Tuffon's page

There are no missions the game will make for you .. Those will have to come from what you and your friends want to accomplish.

There are PvE escalations you can take on and build up recipes and expendables and coin.- each escalation you face will be different types of opponents, bandits, goblins, ogres, duergar , elves, skeletons, wolves, humans, elementals etc..

One of you guys should make a company.. and have everyone join it. ( eventually you can attach that company to a settlement)

Get more than 6 players into that company( can use alts to fill the needed spaces), Each account has 3 character slots.. so 6 players in a company with 2 people isn’t that hard to do as it is 2 accounts.

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As you and your friends play and do things in game, craft, kill mobs, etc.. your company gains influence.

The more people you add the higher your influence cap will be ( There are diminishing returns on that.. so after 30-40 characters consider making a second company.. just to have more influence to spend later)

Influence can be used to take over hexes with outpost and holdings. These generate bulk resources you can sell or stock up until the day comes you want to try to take over a settlement.( bulk resources are needed to keep your settlement running)

Influence is also the PvP currency right now.. you can use it to feud other companies , so you can fight them without reputation hits.

Crafting and gathering are also activities you can do.. since all gear is player made. You have to come up with a way to keep yourself in gear. Do enough PvE and escalations to acquire enough coin to buy the gear you need. Or have a few folks focus on crafting and gathering things you will use.

Think of characters as roles, you aren't limited to just one class, you spend xp on the skills you want and can mix and match to your hearts content.

The game is xp over time so one character can learn everything, it would just takes years of xp to have everything mastered on one character.. but in a few months you could be a decently paired cleric and fighter type character or something like that..

Each account only allows 1 character to learn xp at a time, even though you can make 3 on your account.

Currently it is PC only, a new company is hopefully taking over development at the end of July.. so who knows what plans they have for future play options and support. ( no official word who it is so we call them NewCorp right now)

Traditional early access, alpha model sounds a bit different. Those free to play offerings attract a different type of player. Mainly they are interested in figuring out how to manipulate the game systems to get through this aspect of the game faster. What builds work what builds don’t. All the systems are already built and the traditional testers are testing what they want to be able to do in game.

PFO is a bit different in those regards because we aren’t testing the game systems as much as designing those systems. Which leads to folks raging that we are doing their job for them and we shouldn’t have to pay for it etc ..

My take on this is, that traditional model you like has produced 0 games I have enjoyed for more than a week in the last 5 + years. They spend millions on a game, embed some things in it that make the system unplayable and by the time it gets to me, there is no hope to change those systems to make them better.

So I am gladly spending money on helping design a game that I can play all the time. The developers are listening to our input and designing the systems based on that input. I Have been playing for 5 months now and enjoying it as opposed to buying a finished game. Playing that game for a week and moving on to the next title that I hope will be different or better … but hasn’t been in the last five years and probably wont be in the next five years.

What’s that definition of insanity... the one about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.. that is how i feel about the traditional model at this point and am happy to be trying something new.

So last week some folks from Phaeros take a KB tower ( not sure why perhaps they can shed some on that ..).

Night after that (Thursday?)they defended it so it remained with them.

The following night (Friday) it was taken back.

Saturday am excursion led to battle Phaeros near Phaeros with instructions given to not attack other settlements down there as our beef was with Phaeros only. We were told EBA/TEO was not going to be involved as long as our fight was with Phaeros only.

Saturday Night, Golgotha takes 2 towers from Phareos.

Instead of coming to defend those towers Phareos organizes an attack to take 4 towers right after they lost 2. It was at this point folks from EBA started helping as they were part of the organized response team to take 4 towers as well as some folks up north taking one near marchmont(alderwag or something got invovled who asked them to do this i wonder ..) ..

Sunday you guys decide to take all towers from us…

Sunday afternoon open season is declared on anyone that is in the SE….

just my view of the last couple days ..

They have Elite Knights, and elite goblins, and elite etc as achievements ….. One could presume once influence is introduced the amount gained is going to be based on the actual achievement and not equal to just the number of the achievement. Goblin slayer 7 is most likely not going to count the same as ogre slayer 7 in regards to the influence you gain…

Until the amount of influence is published for each achievement , I don’t see how this could be the primary concern.. if ogre slayer turns out to be worth 4 times what goblin slayer is worth what would the problem be?

