GM Tyranius (PF2) Sundered Waves (Inactive)

Game Master Tyranius

Please fill out the following information below as well as the information in the Macro Link above.

As you will be playing pregens or non-society characters the information below will be for which PFS character you wish to assign credit to.

Player Name:
Character Name:
Character Level:
Perception Modifier:
PFS / SFS ID Number:
Faction:
Day Job Roll:

Go ahead and pick one of the four Pregens. You can find the BB Code for them in the link below. Please read over their backstory and relationship portion as it describes your interaction with each other.

I'm happy to play any of them, so I will elect to defer. But if everyone is in the same boat, I'll break the standoff by choosing 1 Kaako, 2 Lavanna, 3 Elsir, 4 Jadren: 1d4 ⇒ 3. Or 1d3 ⇒ 3 if someone has a preference and three of us are sitting around. Or 1d2 ⇒ 2 if two people choose and two of us are staring blankly at each other.

Player Name: Watery Soup
Character Name: Nina Jaribu
Character Level: 6
PFS / SFS ID Number: 2358909-2003
Faction: Envoys' Alliance
Day Job Roll: Performance: 1d20 + 12 ⇒ (19) + 12 = 31

I originally took a liking to the fighter but now I'm kinda torn. I really like the rogue and the cleric, too. I'd rather not play the sorcerer--honestly I'm really underwhelmed by spontaneous casting in 2e--but I'm happy to play any of the others. I love that there's some history between the characters already so we have lots to work with roleplay wise.

If I read the rules for pregen XP credit right (which it's entirely possible and even likely that I didn't) it has to go either to a character who's level 1, or a character who is of a level appropriate to the adventure (5th, in this case) or higher. Otherwise you have to wait for a character to reach the adventure's level to apply the credit? If this is the case, I'm going to apply it to my level 1 alchemist.

Player Name: Apoc Golem
Character Name: Arturo Petrimov
Character Level: Alchemist 1
PFS ID: 6269-2003
Faction: Vigilant Seal
Day Job: Engineering Lore: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (19) + 7 = 26

Woot!

Okay, I'm gonna leave it up to a die roll, skipping Elsir. 1d3 ⇒ 3 Eyyy! Jadren it is!

I've never used a pregen on pbp before. Do I need to make a new profile for him? Cause I get the feeling that there will probably be a lot of people trying to do that, if that's the case.

I love playing Rogues. But I've never played a Cleric and I'd like to try that. So I'd prefer the Cleric over the Rogue, but if Palandri has a strong preference for the Cleric, I'll happily take the Rogue.

Player Name: Professor Plum (Scott)
Character Name: Broot
Character Level: Barbarian 3
PFS ID: 263869-2006
Faction: Verdant Wheel
Day Job Roll: Herbalism Lore: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (8) + 5 = 13
(it's a little embarrassing that a Leshy isn't better at Herbalism Lore)

OK, trying to parse my way through all the other preferences, it appears that Apoc is taking Jadren (fighter), Scott prefers Lavanna (cleric), and Watery is good with whatever.

That basically leaves Kaako (rogue) and Elsir (sorcerer) to pick from. I've played a sorcerer but not a rogue, so I'm leaning toward Kaako the Tengu Rogue, but if Watery is really not into sorcerers then I'm fine playing Elsir instead.

I assume an Alias is sufficient to play, so I just grabbed the name "Kaako Ashfeather" before it was snatched up. I can always delete it if necessary. If I need a full Organized Play Character to play, let me know.

Player Name: Palandri
Character Name: Jayma
Character Level: Sorcerer 3
PFS / SFS ID Number: 2380483-2003
Faction: Horizon Hunters
Day Job Roll: Performance (Earn Income): 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (13) + 9 = 22 (trained)

Standard disclaimer:

I'm currently living in Spain and as such, may have strange posting times compared to the rest of you. If other PbP adventures I've played in are anything to go by, most of you are likely to be posting from North America somewhere. I am some 9 hours ahead of Pacific time and 6 hours ahead of Eastern time, so I go to bed sometime in your mid-afternoon and get up sometime in the very early morning.

