Alviana Shadowsworn

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Scarab Sages

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Well... Wizard?

My preference would be Alchemist - but to be a "full caster", pure Blaster, I would say Evoker Wizard.

Scarab Sages

Lord Fyre wrote:
Melkiador wrote:
The Mystic Theurge is generally considered to be a weak option. When dealing with full casting classes, dipping out of the spellcasting is almost always a bad idea. And being that you already have a full wizard and a full cleric, I really don't think you'll be able to bring anything relatively interesting to the table. With your very classic party composition, I'd be tempted to bring a bard, especially if your party has never seen how useful and powerful a bard can be.
A Bard would compliment the other two casters beautifully.

I could see bringing in an Alchemist. Perhaps a Crypt Breaker or Trap Breaker Alchemist.

Though a Bard would also be a good choice.

Scarab Sages

Alchemist (Chirurgeon) - gets Breath of Life as a 4th level extract - and with Poisoners Gloves they can hand them off to other players to use as an attack.

Barbarian player: “what’s my chance to hit a dead friend, if I charge across the room?”

Scarab Sages

Every good Alchemist should issue Troll Oil to his party, just before starting that Dungeon Crawl (and try to renew it every hour). Cost of 50gp (1/3 of that if you craft it) for an hour of auto-stabilize and 50% chance each round to end bleed effects...

Scarab Sages

Older thread for much the same advice...
Equipment to buy as Alchemist..

Scarab Sages

been doing this sort of thing for years...

Mostly I play in PFS, so I don't really get much time to explain how they work (detracts from Judge Briefing time), so I've come up with this method as it's fast and helps me keep my inventory strait.

I (with several of my alchemist PCs) hand out business cards with a list of items on them, with spots to check off the items as they are used. Each item is detailed on the card, 5 or 6 items per card. Players that game with me have started calling them "party favors". Players give me the card back at games end and I have a list of what got used.

Just before starting a "crawl", I'll instruct everyone to pull the med pack (not the grenade pack, or the other cards) and "drink the first three, and smear the last two over your body." This leads to the expected comments about "lube" and "oiling up" etc. (Anti-toxin, Anti-plague, Sooth Syrup, Alchemical Grease, Vermin Repellent).

But every now and again, it means I get to point out in game, in character "hay T.S., did you count the +5 alchemical bonus on that save?"... Sometimes it saves lives...

And I get to call everyone by the same first name..."T.S., for Test Subject"

;-)

Scarab Sages 5/5

RealAlchemy wrote:
CigarPete wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Davor Firetusk wrote:
Yes though it is a strong trade-off to do all those feats by then. You can go very Nova, but will very quickly run out of bombs.
Something i don't see alchemists doing nearly enough is since you have point blank precise rapid shot anyway is doing archery on the mooks to save bombs for novaing the wizard.
Alchemists only get prof with simple weapons, so would either need to invest a feat or take the Grenadier archetype to give proficiency with Long bow.
Or be an elf, of course.

not that an elf with a bonus to INT and DEX would make a good Alchemist...

Scarab Sages 5/5

just want to be sure you get the prices correct... and it sounds like maybe you're still shorting yourself.

Unless the rules are different from an Alchemist crafting items, you would craft items at 1/3 the cost, which I would say is a 2/3 discount.

So if you craft 300 gp in items (poisons?) it would cost your PC 100gp to make them.

Or maybe you are doing it correctly, but I was not understanding your statement about "1/3 discount"...

Scarab Sages 5/5

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
nosig wrote:


Shaudius, you are causing me to agree with BNW - and I HATE doing that. I'm going to have to go take a shower now just to feel good about myself again, and get rid of the "wet wolf aroma" hanging around...
My nose is 10,000 times better than yours but you get to tell me what smells good. The universe is weird...

There's good smells and then there's good taste...

oops!:
dropped a flask of
Noxious aromatic (flask) Source Animal Archive pg. 13
Price 15 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Category Alchemical Weapons
Description
This glass container of foul-smelling oil shatters easily upon impact. You can throw a vial of noxious aromatic as a splash weapon with a range increment of 10 feet. If a creature with the scent sense is standing in the square of impact, it must succeed at a DC 14 Fortitude save or be nauseated for 1d4+1 rounds. Any creature with scent in an adjacent square must succeed at a DC 12 Fortitude save or be sickened for 1 round. Creatures without the scent ability are not affected by noxious aromatic.

did you "catch" that?

Scarab Sages

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I fear that this post is going to violate the "ground rules" of this thread. It is going to point out that not all cultures in the game view Undead as always Evil... just something to think about.

Scarab Sages Faction trait (and before that it was Osirion, from Season Zero all the way thru Season nine...)
Attuned to the Ancestors - Source PFS Guide to Organized Play 6.0 pg. 16 (and older editions of the Guide)
You were raised to believe that undead are nothing to fear—they are simply the unliving remnants of your honored ancestors. Once per day, you can surround yourself with an aura of unlife. Unintelligent undead ignore you unless you take action against them, per hide from undead. The protection lasts 1 round for every two character levels you possess (with a minimum of 1 round). If you take any offensive action against any undead, this effect immediately ends. This is a supernatural ability.

wow... I guess that's why we got rid of Scarab Sages... they were actually the EVIL faction, not Dark Archive!

So, from day one, the Osirion faction seemed to indicate that Osirion culture often felt "that undead are nothing to fear—they are simply the unliving remnants of your honored ancestors." and that if you didn't attack them, they wouldn't attack you.

But they are listed as having an Evil alignment! So they must always do Evil things and so are always Evil!

Wait... Orcs are listed as having an Evil alignment.
Orc warrior 1 - CE Medium humanoid
so "...they are listed as having an Evil alignment! So they must always do Evil things and so are always Evil!"

Kobolds - "Kobold warrior 1 - LE Small humanoid (reptilian)"
Mites - "LE Small fey"
Morlock - "CE Medium monstrous humanoid"
etc.

We are willing to give the other (living) races the benefit of the POSIBILITY that they are MAYBE not locked into doing evil things... but Skeletons (which have no write-up saying they do evil...) we assume they are going to do evil things (if given no orders) - and we justify this by saying they do evil things because they are evil. (and they are evil because they do evil things...).

Oh...
"because the designers said so".
Ok then. I guess that answers that.

