Welcome!
Please provide me with the following information:
Your Organized Play Number & Character Number
Slow Track (half rewards) or Regular Track
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Signed up with this L3 sorcerer (yet to update profile). I know there's another sorcerer already but Zelphari is a melee build one. He uses his spells primarily for buffs, e.g. true strike.
The game is looking to be high tier though? If so, I do have a couple of L5-6 but some reshuffling between games might be needed.
PFS #: 215076-2004
Regular Track
Please complete the details in the linked spreadsheet here: Macros.
I will use the information for initiative and secret checks.
The game is looking to be high tier though? If so, I do have a couple of L5-6 but some reshuffling between games might be needed.
It looks like 18 Challenge Points with 6 Players, so lower level range.
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Your Organized Play Number & Character Number: 2380483-2003
Regular Track
Jayma is trained in Gossip Lore, which allows her to make trained +9 Recall Knowledge rolls on any topic. Even if she fails, she gets the effects of the Dubious Knowledge feat. As such, I've added her +9 under the Lore columns of the Macros Worksheet.
Jayma has a white ermine familiar named Twyl who might post separately from time to time. Same goes for any creatures she summons along the way.
She has the Empathetic Plea reaction which she will use whenever someone tries to attack her (and toward whom she has yet to act hostile).
Her bonus consumable will be Healing Potion (Minor) x2.
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Ah, good point. My feats and weird abilities are:
Wildwood Halfling: Basically, vegetation doesn't slow me down.
Watchful Halfling: I get bonuses on spotting possessed people. Hasn't been relevant so far, but you never know.
I also have Battle Medicine, Ward Medic, and Continual Recovery, so I can heal multiple people at once out of combat, and I don't need to wait an hour in between attempts.
Hobbs is listed as level 5, though his tag line is listed as level 2 (minimum level for this scenario is 3). I am assuming it is the former (level 5).
Please clarify.
Everyone: please make sure your marching order is on the slides and your macros have been completed in the links at the top of the campaign. Only initiative and perception is required in the macros; the rest are optional.
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I've put Zelphari down for Scouting because he has poor perception (+6) for Search and Jayma is already detecting magic. In case Maximilian wishes to switch to something else. Or you guys have suggestion of what else Zelphari could do.
Have updated the marching order. Zelphari is not perfect up in the frontline but looks like he's the most melee character we've got. :)
Also would like to buy a Trinity Geoge Spellheart (60gp) if there's an opportunity to.
Sakakabe should be big enough for a level 3 item.
Everyone starts with 1 Hero Point.
If we have any Glyph Hero Points to hand out, do so now, please.
Please, also remember to choose your school items, if you have not.
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Hobbs has Burrow Elocutionist and is able to speak to burrowing mammals. It may not work on Twyl since he does not seem to be able to burrow unlike his kin.
Ermines are a type of stoat and despite being quite comfortable nesting in burrows of all sorts, they do not actually dig their own. They hijack the burrows of other animals after um, convincing the original owners to move elsewhere.
As such, I did not give Twyl the Burrower ability and he does not have a burrow speed. Whether or not Burrow Elocutionist works on Twyl I leave to the GM to decide.
I'm fine with however you wish the specific interaction between the two of you to work.
I try not to micromanage that too much. You tell me that you walk through the woods on an island full of ferocious beasts with your weapons drawn, I believe you. You always carry your pole-arm because that is how you carry pole-arms, I believe you. You tell me that you walk through the middle of town with your swords drawn, I raise an eyebrow.
Unless you can point me to a rule I missed or forgot, it's 1 action for each weapon drawn. There are features that break this restriction, i.e., exceptions that prove the rule.
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I try not to micromanage that too much. You tell me that you walk through the woods on an island full of ferocious beasts with your weapons drawn, I believe you. You always carry your pole-arm because that is how you carry pole-arms, I believe you. You tell me that you walk through the middle of town with your swords drawn, I raise an eyebrow.
Unless you can point me to a rule I missed or forgot, it's 1 action for each weapon drawn. There are features that break this restriction, i.e., exceptions that prove the rule.
Are we in an area where we expect danger? If so, I would have at least one weapon out...especially it requires one weapon per interact. If there is no reason we would expect an encounter here, then I would not have a weapon out.