"Good with whatever" is a pretty polite way of saying that his ugly mug is a blank wall on which I can graffiti my personality. But sure, let's go with that.

Tyranius: typos in Elsir's stat block

- Sense Moticve -> Sense Motive
- rations (1 week)s -> rations (1 week)
- rope (foot)s (50) -> rope (50')
- torchs -> torches

“Kraa!”

Kaako is ready to go.

I found the same ration, rope and torch typos in Kaako's stat block as Watery Soup.

Going with Avoid Notice for default exploration mode, but happy to switch to Scout if no one else picks that up.

Thanks, Got those corrected.

So looks like we have:

(Palandri) Kaako Ashfeather: Tengu Rogue
(Prof Plum) Lavanna Saltspray: Halfling (Undine) Cleric
(Watery Soup) Elsir Syniras: Elf Sorcerer w/ Marid Genie bloodline
(Apoc) Jadren Tagar: Human Fighter using longsword and shield

As for credit. While these are pregens those rules refer to normal org play scenarios. This is treated more like a sanctioned AP which comes with it's own rules on what characters you can create and how to apply credit.

This chronicle can be applied to any of your characters. It does not need to be within the same level range. (Similar to AP and Module sanctioning for 2E.)

Reminder

Event Name: PbP Sundered Waves
Event #2704124

On the Paizo product page, there's a post listing some errors in the character sheets.

Sundered Waves

Looking at Kaako's char sheet, looks like Palandri fixed most of those, but Kaako should have 1 more cantrip.

She gets Electric Arc from Storms Lash and Guidance from Pendant of the Occult. She should get 2 more from Minor Magic: Know Direction and ???

Question for Tyranius: First time playing a Cleric, so I'm not sure. I'm not locked into the listed spells, right? Each day, clerics get to prepare any cantrips/spells from the Divine list, correct?

That is correct, with the exception of the big lump of Heal spells at 3rd level, which is from your Divine Font class feature, not your normal spells. You just get those every day for free.

Good to know about the XP credit! But I think I'm still gonna give it to Arturo. I am interested to see what a high-level alchemist looks like (not that I'm anywhere near "high level" with any of my PFS characters :P ).

I guess I'll try to make a profile for Jadren? It does make me wonder what people do when they play like, Amiri or something. There's got to be a hundred different Amiri profiles on the forums by now.

EDIT: Shockingly, "Jadren Tagar" was still free! Got there first, heh. I'll have his profile set up shortly.

I am interested to see what a high-level alchemist looks like

Heh, I just finished a game with three alchemists - two level 7, one level 6. Very fun, although we ended up talking our way out of several combats so the bombage was not as severe as I had hoped.

Thanks for confirming, Apoc. And thanks to Palandri for helping me create an Alias w/o registering a new Paizo character.

I couldn't get Lavanna Saltspray, so I added an 's'. Lavanna Saltsprays will have to do. Will have her profile updated by tonight.

Looking at Kaako's char sheet, looks like Palandri fixed most of those, but Kaako should have 1 more cantrip.

She gets Electric Arc from Storms Lash and Guidance from Pendant of the Occult. She should get 2 more from Minor Magic: Know Direction and ???

I can't take credit for the fixes. I merely grabbed Tyranius's BB Code from PBP GM Kit

I will add an extra cantrip for Kaako. Probably Telekinetic Projectile, but we'll see.

I'm having trouble figuring out how the BB Code came up with Acrobatics +12. I can only find +11 (+2 Trained, +4 Dex, +5 Level). What am I missing?

EDIT: Never mind. The extra +1 Acrobatics must be from the Bracelet of Dashing.

Jadren Tagar, at your service!

Any suggestions for his free language that wasn't listed? I'm thinking probably something regional, maybe Mwangi (since the background mentions time in the Shackles and that's close by).

