cha Damage won't be a problem as it is resolved at the end of the session (unless there's some post combat Dip checks or the like). But I can see it being a problem in the long term home campaigns where adventures may take place over several days. Rolling a 1 isn't a huge problem since it's gone the next day. Rolling a 4, however, results in a penalty the duration of which means the alchemist isn't using mutagen again for a few days. With the list of Formulae including things like shield, bull's strength, transformation, true strike, and other such combat effective abilities it definitely seems like a Mr. Hyde/Hulk genetic combat monster is a viable build but the cumulative penalties of doing this measure in days where as the boon is measured in minutes. I can see the penalty being there for flavor reasons. I can also see it there to keep the Alchemist from doing it every encounter. But making it a potentially twice a week (game time) seems a bit much. I'm wondering how and why the 1d4 Cha damage was decided as a penalty for something that lasts 10min at level 1. Mechanically it seems out of theme. I would rather it be something more like the fatigue due to Barbarian's Rage. Mutagens don't seem as potent as Rage to me but the penalties for Mutagens are far magnified. The duration is longer but the Ability & Nat. Armor Bonus is likely only relevant for 1 encounter maybe 2 at higher level depending on spacing. Whereas a Barbarian can turn off a rage at the end of an encounter and use it again for the next one considering he waited around for 2x the 6 seconds in a round he was raging. The fatigue rarely gets in the way of encounters and at worse means the party has to wait around for a bit. Mutagens mean rushing to the next one to ensure the effect is still on and potentially waiting days until the character is reset to it's default.
Does having a Eilodon interfere with the Summon Monster ability in regards to the limits on Animal Companions? I don't think so because the Summon isn't technically a Companion but I didn't get a chance to Summon in the most recent adventure and wanted to double check before I potentially break rules.
Sigurd wrote:
I'm a big fan of the engineering type classes. I'm currently playing an Artificer in a PFRPG game. I raised the HD to match the AB & I'm ignoring the Craft Reserve class feature since magic items no longer require XP. This is the first Artificer I've played and I'm having a lot of fun playing him. So far I've noticed that the class is very broken as the whole party is running around with whatever magic items they want at discounted prices. Also being able to cast 3rd level spells at level 3 is pretty nuts. I'm trying to avoid using every spell possible and stick to ones that make sense from a steampunk pseudo-magic sense. I call my Fireballs "Rockets" I refer to my use of the Fly spell as using my "Jetpack" and generally avoid using spells that defy artificial restrictions that are defined mostly in my head. When I fail my Use Magic Device checks I rp it like a malfunction or lack of fuel. My infusions follow suit. Bull's Strength is my Powered Gauntlet. I don't use my weapon enhancement to give my weapon (a mace I'm referring to as my wrench) bane vs whatever creature we're fighting this battle. Rather I tend to stick with the Shock ability. I'm a role player not a power gamer so I pick the class that best defines the character I want to make and try not to figure out the best way to abuse the abilities. I could theoretically have used enlarge person, bull's strength, bane, and energy bonus to deal 5d6 +3 (if Str was 10) at level 1. That's no fun to me and would probably annoy party members. Before I overcame my fear of trying to understand the Artificer rules the method of choice for becoming an engineer was a few levels of Rogue & Sorcerer followed by the Gnome Artificer class from the 3.0 Magic of Faerun book. This Prestige Class was fairly weak but fit the concept well. There was a small list of spells levels 0-4 that the GA could imbue items with effectively creating wands of any item on the body slot chart. They were very limited but lots of fun. All in all it was a very weak class but fulfilled my goals just fine. The FR Faiths & Pantheons also offered the Techsmith of Gond Prestige Class which granted a companion creature that was essentially your own personal golem that gained bonuses for levels like a druid's companion. It also granted a slew of anti-construct capabilities as well as a bonus domain. The class was designed for Clerics but a few other classes could get access to it if built right. The last real option was the Tinker class presented in the WoW RPG. I never bought the book but read all about the class in Barnes & Noble. The core of the class consisted of using new skills presented in the book called Craft (Technological Device) and Use Technological Device. The Equipment section had a guide to building devices and a list of sample devices. I think the class accomplished the goal of creating a viable engineer class the best since it relied on no magic and was extremely versatile. Flying machines, Rocket Launchers, Powered Armor, Bombs were all in their wheelhouse. I never bought the book however since the power scale for the other classes & races seemed to have been increased and I wasn't sure if the class would be balanced in a non-WoW campaign. I would like to see something published for PFRPG especially since they've got Alkenstar, the technology proficient nation in the middle of the Mana Wastes. A cross between the Artificer & Tinker would probably be the best way to execute such a class.
Eberron is my first choice. I'm currently playing an Artificer in a Pathfinder campaign and I'm avoiding abusing the broken nature of the class. Aside from that point of personal relevance, It's just a great setting. Still high fantasy with out being as cliched as Dragonlance, Grey Hawk & Forgotten Realms (though I would like to see Faerun return to it's pre-4e state). The Wraith pretty much hit the nail on the head with his post. Planescape is my second choice because of my fond memories of Torment & The Nameless One. Dark Sun and Ravenloft come in third because I never got a chance to play either but they both sound very compelling from all the research I've done and would love viable post-apocalyptic fantasy & really excellent Gothic undead. |