Request for goblinworks.com and the land rush guild list…

Looking through all the approved guilds and having each with a weblink is great but can you change the links so they open in a new tab or page when clicked..

I know I can do it on my own but would be easier to compare all the guilds and options while looking at everything, ( while at the same time keeping your site open and usable.. )

Figured I’d add this to the list of non important request for you guys to consider…

So if I am in a group with someone that is feuding with another character. I dont think I would actually see that character as hostile. If a fight breaks out I guess I would see the hostile flag then but just looking at it from first contact I wouldn't think my group status lets all flags from all the other members transfer to me.

Just thinking of a situation where you could S&D a character involed in faction or feud hostile states. Not everyone in a group has to have the same fueds or factions. Which I think is why the S&D mechanism is going to sit on top of the feud and faction flags..

I understand the desire to want to respond to your friends getting attacked….

But just because you are friends with them doesn’t mean you should get a free pass for protecting them. Your friends using the SAD system are trying to interact with others without out rep hits, but they are not interacting with them in a mutual beneficial way, they are in essence robbing them. The S&D mechanic is allowing them to rob them in a way they may not loose rep for doing it.

They are your friends and you can do what you want to protect them but don’t ask for a free pass. The event they are attempting is meant to rob people and just because you are friends with them doesn’t mean you should be able to jump in on their side without taking a rep loss. You are basically standing up on the side of the conflict that says Yes I like it when people get robbed.. beyond the point that your friends are doing the robbing why should you not take a rep hit for this action?

I do agree anyone in the blind that initiates a SAD should have the status handed down to the rest of the group( but I also feel there should be a range on this because 30 people hidden 200’ away behind a hill should not gain the same benefits as the 12 or so folks all hanging around the blind).

Blinds to me indicate small areas, an area that lets 50 people into the event is not a blind , it is a fort.

TT control is not only about crowd control. It is more battle field control
Haste your allies Slow your enemies. Use wall spells (fire, force, ice, wind) to protect your group and force the bad guys to where you want them.

Once you can funnel them you can hit with ae spells or have your allies burn them down. Not sure if pfo will have wall of force and the others but control doesnt have to mean stun lock.

For those who wanted/needed a quick breakdown of AoE ability TT clerics get in Pathfinder...

In TT Pathfinder Clerics get an AoE ability called Channel Positive energy (they also can choose negative energy..). Positive energy heals players and harms undead. (negative energy will harm players and heal undead..)edit* they don't do both at the same time, the character chooses if they are going to heal players with positive or harm undead with positive. during the pathfinder TT beta play test it actually did both at the same time but was changed to only doing the players choice when beta play test was concluded * edit done..

There is a feat in TT that allows a cleric to remove targets from the effects of the AoE called Selective Channel. This feat allows you to remove a number of players from the effect = to your charisma modifier.

I think it is a mistake to think all Clerics are going to be your typical MMO healer type, you are going to get some that focus on inflicting wounds and channeling negative energy..Just still have yet to hear how GW plans on implementing negative energy clerics.

edit* additional notes on channel energy- paladins get a healing ability called lay on hands, but i think at 4th level they can convert to uses of their lay on hands healing into the channel a cleric does.

for those interested in the power curve of the amount of healing this ability in TT heals 1d6 for every 2 levels. So 1 d6 at level 3. This scale also is the scale rogues use to determine sneak attack damage.

okay got some rest..

The more I think about how to exchange items from a SAD, the more I like the idea that caravans and characters have high difficulty items they can hide on their person.

This stand and deliver, or stop and Frisk, is not a Stop and instant body cavity search. I still get the sense that these encounters should last no more than a couple minutes, searching the entire contents of a wagon could take 10 minutes itself. Doing that for 4 wagons would mean 40 minutes.

I really like the idea that groups can hide items in wagons and on their person that are hard to find with searches. Players and Caravan masters can pick out what those items are and place them in the inventory slots they want, basically they are hiding the best stuff they have making it hard to discover in a quick search of things.