Why are Undead Evil?
Because the campaign designers said so.
full stop.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Angel Hunter D wrote:
If you want to have fun with a syringe spear, infused skinsend extracts are the way to make it fun ;)

nah... that one is dismissable, it'll only keep them busy a round or two.

Now infused Detonates... those can be a real blast!

;-)

Scarab Sages

Hendelbolaf wrote:

On the question #3 about splash damage and critical hits with the alchemist’s bomb ability, just remember that if it is the alchemist’s bomb and he scores a critical hit that the splash damage is the minimum damage for that hit.

For example, a 3rd Level alchemist with an 18 intelligence and point-blank shot does 2d6+5 points of damage on a direct hit and 7 points of damage (reflex save for half) to those in the splash area.

If that same alchemist rolls a natural 20 to attack the foe and backs up the critical hit, the damage is now 3d6+10 (the extra dice of bonus damage is NOT increased on a critical hit per the rules under bomb for the alchemist class), so now the splash damage should be 13 points (reflex save for half) as the minimum damage of the direct hit has increased.

So, yes, you canNOT score a critical hit if you do not directly hit a target, but if you do hit a target and the attack is a critical hit, then the minimum damage of the resulting splash should be increased. At least that is how I understand it and there is nothing that I have seen so far that would go against that ruling.

This poses a couple issues then...

what about if the target of the attack is immune to Critical hits? Would the "minimum damage" then NOT change due to the Critical hit?

How about if the target is resistant to the damage? say it has Fire Resistance 5... would the splash damage be reduced, because the minimum damage done by the hit changed (was reduced by 5)?

Or if the Target is damaged MORE by fire, and takes 1.5 times the damage, would that effect the splash damage done?

And what about Point Blank Shot? does that modify the "Minimum Damage"? so using your example would it be (for 2d6+5+PBS) 8 points?

No, I think it would be best to just calculate the "Minimum damage" from what the weapon would do before any modifications due to circumstances of the individual attack are factored in.

Scarab Sages

INT is only added once to the damage done with splash weapons - so even if that weapon were to do 6d6 of damage it would only be 6d6+Int. (this is the rule in the Alchemist write-up).

Now, an Alchemist fire (which costs 20GP, {almost 7GP when crafted} something you got wrong in your OP) would do 1d6 Plus 1d6 the round after - in other words 2d6 spread over two rounds.... and an Alchemist would add in his INT bonus (for his Throw Anything Class feature) only once per splash weapon... so only with the first dice.

I guess you might have the damage added to the second dice - but then it wouldn't be added to the first... as it is added only once per weapon/target combination.

There is a Bomb Discovery that allows the INT to be added several times over a number of rounds....

Immolation Bomb*:
(Ultimate Combat): When the alchemist creates a bomb, he can choose to have its substance coat the direct target’s body, causing the bomb to deal its damage over time instead of all at once. The bomb’s effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to the number of damage dice the bomb would normally deal (for instance, a 5d6 bomb lasts for 5 rounds). When the bomb hits the direct target, the bomb deals 1d6 + the alchemist’s Intelligence modifier in damage, and those within the splash zone take damage equal to 1 + the alchemist’s Intelligence modifier. It repeats this damage against the direct target of the bomb each round the immolation bomb lasts, dealing the damage at the start of the alchemist’s turn. Splash damage is dealt again to any creature that is adjacent to the direct target when it takes damage from the immolation bomb. A creature taking damage from an immolation bomb’s direct hit can attempt to extinguish the flames as a full-round action that requires a Reflex save (DC = 10 + 1/2 the alchemist’s level + the alchemist’s Intelligent modifier). Because of the alchemical nature of this bomb, rolling on the ground does not grant a bonus on the saving throw, and dousing a creature with water does not stop it from burning. These bombs can be used underwater. An alchemist must be at least 3rd level before selecting this discovery.

but that is a special case, with special rules and only applies to Bombs, not to all splash weapons.

Hope that helps! OH! and welcome to the Wonderful World of Alchemy!

Scarab Sages

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I've surprised people with an Alchemist as Healer... Alchemist (Chirurgeon)... 12th level now...

I get Breath of Life as a 4th level Extract - which I put in poisoners gloves and can hand off to other PCs (like the Barbarian in the party).

It's something else to see the party barbarian charge across the battlefield and punch a Breath of Life into someone that just went down.

or if I'm close enough, I can punch a body with a BoL, and take my second attack to punch it again...."Clear!... AGAIN! CLEAR!"

makes a great RP event...

Then Healing Bombs can just get ... interesting. Not Channeling, but an AOE that heals living creatures and hurts undead and does both AT THE SAME TIME...

Plus all the other things Alchemists do...

I also stack it with Crypt Braker Archetype, so I cover the Trapfinding aspects like a Rogue too...

Scarab Sages

Me? I'd play some flavor of Alchemist.

If there is no "Face" PC in the party, I might think of playing Bard... maybe.

Scarab Sages

I always hate it when someone comes onto one of my question threads and posts "you should do this instead..." ... and now I'm going to do it myself.

Sorry. I missed my save and couldn't control myself....

For a 6th level Discovery? I think I would forgo a bomb discovery and go with "Wings". The ability to fly 6 times a day is just (one minute durations) without having to spend a standard action to activate it... wow...

Otherwise, I would say either (Discovery – Explosive Bomb) or (Discovery – Concussive Bombs).

Did you take the feat Splash Weapon Mastery?

In a home game, where you can talk it over with the GM, Discovery – Healing Bomb can be a lot of fun... esp. if you have Infusions.

Scarab Sages

MerlinCross wrote:

Oh one other thing to pick up as part of your kit. Iron vials.

Yes yes they weigh pound each but get them. Get a few. Keep your best liquids in them unles they are used elsewhere(like in wounderous items). Why? Because sooner or later you'll have to take a fall, get hit with a shockwave of some kind, or eat some Shatter effects. These babies can handle that level of risk/wear and tear.

Seriously there needs to be a jingle about this.

In PFS, in nine seasons of play, I have never had a problem with glass vials. Not to say it will never happen... but it feels kind of like when they introduced Potion Sponges... it wasn't an issue until you had the thing to fix it, then everyone had to have the new gimmick to fix something that wasn't a problem before the fix was published in a new splat book...

