Initiative Draw. For now, I'm using a physical deck and assigning them in alpha order by character name then enemies (Enemy Wildcards will each get a card, but the only wildcard in this combat is the robot pilot).
Abe no Toshiro Ace of Clubs
Ami Swiftblade 2 of Clubs
Jethro Tull Maxton Jack of Spades
Samuel Antonidas 4 of Clubs
Sun Li Tao 4 of Spades
Zhan 10 of Diamonds
Enemies King of Hearts
So Order is:
Abe no Toshiro
Enemies
Jethro
Zhan
Sun Li
Samuel
Ami
Let's get the ball rolling and see how this goes. Typically, in d20 based games, I run with a cloud initiative where anyone can post who is in that initiative group. So it would be Abe, then me, then everyone else when they have a chance to post, then Abe, then me. Keeps things moving.
Manifesting 3 powers; Quickness comes out as a Free action, then Speed and Smite are both actions without the -2. As a free action he also manifests his sword, armor, and shield.
Once prepared, he heads off.
"Let us dispatch these foes quickly."
And I'm moving at a Pace of 16 toward the nearest bad guy.
Made a couple of last minute adjustments, but pretty much ready to go now. A couple questions for the GM I'll send by PM. Question about specialty rounds in the discussion forum will likely determine who and how I'm likely to use my first action...
Pretty sure that is Abe closest to me. I'm going to be over explicit in describing what I'm doing in case I make any mistakes.
They are all within 24 inches of Abe. Seeing him running toward them, they will focus fire on him. I don't think they will hit all that much, though it may get harry.
ROF 3, shooting 1, Shooting d8, not a Wildcard. They have a ROF 3 and can ignore recoil if they don't move, but since the moved forward I'm going to have them just use one shot to make my life easier.
Red Skelebot Shooting Target 8:1d8 ⇒ 1
Dark Red Skelebot Shooting Target 8:1d8 ⇒ 5
Orange Red Skelebot Shooting Target 8:1d8 ⇒ 4
Yellow Red Skelebot Shooting Target 8:1d8 ⇒ 5
Green Red Skelebot Shooting Target 8:1d8 ⇒ 7
I think I understand correctly that it takes an 8 to hit Abe. I'm not sure why it takes an 8 to hit him instead of a 4?
Gaius' throat clearing was referring, I believe, to the fact that he is not on the initiative list, and not an attempt to rush you...
Skelebots use Laser rifles, which do not experience recoil penalties, so they could fire full auto if you wanted them too. I usually just list them all in one dice roll, like this:
RoF 3:1d8 ⇒ 41d8 ⇒ 81d8 ⇒ 8
The rifles also have the Heavy Pulse feature, which is more or less like a 3-round burst function, and requiring only one roll.
Tomorrow Legion Pg 99 wrote:
Heavy Pulse: Energy weapons fired in this mode are RoF 1, use three Shots, add +1 to the Shooting roll, +3 to the damage roll, and apply the Snapfire and Mega Damage qualities.
You could add that +1 to the attacks retroactively, making the top roll an 8, which would actually still miss him. You asked above why it takes a ROTN of 8 to hit him, and it is because he is using his energy shield. He has the ability to manifest a shield in his off hand by the same process a Cyber-Knight creates his blade. This would change his RATN from the typical 4 to an 8, except that Cyber-Knights are also resistant to technology, meaning any tech weapon that targets him (such as a laser rifle) is at another -2. This makes his RATN 10 against these particular foes.
Ranges in the manuals are all listed in squares, which are about 2 meters each. That means the short range of the CR-1 is 100 squares, of 200 meters, meaning the robot is well within its short range, which means no range penalty. The robot suit is also size Large, which gives all opponents a +2 to hit it, or a RATN of 2 instead of the typical 4. So, your roll of 4 would hit, but not with a raise.
GM SuperTumbler wrote:
I think that is successful, allowing him to fire half of the missiles he can fire.
4 light missiles and 2 medium missiles. It looks to me like there is not a roll to hit with missiles? Pilot just has to evade them?
Which is Piloting roll at -4
I think that is right... Missiles don't come up often. He'll need just a standard success to evade, but with the -4 that leaves him with a target number of 8.
GM SuperTumbler wrote:
The skelebots focus their fire on the advancing cyberknight. He disappears in a hail of laser bolts, but comes out unscathed.
A bevy of rockets and missiles launch at the Robotech pilot.
He is a MechWarrior pilot. We have a Robotech pilot as well. We don't want to get confused.
I'm going to try to spell out the rules implications of my actions as I go, not to be patronizing, just to show my work in regards to learning the rules better.
