Shadows in the Dark (Inactive)

Game Master Edeldhur

Hey everyone,

We have all been here in some shape or form before, in a private thread set up by me to discuss games and gaming in a forum of ‘like minded people’, or even more simply put, people with whom I have enjoyed a lot playing in the past :D

I will repeat something I have also said in the past - 'most of you know my thoughts about gaming in general, and PF in specific, what bothers me, what frustrates me and what I like about it. Some of you will know this better than others because you have most likely been a victim of one of my ‘old gamer’ rants, etc'

With that being said, I am at it again. I did ponder beforehand if it would be a good idea or not, but in all honesty nowadays I find there is more worth in actually doing things, than simply mulling them over eternally. Also another reason why I like less and less the looooong dragged recruitments here in the Paizo forums… But my complains are not what we are here for today.

In any case, my preference goes to gathering a few ‘good ones’ instead of opening a Recruitment thread (not saying I cannot/will not do that in the future, but for now would prefer to keep it contained). You all also know my appreciation for Pathfinder 1e, even if I do not like the current state of things. It IS a great game, with amazing resources and a tremendous community. Unfortunately I don't think it is the best game for PbP, unless you have a lot of time on your hands to make sure you take advantage of its tactical side and mechanical options, because let's face it, that IS an interesting side of Pathfinder 1e. Unfortunately I do not have that kind of availability.

So I am interested in exploring alternative systems which may strike me as interesting as far as character options and system complexity go, but also which might be easily ported into PbP. Bottom line, I like some crunch and options, but I also want a more streamlined approach to my DMing.

And that is why I would like to give Shadowdark a try with you. Why Shadowdark is something I hope we will have ample opportunity to discuss right here. Suffice to say I feel the system is worth a try.

Even though my preferred games are sandboxes, the plan here would be to start simple, most likely with something pre-written and episodic (of course it will be impossible not to paint outside the lines a bit :D), for us to get the feel of the system, how it plays, how interesting it is (or not), and how well it works with PbP. And if it fits the kind of game we want to run/play (this is another subject which will require revisiting here in this Discussion, but all things in due time ;))

So… Thoughts? Questions? Comments?

A very interesting set of rules. I does feel like it focuses more on story telling than min/maxing. I like the simplicity, it reminds me a little of the original D&D, I do like that most tasks, just happen automatically, but that some will require a 'Difficulty roll' which keeps everyone honest.

As far as the basic rules go, I'd prefer picking a background and assigning my stats instead of rolling them in order. It felt like the 'spell casters' got the short end of the stick. Between a very limited number of spells known by spell tier and rolling DC 10 + the spell's tier. It just felt limiting. I do have one question the rules say

RESULTS:

If you succeed on your spellcasting check, the spell takes effect.
If you fail your spellcasting check, the spell does not take effect. You can’t cast that spell again until you complete a rest.

Does that mean you only lose the spell if you fail the spellcasting check? That may make it worth the risk...

It reminds me a little of the old 'Traveller' rules, the GM needs to have a potential idea for 'difficulty rolls' and must be able to come up with some on the fly. I think you'd still run into some of the 'same old problems' depending on the way you do initiative and such. Obviously, we wouldn't be using a timer here on the boards.

I've been expanding my willingness to try new rules. Within the last year I've been in a Mutants and Masterminds game, a Traveller Game, a PF2 Game and I'm still in a D&D5 game. So, it wouldn't hurt to give this a go. I would do a 'intro story' and see how it went.

Edit: Yeah, and no way those pregen characters were rolled :)

A very interesting set of rules. I does feel like it focuses more on story telling than min/maxing. I like the simplicity, it reminds me a little of the original D&D, I do like that most tasks, just happen automatically, but that some will require a 'Difficulty roll' which keeps everyone honest.

As far as the basic rules go, I'd prefer picking a background and assigning my stats instead of rolling them in order. It felt like the 'spell casters' got the short end of the stick. Between a very limited number of spells known by spell tier and rolling DC 10 + the spell's tier. It just felt limiting.

Hey Robert, fancy finding you here :)

I think for the first time around it could be interesting to embrace the randomness. I was considering the possibility of rolling a couple of characters over at Shadowdarklings, and then allowing people to choose from the rolled ones. Option 2 is you tell me what you want to play, and I roll the pregen. But we are getting ahead of ourselves. First decision is regarding Classes, and for a first endeavor I feel like the SD Core ones are enough - Fighter, Priest, Thief Wizard.

I do have one question the rules say

Players Guide wrote:

RESULTS:

If you succeed on your spellcasting check, the spell takes effect.
If you fail your spellcasting check, the spell does not take effect. You can’t cast that spell again until you complete a rest.

Does that mean you only lose the spell if you fail the spellcasting check? That may make it worth the risk...

