I am beginning to run the AP. My PCs have cleared out Licktoad Village, and are going to observe shipwrecks and the cave with Tsutamu and the Whispering Shrike.
My idea is to put the module Feast of Ravenmoor on the way to Brinewall, likely with Koya mentioning that there an "interesting celebration of Desna" on the way.
My party is a group of 5, generally new to Pathfinder, Unchained Summonner, Shaman (primarily an archer), Fighter (18 str, Earthbreaker), Cleric, Brawler (only player whose played much PF). They are currently level 2.
My real questions are "should I have my party level to 3 before the module" and "would leveling them to 4 afterward make Brinewall too easy"?
So, I feel like I ought to pay it back/pay it forward- -I'm in a bunch of PbP games as a player- -and it's given me a chance to play before I run for the local face-to-face PFSers.
The problem: I've GMed a PbP table once- -and I struggled with pacing and posting consistency. There were days when getting a ability to post even once was improbable at best, and other days when I could get three or four posts in with little effort. (And unlike in face-to-face gaming, I can't see how engaged or bored the other side of the screen is. I know consistency is the end-all be-all of a good PbP GM, and I just cannot promise that.
So, I suppose, the question is this: Would an inconsistent posting rate from your GM be detrimental to your enjoyment as a player?
Secondarily, if you'd be interested in playing, post some scenarios you'd wish to play. I'll glance over the list and make a more proper recruitment thread (or keep it here if that seems easier).
Please be honest! 'No gaming' is better than 'bad gaming.'
For a city founded upon bloody combat traditions, Tymon is surprisingly docile. Weapons are invariably peace-bonded, there is a lack of muscle-flexing machismo in the streets—even public disputes are scarcer than in comparably large settlements. Rule of law here is strong, perhaps, or else violent urges are simply sated vicariously through the famed Arena of Aroden.
Whatever the cause, little impedes the swift journey to Smine’s Weaponworks, locally famous as a place of business but secretly also a Pathfinder lodge. The sound of ringing steel and the withering heat of the forge through an open sliding door identify the stone structure as readily as its wellpainted but soot-stained sign. Several apprentices work blades in various stages of completion, and at the largest work area toils a smiling dwarf: famed weaponsmith and venture-captain Holgarin Smine. He glances up under singed eyebrows, never missing a beat as he says, “Ah. It’s you. A moment.”
After putting some final touches on a spearhead, quenching it in water, and nodding approvingly after a brief appraisal, he unties his apron and opens the door into the adjoining building. Within a few minutes, Smine has set out refreshments such as bread and cheese in a much cooler kitchen. “Forgive me for not asking about your journey. Love the details, but those can wait. There's a friend of mine who has a druidic sickle you're going to retrieve. Head to her camp and we can have time to catch up when you get back."
The trek out of Tymon was uneventful, and three days into the River Kingdoms have led you to an abandoned camp. The only proof suggesting you are even in the right place is a journal, which upon inspection clearly belongs to Ulisha. Several excerpts stand out:
Excerpt 1:
...the only thing worse than working for a Galtan nobleman is working for two Galtan noblemen—in my case, Lords Tullivor and Sarvio, both of whom are happy only when the other is not. I made a tidy sum recovering their heirlooms, but when Laban Tullivor tasked me to steal a platinum chalice belonging to the Sarvios, I took my leave (and the cup), and they’ve been hounding me since. Now Laban’s deceased, and it’s rumored his mausoleum in Gralton’s cemetery harbors a treasure. I hope you’ll not balk at tomb-robbing. Remember, these are aristocrats. I say, a plague on both their houses...
Excerpt 2:
...When seeking to conceal something, one’s first instinct is to choose a spot no one would think to look. Better yet, choose a locale no one would dare to go. Such was my logic after liberating a magic lantern from an anemic necromancer in Ustalav. Lest the wizard track me through its magic, I hid the lantern underneath some rocks in a stream near Cannibal’s Grove, whose own magic would disguise the lantern’s own. Now that time has passed, I’d gladly cut you in for a nice percentage of its value. All you need do is travel to the Forest of Veils in southern Varno. From there, any superstitious peasant should know the route to Cannibal’s Grove. How bad can it be?
Excerpt 3:
...different cultures’ treatment of the gods is a point of endless fascination for me.
Consider the Rahadoumi and their Laws of Man, rejecting the gods despite the plagues and deserts that eat away at their lands. Others such as the Nidalese have sworn themselves entirely to one god who grants his followers power at a punishing price. The small nation of Razmiran is much like Nidal, in that the people pay homage to a most curious deity: a “Living God” who lives among his people. Don’t be fooled by his talk of prosperity for all. The Razmiri are an underhanded lot, and I recently heard that the village of Allenstead—once staunchly against the god Razmir—had all converted to Razmir’s worship. Apparently, a priest bearing a jeweled rod recently paid Allenstead a visit and won everyone over within a day. It’s obvious that some dastardly magic is at work here, and that the priest’s golden scepter is at the crux of it all. I wonder what it’s worth?
Excerpt 4:
...I may have just made a monumental discovery. While searching for an Osirian urn in an Absalom museum, I came upon a collection of charcoal rubbings in an old scroll tube. According to the notes that accompanied them, they were taken by a Pathfinder from a cave wall somewhere between the border of Numeria and the River Kingdoms. The rubbings depict what Numerians now refer to as the Rain of Stars. While this cave alone is an incredible find, I believe there’s something even more remarkable. In the rubbings, one of the smaller objects has a line that connects it to the horizon. While the Pathfinder dismissed this line as a stone fracture, I have another thought. I believe whomever witnessed this Rain of Stars must have seen where one of the smaller objects impacted and etched the line as a point of reference! Now all I need to do is calculate where the ridge lies in relation to this cave and I’ll have my name in the history books...