Looks like Kaako is limited to Primal spells, so Telekinetic Projectile is out. I'll go with Light for his extra cantrip instead.

There appears to be another typo in the BB Code. Kaako's Spell Casting DC for his innate primal spells is listed as 13 when it should be 20, as correctly stated on the original character sheet in the PDF.

Some corrections will be coming down the pipeline soon for the pregens as well. Such as I gave the cleric the waves domain as it closely matched but she had no domain listed. As well as the spells you have noticed.

Excellent, keep finding those mistakes. I'll correct them as folks find them. Bounce your BB Code off of the actual pregen sheet.

Indeed pregen alias are hard to make since only one person can have the name. So I usually make a little nickname or add my own in the middle. Or add one more letter as Lavanna did.

Yeah I was pretty pleased to get the actual name!

When I saw there were some errata with the pregens, I rebuilt Jadren in HLO. Worked out pretty well actually, your corrections made him more or less spot on. He has slightly more gear than standard (he could afford the weapons and armor but not the potions and holy waters) but other than that he should be good.

One more BB Code vs Pregen PDF mismatch...

Kaako's Beak is described in the APG as: You have a beak unarmed attack that deals 1d6 piercing damage. Your beak is in the brawling weapon group and has the finesse and unarmed traits.

Kaako's Thief Racket in the CRB reads: When you attack with a finesse melee weapon, you can add your Dexterity modifier to damage rolls instead of your Strength modifier.

It appears that the pregen PDF has his Beak attack using his Strength modifier for damage (1d6+1), but the BB Code has it using the Dexterity modifier for damage (1d6+4).

Which is it? I vote for using the Dex modifier :)

Yup, they all seemed to run out of money pretty quickly in HLO.

Reading through those two descriptions it would read to me as being a finesse melee weapon it would use the dex over strength.

Reading through those two descriptions it would read to me as being a finesse melee weapon it would use the dex over strength.

As much as I'd prefer it to be that way, it appears that by RAW this is probably not the case.

The description states that the beak strike is an unarmed attack, and the Unarmed Attacks rules state that Unarmed attacks can belong to a weapon group, and they might have weapon traits. However, unarmed attacks aren’t weapons, and effects and abilities that work with weapons never work with unarmed attacks unless they specifically say so.

The Thief Racket description states that it only applies to an attack with a finesse melee weapon.

Since it appears that the beak unarmed attack (despite belonging to the brawling weapon group) is not considered a "weapon" as per the rules, and since the Thief Racket only applies to a "weapon", then the conclusion is that it doesn't apply to the beak unarmed attack.

This question has come up in the Pathfinder2e reddit group a few times here and here, and elsewhere, and the general consensus seems to be that Thief Racket does not apply to unarmed attacks such as beak.

On the other hand, the description for the Rogue Sneak Attack states that : If you Strike a creature that has the flat-footed condition with an agile or finesse melee weapon, an agile or finesse unarmed attack, or a ranged weapon attack, you deal an extra 1d6 precision damage.

This specifically lists "unarmed attack" separately from "melee weapon", suggesting that one category does not include the other. On the plus side, it means that the beak attack does get the extra Sneak Attack damage.

Ah yup, there it is. That explains why it was listed as STR then for the damage. :)

That's a real bummer for builds like lizardfolk with claw attacks, etc. Not really sure what the thinking was there, or if they just intended it to work with unarmed attacks and neglected to add it into the wording of the class feature.

As I mentioned above, Rogue is my favorite character in PFS-2e. Huge improvement over the 1e version.

Having said that, I agree that this particular issue is a silly restriction that makes little sense. It's not a huge deal, because you still get Sneak damage. Just not Dex to Damage. But it's just nonsense to make the distinction to force a Rogue to use the rapier when it might make more RP sense to use claws/beak, etc, as Apoc mentioned.

This question is unrelated to this scenario, but do thief rogues get dex to damage on thrown weapons?

