Kineticist Wishlist- What kind of Kineticists would you like to see Pathfinder come up with next?


Advice and Rules Questions

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So far Paizo has come up with 7 different kinds of Kineticists for us players to try out. But what other kinds of kineticists would you like to see them develop in future Pathfinder products?

Personally I would like to see:

1) Electrokinesis

I know that Electricity currently is a part of Aerokinesis. Why I am not really sure. But I can imagine that this form of kinesis could come in handy in places like Numeria.

2) Cryokinesis

Like electricity, cold is currently a part of hydrokinesis. But I think this form of kinesis could stand on it's own.

3) Audiokinesis

Sometimes mistaken for bards, these kineticists are their own sound-system. ;)

4) Photokinesis

Like #3, I can imagine that these guys can be mistaken for illusionists. And if a photokineticist was to expand into audiokinesis (or vice versa)... ;)


Courrain wrote:

So far Paizo has come up with 7 different kinds of Kineticists for us players to try out. But what other kinds of kineticists would you like to see them develop in future Pathfinder products?

Personally I would like to see:

1) Electrokinesis

I know that Electricity currently is a part of Aerokinesis. Why I am not really sure. But I can imagine that this form of kinesis could come in handy in places like Numeria.

2) Cryokinesis

Like electricity, cold is currently a part of hydrokinesis. But I think this form of kinesis could stand on it's own.

3) Audiokinesis

Sometimes mistaken for bards, these kineticists are their own sound-system. ;)

4) Photokinesis

Like #3, I can imagine that these guys can be mistaken for illusionists. And if a photokineticist was to expand into audiokinesis (or vice versa)... ;)

Positive and Negative energy

Expansion to the Void and Wood elements already published: they're pretty sparse.

Lots More Composite Blasts - If I'm Water (Cold) planning to expand into Air, I'm stuck Air Blast to get a composite as there's no Cold/Electric blast. Even worse situation if I wanted to pick Earth, as I don't see a Cold/Anything blast for earth.

More utility talents at more appropriate levels: Why can't my water kin breathe underwater when the air kin can at second level (air bubble)?

More choice in utility talents!

The above isn't a criticism by the way - just hunger for more Paizo Stuff (tm) for Kins. We don't use third-party products, so Mr. Jolly's supplement isn't a goer.

Silver Crusade

santherus wrote:
The above isn't a criticism by the way - just hunger for more Paizo Stuff (tm) for Kins. We don't use third-party products, so Mr. Jolly's supplement isn't a goer.

It's all good, I used to be just as 1st party loyal so I can understand the weariness of 3P products. Personally a lot of the ideas listed above were some of the ones I wanted to take further myself which is why I did KOP, and I can admit that there's still stuff that I'd love to see Mark and Paizo's take on. Doesn't mean I won't scout this thread to see what people still want though.

I'd like to think I know balance well enough to avoid making problems at most tables since I am a guide writer though, and the Kineticist itself was written by a fellow guide writer (Mark did write the guide for the Rogue.) Always use what you're comfortable including, since the PF spectrum is as wide as CRB to 3P, and everyone has different comfort levels for things like that.

More composite blast would be nice, and I'd like to see more unique composite blast, things that maybe took a step down in damage but got some neat little rider effect.


Earth, plants, metal, air, lightning, fire, ice, water, light, dark, sound, blood, tele... what other "kinesis" are there even?

Technokinesis maybe, but that's very campaign specific.

Acid just doesn't "feel" right, since it causes burns I can be okay using a Pyro refluffed as acid just fine. It can even do acid instead of fire damage without changing much, maybe a few talents are different but really it's pretty fine as is for the most part. It doesn't do enough unique things to matter much in the grand scheme of things, IMO.

I don't know many other "kinesis".

I had an idea for Ectokinesis, to give the class something (anything) to tie it to the occult feel of Occult Adventures. I can see it working, but it would need to be focused on using the power of ectoplasm against normal people, not hyper focused on killing ethereal undead (of which there aren't many in most campaigns). Mine was a variation of Aetherkineticist, and I still think they'd do most of the same stuff. There's some pretty cool things Ectokinesis could do on its own though, enough to make a separate element at least in theory.