Excerpt 5:
...that the Riverfolk of Daggermark haven’t wiped themselves off the map with their wanton assassinations and poisonings is a fact that will never cease to amaze me. Still, where such dealings occur, coin is always involved, and one knowledgeable in the ways of commerce can always earn a good wage. Daggermark’s economy runs on poisoned blades, but those blades would be dry were in not for a constant influx of alchemical goods. Such goods wax and wane, though, and if one watches diligently, these market shifts can be predicted. The next ingredient the markets will want is an adhesive produced by spiders and left in their webs. Of course more potent chemicals would be found in the glands of the dreadful beasts, but I am a scholar, not some vagabond sellsword slaying vermin for ale money. I have mapped a route to a newer nest that should be sparsely defended. My buyer, one Johannes Vox (an Iobarian of curious temperament) has not been as forthright in our latest dealing as I’d like. Perhaps it is time I sold elsewhere...
Excerpt 6:
As you may have gathered from my absence, I’ve made a few enemies who would be all too pleased to see me leave the region—or worse. Like so many matters in the River Kingdoms, the range of thugs that might want an honest explorer dead are as diverse and numerous as the kingdoms themselves. The last several months of my time here have been exciting and perilous enough that exactly who my real enemies are is unclear. Until I can sort out the sides, I’m lying low in a nearby hideout. I should be safe there and can meet with you soon to complete our transaction.
Feel free to dot in, and discuss what to do/where to go. I'll borrow some of my GM's "rule of two." If two people agree on a course of action, we'll take it that way.
While this is a rules question, it's more about PFS policy.
Hypothetical situation:
I have 3 XP, and I'm looking to show up with a level 2 human rogue to my next session.
I know that you can legally retrain your level 1 feats to ones you didn't qualify fo at level 1, so I could sit down with both (say) Power Attack and Quick Draw.
My question is, how much does the free rebuild cover and how much would need to be paid retraining? Or, put differently, when does the free rebuild stop?
Other Hypothetical:
I have 9XP of GM credit. When I build a level 4 fighter, can I choose to retrain my 3rd level feat into Spring Attack, using my 4th level one for Weapon Specialization? Do I have to pay for it?
Disclaimer: I understand that this is against the spirit of the rules. If it's allowable, I'd at least like to know the specifics.
I have a cleric of Brigh that would like to get the feat Sacred Summons to quick-summon clockworks.
I have two questions regarding this:
1: While my cleric doesn't detect as any alignment, does it still have the "Aura Class Feature"?
2: Is the abscence of an alignment subtype considered an 'exact match' for the purposes of Sacred Summons?
Noteworthy text:
CRB: Cleric, Aura Class Feature:
Aura (Ex): A cleric of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity's alignment (see the detect evil spell for details).
UM: Sacred Summons:
Prerequisites: Aura class feature, ability to cast summon monster.
Benefit: When using summon monster to summon creatures whose alignment subtype or subtypes exactly match your aura, you may cast the spell as a standard action instead of with a casting time of 1 round.
Covered foot to neck in scorch-marked bronze clockwork armor, a perturbed looking gnome seems to wander around the Grand Lodge in deliberate spiral patterns, her nose buried in a journal full of scibbles, her orange hair tied back into a braid out of conveinience rather than fashion. Both her shield and armor sport a prominent motif of a bronze mask, and closer inspection shows that the vast majority of the clockwork pieces are currently not functioning. She stops suddenly, content that her spiral is large enough and asks politely to anyone within earshot:
"I need to talk to someone from the Dark Archive because I went to finalize my reports to that waif of an elf Kreighton Shaine last mission and he thought it was very interesting that Ashkerhall was full of murals that reminded him of Jormundun and that the golden guardian wasn't made of bronze like I expected and that Venture Captain Sharrowsmiths journals belonged to the Dark Archive now and that I couldn't just read them and study them like I want even though there's probably information that I could use to help piece together my latest discovery where gnomish techniques just don't measure up to Dwarven craftsmanship when melting adamantine like when you need something super durable to keep the explosions from buckling it like a bridge over the islands in the Shackles where heavy tides and drunken revelers with their staggered footsteps break down foundations and cause tensional failures that can completely and entirely wreck years of progress like when my lab assistant accidentally mixed the molten bronze with tepid water even though I told him that it should have been lukewarm and the town guards thought that maybe Alkenstar wasn't the best place to be trying to cast a quicksilver shield even though it was awesome and the calculations suggest it is completely possible so I told him that I'd find some other place with a better respect for learning and innovation and that when everyone in the Inner Sea is holding a shield made of purest quicksilver mixed with bronze like a sunset on stainless steel reflecting light onto the darkest of hillside thickets where wolves prowl and howl and bowl over unsuspecting travelers with their fancy backpacks and belt pouches full of shiny clinky gold that he'd be sorry and so was Kreighton Shaine who said that I needed to get into the Dark Archive because all of the books and the notes and the formula sheets and the experimentation notes and the transreliquats and experimental quicksilver apparatuses and Sharowsmith's journal was being stored in the basement where the general public's inquisitive little hands couldn't get to them even though my little hands are three times as good at disassembling things as any elf and approximately 1.6 times as good at putting them back together because sometimes the molten bronze and the igneous basalt and the tiny pieces of clockworks don't always line up with the screwdrivers closest at hand but the burns usually go away after a little magical healing which usually makes everyone else happy anyway so I have to ask someone associated with this Dark Archive for some sort of sponsorship just to get a look at a book or two even though Tahonikepsu would probably be mad and a mad dragon is more volatile than thrice-condensed molten erudite mixed with lava then shaken like a martini they serve in Opparra's dingiest uppercrust bar even though they call it a nightclub like they think its only open at night and you need a membership to join as if it was a Dark Archive and they did important things like disassembling clockworks instead of serving alcohol with funny little parasols like the ones the caravan from Minkai brought back with their latest shipment of fireworks that blast across the sky trailing stars like "FWOOOOOOOSH" and exploding so amazingly that you forget why you even started talking so can I join?"