You know, I have been hit with a heat metal spell before... does it hurt a potion to boil it? In a sealed container? Just wondering.... Hey! I know, we can install a "Toasters Patented Potion Pressure Relief Valve" on all your Iron Vials for a low-low price of 20 gp each... and we'll throw in a Anti-Rust Coating free of charge too (gives a save vs. rusting attacks). Wouldn't want any of those things to burst on you when they are heated! Avoid the damage from scalding liquids and metal fragments... ;)

Scarab Sages

DoubleBubble wrote:
The Toaster wrote:
DoubleBubble wrote:
Atalius wrote:
Yes. At low levels is where Shield would be used where he is now. Later on when he can afford his enchanted buckler he will certainly get one. But I think the Headband of INT will come first.

355gp for a darkwood buckler that gives you +1 when 'shield' extract can not. If you position yourself well most the time, you can even invest in a tower shield, as long as you don't let the armor penalty gets in the way when you use dex or str skills. It would work because you lose dex to AC when surprised. However, buckler is the best bet because like The Toaster asked before, you do want to be able to do stuff. Whole point of having a buckler is to be better protected from the unexpected while doing normal things. Like a ring of protection, always there. Even if you use both hands all the time, a buckler would do half the job that ring of protection +1 does with less than half the price. It is very important that we face this instead of keep falling into the cliche of casters have low AC in surprise round.

One thing I may add is that, if someone holding a shield or a buckler, and the others don't. Who would you hit first? I personally would hit someone with no form of protections over the other. Doesn't matter how powerful you are, you can do a thing one I stab you in the face. The point of ambush is to quickly end enemies by surprise. If one is smart enough to set ambush, he must be smart enough to choose target.

I am confused with part of your post here...

where are you getting the price for a "Darkwood Buckler"? If you mean the Light Shield listed in the CRB as a "Darkwood Buckler", it's price is listed as 203gp, and it's a Light Shield - not an actual Buckler.

** spoiler omitted **...

Now I checked, you are correct. Can't use darkwood for buckler. Still, the fact you can be better protected while having a buckler without forgo the freedom to interact with your surrounding is too good to pass. Tactic wise, you lose nothing but only gain options. It's like having wand scrolls and potions. Doesn't take up a slot, does take away your action. You can only gain options.

You are being very selective in your "advantages/disadvantages" observations here. Much of this is dependent on the Judge/PC/Campaign - what works and doesn't work well for the player/players in the game.

* Use of a Buckler would effect any weapon used with that hand.

* It has weight, and will reduce what a person can carry before being encumbered.

* It could effect NPC reactions to your PC ("Just why are you wearing a buckler to have a drink with the Captain of the City Watch?"). It could attract unwanted attention during combat (being the target of such spells as heat metal and burning disarm will be no fun with something you need to unstrap to drop, or the attention of a rust monster. Heck, sometimes the Monsters might even want to attack the "most heavily armored target" and you would win that prize for being the only PC in sight with a shield).

As an Alchemist (who doesn't suffer from most of the down sides of a buckler), is it better to have a (+1) shield bonus than not? Yeah, I (personally) think so. But then, I also think that having a (+2) shield bonus from a Darkwood shield is even better (one could even say twice as good), and the downside is not a problem (in game effects are very minor. Yeah - the shield user can't use a two handed weapon or dual weld weapons... but then an alchemist normally doesn't do those anyway, so it's not a issue). IMHO. And the Darkwood shield is cheaper than a Mithril buckler. (though you really only need a MW buckler).

Scarab Sages

DoubleBubble wrote:
Atalius wrote:
Yes. At low levels is where Shield would be used where he is now. Later on when he can afford his enchanted buckler he will certainly get one. But I think the Headband of INT will come first.

355gp for a darkwood buckler that gives you +1 when 'shield' extract can not. If you position yourself well most the time, you can even invest in a tower shield, as long as you don't let the armor penalty gets in the way when you use dex or str skills. It would work because you lose dex to AC when surprised. However, buckler is the best bet because like The Toaster asked before, you do want to be able to do stuff. Whole point of having a buckler is to be better protected from the unexpected while doing normal things. Like a ring of protection, always there. Even if you use both hands all the time, a buckler would do half the job that ring of protection +1 does with less than half the price. It is very important that we face this instead of keep falling into the cliche of casters have low AC in surprise round.

One thing I may add is that, if someone holding a shield or a buckler, and the others don't. Who would you hit first? I personally would hit someone with no form of protections over the other. Doesn't matter how powerful you are, you can do a thing one I stab you in the face. The point of ambush is to quickly end enemies by surprise. If one is smart enough to set ambush, he must be smart enough to choose target.

I am confused with part of your post here...

where are you getting the price for a "Darkwood Buckler"? If you mean the Light Shield listed in the CRB as a "Darkwood Buckler", it's price is listed as 203gp, and it's a Light Shield - not an actual Buckler.

Darkwood Buckler from the PRD:

Darkwood Buckler

Aura no aura (nonmagical); CL —

Slot shield; Price 203 gp; Weight 2.5 lbs.

Description

This nonmagical light wooden shield is made out of darkwood. It has no enhancement bonus, but its construction material makes it lighter than a normal wooden shield. It has no armor check penalty.

Realizing that the "Darkwood Buckler" listed in the CRB is actually a Light Shield... because a buckler is made of metal and can't be crafted from Darkwood?

Buckler from the CRB:
Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler.

so, why not just use a Masterwork Buckler? Cost on that would be 155gp, right? and Masterwork would remove the -1 ACP...

Cost for a Mithral Buckler would be 1005gp, and would remove the Arcane Spell Failure as well, but that's not really a concern for an Alchemist... so you can just go with the cheaper Masterwork Buckler.

I still prefer the Darkwood heavy shield though. 257gp. gives me a +2 to AC (normal and Flatfooted, not to Touch), and as I am a Bomb-Throwing Alchemist, I only need one hand free to throw bombs (or other alchemical splash weapons). A spiked gauntlet means I threaten, so I can provide a flank, but mostly I just throw ...

the short term buff extract that I would use if I had a free Standard action before combat to buff would be reduce person. With the DEX bump it gives it's like getting +2 on your AC (normal and touch, but only +1 Size to flatfooted AC) - and it gives a +2 to hit with thrown items (like bombs). The +4 size bonus to Stealth is kind of kewl too, (with the DEX bump it is sort of +5 to Stealth).

