Almost everything about this post is the reverse of the metagame and in game play.
Pathfinder Cleric and Druid where the only 2 classes to get obvious nerfs going into Pathfinder because they where the 2 strongest in the game. Charisma was also a common dump stat.
3.5 Cleric had a lot of its buffs nerfed as well going into 3.5.
The 3.5 Cleric has access to some obscene support.
Point is you shouldn't be comparing the Pathfinder Cleric to one who had access to Divine metamagic, sun rods, domain feats,3.5 Divine power etc
You need 3 feats before you can take the half level multiclass. So you've severely hurt your ability to be a Bard.
You don't have a lot to spare. As a Bard you would aim for high charisma and dex, after that it's con and wisdom. 4 stats for the 4 boosts.
So what stat do you cripple for strength? Your ac and reflex, your hit points and fort or your will and perception?
It would be fling for 4d6+4, probably a typo but dex is the second most important stat for Bards. It will scale and requires no investment. But that's something to fall back on when you aren't casting spells and songs
As I pointed out this requires 75% of your feats and cripples one of your stats for an effect that doesn't come online until level 8 and scales terribly.
It's a very weak option that requires a lot of investment. Look at the suggestions being given, hit "hard" once with a weapon after a huge investment in strength and feats or just use a cantrip for similar damage.
If it's done in the future it will most likely be an archetype that scales down spell slots for melee specific features.
Dr. Gero wrote:
Of course, a lot of the Psychic specific spells are in occult as well as all the flavor, mind control, illusion,force and telekinesis.
But personally I think it would make more sense to make the Psychic an archetype for Sorcerer that uses Occult, maybe even wizard if they go for that mental library theme. You wouldn't need an entire class just for changing the components.
Nothing could be further from the truth, if a class didn't have 9th level casting it was almost certainly built towards combat. Almost every class that had 6th level casting would also have a mechanic to greatly help in combat and then you had the summoner built for combat in a roundabout way.
Not being built for direct combat was rare.
How does the damage from blasting spells stack up to archers?
This heavily upvoted post is theory crafting because I see the terrible "why use diplomacy when you have charm argument" so often. Not only does that not work in practice, it's bordering on suicidal.
The idea that being diplomatic can be replaced by robbing someone of their free will.
Party standing at court
Bard: Your majesty....
As for mass fly the party has all gotten some method of flight on there own by then and traps are stopped by a 1st level wand let alone a rogue.
Stage 1 kinetic whispers is basicly an evolutionless figment familiar.
One very important difference, if the kinetic whispers familiar gets destroyed you can just summon it again making it one of the best scouts in the game.
You send it ahead and when you stop concentrating it pops back into your head and let's you know everything its seen.
I,m curious as to why you took armour feats, as a high dex character you would have equivalent armour wearing light armour as well as avoiding the penalty to skills. With the bonus from overflow and a dex item you should have very high ac. If you can see about retraining them for the extra wild talent feats.
Kinetic form is terrible, point of burn, lower ac, take up more squares so a bigger target and harder to move around, all for extra reach.
If you don't have a caster casting haste, then boots of speed are essential. That extra attack and accuracy from haste will massively increase your damage.
You should have 2 points in your buffer at 12, save them for when you can get a full attack on big threats. If you empower the kinetic blade/whip while hasted thats almost as much damage as 3 empowered kinetic blasts in one turn.
Take the extra wild talent feat for kinetic whispers and get a familiar that offers +4 initiative. Give it the sage archetype and you've suddenly got a genius in your head that can make all sorts of knowledge skills. You can also summon an immortal scout. All this for one feat. Improved initiative is considered one of the best general feats, this is fantastic.
As for that 3rd element, I would recommend earth. You will get the sand composite which means no longer needed to worry about cold resistance or immunity, get DR as you say as well as some strong utility in picking up burrow.
Given what you are using as examples then almost every class that isn't a full caster has some sort of ability that gives an ability that increases damage as you level.
Inspire courage, smite, rage, studied combat, judgements, precise strike and so on.
Most classes that aren't full casters are given some mechanic to help with attack damage.
This is why Synthesist, although significantly weaker than regular Summoner, is so often called "overpowered"
You will also get a lot of people like myself who really disagree with the idea that it's a lot weaker.
No shared item slot issues, more feats, but most importantly it's not an Eidolon shackled to a squishy Summoner, the Syntheist is unkillable and outside of very niche things, anything that challenges the Synthesist will make paste out of the rest of the party.
Traditionally Shadows are dumb undead that are only driven by hatred and hunger and are restricted to a specific spot. Just fluff it that being a free thinking Shadow means that they can only have X amount because they need to assert control or the Shadow will just go off and do whats in its nature.
It might be a bit excessive at higher levels but at 10th level (the 15 score), how useful are 12 3HD shadows really?