So, I'm looking to build a halfling for PFS purposes who embraces the epithet and uses it as a term of endearment, much like many ethnic groups in the U.S. have co-opted once-offensive terms.
Jeff Hazuka Dedicated Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Jayson MF Kip
So, inspired by fellow alternate Jensen Toperzer, I present the map that I had submitted as an Top 32 alternate. (I already know a few hings that I should have done, but in the spirit of fair criticism, am submitting it as-is.)
So, thanks in advance, and thanks for making my first-ever competition like this a fun experience that, most importantly, I can learn from.
Jeff Hazuka Dedicated Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Jayson MF Kip
Fellbough Hookhammer Aura faint transmutation; CL 5th
Slot none; Price 16,620 gp; Weight 3 lbs.
Description
The first of these small-sized +1/+1 gnome hooked hammers was crafted after a lightning storm felled a monumental ash tree, its scorched haft a reminder that even the tallest can be made low. Whenever the wielder makes a trip attempt with the fellbough hookhammer, treat the wielder’s size bonus to CMB as if she were one size larger. A creature tripped by the fellbough hookhammer cannot make attacks of opportunity as long as it remains prone.
Construction Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, enlarge person, litany of sloth; Cost 8,310 gp
When a Pathfinder agent working in the famed Blakros Museum in Absalom falls victim to a terrible, ancient evil, if falls to the PCs to hunt down the released terror before it can retrieve a relic of the mad astronomer Ralzeros the Overwatched.
The daughters of Absalom's mysterious Blakros family have long been among the most pursued maidens in the Inner Sea. Now the family's matriarch approaches the Pathfinder Society to help her break a centuries-old pact with the denizens of the Plane of Shadow to save her twin daughters from a life of servitude at the hands of the Onyx Alliance. Heading into the fan-favorite adventuring location of Blakros Museum, the PCs have only a short amount of time to break the Penumbral Accords and solidify the Pathfinder Society's ties to the powerful Blakroses.
What better time to celebrate revelry than the morning after a celebration?
Something is afoot at Cayden's Hall, the carousing temple-pub in Absalom where Cayden Cailean's faithful pay homage to their Drunken Hero. Pathfinder agent Osprey and his demonologist companion send you to investigate the truth behind a long-rumored demonic lab said to exist beneath the temple-pub's sticky floors. A trail of murders led Osprey to Cayden's Hall and his demonologist sees clues that denizens of the Abyss are involved. It's up to you to find out what demons want with the Drunken Hero's largest temple. Bar fights, revelry, song, and drink await within the Hall of Drunken Heroes.
In the ruins of Xin-Bakrakhan—seat of power of the Runelord of Wrath—the Pathfinder Society stands on the verge of a great discovery, but first the brave agents exploring the ruins must survive ages-old dangers and contemporary threats to return with the knowledge and wealth they’ve unearthed.
Written by Mike Shel
--Two spots remain, and an alernate or two would be nice.--
On the edge of life and death, between winter and spring, there is a holiday of hallowed halls held here. To some it is known as the Day of Bones, the time when those looked upon by Pharasma celebrate their profession and the transitory nature of life. Join us Saturday, March 1st, 2014 for Online VTT Gameday 3 – Day of Bones, and see if you can keep one foot out of the grave and delay your travels upon the Infinite Staircase. http://pathfindersocietyonline.com/events
Scenario: PFS 02-25: You Only Die Twice [5-9]
Date/Time: Saturday, March 1st, 2014 @ 12:00 PM (Noon) EST US [-5 GMT]
GM: Jeff H.
Game Client: Google Plus Hangout and the Roll20.net VTT
Description:
A Pathfinder Society Scenario designed for 5th to 9th level characters (Tiers: 5-6 and 8-9).
The Pathfinder Society sends you into the undead-ruled nation of Geb for an undercover mission, not disguised as undead, but temporarily transformed into a shambling, zombie version of yourself. Can you survive the ordeal to return to the land of the living, or will your final grave be among Geb’s bones?
A Pathfinder Society Scenario designed for 1st to 5th level characters (Tiers: 1–2 and 4-5).
The Pathfinder Society sends you to the fabled Kingdom of the Impossible, the island of Jalmeray, to stop an Aspis Consortium black market relics dealer who is organizing the local bandits and violently robbing Jalmeray and Pathfinder Society caravans laden with relics, artifacts, and magical mysteries. When a venture-captain is murdered by the Aspis Consortium agent, it's up to the PCs to find him and do whatever it takes to stop him.
Written by Craig Shackleton
A few notes:
This is my first attempt at running online. I would like to respectfully request that the players interested exhibit a modicum of patience. I'll probably have some necessary "on-the-fly" learning to do. Thanks in advance.
Warhorn link pending. Contact via PM or email: dothacked @ gmail .com.
Firstly, this is for PFS, so a career that sees its last combat at level 11.
If your main plan is to focus on transmutations to be more of a "bard" at earlier levels and to be an "arcane druid" at higher levels via polymorph spells, is a sky-high INT particularly necessary?
Myself and 3 others (Monk (trip specialist), Rogue (Knife Master), and Wizard (Evoker), all humans) are playing through Jade Regent, and I'm playing Gant Thicketsnicker, an Undead-Blooded Gnome Bloodrager and hopeful Daughter of Urgathoa.
The party has just begun Act 2 of Jade Regent 1.
25 point buy.
Str 16
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 11
Cha 14
Combat Reflexes @ level 1.
One thing jumps out at this level. I'm really not much different from a Barbarian at this point. I wanted to make a melee-based sorcerer at the time the playtest was announced, and a combination Sorcerer/Barbarian would be great...BAB and Arcane ability! Right now, I'm a Barbarian with a slightly smaller HP total and a 1-round debuff on charge attacks. Which I've missed both chances I've had to make. I've felt far more effective playing similar to a reach fighter- -making AoOs as often as possible. I used a Lucerne Hammer at level 1, then recently obtained a Masterwork Glaive.