Zhan moves forward towards the edge of the ridge. As he gets closer, he drops prone in order to use the edge as hard cover from the skelebots. From where he is laying, he has a good view of the giant robot, but blocking both his line of sight to the Skelebots, as well as their line of sight to him.
With a blocked line of sight, he won't be able to shoot at the Skelies until he moves, but then, they won't be able to shoot back at him either.
Psionics Smite:1d10 ⇒ 11d6 ⇒ 5 Psionics Greater Protection (Toughness):1d10 ⇒ 61d6 ⇒ 2 These are both innate abilities, so are considered Free actions, and do not cause a Multi-Action Penalty. Smite usually costs 2 ISP, but with the Self limitation, it is reduced by one. The Channeler Edge reduces it to 0. Protection also has the Self limitation, which would be cost 0, but Greater adds +3 and Toughness adds +2. Channeler reduces the total to 4 ISP. He has a Hero's Journey ability that always allows him to take the Raise effect, even with only a basic success. As a result, his Toughness will be temporarily increased to 23(6), or 27(6) vs. energy attacks.
Bringing his primitive slug-throwing rifle up to his shoulder, he draws a bead on the array of specialized electronics rising above the giant mech's shoulder.
Called Shot on Robot's Sensor Array:1d10 + 4 - 4 ⇒ (6) + 4 - 4 = 61d6 + 4 - 4 + 1d6 + 1d6 ⇒ (6) + 4 - 4 + (6) + (1) = 13 Since he moved this round, his rifle would be at -2 due to it being a Snapfire weapon. The Sensor array is listed as a -4 to hit, so he'd suffer a -4 for the Called Shot. I count about 55 squares, putting the range at Medium, for another -2. However, with the Sharpshooter Edge, he can ignore up to -4 in penalties, giving him a total -4 modifier.
Damage with a Raise AP 8:3d12 + 4 + 1d6 + 1d12 ⇒ (12, 6, 1) + 4 + (4) + (10) = 37
The sensor array (STS) is that thing sticking up over the robot's left shoulder in the pictures; it is supposed to be responsible for all the mech's advanced targeting. Usually a mech can ignore -2 in penalties due to it's combat computer; this should eliminate that ability, as well as the ability to Lock on to a target. Without the array, any future missile attacks would have to be Dumb fired.
Gaius' throat clearing was referring, I believe, to the fact that he is not on the initiative list, and not an attempt to rush you...
This is correct.
GM SuperTumbler wrote:
That won't hit because of range penalties. What do I have to hit to hit the robot? Anything change that from the standard?
Yes. I have the Killing Machine Edge, which allows personal edges to apply to the robot. So my Dodge edge applies, raising the number needed to hit it by two. However, since most things (except your robot) get +2 for size, this just cancels it out.
Zhan wrote:
He is a MechWarrior pilot. We have a Robotech pilot as well. We don't want to get confused.
This is also correct. Battletech was made by FASA, a small start up company that loves all people and only knows goodness as it walks the earth making a better future for all mankind. Robotech is run by Harmony Gold. =p
And the Enforcer tries to lock missiles onto Gauis Robot. Page 79 on the Core Rulebook says this is an opposed Electronics vs Piloting.
Now, I may be wrong here (and let's face it I usually am) but with an opposed roll (from page 88) the attacker gets to roll (the mean, evil bad guys, in this case), and then the defender (the glorious hero of our story) gets to roll and it must "meet or exceed the first character’s result or the attacker wins." the opposed roll. Hence, since meeting the number denies the attacker the win, it looks like ties go to the defender.
I think I understand correctly that it takes an 8 to hit Abe. I'm not sure why it takes an 8 to hit him instead of a 4?
Toshiro has Psi-Shield, which imparts a -4 cover penalty to all ranged attacks against him. I figured this was more easily written as needing an 8 to hit, rather than requiring you to add a -4 to all attack rolls but only against two people in the party.
Depending on the exact weapon he would have a further -2, but since this isn't universal (unlike the Psi-Shield, which will be active in almost all situations) I didn't put it as RATN 10.
Relevant Abilities:
Psi-Shield (Edge): Cyber-Knights with this Edge can summon a Psi-Shield, granting +3 Parry and a −4 Cover penalty to ranged strikes against
her, see Shields in Savage Worlds. The PsiShield costs no ISP and can be summoned as a free action. While activated, the Psi-Shield can be used to bash for Str+2d4 damage, and provides the wielder's Spirit in MDC Armor if an enemy attempts to shoot through it.
^This is the source of effective RATN 8.
Cyberkinetic Combat: Any electronic technology-based attacks
such as lasers, rail guns, and vibroblades suffer a −2 to hit a CyberKnight.