This question is unrelated to this scenario, but do thief rogues get dex to damage on thrown weapons?

Unfortunately, no. From the CRB, "When you attack with a finesse melee weapon, you add your Dexterity modifier to damage...". So ranged attacks wouldn't qualify.

But, much like the finesse unarmed attacks, ranged/thrown weapons do qualify for the Sneak Attack bonuses.

I've personally never understood why they have that qualifier, but bright side, at least it's easier to be a ranged rogue in 2e than it was in 1e. 1e rogues basically had to be melee, unless they were cool dealing Sneak Attack damage in the first round (if they happened to win initiative) and basically never again thereafter.

The only workarounds I ever found were 1) take Major Magic and vanish as your spell-like ability, in which case you can only do it a few times per day; 2) take the Feint from Shadows rogue talent, in which case you can only feint if you happen to be in dim light and your opponent doesn't have low-light/darkvision (an uncommon occurrence, frankly); or 3) only play the rogue if you have a full arcane caster who can hit you with greater invisibility on a regular basis. You could also take 1 and 2 together by about 6th level (earlier if you spent a feat on Extra Rogue Talent) and have slightly more opportunities throughout the day to do both.

At least in 2e, as long as your target is flat-footed, you can get your Sneak Attack off from range. That means if two of your party is flanking (say, a melee cleric and the fighter or champion) you don't actually have to be adjacent to get SA damage, which is awesome. Sadly they haven't added any options to feint from range yet, so far as I'm aware, though I guess it'd be a lot more powerful in the 2e system than it was in 1e, with the action economy.

Ooh, I did find a rad feat/archetype combo. A rogue who takes Fighter Dedication can, at 8th level, pick up the Parting Shot feat from the APG. You don't even have to feint the target, they're just flat-footed against the attack. Oh man, I'm gonna keep that one in mind for a build somewhere down the road.

We will be starting tomorrow. So those that have not done so already please input your information in the Macro link at the top of the page.

Apologies if this is a little off-topic for our game, but ...

At least in 2e, as long as your target is flat-footed, you can get your Sneak Attack off from range. That means if two of your party is flanking (say, a melee cleric and the fighter or champion) you don't actually have to be adjacent to get SA damage, which is awesome.

Unfortunately, pretty sure it doesn't quite work that way. Flatfoot condition, CRB p.620, says "Some effects give you the flat-footed condition only to certain creatures or against certain attacks. Others—especially conditions—can make you universally flat-footed against everything."

In your example, the target is flatfooted to the cleric and the fighter due to their flanking, but not to the rogue. Now, if someone were to use something like Bottled Lightning, that makes the target Flatfoot to all.

There is a cool 6th level Rogue feat, Gang Up, which makes the target flatfoot to the Rogue whenever an ally is anywhere within melee range. But that is limited to Rogue melee attacks, not ranged.

Dang, double-checked the CRB and you're right. The condition only applies to the flanking creatures. Making a successful ranged rogue continues to elude in 2e, I guess.

That is where it works in conjunction with other classes. Like if you had a Fighter in the party with Snagging Strike a ranged rogue could work. Just a lot harder.

I am playing an Arcane trickster Rogue in a Campaign, definitely more difficult to get my spells to sneak attack until higher level.

The rogue/fighter combo with Parting Shot really isn't a bad combo, but you do have to wait until 8th level which is frustrating. I know rogues aren't meant to work in a vacuum--they have a whole party with them and all--but I'm also not sure just how many options there are for them even with party members. I was in a group with a Snagging Strike fighter and they weren't able to get it off all that often. Had there been a ranged rogue in the party, SA's would have been few and far between. (Of course, part of the problem was that Roll20's dice roller frickin' HATED us.)

I wonder how a Ranged Feint feat would work? Maybe a two-action feint? Or a feint at a -2 penalty, sort of like how ranged combat maneuvers worked in 1e? And would it be a skill feat or a class feat for specific classes? I might fiddle with that in my spare time.

