Gerard Nisroc's page

I'd expect a lower price if the players had to pay for the AP for the GM.

You bring up a consideration.

One curiosity... you're paying to play, not survive. Not play a particular character.

I think an interesting dynamic will be... when a pay-to-play character dies. What happens to that session.

How quickly could they possibly have another character ready and continue enjoying the session already paid for.

The mind wanders. Not saying it's bad or good, just a consideration.

I think it's interesting. And I'll apply the 80/20 rule to how it will end up.

Let's say hobby/paid.

Some go to the gym, some pay a trainer.

Some go on hikes or site seeing , some hire a guide.

I'm an IT guy so, it's about service level agreement (SLA).

Once you start paying you have a level of expectation.

I don't feel the two models - hobby & paid are mutually exclusive.

As to judging, it's how we get through life.

We just can't allow ourselves to judge instead of thinking... we judge while and after thinking.

@Gerard Nisroc if you think you can develop a full character in about 18 hours, feel free to give it a shot!

Most gracious. I can try, but might need to dovetail for story. I'll figure something out.

Possibly Rogue (Knife Master)/Swashbuckler or Paladin. Driver/Pilot.

Dropping out of school to help with the family business wasn't the end of the world... a modest but popular restaurant/cafe in Cairo wasn't a bad place to be.

Ah shucks, looks like I missed this fine recruitment. Maybe next time if Lady Luck is on my side!

Didn't take this as a rag on RP, I like RP... a lot. And, I was the fat kid, nerd, etc.

Just helping define and clearly understand the concept folks in the thread, mainly OP were after.

Personally, I like both types of games. For different reasons, obviously.

I do enjoy the tactical game for the converse of what you stated. I created a build that has advantages and disadvantages.

Want to see if we're clever enough to play to our advantages and help each other shine.

Enjoy both types and the rare game that stalled that fence.

Game on!

ps: and yes, if my character is waiting for someone to take a 5' step to a particular space and allow me to unleash 3 precision attacks and possibly end the encounter... but they wax poetically and don't take that step... I'm a bit annoyed.

mechanics are the "housekeeping" but, by all means, embellish as you wish.

Somewhat late, but yes... along with combat, puzzle and social would be skill challenge?

Basically anything a character can invest in and be better at.

Sounds like PFS without the excluded stuff. That's essentially how those are run and you catch whatever RP moments you can.

I was considering such a concept a while back. But starting from a board game perspective, like chess (or Axis & Allies).

Identify the obstacle and overcome as best you can, tactically.

Might work better if the presumption was all characters trusted, knew or knew of each other. That removes, "well my characters is thus, why would they go along with..."

Some might gripe this takes away full control or player agency, but then this may not be the game for those folks.

It would appeal if think to min-max'ers, but ultimately if the encounter/map isn't what you're built for and you're not somewhat rounded, you're less effective. Could your partners help, sure.

I'm a big fan of RP, but like it in short concise bursts for flavor. As opposed to were writing a novel together.

So, when you say 8 ranks is fluency in a language... You mean 36 skill points?

Effectively, you must be level 36 to become fluent in a language?

Also, of you could give a skill point cost for increasing a base skill and specializing, that would be great. I'm not clear on specializing cost.

===============
Thought I'd posted this, a week ago... LOL

Not from the poles, half way to the equator.

Perfectly human with Low-Light Vision and Darkvision. It makes him the perfect sentinel or outrider.

10/10/12/13/13/15
10/10/13/14/13/15, +1 Int (level 2) | +1 Dex (level 5)

45 skill points, 36 +1 (level 1), +2 (level 4) from Int?

3 Athletics 2 (+2)
3 Acrobatics 1 (+2)
6 Perception 3 (+4)
2 Investigation 1 (+2)
3 Speech 2 (+4)
4 Bows 2 (+2)
4 Light Blades 2 (+2)
6 Dodge 3 (+3)
3 Handle Animal 2 (+4)
1 Ride 1 (+1)
6 Stealth 3 (+3)
3 Survival 2 (+3)
1 Use Complex Device (+1)

Feats: Combat Expertise (level 3), Improved Feint (level 6)

Class: Rogue 1 (level 6)

Saves: F +0 | R +2 | W +1

Alignment: LG

ElbowtotheFace wrote:

Also, human's additional skill points is that still every level?

Yes. Keep in mind, skills don’t get more than one skillpoint per lvl.

So... humans get twice as many skill points? 1 + 1 for being human (every level) or just every third level like with the INT modifier?