^This is the potential further -2.
Depending on whether those trees are really part of the terrain, I likely would have had a further cover bonus; it's why I positioned myself there instead of moving an extra 2 squares.
And the Enforcer tries to lock missiles onto Gauis Robot. Page 79 on the Core Rulebook says this is an opposed Electronics vs Piloting.
Now, I may be wrong here (and let's face it I usually am) but with an opposed roll (from page 88) the attacker gets to roll (the mean, evil bad guys, in this case), and then the defender (the glorious hero of our story) gets to roll and it must "meet or exceed the first character’s result or the attacker wins." the opposed roll. Hence, since meeting the number denies the attacker the win, it looks like ties go to the defender.
I didn't know the answer, so I looked it up.
SWADE, Pg 88 wrote:
The acting character in an opposed roll always gets his Trait total first (including spending any Bennies, see page 89), and must get at least a basic success (TN 4) or he fails. The defender rolls next and must exceed the first character’s result or the attacker wins.
The winner also uses his opponent’s total for purposes of determining raise effects.
So, as the Acter in this situation is the Evil Bad-Guys, as without their action, there would be no need to defend. The Defender, which seems clear, would be our heroic hero of heroicness. As he needs to exceed the attacking roll, it appears that in this case, like most other defenses in Savage Worlds, the tie actually goes to the attacker.
It appears that our fortunately heavily armoured Hero is going to have to visit explosion town after all. Though on second thought, this contested roll was just for the missile lock; he still gets a pilot roll to avoid the missiles.
...The defender rolls next and must exceed the first character’s result or the attacker wins.
Confound this is the oddest thing (So I'm either too sober or too drunk, dangerous things both). Yes, as that is what it is, the defender must certainly exceed the roll. Now, funny thing. In my book, and this is a direct copy&paste: " The defender rolls next and must meet or exceed the first character’s result or the attacker wins." {emphasis in text.}
Can someone else get us verification of this? Imma ready to toss my book out the window. And since the book is on the laptop things could get messy....
My copy of SWADE, which is the latest release, says "The defender rolls next and must meet or exceed the first character’s result or the attacker wins." Don't throw your book out, Gauis, it's Zhan's book that's out-of-date.
SWADE itself has gone thru several minor revisions since the first "official" book was released. If you bought the PDF from PEG, you have an unlimited number of re-downloads to get the newest versions.
Oh, also as part of the summary I left out :
Gauis needs to get an initiative card. Or, just act with the rest of us since the enemy has already acted.
Huh. That's odd of them. Well since the enemies have already gone I think the GM would be well within his rights to say that I get a deuce of Hearts and party is up!
Re: Initiative. Ah, I see that now. I'll Just pull the 2 of clubs out of the deck to account for that. Sorry Gauis.
The Skelebot build is weird. They seem to have lots of edges that have no effect on their weapons. Everything makes sense narratively, but doesn't work together all that well from a rules perspective. Which is fine.
Yes, I'm all for everyone explaining everything they are doing as explicitly as possible.
I'm realizing that my already slow post rate may be even slower here as I try to digest everything you guys are saying. I want to thank you for your patience and your generosity.
"Damage negligible, honey," Anya's computer-generated voice chimed in Gauis' ears after the rocket made contact.
"Copy that. Let's engage the big thing," he says, lining up his targeting laser on the opposing battlemech.
Heh. 'Battlemech'. He still called them that. He knew that on this planet...whatever planet this was...they called them 'robot armor'. Neither of those words sounded right to him and he suspected he'd take this habit to his grave.
"Ordinance on the way!"
I'm firing two weapons, the right-arm mounted Dual-linked Medium rail guns, and the left-arm mounted Heavy Laser. That's two weapons, so I get a -2 MAP penalty to all my rolls. Also, since the Medium rail gun is firing more than one shot (and, indeed, must fire all 3 shots because rail gun) that also gives me another -2 on the shooting roll. (Honestly, I'm a bit unclear as to if the recoil penalty on the rail gun also applies to the laser, but that won't matter in a bit.)
Now that's a total of -4 to each roll, but I get to negate 2 of that from the STS on the robot, and I ignore another 2 from my personal cybernetics of a Range Data System. (I understand there may be differing opinions on this, but it is by the rules that they stack, so to avoid arcane debate and for simplicity we're just going to go with RAW.)
Lastly, since the Rail gun is 'Dual-Linked', that means that it gets +1 to hit and +2 damage because it's actually two guns glued together and shooting at the same time. If they were Quad-linked they'd get +2/+4.