Noteworthy things:
During the giant fight with 20-some odd goblins in Brinestump Marsh, reach + combat reflexes did far more than a debuff on charge attacks (which are not easy to pull off in most cases). The final fight led off with me getting hit directly with a skyrocket and knocked out (11 damage on 2d6 (had a bit of lingering damage prior)).
Fighting against the undead remains of Tsutamu, one critical hit ended that encounter before it began (max damage on 2d10 + 14). So not really too much that was bloodrager-specific on that fight- -could have been a barbarian (or a 20-strength fighter) and not felt too much different.
One thing that is nice (and different than most Barbarians) is that I've had decent ability to affect social encounters. Diplomacy (class skill via trait), Intimidate, and Handle Animal are nice to have with positive Charisma modifiers.
My overall impression:
This feels like a barbarian so far. I don't get the sense that what I'm doing is very arcane at all. I'm sure higher levels will sort that out, but in the meantime I'm not anything more than a differently flavored barbarian (which is admittedly still pretty damned fun).
I know I won't get to play again before the end of the playtest, but I will continue playing Ms. Thicketsnicker and can provide further feedback if need be.
Additionally, animal companions have access to magical item slots, in addition to barding and neck, as listed on the inside front cover of the Animal Archive so long as they select the Extra Item Slot feat. The Animal Magic Item Slots table found in Animal Archive is not a legal except under the following conditions. First, an animal companion, familiar, or bonded mount, may choose one slot listed under its body type when taking the Extra Item Slot feat (this feat may be taken multiple times, each time selecting a different available magic item slot based on the creature’s anatomy). Second, access to specific magic item slots may be granted at a later date by another legal source. If you do not own a copy of the Animal Archive, your animal companion may only use barding and neck-slot items.
I've scanned the boards enough to know you can't retro-fit mount items to non-horses, but am I reading this right in that it takes a feat (and the purchase of another book(!)) just to equip horses with, say, Horseshoes of Speed?
"Non-human aasimars have the same statistics as human
aasimars with the exception of size. Thus a halfling aasimar
is Small but otherwise possesses the same statistics and
abilities as a human aasimar—the difference is purely
cosmetic."
Emphasis mine.
Does this mean size bonuses (to Strength/AC/Attack Rolls/Stealth) do not get applied? Or does it mean that ONLY size bonuses apply (and all other stats and abilites are identical)?
Can someone point me to where the rules say your deity has to be one step away from your alignment? I know it's somewhere (or maybe I just assume it's somewhere), I just can't find it.
I also have one Ability score increase to apply from Way of the Kirin.
I'm going to use the Level 6 talent to get Kirin Style via ninja trick.
As such, I will need to spend 6 ranks on Knowledge (Arcana). I already have 5 ranks in Knowledge (Local). That leaves me with 5 available skill ranks for this level. As such, I'm wondering how best to allocate said ranks towards knowledge skills to get the most out of Kirin Style.
Also, is there any easy way (besides multiclassing) to get more knowledge skills as class skills? (I'm not beyond paying prestige).
So, tinkering and trying different options has left me with the following preliminary build. PFS-legal(CRB, APG, ARG, UM, UC, ISM, PFS Field Guide are my current available resources (will look for Legacy of Fire)), 20-point buy. Any critiques, suggestions, ideas, criticism, or World Series predictions will be most helpful. Thanks in advance.
Human Unarmed Fighter 5/MMoS Monk 2/Duelist x
(Dual +2 Attribute instead of bonus feat & skilled)
Stats:
STR 16 (+2)
DEX 13
CON 13
INT 13
WIS 18 (+2)
CHA 7
Consideration: Should I swap my DEX and STR? I want to eventually make 3+ AoOs per round. But, then again, having damage as an option early is nice, too.
I imagine it's probably not the most efficient expenditure of classes, but I wanted to have the full use of Snake Style as soon as possible. That much I want to keep. Also, I don't want to put off entering into the Duelist PC any later than 8. (I toyed with the idea of 6 levels of Inquisitor instead of UFighter 2-5, but by level 10 PFS characters are nearly retired).
Other options to consider: Swapping STR and DEX and re-ordering feats (Weapon Finesse becomes a priority instead of an afterthought. Also, a Guided AOmF becomes equipment priority #1).
I had originally considered 4 levels of Ranger instead of Levels 2-5 of Fighter. Is there any other Full-BAB class worth going exactly 4 levels into? I'm not particularly impressed with levels 2-5 of Fighter, but the full Crane Style is nice.
I am currently contemplating a Snake Style (UC) user that prestige classes into Duelist. The main draw is being able to use Sense Motive as AC/Touch AC. To max the Sense Motive I'll want an above-average-to-high WIS.
Aside from skills/saves, are there any (perhaps more esoteric) reasons to have high WIS?
"Uh... what are you eating?"
"My poo. Why?"
"... WHY ARE YOU EATING YOUR POO!?"
"My fermentation chamber evolved on the wrong side of my intestines. The first run through my body packages it up and then my fermentation chamber breaks down the plant matter so my intestines can absorb it... this means I have to eat everything twice."
"So how long ago was it that your race angered the gods?"
"Jokes on you, I evolved to think my poo tastes delicious."
This could lead to more people trying to "subtly" defending their item on the forums if they knew it was doing bad.
The anonymity ensures people aren't sitting around freaking out that their item is doing poorly.
And, don't forget, the judges still have final say, so what if your item had more votes than anyone but the judges still felt there were better items, how upset would you be?
Just relax and do a rough outline of your archetype, there is enough info on the Riverlands online to at least get an idea of where to start.
I think the stigma against something being a spell in a can is over-done. Some of the best items in the game are spell-in-a-can. The thing is the low hanging spell in a can fruit has been picked many times over.
I agree completely. Spells-in-a-can are easy to made and can be very decent items but they often lack that spark which would turn them into something greater than decent item.