If you set these values beforehand either manually or by the default order of how were placed in inventories/wagons. Then in order to make a quick streamlined search of items you can use a wagon masters hiding skill (or characters Int,Wis or Dex score) versus a bandits search skill to determine what items are found.

Think of the SAD as having 2 skill trees, the first is the ability to demand a % of goods. The second tree is the ability to find high valued items quickly.

Think of the inventory as a numbered list with the high valued items on top of the list and the low valued items on the bottom of the list.

When the SAD is initiated, a random skill roll versus merchants/ characters hiding skill can be completed to form a list of items that the bandit found, those items can appear in the window and the character/merchant can at that time if the bandit found too much stuff or if he missed the real stuff you are transporting. If SAD is accepted, the bandit can take all that stuff, some of that stuff, or none of it.

The skill roll determines at what inventory value the bandit starts listing items, his % SAD skill will determine how large the list is (compared to the total % of the inventory/wagons).

I just like to think that if I had a super valuable item in my inventory, or in the wagon I would of taken the time to hide it as best I could Just using the standard death loot % list may be easy but I don’t like the complete random feel of what is found, id like to think that I had a choice in making my best stuff hard to find. A very skilled SAD searcher with a really good roll could find that stuff, but the bandit that is on his 2nd raid of their lives probably is not going to hit the jackpot when he goes through my stuff.

Haven’t given this one much thought, and its late .. but it is an idea..

Give the caravan master the ability to load stuff in a way that it aligns with % chance to be discovered prior to the caravan moving.

Think of it as hiding the T2 ore under the barley and Hops. Or under the layer of wooden planks. Or in the middle of stacks of T1 ore. The point is the caravan master can set up items in a designated order and give all the contents a percentage value 1-100. Usually higher value = better concealed.

Come up with a mechanic that will compare the skill of the SAD bandit with the skill of the caravan master ,

to determine the items the bandit finds during a couple min looking through the wagons. Give the bandits check against the caravan master to determine a starting spot 1-100.

Take that number as the start point in the caravan inventory. Add the percentage the bandit skill is able to request or was agreed upon to that starting point.

You now have a quick way to work out the items the SAD grants but bandits woudlnt like it if they always found barley and hops and no good ore.. but then again how long would it take to search 5 wagons for everything they contain.. if your are out in the open and robbing someone?

Anyway just a thought..
Players would have to delegate bags and slots as a % for when the skill is not used on caravans.. so may not work but was worth mentioning..

Will back away from the cliff..again.. but still contend coins as a tangible objects are a good thing../em heads off to sulk.

And to clear up my views ...I never want a % of coin a person has in the bank to be lootable on death(very big no to alt banks).

I dont think Marshals should be using a SAD mechanic at all, not sure where i lost you on that one, sorry.

I just think SAD should be chaotic, a Character needs to be chatoic to slot it.I brought up the Marshal thing as ah opposite of SAD, as a lawful example.

Meaning groups participating with characters using SAD need to take Chatoic hits. Conversely characters that would be in a Marshal Group when he uses his abilities would be taking lawful hits.( when/if Marshal becomes a reality)

Guess it could mean that you are open game for anyone around you till your attacker flag wears off in 30 seconds,

after that 30 seconds if they continue to attack you they then become the aggressors..

sorry to get side tracked on this thread... but flagging came up and figured to understand this correctly before offering anymore thoughts on the issue..

Still trying to wrap my head around how flags and SAD will work as things stand at this moment.

The attacker (bandits) issues a SAD, a form of an attack. They now can not physically assault the character/caravan for 30 seconds. If they do they get a hostile flag.

The merchant character perspective is the bandit just issued me a SAD(attacked me) he has the attacker flag, but is not hostile at this point. If I can kill him in 30 seconds I wont loose rep.. If I cant kill him I become hostile to him..

Any witnesses have the same view as the merchant….

If the SAD window closes without a deal being struck, all should now be hostile to each other (except the witness they haven’t really picked sides at this point). True the merchant didn’t attack twice but the SAD is meant as a way to say hey I think I have you where I want you and I could kill you..