Scarab Sages

DoubleBubble wrote:
Atalius wrote:
How much does that +6 shield cost? And does it help at all against incorporeal touch attacks like the Shield? Certainly he would be using Shield just before entering a fight so the standard action would not be an issue. At his level couldn't he benefit from Shield until at least the middle levels around 8 or so.

Like The Toaster said, you will most likely never get it off. A standard action is HUGE! Most the time, you need that +1< AC for when you are flat footed, which is when you have to lowest AC. That is when you can't use extract, that is when you can't do anything.

On the other hand, shield extract only works if you have the standard action to pre buff. And if you have good teamwork, tactics or just common sense in combat, you won't need it most the time. You only need it when you have time to pre buff. If you don't have the time, you don't need it. You can do something more efficient.

When you are aware that you are going to fight, everything is easier. But then it is unexpected, that's when you need to be prepared. A buckler give that preparedness that shield extract doesn't offer. You can't expect to have time to pre buff most of your fight. The price is steep, but life saving.

Just wondering...

Why buckler over Darkwood Heavy Shield?

Scarab Sages

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Atalius wrote:
How much does that +6 shield cost? And does it help at all against incorporeal touch attacks like the Shield? Certainly he would be using Shield just before entering a fight so the standard action would not be an issue. At his level couldn't he benefit from Shield until at least the middle levels around 8 or so.

I run a number of Alchemists (5 so far I think?) in PFS - my highest is 12th level now. I always put shield in my list early (by 2nd level at least) and... I have almost never gotten one off in combat. I have started handing them out as Infusions to the 2HW fighter types and other shieldless Martial characters. And I have a Barbarian/Alchemist (5th level total so far) who has gotten to use it once in combat - but mostly its a question of:

a) Damage bad guys
or
b) put up Shield...

and I almost always go with a)

I have picked up a Darkwood heavy shield on several of my Alchemists... the +2 to AC is nice. And upping the AC enchantment is really kind of cheep (+5 total is 9,257gp, a +4 is 4,257gp., a +3 is 1,257gp.) and it's ALWAYS up.

Hybridization Funnel is nice - except at a PFS table it has to much YMMV for my taste. Takes 10 to 20 minutes to work out how it works with each judge I encounter, and every one of them is different (at least 5 different ways of how it works). Plus the high Craft Alchemy needed to use it...yeah, to much hassle.

Discerning Wayfinder is very-very nice to have. SOME way to get detect magic, so with your high Spellcraft you can ID magic items.

Acid flashes early on. Splash weapons don't give a Reflex save for half like your bombs do, so at 1st-2nd level they often do more damage. And making them is cheap.

Party Favors:
with several of my alchemist PCs I hand out business cards with a list of items on them, with spots to check off the items as they are used. Players that game with me have started calling them "party favors". Players will use the items in game and check off the items as used, then give me them back at games end and I have a list of what got used. Very fast and simple for tracking items usage.

So, just before starting a "crawl", I'll instruct everyone to pull the med pack I gave them (not the grenade pack, the other card) and "drink the first three, and smear the last two over your body." This leads to the expected comments about "lube" and "oiling up" etc. ("first three" would be Anti-toxin, Anti-Plague, and Still-gut or Sooth Syrup. the "the last two" would be Vermin Repellent and Alchemical Grease).

But every now and again, it means I get to point out "hay T.S., did you count the +5 alchemical bonus on that save?"... Sometimes it saves lives...

And I get to call everyone by the same first name..."T.S., for Test Subject"

;-)

with a higher level Alchemist I REALLY like Poisoners gloves. A fun gimmick I use them for is Infusions of Detonate... yeah. Remember to drink a resist energy before using this!

I often run (Chirurgeon) Archetypes - so that I get breath of life as a 4th level infusion. Put those in a set of Poisoners gloves and hand one glove to two different PCs. It's something else to see the party barbarian charge across the battlefield and punch a Breath of Life into someone that just went down.

Barbarian: "So, what do I need to hit the prone, DEX zero, body? with my +2 from the charge?"

Scarab Sages

I've always liked Extracts of detonate - but then I would deliver them with Poisoners Gloves...

Scarab Sages

this doesn't extend the range of an Alchemist Bomb.

Alchemist Bomb range is = 20'

Flask Thrower range is = 20'

so... unless it's enchanted with "distance" or something...

Scarab Sages

...and now to add another wrinkle in the fabric...

How does the feat:

Measured Response:
(Combat)
Source Inner Sea Gods pg. 213, Faiths of Balance pg. 24
You believe that a conservative but consistent response guarantees success.

Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1, worshiper of Abadar.

Benefit: When you hit an opponent with a melee or ranged weapon attack, you may choose to deal average damage (rounded down), as if you had rolled exactly the average amount on the damage die or dice. You add your damage bonuses and penalties as normal.

interact (if at all) with the normal splash damage of an Alchemists bomb?

"The minimum damage of that is (minimum of damage die) + intelligence modifier...".

so, with this feat, a 3rd level alchemist would do a minimum (and maximum) of 7 +INT with a bomb. Does his splash damage equal 7+INT?

edit: unless an Alchemists Bomb ISN'T a "ranged weapon attack"...

Scarab Sages

has everyone not noticed what the party is missing?

Skills - particularly Disable Device. Maybe also Stealth.

I'd suggest CryptBreaker Alchemist, maybe Chirurgeon/CryptBreaker to get some back-up healing (ultimately Breath of Life around 10th level). It get's Trapfinding like the Trapbraker (and get's it at 1st level, where Trapbraker get's it at 2nd), it just doesn't throw bombs at traps...

Racially, if this were in PFS, I'd suggest Wayang - or Ratfolk if it's available. Or just fall back to Elf (or Tiefling). But a small race with darkvision would be good, and all three of those races are +2 Int, +2 Dex which makes a good alchemist. (if you go Tiefling, but sure to pick up Prehensile tail so you can draw Splash Weapons more easily).

Scarab Sages

Nefreet wrote:

Level 1, really.

+1 Rank
+2 Tool
+3 Class Skill
+4 Int of 18
+5 Crafter's Fortune

Another +2 if you're Half-elf. Another +1 if you're an Alchemist.

Taking 10 is allowed, unless you're in the middle of combat.

You should also ask your GM before the Adventure begins. If you don't like the answer you receive, don't use the item for that Adventure.