Since the voting started I have seen a lot of decent spell-in-a-can items that were good items that could show in published modules but only a few of them were reaching beyond decent-but-unimpressive.
A good spell in a can is all about what the item is and how you activate it.
A rock that is warm and when you activate and throw it it acts like a fireball... that's boring.
A little mechanical monkey that you activate and it runs forward screaming and then explodes, that's awesome.
I have seen maybe 10 totally amazing items, a lot of decent though uninspired items, and a good amount of formatting mistakes, pricing mistakes, or items that just straight up ignored the advice threads.
Though some of the SIAC items had interesting enough activation methods or were made from odd items so I would give them a pass for being interesting despite being a SIAC.
Am I the only person that reads an item, and mentally votes it down to violating one of Shawn's rules?
I will even admit to voting for an item due to Rule 27.
Speaking as a Sean:
You may not realize how annoying/insulting it is for people to spell our name wrong (Shawn, Shaun) especially when the correct spelling is right in front of your face.
Might not bug Shawns and Shauns as much, but it drives us Seans up the wall.
Yeah, only that it doesn't work that way in reality. Villains have better stuff to do than spend their action on chugging a Cure Not Enough Wounds potion, while four or more PCs are wailing on them. Players hoard consumables. Most of the time a group will not let an enemy disengage and retreat, so that he can actually heal himself up as described in his tactics.
There's an entire "villain's escape tool box" listed on the NPC page of the PFSRD.
It gives you an entire list of spells and gadgets to assist in an escape.
Again, your problems appear to be completely confined to your GMing style, not the system itself.
You have still not substantially argued against the point I was making that the core balance of the game has certain assumptions ( which I am not going to repeat for a fourth time ), outside of saying that you can just adjust to that.
I have not done so substantially according to you. So far most posts seem to agree with me, and since we do not have a proper moderator the only thing we do have is the opinion of the audience.
Quote:
Since part of my main argument is that keeping as close to the the core balance as possible is desirable
Desirable to you.
Quote:
contrary to just eyeballing it and hoping for the best ( which is all that re-adjusting really CRs entails, outside of tons of work )
After 17 years of eyeballing, it ceases being eyeballing and becomes an advanced grasp of challenge mechanics.
Quote:
We are quite obviously working at cross-purposes here.
No crap. You're trying to enforce a houserule you'd like to see on everyone. I am simply asking the core rules remain as is and I'm suggesting you houserule YOUR problem. Instead you'd prefer to modify an entire system to fix YOUR problem.
Quote:
My argument is for the core balance and how magic item crafting undermines it.
Define core balance.
Show me an encounter that only the magic item rules can break.
Find me a design document that outlines what this almighty "core balance" is supposed to be.
Because the avaiable rules make it appear that core balance is inherently adjustable.
Quote:
Your argument is how adjusting things is easy-peasy.
Nope, my argument is that you're wrong. I made a point about how easy encounter adjustment is to counter your point of it being "hours of work", which as been refuted by more GMs in this discussion than me.
Quote:
Anyway, I'm done. You have been getting progressively more unpleasant and I can spend my time with better tasks. You can strut around like you actually won the argument, if you like.
You could have conceded some time ago, only you made the choice to keep failing to construct your argument well.
My job isn't to convert you to my side, it's to make you look wrong in the eyes of anyone reading this.
Debate opponents aren't for agreeing, they are targets to do splash damage with.
As I said, you are using FOX News style debating. Shouting down people is easier than actually thinking about their arguments.
Oh, well. Makes it easier to ignore you in the future. Goodbye.
No, I'm using the basis of logical argument.
You made a positive statement, I believe it is wrong. I have nothing to prove, I simply have to poke holes in your argument.
Unless you consider the basis of western law to be "Fox news debate tactics".
You brought logical terms into this.
Be careful what you wish for, some of us actually take the time to understand logical debate and not simply throw words around like we know what we're talking about.
As posted by Orthos:
Burdens of the affirmative
Burdens of the affirmative is a basic part of debate. It is an agreement that the affirmative team must prove their points through evidence. This is to prevent the affirmative from creating fake plans that have no evidence on either side; therefore, the affirmative will always win.
It's a combination of instinct and childish humour.
There's some part of the male brain that still connects dominance with peeing on things.
Now, speaking as a life-long nihilist who spent 13 years in Catholic School, I practically have a PhD in blasphemy and desecration.
Okay, so what you need is someone with Knowledge (Religion) and you need to catalog the holy symbols and discover their meaning.
Anyone can pee on a holy symbol, or invert it, but if you know what its meant to represent, you can truly defile it.
For example, peeing on a virginity idol isn't as good as using it to deflower a virgin.
Inverting a crucifix isn't nearly as bad as displaying Jesus as happy and laughing, or in sexual ecstasy, while being crucified, as his suffering is a major key to the image. You've disarmed the image by removing the key to it.
Desecration of evil temples is easy. Steal valuables and give them to charity, specifically charities that counter act the evil god's specific spheres of influence.
Bless the remains of sacrificial remains.
Use a sacrificial dagger to carve up a roast and serve it to the poor.
Don't smash the temple, clean it up, make it look pretty and remove all the objects of worship.
Dude. I've put forth a detailed argument. You have not bothered to dispute me on any of its points, aside from "That's not how it works in my campaigns", which is not even germane to the basis of my argument of why magic item rafting is unbalanced against the core assumptions of the game.
As such, you already failed in trying to disprove the argument, because you are trying to disprove the symptons, not the root of it. If you want to disprove the mechanical reasoning I've put forth, the point of attack is my assertion that the core game mechanics are built of 4 PCs, WBL and 15 point buy = monster CR, not that magic item crafting works fine in your game.
Your move.
And I DID counter those by pointing out that CR, WBL, and a 4 PC party are GUIDELINES, not UNBREAKABLE RULES.
Because they are guidelines, they are designed to be modified.
Because they are designed to be modified, the "game is designed around 4 PCs, WBL, and monster CR" is false.