Another thing...with automatic fire (in this case, firing 3 shots) on page 93 it spells this out. I roll the number of times I'm firing (3) and then I get my Wild Die, and the Wild Die can replace ONE roll.
Hey Gauis, I'm pretty sure the wild die is never modified, just a straight exploding D6.
You would think that, and it would make more sense... We had a long debate about it in another game thread, and for some reason the game designers took the point of view that it does in fact get modified. It makes no sense, and I believe it flies in the face of the supposed purpose of the wild die, but it is what it is.
We tried a few times to get the designers to comment on why they would seemingly undermine their own rules with this decision, but the only thing they would ever say was basically thems the rules.
The Robot pilot is a Wildcard, so he could spend a Bennie to soak some of that damage. I also probably neglected some of his Edge abilities.
Round 2 Initiative
Abe No Toshiro Queen of Clubs
Ami Swiftblade Jack of Clubs
Jethro Tull Maxton King of Spades
Samuel Antonidas 2 of Hearts
Sun Li Tao 3 of Hearts
Zhan King of Clubs
Gauis 10 of Spades
Skelebots 4 of Hearts
Seeing the CS Mech take a hail of gunfire from the mech on his right, he smiles, and army crawls the last few meters to the edge of the ridge. Once there, he takes a quick survey of the remaining skelebots, and lines up his shots.
Looking up Cover, it lists a -4 to hit for medium cover or target being prone. With Zhan elevated behind the ridge, I'm imagining he is even less visible. Heavy cover (less than 25% visible) inflicts a -6 to hit. Gm's call which fits better.
Attack vs. purple (Called Shot Head):1d10 + 4 - 2 ⇒ (8) + 4 - 2 = 101d6 + 4 - 2 ⇒ (1) + 4 - 2 = 3 Zhan's skill is d10+2. The rifle is custom fit, giving the effect of Trademark Weapon, and a red dot sight, for a total of d10+4. He's -2 for Snapfire, as he had to move again, and he's doing a head shot, for another -4. He can ignore up to -4 in penalties, giving him a total minus of -2.
Damage AP 8 w/raise:3d12 + 4 + 4 + 1d6 ⇒ (7, 5, 7) + 4 + 4 + (1) = 28 +4 damage added in for the headshot.
Sun Li rises up from the hillside where he had been taking cover behind and begins to rush in closer to support his squadmates. The skelebots leave him a little disgruntled; damn machines were always a pain to try and deal with. He rushes over to the trees, getting as far as he can before he slides to the ground for cover.
Running Die:1d6 ⇒ 4
I will run and then go prone as a free action. I totally spaced doing my header but I do have Quick for next round's drawing. I'll get it up and done ASAP.
For everyone else, if you could possibly put a section for what conditions you're under in your header, it would be useful to me to see what buffs could apply to you and also help our good GM know what we have going on.
Sliding in behind the trees, he would see the strange serpentine creature closing in the distance between. While their physiology may be different, some things were the same; the mind governs all. Reaching out towards Ami, the Lyn-Srial would feel the mindmelter's presence before she heard him speak in her mind.
"I have your back." His thoughts said for just a moment as he began to intrinsically understand her being. Her mind would switch into overdrive, acting with a combination of both instinct and training to strike, parry, and destroy faster. It was not only that but she also just felt faster, the psionic power coursing through her being.
I am going to cast Boost/Lower Trait targetting Ami's Fighting. I am also adding the modifier of Hurry for an additional power point. If successful, her Fighting will raise up one die type and she gains +2 to Pace. On a raise, her Fighting will raise up 2 die types and she gains a +2 to pace. It costs me 3 power points with a duration of 5 rounds.
Ami files another 8" and lands in front of the Red skelebot (map updated).
First action : attack the skelebot with her sword. Two rolls of Fighting due to the Frenzy Edge; take the best 2 out of 3. Fighting:1d12 + 2 ⇒ (11) + 2 = 131d12 + 2 ⇒ (11) + 2 = 131d6 + 2 ⇒ (6) + 2 = 8 Wild ACE!:1d6 ⇒ 4 = 12
GM ST, you've already posted the skelebot's Toughness, how would you feel about posting their Parry so we can determine whether we've hit them or not, and whether or not to include the extra d6 damage from a Raise?
Assuming the first 13 hits, she does
Damage:2d6 + 2d12 ⇒ (3, 4) + (3, 9) = 19, AP 24
If it hits with a Raise :
Damage:1d6 ⇒ 6 Damage ACE!:1d6 ⇒ 1 = 26, AP 24
Assuming the second 13 hits, she does
Damage:2d6 + 2d12 ⇒ (3, 2) + (6, 6) = 17, AP 24
If it hits with a Raise :
Damage:1d6 ⇒ 6 Damage ACE!:1d6 ⇒ 1 = 24, AP 24
Since you've said their Toughness is 17(7), it looks like my first attack would bring it down. So I would move 2" to the Dark Red skelebot and attack it with my second action.