ElbowtotheFace wrote:

So feats, classes, spells and stuff are from 3.5

Yes, or supposed to be anyway. Not sure where unchained rogue is coming from. Only one other player so I might allow the PF1 classes if everyone would prefer and there is good reason to like them.

Sorry, spazz'ed... guess a Rogue? Or are we going further back... Thief?

I get confused around that switch to Unearthed Arcana >>> Pathfinder era. And if that makes no sense, it proves my point :)

I’ve got a default starting direction I can drop you in, but if you have a preference for story modules or dungeon delving, etc...

DM's choice! Just not something that kills them right away.

This is what's I've got so far:

Not from the poles, half way to the equator.

Perfectly human with Low-Light Vision and Darkvision. It makes him the perfect sentinel or outrider.

10/10/12/13/13/15
10/10/13/14/13/15, +1 Int (level 2) | +1 Dex (level 5)

39 skill points, 36 +1 (level 1), +2 (level 4) from Int?

3 Athletics 2 (+2)
1 Acrobatics 1 (+1)
6 Perception 3 (+4)
1 Investigation 1 (+2)
3 Speech 2 (+4)
3 Bows 2 (+2)
3 Light Blades 2 (+2)
6 Dodge 3 (+3)
3 Handle Animal 2 (+4)
1 Ride 1 (+1)
6 Stealth 3 (+3)
3 Survival 2 (+3)

Feats: Combat Expertise (level 3), Improved Feint (level 6)

Class: Unchained Rogue 1 (level 6)

Saves: F +0 | R +2 | W +1

Alignment: LG

Well, things are getting themselves sorted out. Do you have your character ready yet, or am I being stupid and forgetting something?

No, it's me. Just need a couple of more days, I think.

No rush from my end, I was doing some of the point buy research you mentioned not having time for.

For about a week, I'm in a time zone that's not my own so, weird posting times for me.

After I calculated the point buy for my arrays, basically fell back asleep... Zzz.

We can pick up whenever you are ready.

Standard point-buy values are 25 (Elite) and 32.

Each stat begins at 8.

A stat of 9 costs 1 point.
A stat of 10 costs 2 points.
A stat of 11 costs 3 points.
A stat of 12 costs 4 points.
A stat of 13 costs 5 points.
A stat of 14 costs 6 points.

A stat of 15 costs 8 points.
A stat of 16 costs 10 points.

A stat of 17 costs 13 points.
A stat of 18 costs 16 points.

================================

Desired arrays:

PF Point Buy

05 pts: 09/10/11/11/12/12 (in 3.5, costs 17)
10 pts: 09/10/12/12/12/14 (in 3.5, costs 21)

15 pts: 10/10/12/13/13/15 (in 3.5, costs 26)

20 pts: 10/11/13/13/13/16 (in 3.5, costs 30)
25 pts: 10/12/13/14/14/16 (in 3.5, costs 33)

Bah, I’m thinking pathfinder point buy, sorry. I always forget that changed.

What are the point buy rules?

I'm still in... just let me know how to start building the character.

I would say sometimes. Sometimes it's good to work towards overcoming circumstances.

Other times, it's good to know "you were made for this" particular task.

I'm not advocating elimination of all risk.

Vaguely, d20 type systems seem to be based on the notion of 50/50 chances.

Defender's AC is 10, Dex is 10, not wearing armor, no shield. Maybe AC 11, pick up a small shield?

Attacker is Dex/Str 10, assuming proficiency, mostly likely +0 to hit unless you are a fighter of some sort, then +1.

~50% chance of success.

As you level, you add +1 or +2 to your roll. Attack, Saving throw DC, skill check, etc...

As you encounter more difficult encounters, the AC increases by about +1 to +2 (or the danger in some way). Saving throw, contested skill check, etc...

Situational modifiers often are give and take, effectively zero sum.

Combat expertise, power attack, deadly aim, charging, being prone (in cases), armor, exotic weapons or crit threat range/multiplier...

...combat maneuvers & AoOs, then a while slew of feats to address that (feat tax).

So, effectively your always at this 50% zone, give or take.

That's incredibly infuriating to me as a player. My character is effectively never getting any better.

Chances of success are never changing. That doesn't bother you? Really... a coin flip?

Gerard Nisroc wrote:

If they are average and foibled, that's a challenge to RP (and I could)... But, it's not the pleasant escape I desire.

Well, I’m not necessarily looking for average people stats, just to pull back from the need for ever increasing numbers.