I pointed this out a post ago.
They even have guidelines of how to adjust the CR for a 6 or 3 person party.
Combine this with the fact that you are encouraged to use encounters with ELs up to 3 higher than your APL all combine to show that CR is not a fixed rule.
And because it is variable, it can deal with the current magic item creation rules, YOU just have to put a tiny bit of effort in as a GM.
So unless you're willing to attack everything that can negative affect CR, you're being intellectually inconsistent by cherry picking one problem that is only a problem if you use the CR system like biblical law.
I am not making a positive statement, I am simply making the statement that you are wrong.
It's like a court case.
You are the positive statement, the prosecution. You are making the statement that Pathfinder is guilty of broken magic item rules.
I am the defense. The defense never has to prove innocents, they just must cast doubt on the guilt.
The defense doesn't have to prove he didn't do it, he has to prove that the evidence that says he did is wrong.
This is the FOUNDATION of logical argument.
So, you have put forth the positive statement.
I am saying your statement is false.
Now give me the information I requested so that I may then begin the poking of holes.
If you fail to prove your case, the defense wins by default. Exactly as if the prosecution has failed the burden of proof.
You have given the mechanical example of how magic item creation rules can mess up CRs.
I have pointed out that CRs are a) guidelines and b) already easily messed up by simply having skilled players at your table, such as the infamous "min-maxer".
I have cast doubt on your first point.
You must now reinforce that point, or concede and move onto another point which I, again, simply have to poke holes in.
First, you are the person putting forth the positive statement: Magic item creation rules ARE broken.
I am putting forth that they are not, that's the negative statement.
In debate rules, you go first, you have to prove your point without reasonable doubt. I only have to poke holes.
I am not required to put forth any argument, only to poke holes in yours, that's how a positive statement vs negative statement debate works.
It is impossible to prove a negative, it is only possible to disprove a positive.
First: You used the statement "If Item Creation rules are broken 98% of the time"
Please provide data to show the instance of how often the Item Creation Rules are broken. Include a sample size of at least three digits.
Please provide several SPECIFIC cases of the item creation rules breaking the game. Please provide as much detail as possible for these specific situations. Please provide access to the player's involved so they can be questioned.
Please show the math as to how much the power level of a PC increases when compared to CR when they are what you would probably considered "over equipped."
You want to get objective, then let's get objective.
I am only stating that your opinion is false, hence I have no evidence I need to display. I must simply criticize yours.
I had a Wizard in my last game who pretty much only had item crafting feats. The more he made and sold, the more I increased the magic item arsenal of local thugs who were taking advantage of his driving prices down.
When every humanoid encounter started having wand users, he came to the realization that he was an indirect arms dealer.
I don't see many things in Pathfinder that are objectively problematic, I more see differences in preference of play, and PF doesn't support certain styles of play as well as it supports others.
It's not so much that you change the things you want as much as you realize that many of the things you think you want are actually just impulses to buy. Your brain succumbing to advertising.
When you learn to identify those "false wants", you can stop having them all together.
It also helps if you don't own a TV, don't listen to the radio, and use AdBlock online.
Those atoms formed into biological molecules. The ones in our brain are combined in a complicated organ capable of functions akin a to computer.
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Ha hahaha... oh man. Hurray for public school !
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I could go into the very specific process of abiogenesis to the human brain, but there are these things called evolutionary biology text books that will explain it infinitely better than I.
The short form goes:
There is a clay found near volcanic vents under the ocean that acts as a hell of a catalyst for chemical bonding.
...
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That's a neat story. But,
Unless you can explain how a group of atoms (our brains) can go around
and "exploring and cataloging" the other atoms around the place, I'm
going to have to say the meaning of "meaning" is still unbound.
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I already explained that.
Atoms can form into more complex structures capable of more complex activities.
One of these structures is a wet processing center known as a brain.
And I already said, there is no meaning of meaning.
There is no meaning.
There are definitions based on given programming languages of given sensory devices.
Those definitions mean nothing to anyone but our particular processing center.
The definitions are entirely subjective, as nothing exists capable of assigning objective meaning and definition.
No meaning, no purpose, no karma, no destiny, no point.
So five years ago I made the choice to sort of remove myself from consumerism as best I could. I stopped decorating my living places, I only bought new clothes to replace clothing that fell apart, I've been wearing the same pair of shoes for over three years.
I have almost completely squashed my desire to own "stuff".
When this comes up with others, I'm always surprised at people's reaction to my life style. They act as if somehow I'm the weird one.
Maybe you are. Are you dressing in near rags and do your shoes have holes in them after 3 years of use? If you look markedly different than your peers, you're going to stand out.
We live in a consumer society where the norm is that certain things get replaced after a period of time. And they aren't usually built to last that long as a result. So more than likely, your clothes and shoes are standing out because of their general condition.
So yes, you're weird. Accept that.
Meh, I look at it like being the first set of guys who were against slavery.
Right now, I'm weird, in the future people will figure out this consumerism thing is kind of stupid.
And I'm not trying to compare slavery and consumerism, I'm just using the comparsion of a set of people who were "weird" at one point and eventually became the norm.
And 3 years of use should not have your shoes falling apart, there's zero holes in mine.
Or my clothing.
I will replace the shoes when they no longer function as designed.
Or you can even use religion. In the late 80s and 90s I was in Catholic School as an atheist. I was the weird kid out.
In 2012, in Canada, saying you believe in God in public makes you the weird one these days.
And that was only 20 years to shift that dramatically.
Human creativity can often be described as "Everything is a remix", or "every post is a repost", or other such terms since the human "remake" cycle has existed since human language began.
While we used to remake myths and legends over time, causing new gods and goddesses, these days we remake our films, our books, our comics etc.
So, with that in mind, what are some things you wish would get remade? Good ideas with bad execution.
Here's my list:
Star Wars: I want someone to "Nolanize" Star Wars. I want a dark, gritty, violent Star Wars with moral relativism and the whole shebang. I'll likely have to wait for Lucas to die.