What else? Biokinesis is handled well enough by a wood/tele mix, or blood kineticist archetype. I don't feel it needs one of its own given the current options.

Yeah, past that I've got nothing. Expand what exists, maybe separate the joined elements to make it more standardized once each element has a more unique flavor and wider selection of talents.

I do wish we could be more free in how we take expanded element though. I feel like more basic kinesis and blast types is not so overpowered if you have to lose wild talents to take them. You get a broader range of abilities, but become overall less adept at any one of them. The only person it really benefits is someone who only wants a few utility talents of each element, and a bunch of universal infusions.


New elements such as light, life/positive energy, time, sound, magic, metal, ectoplasm/spirit, animal/beast/vermin, and technology.

More infusions, utility talents, etc. for existing elements.

Shadow Lodge

There already is one that deals negative energy damage.

I just want them to get the equivalent to an amulet of mighty fists, that applies to their blasts. That would open up the slew of weapon enchantments, and help a lot.


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Never fear Paizonians! The Flying Pincushion Games is working like mad to bring you MORE kineticist elements, new archetypes, new talents, new items, and more in our upcoming Into the Breach: The Kineticist!

(actually I am writing some of the book, this class turned out to be a bear to write stuff for actually, but we shall endure.)


Shape shifting kineticist confirmed


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I'm not particulary big on the idea of new kineticists using energy types that don't have resistances.

I am all go for one that uses the power of Heart.


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I'd love some archetypes which change the flavor of the kineticist's power source. For example: What about a kineticist who draws his power from the spirit(s) of dragons instead of getting it from an elemental plane?


Matrix Dragon wrote:
I'd love some archetypes which change the flavor of the kineticist's power source. For example: What about a kineticist who draws his power from the spirit(s) of dragons instead of getting it from an elemental plane?

Heheheh. *winks at someone else in this thread*


Drahliana, you are not the first to make this statement, in fact, we joke about the "heart" element often at The Flying Pincushion, still makes me laugh though, thanks I needed that!

(who knows, maybe we can actually make that work, ahh the 90's, you had such great shows)

Dragons you say, hmmm...::tents fingers::


I'd like more options for the existing elements, rather than new ones.
Options to get appropriate SLAs would be cool (possibly from the wiz elemental school lists).
Alternate basics and powers to allow further specializations (air->more electric, earth->more metal) or branch into other directions (wood->beasts/hearts, tele->sonics, fire->light) would give more choices at each level and more use to the extra talent feat..


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Osteokinesis being able to control ones bones
could throw bone shards, make weapons, wrap themselves in the bone etc.
Ex
Marrow from X-men
Kimimaro from Naruto


Heart/Love as an element, that would be interesting.


Is umbrakinesis a thing yet? manipulating darkness and shadows.

Liberty's Edge

Control of animals

Control of Nature

Control of the Mind

Control of the Soul ?

Control of spells

Control of magic/metamagic

Control of physical abilities

Control of mental abilities

Control of attributes, skills, feats, class features

Control of poisons

Control of diseases

Control of traps, constructs, devices

Control of the body, Shapechanging

Control of shadows

Control of summons

Control of movement

Control of weapons

Basically any part of the game


How about a metakineticist?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thaumokinesis: The manipulation of raw magic. A blast of doves, handkerchiefs and playing cards. Disappear from any confinement! Pull an infinite number of rabbits from a single hat.

Liberty's Edge

A negakineticist. Negating other creatures' control over elements, or even magic


The mind would also make an interesting element as well.

The shadow element would also be cool even if void gets a few darkness themed abilities.