Not sure about Feinting, as I've yet to play a high-Cha Rogue. The CRB defines Feint as a melee-only action. So unless you're doing a home-game, not sure Ranged Feint would be a thing.

I have a melee Rogue at 9th level (on sabbatical till June when Paizo may have a 7-10 scenario). But the 6th level feat Gang-Up (enemy counts as flatfoot as long as an ally is also in melee) works really well with the 8th level feat Opportune Backstab (trigger a free melee strike at full attack bonus, flatfoot bonus, and sneak damage when an ally connects with a melee strike). On top of all that, you get the Dex to Damage with the rapier on all those attacks. Throw in some Halfling Luck and Guiding Luck for some extra re-rolls, and life can be good.

Melee rogues can do a TON of damage -- if they can survive being in the fray.

But now, back to our regularly scheduled program, since it seems we've started!

Speaking of melee rogues...

I've selected Scout for Kaako's exploration activity which gets everyone a +1 to initiative, but for Kaako to use her Surprise Attack ability to catch opponents flat-footed, she really has to be using Avoid Notice as her exploration activity.

Is it preferable overall for her to be scouting, or is more advantageous for her to be catching opponents flat-footed on her first turn? Another plus is that she's Stealth +13, but only Perception +10, so she'll react substantially faster while avoiding notice.

I would 100% vote for Kaako using Avoid Notice. The Sneak bonus (from ranged OR melee) if Kaako goes first is too great to pass up. Plus, Kaako's own Initiative is +3 when using Stealth vs. Perception. The party has a much greater chance to succeed when the Rogue is attacking first with the Sneak damage. Very kind of you for thinking of the rest of us, but it's a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned.

I agree, go with Avoid Notice. It's a big advantage for you, which in turn is advantageous for the group. I feel like it's actually more useful to the group to get a big surprise hit in the opening round than for everyone to get a +1 to their initiatives.

Now that I've said that, I have "Search" set as my exploration activity because Jadren has a pretty good Perception (+11) but I could switch that to Scout instead if someone else wants to Search. Lavanna has a better Perception so maybe she'd be better suited, then I could Scout and we'd still get that +1. Thoughts?

Not a bad idea, Jadren. Scouting would give Kaako an additional +1 to give her an even greater chance to get some Sneak action in. And yeah, with +13, Lavanna should be Searching. That would leave Elsir to Detect Magic, if he so desires. Seems like that would give us good overall coverage.

That sounds good to me. I've also taken the pieces of the map and put them together on one slide, assuming we did that at some point.

Cool. I updated Jadren's macro to Scouting. :)

Speaking of macros, Jadren ... it probably doesn't really matter, but I believe the notes say to leave a Skill column blank if you typically wouldn't want the GM making a secret roll for you. I saw that Jadren has a few +0's and +2's in there which might garner false information on crit-fails.

Thanks for putting the map pieces together, Elsir!

Ah, I missed that! Thanks. I'll update.

I grabbed an inner sea map and traced out the voyage the captain wants us to make, as the tengu flies, so to speak. I've added it to the slide with the captain's wheel. Being all seafarers, I'm assuming that the locations of these places is not a mystery to us.

Presumably the different locations and the order in which we are supposed to travel to them has some meaning. Since we are already on a lonely island north of the Shackles, then presumably we're already at the starting point.

Nice. I just posted something very similar in the Gameplay post before I read this Discussion post or saw your map. Thanks to your initial thought about the Shackles, I was looking at the map in the CRB. Great minds think alike.

@Tyranius -- Since Pink rolled an 11 on a DC 21, that's a crit fail, yes?

Correct. Will update it at next post. Thanks I missed that

Jadren, assuming the Wave remains where it is, is there any chance you'll be stepping up to it to provide some flanking for Kaako next time we're up? It'll save her from having to Feint, and the extra 2d6 Sneak Attack damage might come in handy.