The Chronicles of Riddick: Pretend this movie didn't happen, use Pitch Black as the starting point and try again. The technology jump from Pitch Black to COR was just too huge. PB looks like it took place 100 years in the future, COR looks like it took place 1000+ years in the future.
It's not. Our brain is just the processing centre for stimuli entering our sensory organs.
The physical is all there. The perception of that stimuli may vary from person to person or animal to animal, but all of them receive that stimuli, that stimuli is there.
We're just wet machines exploring and cataloguing our surroundings and processing new ways to do that.
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Unless you can explain how a group of atoms (our brains) can go around
and "exploring and cataloguing" the other atoms around the place, I'm
going to have to say you have no idea what you are talking about.
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It's easy.
Those atoms formed into biological molecules. The ones in our brain are combined in a complicated organ capable of functions akin a to computer.
That computer is attached to a series of instruments (our eyes, nose, tasebuds etc.)
Stimuli enters those instruments, is sent to our processing center, processed, and then defined based on that processor
So we call a particular combination of atoms a rock, or a tree, but that's just how our programming language defines a combination of atoms with particular properties.
Life is nothing but a wet machine formed naturally through natural processes of mutation and adaptation.
It's not somehow special when compared to a dry machine, just different.
Our programming language is chemicals and electricity instead of binary, but it's the same idea.
Our dreams are basically like running a defrag cycle. Which is why lack of dreaming makes our brains go funny. We need that downtime for our brain to do basic filing tasks.
Our thoughts are never unique, they're just our recombination of stimuli we've encountered and cataloged.
We are literally just biological computers in a fleshy chassis.
So five years ago I made the choice to sort of remove myself from consumerism as best I could. I stopped decorating my living places, I only bought new clothes to replace clothing that fell apart, I've been wearing the same pair of shoes for over three years.
I have almost completely squashed my desire to own "stuff".
When this comes up with others, I'm always surprised at people's reaction to my life style. They act as if somehow I'm the weird one.
So I'm interested in understanding the desire to own stuff, as I never felt it nearly as strongly as most, and now have nearly eliminated it.
What drives you to buy stuff?
How much of your income would you say goes toward buying stuff of no actual mechanical use?
Cultures could exist where necromancy is totally normal.
Eberron has an entire society of good liches.
Have the two character's conflict but have the necromancer come up with a good rational and logical reason why undeath shouldn't be considered evil
Have his religion believe the soul is important while the meat means nothing.
Or have his religion believe that rising a dead enemy to help you can help lead his soul to a better afterlife.
The conflict can always be there, but the necromancer doesn't have to be evil so the conflict can come down to a matter of opinion instead of a good vs evil argument.
Well, a Tiger is a particularly hard animal to run from due to pounce and grab, but it's also an animal meaning it's easier to drive off if they can frustrate it by keeping the high AC guy in front of it.
The general problem with my players is they just don't think tactically
A military dictatorship isn't automatically Fascism.
Fascism is a very specific form of governance which often requires a dictatorship.
For example, there have been Communist dictators in history, and Fascism and Communism are on two different ends of the economic scale.
There's also been religious dictatorships without Fascist economic policies.
Sure, most people use the term Fascism the same way you're using it, but mis-representation of political ideals is what leads to a political system where no one has any clue what anything really means anymore.
While this has nothing to do with Slumbering Tsar, I did have the issue of explaining to my group 3 times last night that I will be mixing in encounters that are far higher EL than the party, so they should considering running away occasionally.
They nodded. It's like they understood. Then a dire tiger killed the barbarian (though he had one hero point left so it saved him from true death).
Anything with Ki points and Ki abilities is considered psionic. It's just a different form of psionics. As such, these abilities can be affected by anti-psionic abilities.
I don't really use psionics in my setting but that's an interesting idea. I can kind of see how that makes sense.
The monk had always bugged me being a class capable of stuff that appeared magical without being magic.
Then in 4th edition D&D, they made the monk officially a psionic class, so I just took the idea and applied it to my game.
It's just psionics that are channeled within the body, instead of expressed externally.
When I made my map with FT3, I ended up with one giant body of water with a lot of islands in it, so that entire area sort of became my Asian area where all the dragon empire stuff fits.
The beauty of making your own world is the ability to modify it when a player wants to play something that doesn't fit.
Also, Fleshgrinder, read some history. The more I learn of history, the more I relaize that NO ONE can be fully trusted with power. Even the best of intentions go astray.
Before anyone perfected anything, people failed at it thousands of times.
That is never a good argument to not keep trying to perfect something.
And the perfection of human governance is more important than most things.
I'm actually what is commonly referred to as a "libertarian socialist", I don't believe we NEED government, but I believe we need certain things to be accomplished before we can naturally progress to a stateless society.
And we cannot progress to that society when people are still armed and afraid.
We need to progress to a world where it is truly 1 government by 1 people, all 7+ billion of us.
I'm not overly concerned what a bunch of rich land and slave owners wrote down about life and liberty a couple centuries ago. I live in 2012, and I'd like us to stop trying to adapt 200+ year old systems to 2012.
Yeah, I think that's the trick to a good sandbox is having that logical consistency.
A cave within an hour of town probably wouldn't contain some horrible beast without the towns people knowing it's there, or knowing that SOMETHING is there.
That was what I did last night, I invented some encounters that made sense for areas they may go, and then if they want there I had an encounter ready to go that made perfect sense for the area.
I find that the best tool for building a sandbox is the simple question "why?"
Drop a town somewhere... why is it there? Why is it the size it is? Why does it have the qualities it does?
This allows a natural world to build up around a town and sometimes adventure locations will sort of build themselves.
To drag it back to the OP, I think the issue is that we're trying to fight the symptom not the disease.
The USA is an excessive paranoid nation compared to others. They fear their governments, their doctors, their news, their celebrities, and even invent fake organizations to fear like the illuminati.