If a deal is struck the attacker flag drops and the 2 parties go about their business? (I know my thought is the bandits should become guards for x time before they get paid, but that is not that relevant to the attacker flag discussion)

If a SAD is accepted why would there be lingering flags? if the SAD is not accepted the normal PvP flags should make things clear as to the reputation and level of criminal activity wouldn't it?

As to preemptive bandit hunts, not sure what to say other than if you are assigned to clear the thief’s forest by your king, how do you tell who is a thief and who is a peasant?

You can talk to folks, but I don’t think flags should play a part in that, if certain bandits have become a problem use the bounty system so you know who to look for.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to declare open war on bandits in an area you don’t control and expect the bandits to identify themselves on site. For Bandits that are truly notorious use the bounty system for what it was intended to be.

My understanding of what SAD is …
SAD is meant as a way to allow a bandit ( chaotic character) to interact with those around them without out sliding into the dreaded chaotic evil alignment shift.

I think the skill needs to be slotted in order to use it and the skill level is what should increase what the bandit is able to request.

It should be a way for that person to gain reputation to a point, but in doing so restrictions need to placed on how that happens or you end up with bandits SADing each other in order to increase reputation (This is why I think what you can request should be skill based and not reputation based)

In a RP sense I view the bandit as having caught a character with their pants down, they are basically extorting them instead of fighting them outright, giving the victim a chance to see they possibly made a mistake in wandering in a place that they should not of been.

In regards to the bandit that accepts a SAD from a character, I feel it should be a requirement for that person/group to become a guard for the person/ group that gave them the requested payment. This will keep that bandit group from logging in more characters and treating the person as their personal toll booth till they get to where they feel they are safe. If you make them honor the extortion payment for like 10-15 min, you should tie the reputation increase to that protection or repuation hit if they are unable to protect them.

The flags the bandit receives should be tied to the SAD that is accepted.
1(Bully). Give me 10 gp and ill be on my way. Bandits get no reputation for bully level SAD and don’t get protection detail for 10 min but immediately gets a hostile flag for double that time. But at the bully level they also don’t get to request outrageous amounts of gold or inventory( think like give me your lunch money). I cant think of a reason a bully should gain reputation for something like this, (perhaps 10 points with a limit of 40 points raised this way every day…)

2(extortion). give me 40%-50% of your cargo in that wagon, ill protect you for 10/15 min or till you get to someplace safe. Bandit receives no criminal flag as the victim is agreeing they made a mistake, Bandit will also get a Large bonus to reputation for completing this SAD. If the victim feels the need for retribution at this point there is always the bounty system..(You would have to put a fairly long time limit on reissuing a SAD on this type to make sure it is not abused to just raise reputation, but you should make the increase 100 or so and something you can do every hour or something like that with a high daily cap of 500 or so)

3. Any SAD denied bully or extortion would result in appropriate flag showing that they are criminals. If the bandit is killed or runs away they should suffer a rep hit. if the Bandit kills the victim or the victim runs away the bandit should gain reputation (given the rep increase if the victim escapes and the ability to abuse the rep system , running should be a small rep increase with a small daily limit)

I guess my biggest concern is the ability for bandits to abuse a reputation gaining system using SAD’s. which is why I feel the ability to ask for things should be skilled based and not rep based.

Same fear of abuse exist for lawful characters creating a CE alt to log in and kill each day to increase lawfulness though, so I get bandits need a way to raise reputation, just as good characters need a way to raise lawful reputation (but I believe in long time limits and daily limits to what can actually be gained by doing the same action over and over.. regardless if your SADing or killing CE bad guys..)

Think the bigger question is how are you going to handle groups of bandits, will all the players in the group take an average skill level to determine what they can request? Or is only the leader of that group responsible for slotting the skill… One on one options are easy to think about but we probably will have groups of 6 v6 or more in these situations .. guess the post this discussion request came from said groups were being talked about/reworked so I can’t really comment on that till I learn more about groups…

Anyway I know my views aren’t how things are written up as of now, but since this is a discussion and what we want to see out of the system figured id share my 2 coopers..

edit -- * As I quickly skim others thoughts, I think I need to amend some of my own.
At no time other than when you are in your town with your bank Do I feel there should magically moving gold or items around or trading goods into coin.
Half the point of the game is to move things from one place to another, requesting 40-50% of goods on a wagon should mean those guys have to carry that stuff to a safe place. They inherit the same risk I am taking trying to bring it back to town. You should only be able to trade things you have on your person unless you are in a place that has access to your bank….