I see what you mean, and looking at the amount of spells known by spellcasters, it seems to make sense it works like that. Subject to confirmation.

It reminds me a little of the old 'Traveller' rules, the GM needs to have a potential idea for 'difficulty rolls' and must be able to come up with some on the fly. I think you'd still run into some of the 'same old problems' depending on the way you do initiative and such. Obviously, we wouldn't be using a timer here on the boards.

I've been expanding my willingness to try new rules. Within the last year I've been in a Mutants and Masterminds game, a Traveller Game, a PF2 Game and I'm still in a D&D5 game. So, it wouldn't hurt to give this a go. I would do a 'intro story' and see how it went.

I am expecting to use published stuff to start with - hope that will help with getting some practice with DCs and such. Initiative I feel like it would be relegated to Combat as usual, but I need to take a second look at it.

Good to hear you are willing to give it a go! ;)

Hmmmm went over to the shadowdarklings site and rolled a dozen or so characters. Some of those numbers can be rough....

I'm willing to play a short intro game. Rolling the background and stats. I like the core classes enough that anything I wanted to play could be built with them. But the random background and stats make it rough to want to play a long term game.

The characters I enjoy tend to be competent. Random background and stats almost make that impossible. I want to background to fit the 'build' which does make random difficult.

So does shadowdarkling make modules?

So does shadowdarkling make modules?

How so?

As for the rest, I think embracing the randomness can be a good thing as a first trial. It can surprise you.

As an example, I have recently began playing in an AD&D1e game, and 5 sessions in my Dwarf Fighter with a stat spread of 12, 7, 11, 9, 13, 6 keeps holding his own. When I rolled him I thought he would be crap, but he is not crap at all.

As another example, I have two Shadowdark characters in two separate games, one has a stat spread of 13, 16, 12, 8, 12, 15 and the other a 14, 13, 10, 12, 11, 8 and they are both alive and well, holding their own, even though Shadowdark is lethal.

So it might be important to adjust expectations regarding characters and how they perform according to their stats vs PF1e for example. Randomness and pregens are good for that, and of course I would not let anyone play with a severely diminished character. Unless they wanted to ;)

In any case, this is just a first experiment - there is a lot of material out there to expand on Shadowdark, but we need to/should start small.

To be honest, so far the only things which kinda throw me off in Shadowdark are the fact no character race can see in the dark (how do scouts actually do their job in a dungeon? It is something I have a very hard time wrapping my head around, the lack of Infravision), and the torch timer - yep I know, it is one of the main schticks of SD, but... I am not sure I like it. However, the light resource management is so central to the game, I don't think it can be removed without breaking something.

Hey all! Well, Edeldhur and RH. I’m happy to use Shadowdark, it’s simple and with enough little moving parts to keep it interesting.

Two things:

1st: Given it is a “new ruleset” (in that it is new to us, though somewhat akin to the game some of us actually started with last century) I am going to be “voting” along the lines of RH - let us try to make the character we want among the options on offer. Personally I’m entirely too picky, so my “characters I enjoy” thing is less “competent” and more “definitely *not* certain classes/races/combinations”.

2nd: I really don’t see anything that is going to break if we remove the torches/time thing. Firstly, it will be crappe via PbP, and secondly I don’t think I’m up for the concept of torch=central motif regardless of the ruleset. And then you can add infravision back in, if you want. Look, we are trying something, so let’s try that, or something similar.

I know it seems like I’m saying “let the players have what they want” but also “let’s be experimental with the ruleset”….but….oh hey….look at the pretty clouds!

*waves* ninja'd by Oceanshieldwolf, Hey Oceanshieldwolf! I'll leave the post as is.

Robert Henry wrote:

So does shadowdarkling make modules?

How so?

I am expecting to use published stuff to start with

So I wondered if they printed stuff you could run.

As for the rest, I think embracing the randomness can be a good thing as a first trial. It can surprise you.

Dwarf Fighter with a stat spread of 12, 7, 11, 9, 13, 6 ...13, 16, 12, 8, 12, 15... 14, 13, 10, 12, 11, 8

there is a lot of material out there to expand on Shadowdark, but we need to/should start small.

To be honest, so far the only things which kinda throw me off in Shadowdark are the fact no character race can see in the dark

I actually thought that was interesting, it made everyone needing light, which of course is their schtick, combining in game time to real time. Obviously, we can't do that with PBP, though we can keep track of time and light in game.