Regarding interact it's an interpretation thing. I've had GMs on either side of the fence;
You use your hand or hands to manipulate an object or the terrain. You can grab an unattended or stored object, open a door, or produce some similar effect. You might have to attempt a skill check to determine if your Interact action was successful.
The rule clearly allows you to use both hands during an interact, but it doesn't say you have to manipulate the "same" object with both hands. So each hand can manipulate an object...just like in real life.
PF1 had a rule that if you had the TWF feat, you could draw both weapons as you draw one. PF2 has no such rule because there is no TWF feat. Quick Draw doesn't address this and is not a TWF feat, it's really for switch hitting.
Another observation, a two-weapon fighter can use one action and put both hands on the weapon. I don't see an intent that a TWF should have to spend double the actions to be in the same state of preparedness. TWF is kind of forced on some classes as a combat style. So I'm not sure why Paizo would want them to be forced to always be spending two actions to use feats that are part of the class. Twin Takedown requires that you use two different weapons.
From a narrative point of view, any movie that depicts two-weapon fighters, they don't draw their weapons one at a time....lol. At dinner, you can pick up our knife and fork at the same time, or your cup and your plate..
Personally, I think RAW allows it, but I can also see how someone might not agree. I could easily see Paizo intending one or the other interpretation. The though one weapon interpretation doesn't really make sense to me as a design goal.
There are features that break this restriction
Which features break this rule?
Yes. You are expecting danger, so feel free to have had as many weapons as you feel appropriate in hand. You are on an island filled with ferocious beasts that routinely drive off invaders.
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You use your hand or hands to manipulate an object or the terrain.
You can use only one single action, activity, or free action that doesn’t have a trigger at a time.
Table 6-2 also lists drawing a weapon with one or two hands as an Interact action.
So for this table, we will spend 1 action to draw a single weapon.
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Hobbs hands everyone a vial containing a greenish liquid that smells of vinegar. "I suppose it's time for me pass these out. The effect should last all day so you might as well drink it now. It should provide a modicum of protection against any diseases we might encounter."
He drinks his antiplague and casts a couple of spells before lifting his hat to check on Erinaceinae.
"All set Erinaceinae?"
Oops looking back at this post I see that I wasn't particularly clear. That'll teach me to reread very carefully when posting while tired.
Hobbs gives everyone a lesser antiplague that tastes like pickle juice and provides a +2 item bonus vs disease for 24 hours.
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Yes. You are expecting danger, so feel free to have had as many weapons as you feel appropriate in hand. You are on an island filled with ferocious beasts that routinely drive off invaders.
Okay, thanks for clarifying.
So for this table, we will spend 1 action to draw a single weapon.
Okay. Thanks for clarifying.
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You use your hand or hands to manipulate an object or the terrain.
Yes, each hand can manipulate "an" object, as apposed to the "same" object, is how I read that. That also makes real world sense, imo.
Table 6-2 also lists drawing a weapon with one or two hands as an Interact action.
Right. That is needed so that someone who fights with a two-handed weapon doesn't have to use a separate actions to grip. I don't read it as precluding each hand from grabbing a different object.
But as I said above. I'm fine with your interpretation.
You mentioned there were exceptions which proved the rule? If there is a feat which specifically allows that, it would settle the question for me.
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You always carry your pole-arm because that is how you carry pole-arms, I believe you.
Zelphari would be walking with his pole arm out (kind of like a walking stick) as my experience slinging long stuff over the back when hiking shows that it is just not feasible. Someone behind calls you, you turn around, and slice off your companion's head. :) But he reasonably would only be holding it with one hand, so would still need an action to change to grip with two, so it is effectively still spending an action to draw his weapon.
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I believe the standard accepted reading of the Interact action only allows for the drawing of one weapon per such action.
I'm not sure what you mean by "standard." At 1st level, I played this character with a PFS VC and they allowed a two weapon draw.
I haven't seen any official ruling from Paizo, so like many rules in this game which are unclear, it's dependent on the GM.