Frighteningly effective in a lot of encounters. That's 12 incorporeals going in making +6 touch attacks that do 1d6 strength damage.
You need to remember this isn't just some group of shadows waiting for the PC's, this is a shadow army that can be backed by PC hijinx.
You could carry them around in a bag of holding. That's actually a good idea for a trap, shadows in a bag of holding.
An NPC is not suppose to be as effective as a PC
Excluding maybe the very last fight of the campaign or some big mistakes being made, the players should always have a notable edge, if they didn't then its just a matter of when, not if they will get wiped.
If the players win 10 fights in a row, game continues,if they lose just one the fight is over. Highlights how much things need to be stacked in their favor.
From experiencing attempts at "countering" "optimized" players, they end badly. It's a lot easier to just say no to certain options.
Aether /air kineticist
You get to the point where the only moving you need to to get by is pointing your hands when you need to attack.
For everything else you can use at will telekinesis and flight to avoid any other physical effort
Take the elemental whispers infusion for a familiar that can speak and you don't even need to bother communicating yourself.
Take the snake infusion and you can attack enemies in other rooms
Now normally I don't like the idea of using 3rd party but I'm currently playing a Kineticist in Giant Slayer, alongside an Arcanist, Alchemist and Warpriest . As we go on I notice a serious lack of magical item options, being a different mechanic they don't work with a a lot of the options other classes have and they have little support.
These are the options a well known Pathfinder 3rd party writer recommends, N.Jolly (possibly designed) and was wondering if they would be good additions as potential magic items?
That's all and good but me saying an option is "too op" isn't much of an argument. I use it as a benchmark of what to try and use, nothing against strong options but some are stupidly OP.
But if advanced armor training is an option player can take and not open to interpretation on whether it's allowed or not then the archetype is much better than I thought.
That's progression of a given ability, now we are into the idea of trying to use the fighter classes options to trade away archetype features, never mind that some of the options you listed aren't PFS legal. This seems like a rules nightmare.
Mithral full plate costs 10'500. 1500 + 9000. A +1 Mitral fullplate at 12'500 would be cheaper than the equivalent +4 breastplate at 16'200 as well as being cheaper to progress from there.
I considered taking the steelblooded archetype on a tanky Bloodrager build using the destined bloodline and reading carefully see it as a weak option. With one feat you can use mithral full plate with no downsides, counts as medium for everything but proficiency penalties which the feat takes care of.
Unless I'm missing something, armor training stacks with fighter levels for how high armor training gets but you don't count as a fighter for anything else. Armored specialization is based on how many levels of fighter you have.
I am Nemesis wrote:
Except what Batman does is torture.
He inflicts physical pain and emotional anguish to to retrieve information.
The only difference between Batman and the strapped to the table stuff everyone is thinking about is that the story doesn't go too far.
Wouldn't that be more appropriate for training social skills? To be clear, I'm asking about Charisma, not skills. And yes, I do realize that greatly limits available options. That's why I'm stumped.
Working as a host or a job that makes an effort to deal with people would improve both, but if you aren't increasing your diplomacy you could say your general demeanor changes becoming a more sociable person (charisma) but you never remember or pick up the ability to make a conscious effort to win people over (diplomacy)
This is fantasy setting so it's also within reason that these things increase to superhuman levels the way characters in comics or mangas who are technically normal humans develop abilities beyond reasonable limits.
The character becomes a high level adventurer and charismatic appeal shines out their ass. The sun shines at their back when they enter town and glittery lights appears around their eyes when they smile.
Same logic applies to looking for a vendor who sells high level, expensive magic items.
If this is a home game some of those weapons are likely to be disallowed for being uniques.
It's as Gaming Ranger says. Your AC is way off. You will have other sources of AC from magic items and the barkskin spell.
You can play a half elf instead for the same FCB, half elves have an option for a free exotic weapon proficiency which opens up something like a faulchard.
Correct, enlarge does not stack with wildshape.
GM giving it to you is the best option.
Although this is based on personal experience of having never used the aging bonuses and penalties, immortality has always been more of an RP award, like a big house or a title, I'd never require a player take it in place of an actual mechanical ability.
But I'll not be that guy and help out as not every GM will share my thinking.
There's a Bard masterpiece, Song of extinction. Every person you kill with it extends your life by a year so it's incredibly easy to get immortality with that.
When a favored class bonus shows a fraction it's how many levels you need to get the listed bonus, in this case a third of 1 which is +1 every 3 levels.
+1 AC every 3 levels is fantastic.
The wildshape bonus is also available to elves and half-elves and if you are picking half orc for the luck bonus there is a slotless magic item the lucky horseshoe that can give you the same bonus.