I find the rules interesting and simplified. But sinse I know the pathfinder rules for the characters I like to play, simplifying doesn't change anything for me. I get it, if you learning something new, or writing/GMing, it make perfect sense. I've been running a game now for almost two years. I started running it as a bid to get in a game one of the other players was running, sort of a quid-pro-quo, and of course they stopped running the game I was in after a few months. But I'd invited a friend to play in my game so I'm still running it. I have to ask the other players (who are all GM's) how to manage stuff almost every week. It's like doing homework for a class I like. Interesting but not all that enjoyable. So If I were to GM I'd want a much simpler system to run like this one :)

I think a quick intro game with pregen or random rolled characters would be great. But I do find that one of the elements that keep me interested in long term games is my investment level into the characters back story. What do you think of the idea of rolling several characters, and creating a detailed back story for the one the player finds the most interesting? That would be similar to letting them place stats and pick backgrounds, but not exactly the same.

Edit:Oh, and full HP at first level.... dude almost half of the characters I rolled up playing with the system had only one HP. That person isn't going adventuring, there working at a 7-11 for their cousin.

Heh, RH and I seem to circle around the same things but from opposite ends. I don’t really like getting too caught up in backstory as I like to work that out as I go along after generating a very basic….genesis? - but I definitely want to be in control of choosing my race and class!

Torches/light/timing won’t be a dealbreaker but I’m not going to be too interested in it, bookkeeping for it or the negative effects thereof. It doesn’t do enough to make the game more fraught, anxious, dangerous or compelling…it just makes it…irritating?

Definitely want full HP at first level, pretty sure the only sample character sheet I’ve seen for Shadowdark *specifically* had max HP. Not sure why… ;)

As were talking about character build methodology, I like young characters just starting on their hero's journey. I tend to pick two or three tropes that will fit the character. Then give them background that describes where they came from.

In most cases it's more a backstory on their parents or the people who raised them and a little of their childhood, that sort of thing so their grounded. Sort of like the replicants in the second blade runner (I just realized that, but it's sort of true)

Then I use the tropes as a foundation that I relate back to. But who they are gets fleshed out in game, going from two dimensional to three dimensional. It's part of the reason I need quick moving games to develop personality. But if the game slows down, then I forget who they are and just fall back on the tropes. Abou that time, I start trying to figure out how to kill them...

Honestly, I generally only play about four 'types' of characters. But the backstory and hobbies and motivations are different enough, I don't think most people would see it if I didn't tell them.

We may be more one the same wavelength than I thought. That pretty much describes my process (and response to changes in momentum) exactly.

1st: Given it is a “new ruleset” (in that it is new to us, though somewhat akin to the game some of us actually started with last century) I am going to be “voting” along the lines of RH - let us try to make the character we want among the options on offer. Personally I’m entirely too picky, so my “characters I enjoy” thing is less “competent” and more “definitely *not* certain classes/races/combinations”.

2nd: I really don’t see anything that is going to break if we remove the torches/time thing. Firstly, it will be crappe via PbP, and secondly I don’t think I’m up for the concept of torch=central motif regardless of the ruleset. And then you can add infravision back in, if you want. Look, we are trying something, so let’s try that, or something similar.

I know it seems like I’m saying “let the players have what they want” but also “let’s be experimental with the ruleset”….but….oh hey….look at the pretty clouds!

Welcome OSW!

Well.... Not to give you bad news or anything :D

But I think I am going to stick to my guns here. I think the pregens in the quickstart rules are pretty solid, so there is no need to be concerned about having 'competent' characters. My AD&D 1e Dwarf example still stands though. I like pregens in this situation because they are quick and easy, they remove a lot of preconceived notions from the process, they push you a bit out of your comfort zone, they remove the 'build' notion from the player's heads, they offer a blank slate to experiment the game, etc.

On the light thing, I have though about different ways to address it, and I am interested in experimenting with it. In the future. Before tinkering with a system, I think it is important to play it 'as is'.

*waves* ninja'd by Oceanshieldwolf, Hey Oceanshieldwolf! I'll leave the post as is.

Old School GM Obermind wrote:

Robert Henry wrote:

So does shadowdarkling make modules?

How so?

You had said

Old School GM Obermind wrote:

I am expecting to use published stuff to start with

So I wondered if they printed stuff you could run.

Ah yep, got it now - yes they do :)

I'm ok with it as a trial run, but for a long term character I'm making a backstory for I want it to be something I want to play.

That is understandable. For this experiment, I would like us to implement a 'no more than three lines' Background policy, for a couple of reasons. One is to make it quick and easy. The second is because I think you will be thrown off directly into the 'adventure'. So you can develop your character as you go, exactly as most of us prefer it.

I'm almost sad to hear there is a lot of material.

Yeah, I am not saying we will use it. We may never get past the basic ruleset.

I actually thought that was interesting, it made everyone needing light, which of course is their schtick, combining in game time to real time. Obviously, we can't do that with PBP, though we can keep track of time and light in game.

Yep, I intend to give it a go, and make the light and gear management a thing.