What part of that seems like it is too much? The characters aren’t going to be wiped, you get to keep the xp and things you earn. Is it a choice to play early with not everything turned on? Yes but it doesn’t seem too steep of a price if you are interested in the game over a long period of time. Even a casual player would spend 8-10 hours per week, which works out to like .30 or .40 cent an hour for the month. Not many activities I can think of give me 40-50 hours of entertainment for $15 a month.

I would much rather folks interested in playing the game for a long time than a free version or free to play players running around with no vested interest in how the game turns out. Having to pay to play at least will keep those participating vested in the outcome of the game.

If you read the below and miss the joke then sarcasm attempts to hit you but you evade!

Poor Barbarians will never gain any XP as they don’t get to read unless they spend skill points in it…

Since titles and suffixes have come up here, I would like to ask that some titles as well as some suffixes be reserved for achievements in the game.
Completing the goblin slaying tree or achievement should grant you a Goblin Slayer suffix or something. Achievements are great and all but helps when you can show them off on occasion.

Don’t let folks use decimals with money and bartering and we probably wouldn’t have an issue with a lot of the examples above.

1000GP or 1005GP if you want a decimal it is 1000 GP 54 SP 10 CP , a pain to read so folks probably just use GP, but the SP and CP should exist for decimals.

If you don’t allow a person to place something for sale for 1000.00 then they will always read it as the whole number of the coin type that is listed…

Cleric type questions
1. Think people have said 9 initial deities, Is that number correct?
2. Clerical Domains, Are they going to be in the game?
2a. If there are domains, is it possible to just pick 2 domains, or do clerics have to follow a deity?
2b. Are there are going to be all domains listed in the Core Rulebook?
2c. Are domain powers going to be included in the game?
3. Will deities grant weapon proficiency with the gods favored weapon?
4. Cleric spells
4a. will pfo heal spells return x health points to character or percentage? Or both % and point total heals will be available?
4b. Will domains grant access to special spells(even wizard spells) like the table top? how will domain spells be different from normal spells? ( power consumption, effect intensified etc)
4c. Will alignment based spells be included? Holy Smite for example harms and blinds Evil creature, nothing to good and minor stuff to neutral.. ( unholy smite doing the reverse..)
4d. Will Channel abilities be included? If so will related feats be included?

General Spell Questions
1. Will Summoning spells be included in PFO? (summon monster or nature ally I, II, III etc)
2. Will long turn spells like mage armor be hours long affairs costing power, or short term spells where it is expected to cast this early on in combat encounters.
3. Will all spells register as agro from a caster or only ones that do physical damage? Spells like color spray or grease that affect areas but do no damage, will they cause friendly fire if they hit people or is that only damage based spells?

General Combat Questions
1. Will there be weapons with better critical ranges and multipliers like there is in tabletop? For instance a rapier or a falchions each have critical ranges of 18-20 doing x2 damage versus a warhammer that only critical’s on a 20 but does more damage at x3.
2. Can you give us an idea as to what a normal T1 type skill is (in regards to weapon feats is this power attack, weapon focus, combat reflexes etc ) and also a idea of what power type level or feat would be considered a T2 ability (weapon specialization type things, or whirlwind attack type things?) .

I know the folks from my tabletop games have little interest in defeating Imuberwithaswordbro or orge mage, they have more interest in defeating His Mighty Girthness Chief Randwattle Gutwad (chief of the licktoad goblin clan for those wondering) after clearing a goblin camp or harvesting a gathering nod deep in goblin lands.

Since people don’t know when or where these nodes would show up, unless a group dedicates themselves to following you around and watching you till you find one (which would seem odd to be followed for like an hour..), I don’t think they can plan on attacking you when you are done with the big bad guy, now if they happen to find you during the fight they might, but those groups would attack you regardless if you fought “His Mighty Girthness Chief Randwattle Gutwad” or a plain “goblin bandit”.