- An archetype with a focus on composite blasts
- More love for the wood and void (especially wood) elements
- An archetype that infuses their powers into the weapons and armor they're proficient in (no not you elemental ascetic)
- A team-player archetype that gives up their power to better help others (such as spreading their elemental defense to allies)
- More wondrous items focused on the kineticist


A melee kineticist that isn't a monk knock-off. It'd be nice to actually be able to use some of the blasts through melee ala spellstrike, instead of giving up all ranged attacks like the elemental ascetic. :v


::scribbling notes furiously::

@ Ashram I can promise you melee and missile telekineticist PrC's have been created for the upcoming book (I should know, it is like I wrote them or something such :) )

@ Onyx Tanuki more items both mundane and magical is also on the docket for our new book (yep, you guessed it, I am writing those too)

Oww, some really good stuff getting tossed around here, Osteokinesis sounds awesome, emotion/heart could work well, dragons are always good, umbrakinesis....yep, I like it.

Going to check in here from time to time to see what new awesome ideas are being bandied about. Kudos ladies and gents, you brainstorm well!


Flying Pincushion Games wrote:

::scribbling notes furiously::

@ Ashram I can promise you melee and missile telekineticist PrC's have been created for the upcoming book (I should know, it is like I wrote them or something such :) )

@ Onyx Tanuki more items both mundane and magical is also on the docket for our new book (yep, you guessed it, I am writing those too)

Oww, some really good stuff getting tossed around here, Osteokinesis sounds awesome, emotion/heart could work well, dragons are always good, umbrakinesis....yep, I like it.

Going to check in here from time to time to see what new awesome ideas are being bandied about. Kudos ladies and gents, you brainstorm well!

Sweet, glad to hear it. I'm a huge Golden Sun fan, so being able to mix and match melee and ranged elemental attacks will be awesome.

Also, on the shadow kineticists, try and keep to the Greek naming theme, although I'm not sure what the Greek root word for shadow or darkness would be.


By the power of google, such things can be learned :) (totally how I learn stuff like that, as I otherwise suck an languages that are not English)

Umbra is the latin word for darkness BTW, some umbrakinesis would be correct in fact.

Yeah, I noticed the greek root word was skia, alas, to me that sounds less awesome than umbrakinesis, but Paizo likes the Greek, so Greek it is, this should be an interesting naming challenge, its all Greek to me LOL


Flying Pincushion Games wrote:

By the power of google, such things can be learned :) (totally how I learn stuff like that, as I otherwise suck an languages that are not English)

Umbra is the latin word for darkness BTW, some umbrakinesis would be correct in fact.

Umbra is indeed Latin, but each of the core elements (Geo, Aero, Pyro, Hydro/Cryo, Tele; plus Phyto and Chao) uses the Greek root word, and even kinetic is Greek.

Based on a quick Google Translate search, the word for shadow or darkness in Greek is skiá (skee-AH). So something along the lines of skiákineticist.


The elemental annihilator is a monk knock off?


Pathfinder Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Into the Breach: the Kineticist sounds really cool, but everyone interested in the class should be aware that Purple Duck Games has already released Kineticists of Porphyra, which includes the light, sound and time elements, as well as more composite blasts and archetypes. I think it's a pretty good book myself.


Thanks for the heads up, we are indeed aware of Kineticists of Porphyra, and yes, it is a good book, but we at The Flying Pincushion still want our chance to do the Kineticist our way :).

Silver Crusade

The Mortonator wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
I'd love some archetypes which change the flavor of the kineticist's power source. For example: What about a kineticist who draws his power from the spirit(s) of dragons instead of getting it from an elemental plane?
Heheheh. *winks at someone else in this thread*

And now you're reminding me of yet ANOTHER thing I have to work on. This thread's already given me like 10 new ideas...

deathbyflossing wrote:
Into the Breach: the Kineticist sounds really cool, but everyone interested in the class should be aware that Purple Duck Games has already released Kineticists of Porphyra, which includes the light, sound and time elements, as well as more composite blasts and archetypes. I think it's a pretty good book myself.

Thanks, I worked pretty hard on it and took a LOT of suggestions from the community on what you all wanted to see with it which I think helped make a better book. I should be doing a follow up later if time permits with more community suggestions.