I find the rules interesting and simplified. But sinse I know the pathfinder rules for the characters I like to play, simplifying doesn't change anything for me. I get it, if you learning something new, or writing/GMing, it make perfect sense. I've been running a game now for almost two years. I started running it as a bid to get in a game one of the other players was running, sort of a quid-pro-quo, and of course they stopped running the game I was in after a few months. But I'd invited a friend to play in my game so I'm still running it. I have to ask the other players (who are all GM's) how to manage stuff almost every week. It's like doing homework for a class I like. Interesting but not all that enjoyable. So If I were to GM I'd want a much simpler system to run like this one :)

That is the quest - to find a 'simple' enough system for the DM, which is still interesting and engaging for the players. I cannot do it as a chore. It will flake eventually.

I think a quick intro game with pregen or random rolled characters would be great. But I do find that one of the elements that keep me interested in long term games is my investment level into the characters back story. What do you think of the idea of rolling several characters, and creating a detailed back story for the one the player finds the most interesting? That would be similar to letting them place stats and pick backgrounds, but not exactly the same.

Edit:Oh, and full HP at first level.... dude almost half of the characters I rolled up playing with the system had only one HP. That person isn't going adventuring, there working at a 7-11 for their cousin.

In the future I can get on board with creating several PCs, but that would be much further down the line. First objective - play an 'adventure' from top to bottom and learn the mechanics.

And agreed! Max HP it will be. First house rule in effect ;)

Ach. I just took a closer look at Shadowdark and remembered it has Advantage and Disadvantage. So I I’m definitely not wanting to play anything that reminds me of 5e. And on thinkning about it more, I don’t think I am going to enjoy the vaunted “dark” mechanics, primarily because a) they aren’t very compelling or fleshed out and b) they….interact with Disadvantage. I can’t believe they’ve essentially built a slightly more updated Basic DnD, slapped on 5e’ Adv/Disadv mechanic and then called the game Shadowdark because they have a paragraph about losing your torch.

But I’m open to other rulesets. Or you folx can go on without me. ;)

But I’m open to other rulesets. Or you folx can go on without me. ;)

Since you are throwing sand in the gears, I think you should suggest an alternative 'simple' ruleset, and we can have a conversation :D

Gah. Fine. I’m too lazy to find something else. Ok ok. Shadowdark it is. For one adventure, and then we reconvene. I’ll take the Half-Orc Cleric pregen, but I want to be able to be Chaotic (without the overtones of Evil) and choose a different god. The presented Lawful and Neutral gods are….notgood. I want to be an adherent of Shune the Vile.

Also, can I wield a spear if I choose to? Like what is the interaction between the “Weapons” list for each class. Is that the beginning list of weapons, or is it intended that a priest can’t pick up and wield (or even throw) a spear?

Oh no. It says on p13 “You can wield the weapons listed for your class.” They can’t be serious, can they?

Getting the jitters again… ok, ok. I won’t try to look at random spears and wonder how to hold them. That would be weird, right?

Just because I like to talk shop, I will throw another option on the table if you want to look at it - Basic Fantasy RPG (BFRPG) - it is completely FREE, a modernization of the original BX set of rules (no more THAC0 and so forth), which can be as easy or as complex as we want it.

Another good option for a system to start simple, and which can be built upon if you want it, or just stay with the simple stuff. I have been wanting to dive into this one also for some time, I feel it has the potential to be an amazing ruleset, just take a look at that list of downloads - some of the more praised OSR products are in there.

Want extra classes, you got it.
Want extra races? There you go.
Want Background Skills?
Want Combat Options?
Cleric Options? ;)

You name it, and all built on the simplest of chassis, which I am convinced would work fine in PbP.

Food for thought ;)

Yep, BFRPG even has a handy SRD to check out all the rules.
It’s a little too much like B/X for my tastes. Though I really don’t think there is much separating Shadowdark, Old School Essentials, BFRPG, Swords and Wizardry etc.

There is also, as you mentioned elsewhere OSGMO Five Torches Deep which I admit to finding somewhat interesting with regard to it having class archetypes (the Zealot class for example is the one you pick if you want to be a Druid or a Paladin) but again the advantage/disadvantage stuff turns me off a little.

Wow, I go to get a cup of coffee and I practically miss the whole conversation :)

So, two observations:
1. I hate THACO, I hated it then, I hate it now...
2. I'm game for any 'old school' rules (that don't include THACO) as long as I don't have to memorize a ton of stuff just to play a quick game.

A different question all together, once we get more folks and things finalized here, do we want to consider using a discord channel to chat?

Edit: Back to the conversation on rules. I love to play rogues and fighters (and paladins and rangers, maybe the occasional barbarian) But if it's 'old school' and rogue things are a percentage, instead of a modifier to d20, I'll pass on the rogue and stick to beatsticks.