Just my thoughts as usual, adding a familiar named bad guy to a few encounters will make the rpg tt folks I know feel like they are playing pathfinder. And considering the gathering nodes are already in place how much extra work would be involved to add a named bad guy to the last wave..

Thanks Stephen!
I was just curious about the short ranged AoE’s, I think originally it was stated some short ranged ones would not be friendly fire, but from what you said and how the video looked it appears you guys decided even short range things will hit friends as well.

Hopefully start hearing about divine magic soon, am super curious if things like holy smite make it in the game( ae effects that harm folks of certain alignments and do nothing to good aligned folks..or the inverse), or channel abilities(healing and harm) and the selective channeling feats all make it in… /em waits patiently.

I would like to have the ability to create a language, that I can then teach to others .
Something along the lines of after X ranks in linguistics you can develop a language and can train others in that language.

In and of itself it developing a special language is not that useful, so you chat about your plans and the guy that worked his way into your settlement and is hidden to hear your plans of who to attack or how you are defending gets to read “Waiodih akdnadf and woeijl vmmmkls” while you and your group are discussing your plans.

Yes I understand, folks will just use microphones, and
other ways to communicate so I do not expect people to actually eaves drop on council meetings, was just painting a picture of what things would look like if you don’t know the language.

Yet if you give groups and formations, and certain areas of your town that use them bonuses like better movement speed ( for raiding parties, ie navy seals and their hand signs), resupply bonuses, anti corruption bonuses ( not like the new thief in your settlement will readily know your towns dialect and language).

Then the use of language as a role play tool would have a definite impact upon each region and the players with in it. Yes there would be a common tongue people could still use, but if everyone in your group took time to learn a certain language I could see that having a lasting effect on the game mechanics.

All though once you learn the basics of the language that is created, I guess you only can do it once, but if your master linguistics continues to improve and the bonuses you grant improve based on how many other people use and teach it then it could have a larger impact upon the world .

Anyway just another idea to toss out there..

This is just at my table, but I approach pit spells and these tricks the same. The Pit is an extra dimension it is placed in our dimension but nothing in the current dimension is affected. (spell even says the underlying material is not affected).

So basically you are using your dimension references to make an extra dimensional pit appear where you want it to be. nothing that you can manipulate in this dimension is going to affect the pit you created.
so papers, rugs, boats etc aren't actually holding the pit they are just references you used to create make the pit appear they are not actually physically connected to that item so manipulating the item has no affect on the pit itself it remains exactly where you wanted it to appear.

(to the wall of force issue, i think your only option in casting is to create a vertical wall any thing that breaks the surface of the wall causes the spell to fail ... even if you want to try a horizontal wall then the ground is not going to be a marble smooth surface.. at least in my game)

Considering the coordination it will take between the bot and the guild, having some one accidentally triggering the bans is low. It also means the guild will pay more attention to who they let in and what roles those people will play.

And keep in mind these actions will be mostly caught by Humans, and no where did i say it would be banned on the first offense. A warning could be issued to cease those actions where it makes sense to do so. Yet if its the same organization repeatedly doing the same thing with different alt accounts what really is the consequence to the settlement? It puts the leadership of that settlement to put more effort in policing itself and vetting the people they give important roles to.

I know for certain I expect any game I play to discourage hacking by any means it can, rather than saying well we cant stop it so you might as well make your own bots to protect yourself against it.

For me this is the larger issue, folks are right meaningful consequences for actions have been a theme in the all aspects of the design. Then i read this thread and just wonder if designers meant it or did they say what they had to say in order to gain my support, all the while knowing that actions like these are not only accepted but also expected.

I would put a sale on the core rule book with a message that says something along the lines " Pathfinder RPG, a game that doesnt need to be rewritten every 3 years"

Work in some of Steve Geddes Ideas of material for Golarion.

If its Q3 can work the PFO Thornkeep book into it(get some publicity for PFO as well as Pathfinder) . Thornekeep after all is already in the works just how they market it i guess.

Anyway thats my 2 coopers for what they are worth.