Crafters Fortune would require one of the two extracts a day that the 1st level Alchemist has - so at most 2 of these items could be created per day.

The +1 you list above as "+1 if you're an Alchemist" - is this the bonus from "When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, an alchemist gains a competence bonus equal to his class level on the Craft (alchemy) check."? is so, it would not apply as the Alchemist is not creating an alchemical item, he is mixing two he has already created (or paid full price for). This could be made up for by increasing the INT to 20 (which would also give another Extract a day for Crafters Fortune upping the total items available to three). Or it could be made up for with a Trait... perhaps? Not sure if there is one available to a half elf though...

The tool bonus would only be available for a Lab right? so 200 gp and 40 lbs makes it hard for a 1st level to come up with... but possible (not likely on adventure though...).

so... with an investment of 200 GP and the Race (Half Elf) of the alchemist, as well as investing in a 20 INT, it becomes possible at 1st level to create 2 (3?) of these items a day. But then we have entered the realm of "...hindering your entire character build and making your PC unplayable..." if the judge rules against the items use in some way.

Still, as the character advances in level, it becomes more possible to create these items. By 4th level one might be able to create 4 or 5 a day - with the investment of a majority of the alchemists daily extracts and a good chunk of gold...

edit: and this item is a magic item and costs 200gp, so ... a 1st level guy would have to have 5 PP to even buy it unless it is available on a CR... so effectively only available after no less than 3 scenarios (perhaps more)... so not available until a PC is 2nd level anyway.

Scarab Sages

Nefreet wrote:
The Toaster wrote:
I have encountered all the options listed above with PFS judges at least once - including having the damage type being determined by judges whim which changed from attack to attack.

That's not a fault of PFS. That's simply variations in interpretation. You're seeing the same thing in this thread. PFS considers this to be an acceptable level of table variation. Whether the extra 1 point of damage gets past resistance shouldn't be hindering your entire character build and making your PC unplayable.

It's more one of those things where if GM A rules that it's split evenly, and GM B rules that it's your choice, you go "Cool, thanks!" and move on.

I'm sorry to have left you with the impression that this issue was "...hindering your entire character build and making your PC unplayable...". It doesn't. It does make this ITEM almost unplayable, as the effects it generates are very random and prone to causing upset in judges. It is so poorly written as to be effectively unusable in PFS. Kind of like having a sword that does either 1d8, 1d6 or 3d4 Hit Points of Piercing or Slashing damage, depending on the judges whim of the moment. It is in fact much easier to just not bother with the item.

It takes a lot of investment to use requiring
1) a DC25 Craft Alchemy skill check per vial produced,
2) cost of the substances, (which is spent even if the item is not used, see #4 below)
3) 10 minutes per check (one check per item)
4) and has a shelf life of one day

Resulting in effectively requiring an Alchemist of about 5th level to spend an hour to get 6 items that do 1 dice less damage than his bombs, and have half the range... and that don't scale up as he increases in level. The items produced ARE better than a normal splash weapon, doing 1d6 more damage (as long as there is no Energy Resistances involved and as long as additional damage is not split between energy types done, rounding down).

(edit: a note on the level of the Alchemist using it. It requires an Alchemist to make a DC25 (DC 30 if using Holy Water) to mix the liquids. This means they would need to have a +15 if Take 10 is allowed... +5 for INT of 20, +5 for ranks, +3 class skill, +2 for alchemist lab and a 5th level Alchemist with a 20 INT could do it... if he had an Alchemy Lab on hand.)

Scarab Sages

Nefreet wrote:

It's one item. You only add Int once.

Ability Modifiers don't stack unless explicitly stated.

and so, when you hit it with the one item and add in the INT from the Alchemist... what type of damage does the additional damage modifiers do?

Say the mixture was Fire and Acid damage (my usual mix), but the creature has Acid immunity and Fire Resistance 5. The alchemist rolls damage dice amounting to:

1d6 Fire 3,
1d6 Acid 6,
and has an INT of 16 so does +3 extra points.

if the +3 is added to the fire damage he does 6 fire, 6 acid and 1 point goes thru.

If the +3 is added to the acid damage he does 3 fire, 9 acid and 0 goes thru.

if the +3 is split evenly between each of the two damage types he does 4 fire, and 7 acid and 1 point is lost (1.5 rounds down on each damage type) and he does 0 damage.

if the +3 is split proportionally between the two damage types he does 4 fire and 8 acid and he again does 0 damage.

Adding in a +1 for Point Blank shot MIGHT round up the 1.5s to 2.0s (depends on the judge, it could be treated as 0.5 of each type which rounds down again to zero so... 1 point non-lethal? of each type?).

Or perhaps the Alchemist can assign his bonus damage as he wishes? Or is it determined by the judge?

I have encountered all the options listed above with PFS judges at least once - including having the damage type being determined by judges whim which changed from attack to attack.

Scarab Sages

sorry - The Toaster is an Alchemist, so he adds his INT to splash weapon damage... and so there is the question of does he add it once or twice? "...when thrown as a splash weapon, the mixture has the effects of both component substances and creatures are affected as if hit by both. "

Scarab Sages

This is something that requires an answer from the GM... so in PFS it is very much subject to YMMV.

I could give you my answer, but - heck - it only applies when I'm the judge at your PFS table.

some of the questions the judge would need to address....

1) do you add the +1 to damage from Point Blank Shot more than once? what damage time does it do if one item is acid and the other fire?

2) do you add in the INT bonus more than once?

3) When a CRIT is rolled, what damage is doubled?

4) Can it be deflected with Deflect Arrows? Both parts, or only one? (does it count as two items or only one for things that effect one attack?)

and I am sure there are many others...

Scarab Sages

Different play styles I think.

the order I normally select feats for my Alchemists would be

Splash Weapon Mastery, Percise Bombs, Point Blank Shot, Percise Shot....

SWM for all the wonderful things it does (range, extra sq. of damage, adjust miss locations)

Percise Bombs so I can splash around friends (and adjust the shape of my splash areas)

PBS to get Percise Shot.... but by then I'm into 7th level and I begin to loose interest in my PCs about then.

And Percise Shot to remove penility before I take Fast Bombs/Rapid Shot...

But like I said, different play styles...

Oh! And I normally do take the Trait Warrior of Old to bump the INIT by 2.

(I do often take Cryptbraker or Trapbreaker Archtype so I am often the primary trap monkey...)