Wow, I go to get a cup of coffee and I practically miss the whole conversation :)

So, two observations:
1. I hate THACO, I hated it then, I hate it now...
2. I'm game for any 'old school' rules (that don't include THACO) as long as I don't have to memorize a ton of stuff just to play a quick game.

A different question all together, once we get more folks and things finalized here, do we want to consider using a discord channel to chat?

Edit: Back to the conversation on rules. I love to play rogues and fighters (and paladins and rangers, maybe the occasional barbarian) But if it's 'old school' and rogue things are a percentage, instead of a modifier to d20, I'll pass on the rogue and stick to beatsticks.

Well, fortunately both Shadowdark and BFRPG have no THAC0. Shadowdark is more based on 5e than anything else, while BFRPG works from the chassis of the good old D&D BX system (which I personally have been becoming a fan of over time), but has been quite modernized - kinda brought to the 21st century so to speak.

While OSE Basic (Old School Essentials) for example, is a full retroclone of BX (with THAC0), remaining faithful to that ruleset, BFRPG has stuff like ascending AC, race and class separation, slightly changed cleric spell progression, expanded equipment lists, no alignment, options for not using gold for XP, individual initiative instead of group initiative, things like that.

I do think S&W is a different beast, since it is more focused on OD&D than BX, so there are some relevant differences to OSE and BFRPG. Can go into detail if you guys want :)

I think the Discord is a good idea, if people are on board.

Shadowdark Thieves do not use percentages, but BFRPG do.

hmmm I'm in my first 5e game, I'm not adverse to the Advantage / Disadvantage. But I've not used them yet. Yeah it's a really slow moving game.

Happy to give either a go, (or something else possibly, I just don't know a lot of systems) but it feels like we're going to need more than two players/characters....

So my experience outside of Pathfinder (and it's offshoots like the Wheel of Time rules system) D20 modern, Darwin's world, Starwars (I guess they are 3.5 derivatives) Old school D&D (back in college) PF2 (which I didn't love) and 5e (which again, very slow moving so not a lot of actual experience) are Traveller (the older set of rules) and the Apocalypse World system (which I found very interesting for story telling purposes, but I thought it would be a nightmare for GM's)

hmmmm, sitting here reading that, not sure it's relevant, but I'll leave the list alone.

Yeah, we are in the same 5e game together - I am also pretty inexperienced with it, so cannot provide much of an educated opinion on it.

When I reached out to you, I also reached out to others, so we'll see who else bites ;)

Outside of Pathfinder, I played mainly D&D 2e, 3/3.5, very little 4e. Played lots of GURPS and World of Darkness Vampire stuff, some MERP and some Rolemaster.

Tried PF2, but it just isn't grokking with me.

More recently I have started delving into OSR and retroclones - OSE, BFRPG, S&W, DCC, Shadowdark, Castles & Crusades, Dragonbane and others. And also back to older D&D editions - B/X, BECMI and AD&D. Want to go back to basics as far as I can. Rediscovering old D&D editions has been particularly fun for me.

I currently prefer to play with 'simpler' systems, then add on things if required, instead of going the other way around like it happens with PF1e a lot, where you need to cut a lot if out even before you begin, to keep the game from going of its hinges (or at least that is my opinion).

I also prefer what I guess can be called Adventure Gaming, but that is a whole other can of worms to open, so I will keep a lid on it for now :D

At the moment it look s like our main contenders are Shadowdark and BFRPG. Lets see who else trickles in, and hear some more opinions!

Oops, totally forgot you were playing Terion. But my point still stands :)

Wow, I've only heard of about a third of those. Not a surprise though, I've not actually sat a table and rolled real dice since '82. Over the years I followed D&D a little, stumbled on the boards here back in '14 started reading some games and eventually started playing. So all my 'modern' experience was here on the boards. Probably the one system I would have liked to play more was 'star wars' only because I'm a big fan of that 'universe'

I tend to play for the stories. I like the idea of being a part of the story along with the other players, but the overarching goal is to experience the story. I like RP but only so much as to get a good feel for the characters in the story, and then RP that leans into the story arche, not distracts from it. Every now and then I'll comment to my wife about characters 'talking about the color of green beans' ie. not anything that has anything to do with character or plot development.

My hope with PBP is that the game can read like a story, focusing in on things that matter. Ok, now I'm just rambling.

Adventure gaming? How can I not ask?
Edit: AS in card games like "Magic: the gathering" or something else?

Hello Robert Henry, Oceanshieldwolf, and Obermind,

I've downloaded the quickstart rules, am accepting of pregens but generally prefer making my own characters. To learn for a system I've never played it is okay, but might tweak all the reasons why in my head at least. Developing backstory as we go along as Ocean suggests works too.

Basically I am just starting to read so have no idea, just wanted to say I've started and caught up on the posts at least.