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By the way, I have Battle Medicine, I'm an Expert in Medicine, and I have a +13 to the roll. I should nearly always be able to make that DC 15 check for 2d8 HP, and with my current bonus I'm pretty confident I can make the DC 20 for 2d8+10. Plus, I have two Hero Points to burn on rerolls. Are people okay with me going for DC 20 checks, or would you rather I play it safe at DC 15? There's also a decent chance I crit succeed and heal for 4d8, which could heal about as much, so there's that, but that's much less likely.
Yes. Unless it’s an excessively lengthy monologue. :)
Trying to understand how far they need in a straight line.
You've seen them move as much as 80 ft and as little as 20 ft in their charges, but straight lines do not appear to you to be required.
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The Interact action reads: You use your hand or hands to manipulate an object or the terrain. You can grab an unattended or stored object, open a door, or produce some similar effect. You might have to attempt a skill check to determine if your Interact action was successful.
I believe that the way it is written is almost universally considered unambiguous (at least to native English speakers) and that all the uses of 'an' clearly indicate that only one object is allowed to be maniulated during an Interact action, regardless of how many hands you use to do it.
In addition, if you look at Table 6-2 in the Wielding Items section of the Core Rulebook (pp273), you will note that the first line states that to Draw or put away a worn item, or pick up an item (If you retrieve a two-handed item with only one hand, you still need to change your grip before you can wield or use it) requires 1 or 2 hands and an Interact action.
There may be table variation involved here, but I suspect it is very slight. Almost all GMs (and certainly all the GMs I've played with) will only allow one weapon draw per Interact, so you may want to set your future expectations accordingly.
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I believe that the way it is written is almost universally considered unambiguous (at least to native English speakers) and that all the uses of 'an' clearly indicate that only one object is allowed to be maniulated during an Interact action, regardless of how many hands you use to do it.
You can use your "hands" during an Interact and your hand can manipulate "an" object. It doesn't say your "hands" can or must manipulate the "same" object. Nor does it work that way in real life.
One interpretation mimics real life. The other does not with no obvious reason why it shouldn't
One Interpretation is consistent with all fantasy tropes involving two-weapon fighter and the other is not.
PF1 allowed TWF'ers to draw both weapons at the same time. There is no stated or obvious reason why this shouldn't be true in PF2, especially given TWF is now class imposed.
In addition, if you look at Table 6-2 in the WieldingItems section of the Core Rulebook (pp273), you will note that the first line states that to Draw or put away a worn item, or pick up an item (If you retrieve a two-handed item with only one hand, you still need to change your grip before you can wield or use it) requires 1 or 2 hands and an Interact action.
Not sure what you're point is here. The rules state that you can draw a two handed weapon with both hands forgoing the need to use an extra an action.
Almost all GMs (and certainly all the GMs I've played with) will only allow one weapon draw per Interact, so you may want to set your future expectations accordingly.
If you believe it to be "near universal" than I fail to see how you would know how "all the GMS" interpret the rule as it would not have been tested by players believing the rules allow two weapon drawing.
I can concede that, as written, it can be interpreted as a single weapon. As such I will expect table variation. I don't think we need to keep talking about it. The GM has made a ruling and that is all that matters for this game. Not sure why this conversation is necessary.
I have ruled. Azu has agreed to my ruling.
You're more than welcome to take this spirited discussion to the Rules forum, please.
These guys are intrinsically hard, but my dice are not your friends, apparently.
"Where were you when I was playing 2-15, huh?" I ask my dice.
You have no idea how hard I'm trying...
I think ancestries wouldn't differentiate between heritages.
It's kind of a mixed bag depending on the individual heritage within each different race on how specifically in-game, regionally unique the heritage is.
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I think ancestries wouldn't differentiate between heritages.It's kind of a mixed bag depending on the individual heritage within each different race on how specifically in-game, regionally unique the heritage is.
Fair. Leshies are very diverse depending on their heritage, but humans wouldn't say they come from a skilled or versatile heritage. And elves have clear regionally separated varieties, such as Desert Elf, Arctic Elf, and so on. But I still think halflings wouldn't call themselves "Gutsy" or "Observant" as their heritage.
Azu: You posted while I was typing this, sorry. Like I said above, humans don't call themselves "skilled." Yes, I think they might discriminate based on (social) class and which culture you're from, and they might for instance see hillock halflings as simple-minded, but most heritages are purely for the players, not the characters, I feel.