Flying Pincushion Games wrote:
Thanks for the heads up, we are indeed aware of Kineticists of Porphyra, and yes, it is a good book, but we at The Flying Pincushion still want our chance to do the Kineticist our way :).

I personally really want to see what Into the Breach: Kineticist will be like, I'm anxious to review it myself. I'm up for discussing things with anyone who has Kineticist 3P or even just homebrew that they want critique on, although some of the things FPG games talked about including are things I don't think I could do justice, so I'd suggest checking out what they're going to put out, I know I'm going to as soon as it comes out!


Azten wrote:
The elemental annihilator is a monk knock off?

No, it's just a bad archetype. :v

The elemental ascetic is the one I was referring to.


Shadow element.

positive energy (possibly a soul control theme).

Metal as a stand alone element.

Poison archetype of wood element, would make for awesome NPCs.

A new rule/feat tax establishing a way to combine any two elements into a composite (energy + energy results in X, energy + physical results in Y, physical + physical results in Z) and allowing any infusions of either base blast type. This could also allow you to double up known blasts for double cold or double gravity.

My friggin light saber magic item! maybe one that can be enchanted with weapon ability modifiers (who doesnt want a coldfire/icy burst fire blade?). Balance wise make it so that you have to pay full burn cost for the blast and infusions without any gather power or other burn control to activate it 1/day?

an archetype to overly specialize in a single blast, so that going only air allows a huge boost to a basic aerokinesis and extra talents only available to specific specializations.

An archetype to focus on replacing yourself with elemental matter, eventually becoming a kind of half elemental template?


Ashram wrote:
Azten wrote:
The elemental annihilator is a monk knock off?

No, it's just a bad archetype. :v

The elemental ascetic is the one I was referring to.

I wouldn't consider it bad at all, even with the loss of utility talents. There's a few people here on the boards that, where damage is concerned, an Annihilator is much better than a base Kineticist.


N. Jolly wrote:
The Mortonator wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
I'd love some archetypes which change the flavor of the kineticist's power source. For example: What about a kineticist who draws his power from the spirit(s) of dragons instead of getting it from an elemental plane?
Heheheh. *winks at someone else in this thread*
And now you're reminding me of yet ANOTHER thing I have to work on. This thread's already given me like 10 new ideas...

I feel you.

Speaking of which, N. Jolly is already aware, but I have my own little project with the working title Just Kineticist Things. It should be at 3P quality (or above, shots fired!) and I am debating where it would be worth starting a 3P solo company for it. Regardless, it will feature at least:

Revaped Shadowdancer: The feature you didn't know you wanted! Kineticist has set a precedent that will be looked at for a new take on a classic (and underpowered) PrC.
New Elements: I can't say too much here. Only that a new dawn will rise against the world of man.
A New System: A new system that would solve a lot of the issues already brought up in this very threads! This system is intend to work along side Pathfinder as a very friendly complement. However, it also includes homebrew friendly rules for a cool adjustment that I know many players want.
Double the Content: The planned end point more than doubles the scope of the Kineticist content already out on every front except Infusion Wild Talents.
Prestigious Kineticists: Need I say more?
Fun for more Classes!: The Kineticist isn't the only one getting love as Kineticist class features overflow into old friends. Fighters become cold as ice Winter Warriors. Rogues steal a few Kineticist tricks... particularly of the poisonous variety. And Hunters will hunt you down without traditional magic.

The race is on!

Silver Crusade

Azten wrote:
Ashram wrote:
Azten wrote:
The elemental annihilator is a monk knock off?

No, it's just a bad archetype. :v

The elemental ascetic is the one I was referring to.

I wouldn't consider it bad at all, even with the loss of utility talents. There's a few people here on the boards that, where damage is concerned, an Annihilator is much better than a base Kineticist.

I can see why people don't like it, it BARELY made green on my guide, and that was purely for damage. Losing utility wild talents and gaining feats was tragic, but the damage keeps it at like a low tier 4/high tier 5, which isn't what some people want.