Nice to have you John!

Adventure gaming? How can I not ask?

This one has a lot to say about it, but I'll keep it short. When I started playing D&D, it was with BECMI around... 1990, and in my country there wasn't much D&D stuff - it was a very niche hobby. So we played whatever we could get our hands on, 99% of the time based on the adventure modules we found in our FLGS.

That meant a short into blurb + this is the adventure + GO! (a bit like what we will start with here, whether with Shadowdark or BFRPG).

As the years went by, and we drifted into AD&D2e, things started to change. The sentence 'What do you want to do next', usually spoken by me as a forever DM to my players, became a staple of our games and how we approached RPGs, regardless of whether we were playing in Dragonlance, Dark Sun or Planescape.

And that for me epitomizes adventure gaming - the world is there, the strange sites, factions, mysteries, villains plotting behind the scenes, abandoned crypts, desecrated battle sites, humanoid infested caves, spying, strife and alliances between realms, it is all there.

And your characters are also there, sitting on a tavern, escorting a caravan, or anywhere in-between. Their exploration of, and adventuring in the world and all it entails IS the game.

Using someone else's words not mine:

'Nobody is trying to tell a story. A GM writes places and situations; if a future is written, it is the future of what will happen in that location or what those NPCs will accomplish if the players choose not to engage with it or them at all. No attempt is made to pre-determine the course of what will happen if the players decide to engage with that content. Because the GM has determined the goals, resources, abilities, local geography, and "personality" of any NPCs at a location, they have all the tools necessary to react believably and distinctly to whatever actions or plans the players may devise at the time of contact.'

So the world is alive with 'adventures', 'plots', 'events', 'sites' and so forth. And your characters are in it. Adventuring, and perhaps creating memorable stories! :D

That is what Adventure Gaming means to me in a nutshell.

Now... One could say some old school games like BX or AD&D1e by its very nature (much more XP for gold or magic items retrieved than for puzzle solving, monster killing, or any other action really), are more inducing of Adventure Gaming - if characters want to improve in the game, if they want to 'progress' (keep in mind for AD&D, steep training costs for leveling up, upkeep, henchmen and hirelings, etc, are all part of the game), they NEED to adventure and find what allows them to progress. One can say they are 'forced' to go out there, explore the world, find riches. But I think that is a discussion best left for another time :D

ahhhh fun topic, thank you for sharing.

*Waves* @ John Gs

Hi John, nice to see you here. We have played together at least once, I was the unfortunate outcast loner monk in Season of Ghosts with the penchant for leaving the game almost immediately…

Moving directly on, with the three of us here we should, in my humble opinion, get to having fun. So how do people feel about the game system? I’ve clearly already gotten over whatever reservations I had about Shadowdark and am ready to go.

Anyone have a pregen they want to play? I have already chosen the Half-orc Priest.

A pregen? I would go either the elf fighter or the halfling thief. Though I would use one of the named icons I've already got on my que. No need to keep adding characters if I don't need to.

I would lean towards the elf fighter if it matters.

I have a few extra invitations sent out, and waiting for reply.

I feel like regardless of whatever game system we decide to go with, we would need a minimum of four players, while the ideal number would perhaps be six.

Not a surprise though, I've not actually sat a table and rolled real dice since '82. Over the years I followed D&D a little, stumbled on the boards here back in '14 started reading some games and eventually started playing. So all my 'modern' experience was here on the boards.

Well, we are pretty much on the same boat I feel - only this year did I decide to 'put myself out there' some more, and managed to get back to face-to-face gaming. Currently in an AD&D2e bi-weekly game in person, and a weekly AD&D1e remote session via discord. Apart from that, it is all PbP based.

A pregen? I would go either the elf fighter or the halfling thief. Though I would use one of the named icons I've already got on my que. No need to keep adding characters if I don't need to.

I would lean towards the elf fighter if it matters.

Yep, understood RH, I briefly considered renaming my pregen, but I don’t mind having a million aliases and merely opted for a slightly respelling…

Ocean, I remember and enjoyed the interactions between your loner monk and my odd alchemist.

On pregens, well every group needs a wizard, so I'm leaning toward the human wizard guy.

Haven't been face to face rpgs since covid. It is just hard to get together regularly enough between work and families.. but saying that I've managed to meet up with a group playing Frosthaven at least once a month so it should be possible.

Hello All - been badgered unrelentingly cordially invited to join this merry gathering :)

(Waves to all)

Not played Shadowdark but was in the running for my own Night Below game (C&C untimely won out). I'm short of time (with work and family visitors) at the moment, however from the 1st August I've got 12 days of sweeeeeet time off work booked so will hopefully be well placed to join.

Regards Pregens - interests been piqued by Martin the Thief - a noble who steals... interesting...