The USA is built on fear, originally kubernismophobia (the irrational fear of government) and over time this fear became fear of basically anything different.
What do scared people want? Weapons. Even when I'm scared, having a blunt object in my hand reduces said fear. Just holding a good knife makes you feel more powerful and, hence, less afraid.
So you can take guns out of the hands of the scared people, but they're still afraid.
You have to hit the fear. You have to show people the statistics. Show them that today is safer than yesterday.
We have to get people off "the news" as they feed the public the fear.
You look at US news, and the world looks like its on the brink of destruction.
You look at the statistics and you realize we're living in an age people of history would consider Utopian.
Go check out some of the TED talks on biology and the relatively new field of "genomics" and you guys would realize that my genetic engineering "fantasies" are a lot closer to reality than you think.
We're decoding the human genome at a very fast rate.
Did you know that every human who has ever climbed Everest and survived had the same rare gene? the A.C.E. gene. This gene appears to have a direct affect on a persons ability to deal with altitude sickness and low oxygen environments.
Every male power athletes who's ever won a medal in the Olympics who also had their genes tested also all shared ONE rare gene, which was something like the "R77" gene but I don't remember it exactly. Now this gene has yet to be decoded, we don't know exactly what it does, but EVERY medal winner who ever has been tested has that gene, and it's rare.
We are already a race of walking mutants who are evolving every day. I see no harm in guiding that evolution.
Why not give every human the ACE gene? Every human the R77 gene?
We have documents that say "All men are created equal" when science KNOWS this is not the case.
But it could be the case.
Mankind represents the "turning over of the keys" from the universe to us.
True, but the media glosses over most "terrorist" attacks not committed by people with brown skin.
It's nice to see a little equality in reporting this time.
Especially considering that this is an occasion where the brown skin people were the victims.
I can only hope this tragedy will also help educate the average American to the difference between Muslims and Sikhs, though that's not to say the shooting would have been any better had it been against Muslims.
It's just kind of double sickening to me to consider that he may have killed them thinking they were something they were not.
It's an example of hatred and total ignorance combined into one package.
Despite my lack of belief in the validity of the term "terrorism", I am glad this is being labeled as domestic terrorism.
The mass majority of acts that could be considered terrorist are committed by white Christians in the US, not Muslims, and the media needs to start making sure people know this so some of this crazy fear mongering can end.
Or you could look at the environment.
The mass extinctions we've already caused.
The potential devastation of climate change.
The chemicals poisoning the waters.
The acidification of the oceans.
The mountains destroyed by strip mining.
Some has gotten better in the last few decades, some have continued getting worse. Almost all the damage done in the last few hundred years.
Again, noise. We have the technology to survive global warming. Not all of us, but enough.
We don't NEED other species. It sucks that we're wiping them out, but we can already grow meat in a tube.
Not to mention that with genetic engineering, we could potentially just modify our future generations to drink that poison water.
The humanity of the future may be half-machine hybrids living on a very different world, but they'll be there and their lives will probably be easier and happier than ours.
While I am pretty crusader-esque sometimes in my "spreading" of atheism, I try to do with with humour instead of vitriol.
Instead of saying "you're stupid for believing in god".
I would go "You do realize your religion is based on waiting for a cosmic Jewish lich to return to the earth and save us from a dude who's crimes include uniting the world's governments in 1000 years of peace.
You're basically waiting for an emaciated, undead carpenter to save us from Gandhi."
You don't have to do much to make religion sound humorous.
Thing is, in 17 years, I've never witnessed this argument at a real life table.
I've only seen this kind of stuff online.
I've walked into several of those old D&D gamedays with quite powerful characters and all it's ever done in real life is have people asking me how to build their character.
I've never seen someone set out to create a weak character.
I'm 100% with you on legalization of various drugs being the first step here. As someone pointed out above, the repeal of prohibition dealt a significant blow to organized crime of the era. Legalizing some drugs and generally treating addiction as a medical problem and not a crime worse than murder is a good start.
I also agree that fixing the behavior and perception of the police is important. Ending the war on drugs would go a long way towards this goal as well.
Unfortunatly we have people like Andrew R responding with anecdote and visceral feeling instead of actual thought. Being a country of people like that is how we got to this point and we need to turn that around.
Ever question why things become illegal? or why criminals families hate cops?
We have pretty good records on why most drugs became illegal. Mostly corporate interests (cotton, booze, etc) and racial stuff (Mexican immigrants used weed as we use beer, by making it illegal it was much easier for cops to control immigrants. We addicted blacks to cocaine when we were using them as dock workers after slavery but before the end of segregation. The cocaine made them more energetic and better workers. By eventually making it illegal, it allowed the historically fairly racist police of the south to harass and control the black population due to them already being addicted to it.)
No one even bothered to hide these reasons, they're mostly public record.
Many southern police departments use higher calibre handguns, the reason for this? "Coke-crazed negros", it's still on the books written like that.
Humanity was having a fine time using drugs for thousands of years before that.
how dare i want personal responsibility to come before unlimited lifelong welfare. And as long as they rob my paycheck to cover it it IS my concern. You do not live among the poor urban folks do you? Or do you just buy into the loser syndrome and tell them it isn't their fault they make dumb choices
Wouldn't a superior option be working toward a society where we can afford permanent welfare for everyone?
We have this problem where we're getting more technologically advanced yet still working 40 hours a week.
Aren't we building the machines to make the work easier and shorter?
Then, get this, we invent assembly lines and people actually FIGHT AGAINST the automation of manufacturing...
Our technology level is 2012, but we're using a work week and schedules designed when? A hundred years ago.
And, just an idea, but if there's 10% unemployment, why don't the rest of us work 10% less and just spread the existing work out?
See, I may be crazy, but maybe the entire point of all this was to eventually not have to work or have responsibility.
To be a little poetic for a moment, just because we got kicked out of paradise doesn't mean we're not allowed to try and build one ourselves.