I notice that players tend to over time want bigger and bigger numbers to feel powerful because they get used to numbers they have and over time it starts feeling normal instead of powerful, thus requiring higher numbers so they can feel powerful again.

I don't think that's it. I'll posit that it's the "randomness" they dislike. It prevents them from co-creating/shaping their own destiny and story.

They are forced to tip-toe around the rolls "if" they are lucky enough and successful. We are forced to write to the roll, not the role.

It's the flip side of role play don't roll play. It's insidious.

The higher the attributes, weapons bonuses, items bonuses, compared to the d20 roll, the less random the result can be. The more control one has over their story.

The more likely their desired action will be their action.

I enjoy that, too... the challenge of crafting a character that fits into an existing group. The mechanics and personality that may fit.

Character Acting.

I'm not looking to breeze through any challenges. The challenge can be bigger, harder.

It's like I'm saying... apply the Advanced Template to my character and make the encounters +2 CR. Something like that.

Examples: The Silver Surfer vs Galactus. Terminator T-800 vs Liquid Terminator T-1000, unawakened Neo vs Matrix Agents.

You can be powerful and yet still be the underdog.

RP(G)s for me are somewhat of a manifesting... it's not reality, I'm not delusional. But, I'm manifesting by best evolved self into... a particular avatar.

I prefer that avatar to be exceptional such that what I imagine doing and will... is done.

If they are average and foibled, that's a challenge to RP (and I could)... But, it's not the pleasant escape I desire.

I wish to shed that shackles of my reality and be fantastic... it's fantasy.

Something along those lines.

RP, I've got in spades. Coming up with background stories, laying in events to accommodate how, why or when... that's easy (for me).

I want the heroes to carry the day in some manner. Because of who and what they are, not in spite of it.

Don't get me wrong, we can still be underdogs compared to the obstacles we face, the villains can be more powerful. That's OK.

What do you mean by “low start block?”

Typo... low stat block (attributes). That whole previous discussion regarding ability scores.

10-11 is average, one or two ability scores above that and you're heroic, etc...

Another typo: "...fell asleep and came around (woke up) too late..."

I'm still leary of the low start block. Just makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand. Danger!

But just a busy week and waiting for others.

I'm getting a (possibly distinct) Maze Runner vibe... which I think is very cool.

Not scared away, Humans are product of Dwarves & Elves... doesn't thrill me. A creation/amalgam... I can reconcile, how he envisions the lore.

Could be human or half-orc (mostly human 3/4?, but darkvision).

Vaguely, his "group" (tribe, village, family, clan) different some unexplained event... People died, close people too, perhaps civilian/innocent/children. The event seemed random but perhaps some clues were left.

He and others figure best to explore, understand why... if it is likely to happen again, how to stop it or defend against it.

Perhaps a trope.

36 skill points?

Athletics
Acrobatics
Perception
Investigation
Speech
Bows
Light Blades (short sword, dagger, sickle, etc...)
Dodge
Handle Animal
Ride
Stealth
Survival

Maybe he's young, a ranger type, an outrider... a sentinel of sorts.

Perhaps he feels it's his inexperience that allowed the approach or attack. Maybe he simply fell asleep and around too later. He feels responsible.

Character is pretty much as briefly described, what do we need to do?

I'm not sure why point buy amount or rolling is directly associated with one's ability to craft story or RP. That may weed out those that can't. But, it indirectly restricts those that can.

I would want to play... me.

05 pts: 09/10/11/11/12/12
10 pts: 09/10/12/12/12/14
15 pts: 10/10/12/13/13/15
20 pts: 10/11/13/13/13/16
25 pts: 10/12/13/14/14/16

The above are versions of a renaissance man ("me") depending on point buy.

At early levels, I'd focus on survivability (combat & stealth) and perhaps pick up some minor magicks along the way as the character advances.

Trust in the DM is required but, so is trust in the player. You can kill me off at any time, quite easily in a more lethal world.

Perhaps I misunderstand it, but I sincerely worry about the skill/skill points system in the guide. It seems rather anemic. Perhaps that's because I'm a "jack of all trades" type.

Master of non, perhaps. But, it's within the synergy and fluidity of skills and abilities where I craft uniqueness of character, strategy and even story. That's fun!

PF 1-20 levels and Class based is limiting, but in multi classing, variant multi-classing to a lesser degree and Gestalt (simply to blend), woohoo! Folks balk at gestalt, but just make the challenges tougher.