The Toaster was my FIRST Alchemist - with my latest ones I actually do cut the DEX back some - mainly to boost INT. But that's another story....

Scarab Sages

Some of the reasons to boost my DEX... in order of importance (just my opinion)

A) INIT - a desire to go first. I want to get in the first shot. - or maybe the first "RUN AWAY"! lol.

B) AC - a better DEX makes my AC better [not my Flat Footed AC, but see (A) above]

C) I've got a rank in Disable Device, and Slight of Hand - which are a DEX skills, so ... yeah, better skills. (Acrobatics? Stealth? reduce person gives a big boost to Stealth)

D) Shooting into a Melee. Target's AC goes up for Cover (+4) and without Percise Shot I suffer a -4... so my +9 may often translate to a +1.

(The 28 DEX above was a typo. It should have been a 26 (+8) ... my bad, sorry! The belt I got at 4th/5th level was a +2 Dex belt, not a +4)

Scarab Sages

graystone wrote:
The Toaster wrote:
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Have you considered mithril parade armor? It seems like it would solve a lot of your uncertainty. ^_^

I'm sorry, I must be discombobulated after glancing at that confusing political thread that just popped up - what would the advantage of parade armor be other than a circumstantial skill bonus?

graystone wrote:

As to cost... SO? By the time you have to worry about max dex of +8, the extra 1000gp is money well spent.

Am I to understand that you can tack these new augmentations on AFTER the suit's already been made/purchased? That would make it all easier....

I actually hit the +8 DEX kind of early...

Elf with a 20, Alchemist DEX Mutagen up's it to 24, Reduce Person extract adds a size bump to the DEX and I'm at the +8 at 1st level... (and a +9 to hit with my bombs!)

LOL I wasn't counting minute buffs as a valid reason for needing +8. IMO, hitting max dex for 1 min/day isn't something "you have to worry about".

The Mutagen is 10 min per level, and I often start the combat with a Reduce Person extract (I got 3 extracts at 1st level... but I could also just use a wand of it if it comes to that). Not that the Armor selection was a problem, it didn't get real bad until about 5th level when my Mutagen was lasting almost an hour and I had picked up a Belt of DEX... at that point 1000 gp is still a lot of money (but doable) and my DEX is 28 before I drink/cast the Reduce Person... but by then it is for any combat where I can get a round to buff.

Scarab Sages

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Have you considered mithril parade armor? It seems like it would solve a lot of your uncertainty. ^_^

I'm sorry, I must be discombobulated after glancing at that confusing political thread that just popped up - what would the advantage of parade armor be other than a circumstantial skill bonus?

graystone wrote:

As to cost... SO? By the time you have to worry about max dex of +8, the extra 1000gp is money well spent.

Am I to understand that you can tack these new augmentations on AFTER the suit's already been made/purchased? That would make it all easier....

I actually hit the +8 DEX kind of early...

Elf with a 20, Alchemist DEX Mutagen up's it to 24, Reduce Person extract adds a size bump to the DEX and I'm at the +8 at 1st level... (and a +9 to hit with my bombs!)

Scarab Sages 5/5

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Amanda Plageman wrote:
The Toaster wrote:
they hand out business cards with a list of alchemical items created on them, with spots to check off the items as they are used. Players that game with me have started calling them "party favors". Players give me the cards back at games end and I have a list of what items got used.
That is an amazing idea. I am *so* stealing that.

Welcome! PM me if you want more details...

I actually have several different kinds (but then I have a bunch of Alchemist PCs - and one Investigator).

Scarab Sages 5/5

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pH unbalanced wrote:

I suspect that the gp cost of onyx for a necromancer creating undead for rp funsies is similar to the gp cost for a paladin getting an atonement for rp funsies. And fairly similar to the amount of gp my Sovereign Court character spends on fancy clothes for rp funsies.

If the expense is entirely player motivated, with no mechanical benefit or campaign requirement...IMO that's just on the player.

agreed!

It would be like the money several of my alchemist PCs burn when they hand out business cards with a list of alchemical items created on them, with spots to check off the items as they are used. Players that game with me have started calling them "party favors". Players give me the cards back at games end and I have a list of what items got used.

Just before starting a "crawl", I'll instruct everyone to pull the med pack (not the grenade pack, the other card) and "drink the first three, and smear the last two over your body." This leads to the expected comments about "lube" and "oiling up" etc. Lots of RP fun!

And every now and again, it means I get to point out "hay T.S., did you count the +5 alchemical bonus on that save?"... Sometimes it saves lives...

And I get to call everyone by the same first name..."T.S., for Test Subject"

Scarab Sages

blashimov wrote:
I think fighter isn't worth it to sacrifice alchemist abilities. Especially as a bomber who is getting dex anyway. In fact, I don't even think precise shot is necessary, as you're targeting touch. You can always aim for the square, and deal very similar damage.

(bolding mine) - this is not actually correct. It is a common error though. You can target an grid Intersection or a creature. Not a square.

if you target an grid intersection, the bomb/splash weapon only effects (with a splash) 4 squares. and a miss will move to other intersections. An intersection is considered AC 5 to hit (so it's real easy to hit touch AC 5).

Otherwise your post is a good point. I've seen several bombers not bother with precise shot until much later, and instead rely on throwing acid flasks at intersections - and splash their target (no reflex save for half vs. splash weapon damage like there is for bomb splash damage).

Scarab Sages

FEATS:
A) Brew Potion
A) Throw Anything
1) Splash Weapon Mastery – (from A.A.)
3) Point Blank Shot
5) Precise Shot

Special Abilities
A1) Bombs
A2) Discovery – Explosive Bomb or Infusion
A2) Poison Use.
A3) Swift Alchemy
A4) Discovery – Precise Bombs
A5) Poison Resistance +4
A6) Discovery – Concussive Bombs or Infusion

Scarab Sages

CryptBreaker or Chirurgeon/CryptBreaker
Alchemist.

(Races?) Most likely Elf, or Tiefling or ... Ratfolk or Wayang - something with a +2 to Dex and Int. - max the INT to 20 and push the DEX to 16.

So stats would be something like:

Strength 10
Dexterity 16
Constitution 10
Intelligence 28
Wisdom 10
Charisma 7

This get's you:

- The ability to use Healing Wands (and some limited self healing)

- Trapfinding,

- Alchemical items crafted at 1/3 cost,

- AOO damage from both your bombs and from Splash Weapons (that you an make). (Splash damage would be 6 HP).