Sure but none of that first paragraph actually goes against what I said. Charisma is physical beauty, charisma is also the sound of your voice, charisma is also your attitude.
Probably did but this falls under the argument that charisma/diplomacy is not mind control.
Actually it was his appearance, I'm sure Achilles didn't look like Danny Devito. But this is also a weird aspect of charisma and intimidate and would probably be more common with women where you could have a woman who is really likable but couldn't intimidate a newborn pup.
It's terrible and if someone playing a kineticist envied the Witch they would be playing a Witch. The picked the kineticist because they liked the utility powers and wanted to be good at blasting, not terrible.
Ask your GM if a pyrokinesis will be terrible in your campaign even if they where to take feats and infusions to help mitigate the issues and if so pick another element. Honing in on a specific downside for one class is not a good defence of another.
The best way to sum up the havocker is that it trades good at will abilities for a terrible one.
Charisma is definitely physical beauty. I see some examples, there's one at the top that describes an attractive but anti-social girl as someone who isn't charismatic. They may not be as charismatic as someone whose outgoing but being attractive definitely will make people more likely to want to be around you, open up or trust you. It's why villains are stereotypically unattractive and if a villain is attractive they have lots of fans.
If you want a good if exaggerated example watch the Bubble episode of 30 Rock.
Looks definitely matter though. The whole Trojan war was fault at its base over a beautiful woman. I believe Looks and personality should be alternate stats.
That would just make things needlessly complicated. It would be like splitting intelligence for different kinds of thinking.
Use the kineticist as a template for blasting damage, give them the spell like abilities you want the character to have instead of utilities.
Don't use an element, instead just describe the blast as green eldritch energy or however you imagine it.
For the harasser aspect you can use the wall infusion and ride the blast. Won't have those both until level 12 but if that's too high you can always just let the NPC have them without making them that high a level.
I don't see the issue here. The high level martials are doing there main goal well and not using some obscure cheese to do it.
If this had been a thread about how the casters where dominating everything people would just say "well that's high level pathfinder"
I also guess that there is some focused vision here. There are surely lots of scenarios where even with flying kick and pounce martials will only get 1 attack or not attacks at all and the focus is on those rounds where everything worked out perfectly for them.
Summons have no will of their own. It's best to view them as figments of the real thing.
That's why with summon monster spells you can summon a demon to protect an orphanage of baby Paladins from an attack by real demon who don't wash their hands after going to the toilet.
It's only calling spells where you need to bargain with or threaten the real thing does their personal motivations become an issue.
It's not about optimum, you said yourself you changed your character just to be a heal bot.
1. The cost of wands is negligible, especially when the reward of buying them is getting to play the class you want.
2. That's a bad example. You are comparing yourself to classes that only needs to prepare spells whereas you've given up a part of the kineticists very limited options to do this, you should be comparing it to a healer that has also invested permanent class features.
3. We have different opinions of what invulnerable is, sure you don't die but you still become useless when out cold which makes a TPK more likely. Every time you heal you bring your permanent combat effectiveness for the day down, 4 characters are hurt out of your parties 8 (6 + 2 pets) and require 4 heals and your 20 con of combat effective hit points becomes 12 and sure they can take the burn but I wouldn't want a kineticist healing me if it meant my character was easier to defeat for the rest of the day. A character with a wand of cure light wounds will be at full effectiveness.
You can get away with moving an object and standing on it. I see no issue with using it to bypass mundane obstacles and that falls within what you can get away with. But grabbing people is changing the rules and it's not intended to allow you to position people in battle.
Also why are you a healer? Kineticists suck as healers, you lower your max hit points to heal.
The best healer in pathfinder is a wand of cure light wounds.
High level characters.
I've never played mythic but I assume that it would be easier to get than 10 mythic levels or any ring of deflection for that matter.
Even if it was untyped it's still a poor ability that you would almost never get any use out of. The ability to gather for a full round is there but I've yet to be in a situation where it's worth it before you even factor in the horrible downside of taking any damage.
For what are likely to be the last kineticist options I was very disappointed.
Which of course you will have, you won't forgo an important magic item that offers a deflection bonus all the time because an ability gives you one situationally in a situation you never actually want to be. Gathering power outside of your own turn is just asking for trouble and the class makes it clear that the world knows what you are doing.
I was about to suggest that myself.
Unchained Monk with a 2 handed weapon is incredibly effective. Take the ascetic style feats. It lets you apply feats and class features for unarmed attacks to your weapons, including style strikes.
Unchained Monks get their dimension door ability at level 8, much earlier than vanilla monks. Start taking the dimensional feats.
You get a ki ring which lowers the cost of ki powers by 1, minimum 1, this lets you use the monks dimension door for 1 ki point.
At level 10 you take ki leech power so you gain a ki point back every time you crit or kill someone.