It's like painting, limiting colors may be a nice exercise... but being limited perpetually, sucks. I fear the character will be limited to a handful of skills, forced to put points into fewer and fewer as time goes on (because of the linear cost progression).

Perhaps my fears are unfounded.

Trying to convey what attracts me to and deters me from playing any given game. Can't speak for others.

I'm not knocking the game system. Actually would love to collaborate and refine it even more - not being pushy, just offering.

So from a mechanics perspective you're kind stripping away the players ability to choose.

I remember rolling 3d6, straight down the line... miserable.

I gotta tell ya, the system is sounding less and less palatable (again, to me - can't speak for others).

My thoughts are, if I'm going to play a homebrew (s)low power deadly system (less and less and less player control)... at least let me create the character I want.

Everything seems engineered keep the player oppressed and off balance. It's as if the main thrust is to see how much they can take before they crack.

Granted story trumps dice, that's awesome! But although the power is the player's to RP... the DM is the arbiter (therefore the power is really theirs and not the players).

The characters may not be powerless, but the players are or at least can easily feel that way.

Worth a shot!

What does one roll for attributes? I did read the guide, but if the spread sucks (in my estimation), I may withdraw.

I don't mind all the homebrew and actually appreciate all the thought that went into it. Though in my estimation nothing makes up for perceived low attribute stats.

Maybe you bookend it with a minimum and maximum point-buy equivalent (ex: 18-23) to be eligible.

Reading the guide, if we're cleaving to the math/averages... you seem to be OK with a 3 point-buy.

That particular bit isn't for me.

So I’m guessing that while you might find plenty of character building opportunities here, I’m thinking it’ll be a lower power level than you like.

On the contrary, I don't care much about power level. It's inconsequential.

I prefer starting at Level 4 because it gives me a chance to craft a well rounded (doesn't have to be powerful) multi-class character to start play with.

That avoids the need to RP in-game how or why they did so. It's just part of their backstory.

Also, discovering the unknown is wonderful. I agree with you.

The ambiguity in referring to is more ethical/moral in nature. Knowing who the bad guys are, who to trust - especially in overly social combat games.

Are we following trope or is the DM making an exception to prove a point?

Do we outright reject "evil" or must we ally with the lesser evil... they may betray us (that is to expected) but will I be forced to break my word, my honor and betray them or should I avoid the deal entirely?

That sort of thing.

Seems your playing a highly modified homebrew and I'm fine with that.

Perhaps I'm the odd bird (put money on it) but character generation and building a well rounded capable character is most important to me.

If I am allowed to build the character I love, any adventure where they can utilize their skills is golden.

Not demigod status, but renaissance man/woman.

Higher point buy, elephant in the room, multi-classing or even gestalt. Access to the new Paizo material. Starting at level 4 seems to be the sweet spot for me.

I have a question for you! It's there a specific AP or module you'd like to get your hands on?

Happy to gift the modules as you need them. No strings attached. Don't even need to select me in recruitment.

Advice, nothing kills a game faster than ambiguity in what's encountered. This usually comes during investigation, usually in the form of player uncertainty.

Many players will tend to freeze. Game stalls. DM gets frustrated.

Yes, and they have bots that can help with rolling, character sheets, like Avrae, etc...

Some use it in combination with a Virtual Table Top (VTT) or Table-Top RPG (TTRPG) for shared maps, visuals, etc...

I have a Discord Server that discusses VTTs/TTRPGs, VTT: Table Talk <<< Link You might gain some insight there, it's a very small server.

But, I've been playing PBP here, at the Paizo Boards, since Aug 2010.

"No World is Square/Elephant in the Room" - I am unfamiliar with these concepts in this context. What do they mean?

It's a set of house rules proposed to mitigate what some feel are taxes (unnecessary pre-requisites) for taking certain actions. Originally, back in 2012.

I'm sure the it's explained in a much better manner, here...

Elephant in the Room <<< Link

Looks like a nice group coming together, I've got nothing. Sorry!

I did want to play in one of your games, as I've seen you around for years. Another time, Sir.

Good gaming all!

Castien Telendel wrote:

CG Male Moon Elf (Silverymoon) Magus (Bladebound, Spell Dancer) 1

Remember, we are starting at level 5.

Might be a typo, HP and BAB look like Level 5. Spells too.

Gerard Nisroc wrote:

I understand Drow aren't core, but would you consider one? Similar backstory... unlikely adoption and training into Paladinhood.