- Great ranged Combat ability.

and lots of fun stuff.

Scarab Sages

Talonhawke wrote:
The Toaster wrote:
Talonhawke wrote:
Tweedle-Dum wrote:

actually, the "DC0 bear 'trap' on a table" is not noticed - as long as the GM does not mention it. If it is not mentioned by the GM, it's not noticed unless you ask the GM what's on the table and/or he includes it in the "more in-depth" room description.

Judge: "The inside of the old trappers shack is dusty, gloomy and filled with odd junk. A rickety table and chair are against the east wall, a moth-eaten rug covers an area in front of a fireplace on the north wall and a moldering bed is on the west. You are in the only door, which is in the south wall."

Player: "I'll take a moment from the doorway to look around more. Anything of note in the room? What junk is on the table? anything hanging on the wall, under the bed?"

Judge: "What's your Perception check?"

Player: "Taking 10, with my MW tool, I get a 30"

Judge: "Wow! that good!? You can see an oil lamp, some eating utensils and a rusty bear trap are on the table. Under the bed is a closed chest that you can't really see into, and the most important note is what looks to be a trap door under the rug. In fact, with that high a result, you can also tell that the floor around the trap door under the rug has been rigged to collapse - it's a Pit Trap."

Bolded the relevant part no you don't know this you didn't check that 10x10 area particularly.

sigh... the shack is 10x10. Does that help?

or maybe - with this GM - the phrase "I'll take a moment from the doorway to look around more." means "I will now perform a Perception check on each 10'x10' area (or potion thereof or lesser area if required), taking 10 and using my Perception MW tool, looking especially for hidden or concealed compartments/traps/creatures/treasure/doors/peep-holes/plot hooks. If I find/detect/perceive anything else you think I should know about please tell me?"

But I guess we COULD be playing a "Mother May I?" game and I'll write out the above statement and

...

clearly we are not talking the same language...

"But remember 10x10 is the max"...
I did say - "...perform a Perception check on each 10'x10' area..."

"...and clutter might reduce you maximum searchable area...."
I did say - "...or lesser area if required..."

so the following statement..."But if it's bigger then even if the trap is in the 10x10 your standing in your glance around the shack misses it since you weren't limiting the search area. "
doesn't make sense.
- If it is bigger, then I will perform more perception checks,
- If it is in the area where I am standing, it has already been triggered, but yeah, I didn't say I was checking the area where my PC was, I said I was checking in the shack "from the doorway " - by which I meant "before entering". and my PC is in a 5'x5' area, not a 10'x10'. I'm medium sized (sometimes small, it increases my Disable Device to be small).
- the statement "...your glance around the shack misses it since you weren't limiting the search area." make no sense to me, as I state IWAS limiting them (as needed, under the control of the GM).

Scarab Sages

Talonhawke wrote:
Tweedle-Dum wrote:

actually, the "DC0 bear 'trap' on a table" is not noticed - as long as the GM does not mention it. If it is not mentioned by the GM, it's not noticed unless you ask the GM what's on the table and/or he includes it in the "more in-depth" room description.

Judge: "The inside of the old trappers shack is dusty, gloomy and filled with odd junk. A rickety table and chair are against the east wall, a moth-eaten rug covers an area in front of a fireplace on the north wall and a moldering bed is on the west. You are in the only door, which is in the south wall."

Player: "I'll take a moment from the doorway to look around more. Anything of note in the room? What junk is on the table? anything hanging on the wall, under the bed?"

Judge: "What's your Perception check?"

Player: "Taking 10, with my MW tool, I get a 30"

Judge: "Wow! that good!? You can see an oil lamp, some eating utensils and a rusty bear trap are on the table. Under the bed is a closed chest that you can't really see into, and the most important note is what looks to be a trap door under the rug. In fact, with that high a result, you can also tell that the floor around the trap door under the rug has been rigged to collapse - it's a Pit Trap."

Bolded the relevant part no you don't know this you didn't check that 10x10 area particularly.

sigh... the shack is 10x10. Does that help?

or maybe - with this GM - the phrase "I'll take a moment from the doorway to look around more." means "I will now perform a Perception check on each 10'x10' area (or potion thereof or lesser area if required), taking 10 and using my Perception MW tool, looking especially for hidden or concealed compartments/traps/creatures/treasure/doors/peep-holes/plot hooks. If I find/detect/perceive anything else you think I should know about please tell me?"

But I guess we COULD be playing a "Mother May I?" game and I'll write out the above statement and read it out at each doorway... if that is the way the GM wants to run the game.

Scarab Sages

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_Ozy_ wrote:
KingOfAnything wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
You just don't buy them because you view perception as bounded by normal human limits, no matter what the perception modifier is.
It's not a limit on perception that I'm arguing as justification for the rule. It's a limit on cognition. The difference between noticing a detail, and realizing it is an important detail. Even superman has blind spots (cognitively).

That 'limit on cognition' is something that does not exist in the Pathfinder universe as any penalty on perception skills or modifiers.

You just made it up.

So, once again, what's the DC to smell poison from 10' away?

"what's the DC to smell poison from 10' away?" hmm... I don't know.

Whatever the GM says it is? did he note it in his notes? This, like so many things, is in the control of the GM and I'll need to work out with them how to determine this. Or if I can even use that... maybe that poison is odorless? Unless I'm a Gnome or 1/2 Orc... or a red haired marmoset. All under the control of the GM.

What's the DC to tell from "obscure clues" (sound of more coins, "rich guy" perfume, gleam in his eye, whatever...) which of the Mooks in the party attacking me has the BBEs confidence? Which would be the best target for my dominate person? I want to control him and send him back to kill the BBE... so that we can follow him and finish the job when he fails. If I want this information, the GM will need to give it to me... I will have to ask for it. And (together) we'll work out what the DC is (if I can even hit that).

Scarab Sages

well... if you are looking for something totally different, and already have both a set of poisoner's gloves and the infusion discovery, and are a Gnome ('cause this is something I think a Gnome would do), you might think of detonate.

Especially with two attacks in a round....

Just be sure to have a Protection from energy for yourself... and maybe a good reflex save.