Give me a day or so to cook up my version of him and I'll pop some most posts here :)

BD

Hey BD!

Happy you like the thief, I'll stick with the elf fighter. Just remember, "You can't have too many knives!"

and the count raises to four :)

And having considered OSW's words, I've decided to make a new Icon, so this is RH's Elf fighter, Yriel.

Hi all and thanks for the invite Obermind.

I haven't played Shadowdark, but reading through the quick start rules it seems like a bit of a mashup between 5E, 1E, and DCC. I'm willing to give it a go. And having played and GM'd a few DCC funnels, I'd go ahead and give the random rolling a try for my PC.

As for light sources, I don't mind PCs being a little nerfed when it comes to darkness. The fact that nearly every PC has darkvision in 5E is just as annoying as none having it. Maybe there is a middle ground where you can still have the danger/horror of darkness but we ease up on some of the more bookkeeping in the rules? For instance, for tracking light sources, maybe a source lasts for 3 encounters (puzzle, monster, npc, whatever) before it burns out, needs more oil, or recast? Or maybe the GM just rolls to see if we've got sufficient light for an encounter. If yes, then it ins't an issue unless an enemy or someone does something. If no, then maybe a d6 roll to see how many rounds of light we have left. A simple INT check could warn a PC about the upcoming light failure, but it would have to be an active roll, not passive. Just some random musings

Finally, I'm not a big fan of using Discord. I just prefer having only one place to check for game info/discussion. If others want to do that, thats cool but I'll probably steer clear.

Hi BD, Tareth.

@BD: yay. With RH’s Fighter, John G’s Wizard, my Priest and your Thief we have the classic quad. It now truly is an oldskool game.

@Tareth: And Tareth makes five!!! I totally understand the reticence for Discord. I was an adamant non-adopter for the longest time. Eventually I integrated it into my gaming, but have actually found it almost completely unused apart from the occasional link for images or maps.

Mostly I use it to have conversations in real time that are much quicker than PM on Paizo.

Re: light - I’m only just starting to look beyond the Quickstart at the full rules, but it does seem as if *some* sort of accommodation will need to be made for PbP. Those all sound like good ideas so far. I like the Int check.

@OSGMO: you have a taker for the random roll!

Hey BD and Tareth, welcome aboard.

I still have one pending invitation out there, so it is possible we will get a sixth player. The recommendation for Shadowdark is four players, but I think this will not be an issue.

@BD: I know you had considered Shadowdark for your Night Below game, so if you have any insights on using it in PbP, or anything else at all really, please share :)

@Tareth: Aha, someone willing to accept Fate!

The pregens we have left are:
Jorbin - Dwarf Fighter
Elbin - Dwarf Priest
Ralina - Halfling Thief
Zaldin - Goblin Wizard

So a simple d4: 1d4 ⇒ 3 > And we have Ralina, an Halfling Thief!

(And here the limitations of the Paizo forums come into play... In other forums I could just post the character sheet here as an attachment, or a snapshot of it, and you could just download or copy it. In these forums.... Meh)

So lets go with a link: Ralina

Regarding Discord, I just took a look, and for the purpose OSW pointed out, like sharing map images, or chats or anything else, it is possible to simply create a Discord group chat instead of a full blown server. All you need is an account. So that is also an option if we decide to use it.

Creeg Greythorn was happily unused, so created the alias. Surprisingly it took me little time to find an alias picture that looked similar to the one from the pregen.

I do admit I really like the light rules. Minor micromanagement for something that should be scary feels atmospheric. Of course in practice it might just become irritating, who knows.

I am good with discord, most of the games I am in use it to some degree so I check it regularly. Plus my kids are on it AND will communicate with me on it.

(Also mimicked Ocean's tag line for stats)

@John Gs: Heh, my son has a phone ostensibly so we can contact him. He doesn’t answer it, or text, but will use Discord almost as easily as breathing. So I totally get where you are coming from…

Also, we should probably append our HP as OSGMO has graciously agreed to RH and my whining about survivability to allow us max HP at 1st level. Unless…we already *do* have max HP….(runs off to check)

Ralina Biggins, Halfling Thief it is. Biggins, not to be confused as a member of that 'other' halfling clan who just happen to be the iron fisted rulers of the dystopian Underhill mining and gong farming complex from which she escaped, survives with her quick hands, charming looks, clever mind and her utter disregard for others. Unfortunately, the foul Underhill air and water left her with a permanent susceptibility to various agues and a relatively weakened stamina.

To be honest, I was going to actually roll up the stats, background, etc. randomly, so using the pre-gen probably works out better than what the dice roller would throw my way.

I'll get a proper alias set up shortly.

so for slight background purposes, are we on Golarion, or someplace else?

so for slight background purposes, are we on Golarion, or someplace else?