For a melee character, I like Kinetic Duelist myself from KOP, it gives a very 'warrior' feel while still keeping most of the basic components of the class and mixes with a lot of archetypes.

Also for those of you who were interested in Mort's work, I'm helping along with it to make sure that it'll be balanced as well as flavorful. Their Shadow Dancer revamp is something that I really want to see finished, and they have a lot of solid ideas that I think are going to really help people enjoy the class.


An ability and/or feat then lets you use your Con mod on attacks rolls.

An ability and/or feat that lets you add your Con mod to your CMD.

An archetype that lets you replace a infusion or utility power for a sorcerer bloodline power, you can use your Cha mod for damage, save DCs, etc. instead of Con if you want. The sorcerer bloodline 20th level cap ability replaces the kineticist's 20th level cap. Maybe get some bloodline spells as spell powers. You must choose one bloodline that will you have.

Alternate 20 level cap powers for each element, no archetype needed.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I'd like some serious expansions to some of the weaker elements. Especially plant.

And a lot more composite blasts.

Also agree that maybe some of the sub-elements (like lightning and cold and gravity) could be separated or at least more firmly defined within their specialization.

As for new disciplines, the most obvious I think is that there's no acetokineticist. Past that you get into weird ideas and I think a lot of the stuff above sounds good.

Liberty's Edge

Ashram wrote:
Flying Pincushion Games wrote:

By the power of google, such things can be learned :) (totally how I learn stuff like that, as I otherwise suck an languages that are not English)

Umbra is the latin word for darkness BTW, some umbrakinesis would be correct in fact.

Umbra is indeed Latin, but each of the core elements (Geo, Aero, Pyro, Hydro/Cryo, Tele; plus Phyto and Chao) uses the Greek root word, and even kinetic is Greek.

Based on a quick Google Translate search, the word for shadow or darkness in Greek is skiá (skee-AH). So something along the lines of skiákineticist.

Nyctakineticist. Nycta = Night


Oww, that one sounds really good Raven, better than skia!


I think it is actually just Nyct- or possibly Nycti- Nycto-. But the again I only speak Latin. They do sound better than the fomer though.


Necktie? Nectar? Nickle?


^ I don't even have to click on the link to know what that is. :D


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Kineticist of Porphyra has a LOT of stuff for Kineticists ^_^


The Mortonator wrote:
I think it is actually just Nyct- or possibly Nycti- Nycto-. But the again I only speak Latin. They do sound better than the fomer though.

It'd be nyctokineticist. I do admit, it does sound better.


Yeah, I said your words, more or less....


Eh, I think we need an expansion of the elements we already have (especially, but not limited to, Wood & Void) more than more elements. Could really use more utilities--let's have more practical uses for such powers.
And there are some I just cannot see happening...light for one. Let's have a kineticist who can cast Sunbeam all day long?! Not likely.
And I have already said that the Bard should be the master of sound, thank you very much. The Sound Striker archetype is fantastic, IMO. If you haven't seen last March's FAQ, Weirdwords has been fixed--and improved, IMO (aside from performance costs).


Light blast would not be like sunbeam(except with a high level infusion) and the it would be blocked/reduced power vs magical darkness effects.

I say we need both expanded powers for existing elements and new elements.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Look if an alchemist can use Holy Bombs and Hellfire Bombs why can't the kineticist get something similer?

The one pet peeve I have is on the fact that a pure Fire Kineticist has a bit of a problem dealing with many extraplaner enemies, draining infusion helps to deal with elementals, and pure flame helps to deal with spell resistence, but

Spell Resistence =/= Energy Resistence

All I am asking for is something like the winter witches PrC Unnatural Cold to deal with pesky foes like Dragons, Devils and Demons that may have immunity or high resistence to said fire damage.


As someone wanting to make an appropriate Jedi and/or Sith, straight up force energy (as in THE Force) including Jedi mind tricks. I know there is void and aether and those are both good but I want an expansion of aether as something that connects us all like string theory or the Force or God, whichever you prefer.

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