Scarab Sages

claudekennilol wrote:
So an alchemist walks into a bar...and the bar hits him so hard he's now unconscious. He has an extract of cure light wounds on him. I know that so I pour it down his throat. It's inert while I'm interacting with it because I'm not him. Once I'm done pouring it down his throat what happens? Does it work? Does it not work?

well.... first you take hold of his right hand, then you place the extract bottle in that hand and carefully maneuver the open end of the extract to his mouth and dribble it slowly in... hoping he doesn't drown.

;)

seriously though, I would think it works on him. just like if he were to pour it into your mouth - once in your PC it would be Inert and wouldn't work. ("this to shall pass").

this is another reason I'm a (Chirurgeon) archetype - that way all my Cure extracts are Infusions...

Scarab Sages

Sundakan wrote:
The Toaster wrote:
cattoy wrote:
zainale wrote:

snatch arrow + active bomb + being the target = auto hit with the bomb setting it off.

hitting with the bomb sets it off. missing and hitting the ground sets the bomb off. your bombs are magically unstable having your bomb hit someone's hand should also set it off.

my bombs land in soft mud causing my bomb to go off in the last game. it hurt the enemy's ally with splash dmg. if the bomb goes off in soft deep squishy mud it should go off when it slaps an enemy's palm when he catches it.

"An alchemist's bomb, like an extract, becomes inert if used or carried by anyone else."

If you catch an alchemist's bomb targeting you, it is now being carried by anyone else and becomes inert.

#1 this would be a GMs call,

#2 the bomb is not being "carried" by the monk. It is being re-directed.

On the other hand, I would point out that after the 1st bomb is re-directed, the Alchemist should have the option to stop throwing bombs. (again this is a GMs call, but is more likely to be excepted. Kind of like if the Alchemist is dropped by an AOO as he throws the first bomb - the rest of the attack would be interrupted and canceled...) He does NOT throw them simultaneously - they are thrown in series during his turn. If the 1st monk "interrupts" the alchemists full attack - the alchemist should have to option to STOP casting - or even re-target his bombs. So... the first bomb (and maybe the second) get's re-directed back to the alchemist, and all the others should get thrown at intersections beside the Monks.

The second Bomb probably hits the first Monk right in the face, out of spite. Deflect Arrows is only once per round.

oh, agreed!

But I have encountered posters on the board who state that once you say you are attacking in XXX pattern, no matter what, you aren't allowed to change it. Which I think is silly. If the circumstances changed between attack A and B, the player (or monster) should have to option to change actions.

Scarab Sages

cattoy wrote:
zainale wrote:

snatch arrow + active bomb + being the target = auto hit with the bomb setting it off.

hitting with the bomb sets it off. missing and hitting the ground sets the bomb off. your bombs are magically unstable having your bomb hit someone's hand should also set it off.

my bombs land in soft mud causing my bomb to go off in the last game. it hurt the enemy's ally with splash dmg. if the bomb goes off in soft deep squishy mud it should go off when it slaps an enemy's palm when he catches it.

"An alchemist's bomb, like an extract, becomes inert if used or carried by anyone else."

If you catch an alchemist's bomb targeting you, it is now being carried by anyone else and becomes inert.

#1 this would be a GMs call,

#2 the bomb is not being "carried" by the monk. It is being re-directed.

On the other hand, I would point out that after the 1st bomb is re-directed, the Alchemist should have the option to stop throwing bombs. (again this is a GMs call, but is more likely to be excepted. Kind of like if the Alchemist is dropped by an AOO as he throws the first bomb - the rest of the attack would be interrupted and canceled...) He does NOT throw them simultaneously - they are thrown in series during his turn. If the 1st monk "interrupts" the alchemists full attack - the alchemist should have to option to STOP casting - or even re-target his bombs. So... the first bomb (and maybe the second) get's re-directed back to the alchemist, and all the others should get thrown at intersections beside the Monks.

Scarab Sages

Fromper wrote:
Do you normally go with Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot on bomb specialists, or do you think they're unnecessary, given how easy it is to hit touch AC? As I said, I was planning to take them as my first two feats, but I'm not sure if they're necessary.

Normally (say 4 of 6) my Alchemists PCs have: SWM, then PBS, then Precise Shot... with Precise Bomb in there early as a discovery.

But I also push up my INT as high as I can, starting with a 20 to get that +5 on damage... and all the other benefits.

Scarab Sages

Fromper wrote:

I've got my own similar thread going for building a bomb throwing alchemist.

In this one, Splash Weapon Mastery is mentioned a few times, so I thought I'd ask here. I was assuming I'd just go with Point Blank Shot, Precise Bombs, and Precise Shot at levels 1, 2, and 3 to try and always hit and avoid splashing my teammates. Is SWM worth taking first? And does it apply to bombs as well as normal splash weapons? I don't have the wording in front of me right now.

I will often take Splash Weapon Mastery first - so yes, I consider it worth it.

Bombs are splash weapons, so yes, it applies to them (unless your GM says no, but that would be a really strange ruling IMHO).

Splash Weapon Mastery:
A.A. Pg.31 - When Throwing a splash weapon, you act as if you had the Far Shot feat. When you hit with a splash weapon, select one additional square adjacent to the splash area; Creatures in this area also take splash damage. When you miss with a splash weapon, you may adjust the miss direction on the grid by +1 or -1. This feat counts as Far Shot for the purpose of qualifying for other feats, but only in regard to splash weapons.

Scarab Sages

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BigNorseWolf wrote:

Also, infusions of resist (energy type i want to deal) go great on the front liners.

the funniest one is always an Infusion of Detonate in Poisoners gloves... Two of them for twice the fun! (be sure to do the Resist Energy yourself before using this...)

Scarab Sages

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Infusion infusion infusion. You can make good use of your extracts. Your party can make amazing use of your extracts. You're one of the few ways a two hander wielding barbarian can get shield on themselves. You can make not only a standard action enlarge person, but a standard action enlarge person they can use on their turn instead of wasting yours.

drat! BNW beat me to it! Arrrrgh!

Yeah - not my first choice of a Discovery (Precise Bombs would be first), but close to the top.

I have Splash Weapon Mastery (so I can shift the location of a "miss" slightly), Percise Bombs and a good dex. I regularly use Reduce Person (to increase DEX and to give another +1 to hit), but I still roll a "1" sometimes (seems to happen about 5% of the time!).

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