For now we are going with ‘someplace else’ ;)

For some reason Golarion lore has never grabbed me. I am not sure why.

Yriel Lirandar wrote:

so for slight background purposes, are we on Golarion, or someplace else?

For now we are going with ‘someplace else’ ;)

Sweet, with your permission I will make up a small elvish village in a very large forest that he is from.

Care to name either?

Nah, feel free :)

Max hit points for a wizard is 4 so that gets him 1 more :)

Three sentence backstory.

Creeg was a curmudgeon way before his time, learning just enough magic to get by in life. The cantankerous one built up little by little, over decades, from small jobs for a house with the plan to coast on his remaining years just yelling at kids to get off his yard, a personal dream. But then there was a lightning strike, a fire, and now he has nothing, along with very few years to get it all back.

So now he is here.

Even with all the mashing together of sentences, that is four. Just couldn't bring myself to throw that last one on with a comma.

Three sentence background for Iragha:

Hail Shune! Unbelievers can be reasoned with, but only so far. What?

Backgrounds are looking good. Simple and to the point :D

@Creeg: Just remember your Background on the Character Sheet is Sailor. Mechanically (if we can call it a mechanic), that will maybe provide you advantage in some situations, if you are required to roll a skill check for something someone with a Sailor background would know.

As far as I understand it, this is usually not a big thing (like 'I sailed the Seven Seas'), but more along the lines of 'I took a sailor apprenticeship with my uncle'

Likewise, same reasoning for @Iraga: Background on the Character Sheet is Urchin.

Yep, got it. Mean streets, big city.

Oh, completely forgot that.

How about... his father was a sailor, he grew up on them, loved them, so his work was not toward buying a house, but a ship, big enough to live on, small enough a single person could sail it, with the dream of just sailing the world, living simply.

Lightning strike and fire could have been on the port town, taking out a bunch of buildings and a bunch of ships, his being one.

I like it John! :D

From my end, I have been taking a closer read of the rules, so I can have at least an half-decent grasp of them before we begin.

Have also been going through some adventures/modules/ideas for Shadowdark - I prefer to use something which has been specifically created for the system, to get a feel of the flow, try out the mechanics, etc., instead of me starting to come up with stuff from the get-go.

One thing I have noticed is, it is VERY easy to find 'basic' adventures for older D&D systems (or retroclones thereof, or new conceptualizations of those games, whatever) - there is an abundance of modules with 'intro/beginner' stuff from where you can pull ideas - caravan escorts, bandits, small lairs, humanoids, abandoned crypts, disappearing chicken, you name it. Then there are a lot of little hubs, small villages, borderlands keeps, isolated points of light.

But the Shadowdark stuff is more... Out there. More gonzo (not as much as DCC ofc). Intro adventures are in the middle of the desert, nowhere near civilization, there are theset temple/ruins, you are there in the middle of nowhere just... Because. So it makes things harder to build upon (in my head), and actually generates extra work if you try to do it - where would the adventurers go if they survived? What kind of place would it be? What if they capture someone? What could they find out? What else is there around that area, etc etc. If you want some sort of connective tissue between adventure A and B, you need to come up with all of that yourself.

So it is clear our first endeavors will be... Disjointed so to speak. Because what is out there for Shadowdark is disjointed, and I don't want to delve into houseruling or creating my own campaign or nothing of the sort just yet. So just wanted to give you a heads up for that.

Heh. I don’t know if it all the oldskool stuff you and I been tinkering with in the background, but I just today came up with a pretty gonzo adventure that absolutely has no links to anything, and absolutely doesn’t link to anything else.

With no background to speak of, it doesn’t really matter where we are, and we definitely might not survive long enough to *get* anywhere, let alone get existential about it.

I trust that you will be able to conjure the necessary connective tissue should there need to be any!

As for “modules for the system they were written for” this is absolutely a necessity if you want to run Shadowdark as “intended”, otherwise you will need to do more work. Looking at random encounters for example, the point of them is that time is of the essence and if you wait around to heal, not only will you run out of torches, but you stand to get surprised by denizens of the Shadowdark. And every Shadowdark module must therefore have a tacit and appropriate Wandering Monster table that is thematic to that adventure. I mean, you could create one if you are using a B/X or retroclone, but the point is that there *are* actually Shadowdark adventures, and if done right (because not every third or even first party author will do a great job) they will exploit the warts of the system to make the Shadowdark come alive.

How about... his father was a sailor, he grew up on them, loved them, so his work was not toward buying a house, but a ship, big enough to live on, small enough a single person could sail it, with the dream of just sailing the world, living simply.

Lightning strike and fire could have been on the port town, taking out a bunch of buildings and a bunch of ships, his being one.

No fair. You did all that in only two sentences. Showoff.