The PC is curious about the moment of hesitation and considers the chance to travel back in time an opportunity to prove their mentor (700+ year old Elf) was not at fault and alleviate them of their feelings of guilt.

I guess at Level 3 instead of Level 5? Paladin 1/Rogue 2?

Yeah, it might work. A drow paladin would be interesting. I assume he follows Eilestraee?

Thank you for considering it! Actually, I had Milil <<< Link in mind, as the patron of the elderly veteran who adopted them. Also, very Charisma heavy.

It's very challenging reworking the concept, as it hinged on the novelty of a charismatic Half-Orc paladin.

The juxtaposition doesn't work as well for a race that is meant to be charismatic. Kinda falls flat.

I'll try to think of something else.

I understand Drow aren't core, but would you consider one? Similar backstory... unlikely adoption and training into Paladinhood.

The PC is curious about the moment of hesitation and considers the chance to travel back in time an opportunity to prove their mentor (700+ year old Elf) was not at fault and alleviate them of their feelings of guilt.

I guess at Level 3 instead of Level 5? Paladin 1/Rogue 2?

Looks like I overlooked racial ability modifiers from FRCS.

A bit rigid and doesn't seem to synergize with my Half-Orc concept.

I'll withdraw unless I can come up with another concept.

I used the generic they/their... but, curious if there would be a preference or logical argument for male vs female character.

Just thinking that female might be "thinner/narrower" and more easily jive with a Dex/Cha based character. Ability scores would remain the same.

How many levels do you intend/expect to play through? Levels 5-9 maybe?

Sometimes I can't fit everything I've imagined the character to be at a particular level, so I'm tying to devise a natural progression for character development or growth.

I think it effects multi-classing a bit more, as one might want to reach a certain milestone in a particular class to really feel "whole." I guess because you split the levels, those lover levels (in each class) seem further way.

How will they evolve to express their potential, sorta thing.

Level them up to 5th Level :)

Interesting

I'm case you didn't notice it, this had become the...

Doom of Cormanthor (PF1, Recruiting)

...recruitment. Can't have you missing out.

Gerard Nisroc wrote:

EltonJ wrote:

Gerard Nisroc wrote:

So no high Charisma Half-Orc Unchained Rogue/Paladin (with archetypes)?

It can work, as long as you have an interesting backstory.

Backstory is my jam!

I was worried about the books limitation.

Archetypes, Unchained Classes, uRogue's Finesse Training, possibly some feats (Accomplished Sneak Attacker), etc...

I wanted to make sure that people don't go to overboard with their concepts. :)

My aim is typically to create effective, not overpowered. I actually end up being non-optimized (min-max) because of the well-roundedness.

And, although I mix things up it all typically comes together cohesively. But, you'll have to be the judge of that.

I'll get to crackin'!

EDIT: Background Skills, Traits, World is Square/Elephant in the Room, etc...? Max HP Level 1, then half+1 or roll?

Gerard Nisroc wrote:

So no high Charisma Half-Orc Unchained Rogue/Paladin (with archetypes)?

It can work, as long as you have an interesting backstory.

Backstory is my jam!

I was worried about the books limitation.

Archetypes, Unchained Classes, uRogue's Finesse Training, possibly some feats (Accomplished Sneak Attacker), etc...

So no high Charisma Half-Orc Unchained Rogue/Paladin (with archetypes)?

Seems there would be numerous opportunities to be heroic! I'm in...terested.

You had me at 25-point buy.

But, what's the general storyline? That helps me envision a character and their plot hooks, connections and entanglements.

Good gaming all! May the RP flow and the dice tumble in your favor!

Maybe something like "Marek Raelanor Basri" with...

Raelanor meaning Sun's First Kiss.

Gerard, does your character have a name or is it just called Queen's Knight?

That is just how I saw him. Was considering the High Guardian archetype.

I was waiting to see if Kelishite lineage was too much... before I selected a name.

Basri is the family, sounds Kelish to me... But, I'm not an expert.

Character concept: A cross of Molly Weasley and Mrs. King from "Scarecrow and Mrs. King". Grounded, intelligent, and pleasant. She has years of lived experience, but is ready for something a bit different.

Nice! If we are both chosen, I can imagine the pair as traveling companions. The younger diplomat possibly known to her husband.

Gerard Nisroc wrote:

Oh, I got deep into this and just realized something. Do the Class options include the Unchained versions?

I'm not against them. Which class are you considering?

Rogue >> Unchained Rogue.

Oh, I got deep into this and just realized something. Do the Class options include the Unchained versions?