=====================================================================
Second action : attack the skelebot with her sword. No MAP for 2 actions due to racial build. Two rolls of Fighting due to the Advanced Frenzy Edge; take the best 2 out of 3. Fighting:1d12 + 2 ⇒ (4) + 2 = 61d12 + 2 ⇒ (12) + 2 = 141d6 + 2 ⇒ (6) + 2 = 8 Fighting *and* Wild ACE!:1d12 ⇒ 71d6 ⇒ 3 = 21, 11
Assuming the 21 hits, she does
Damage:2d6 + 2d12 ⇒ (3, 3) + (4, 5) = 15, AP 24
If it hits with a Raise :
Damage:1d6 ⇒ 4 = 19, AP 24
Assuming the 11 hits, she does
Damage:2d6 + 2d12 ⇒ (5, 5) + (12, 5) = 27 Damage ACE!:1d12 ⇒ 8 = 35, AP 24
If it hits with a Raise :
Damage:1d6 ⇒ 1 = 36, AP 24
UAR Pilot Soak Roll (Piloting):1d8 ⇒ 1 Wild Die:1d6 ⇒ 4
That 4 Soaks 1 Wound, bringing the Robot to 3 Wounds. Because of its size I believe it can take 4. So I guess that makes it still operational. Still Shaken.
GM ST, you've already posted the skelebot's Toughness, how would you feel about posting their Parry so we can determine whether we've hit them or not, and whether or not to include the extra d6 damage from a Raise?
Skelebot Parry is 6. All of the enemy Stats are in the document linked at the top of the page "Combat Stats." I'm going to use that to keep track of stats and edges and such so that I don't have to dig through rulebooks every time I need to post. You guys are welcome to use it.
Excellent! Um, do you also plan to roll for its critical hit and Falling down roll? That might be a lot of work for you so, if you would like, I could roll that now, just so that you can see what the effect would be. =)
Enforcer rolls!:
Critical hit!:2d6 ⇒ (1, 5) = 6
Okay, 6-8 is a chasis hit which is no additional effect. The lucky dog!
I'm not sure why I was confused before, but, yes, each wound reduces Handling by 1, and Handling is added to the piloting check, so each wound reduces the net result of a Piloting check. Like the Falling Down check after each hit with a wound. ^_^
"He's still up, honey. Real tough cowboy that one. You might be here all day."
"Hope not, darlin'."
Gauis had to hand it to the other pilot. He'd personally hand-cranked the rail gun to make sure it was tossing out the best stuff. There weren't many vehicles on this ball of mud that could take even one taste of Ol' Painless and still stay standing.
"I'll raise a glass of synthohol to you, brother pilot!" Gauis called before checking himself. He didn't have to endure the tasteless drek of synthohol on this world anymore. They had the real stuff. The good stuff. And it was so fragging good!
Edit: Since it's still Shaken that all looks soakable if you wanna toss some bennies. I believe, unlike soft, squishy hu-mans, vehicles do not get the Wound penalty.
Heavy LazerZ!:1d12 - 4 + 4 ⇒ (8) - 4 + 4 = 8 Heavy LazerZ Damage! AP30! Raise!:4d10 + 1d6 ⇒ (7, 1, 6, 8) + (6) = 28 Raise damage Ace!!:1d6 ⇒ 2 = 30. Well, that might be a bit harder to Soak. ^_^
I believe, unlike soft, squishy hu-mans, vehicles do not get the Wound penalty.
If you're talking about being Shaken : in Chases, SWADE says "Vehicles cannot be Shaken, but if damage equals or exceeds their Toughness (whether they take a Wound or not), the driver must make a maneuvering roll or go Out of Control (see page 119)". So if the vehicle is "Shaken" (damage between Toughness and Toughness+3), it does not have to recover from that condition, but must make an Out of Control roll.
If you're talking about current Wounds affecting the Soak, since nothing in the Chase rules says current Wounds do not affect the Soak, standard rules apply, so subtract current Wounds from the Soak roll. Also, technically, vehicle Wounds cannot be Soaked at all unless the pilot has the Ace Edge.
GM ST : the rules for falling are on page 109 of SWADE RIFTS : if the robot vehicle suffers a Wound the operator must make a Piloting check or it falls (this replaces the Out of Control rules) and suffers Xd6 damage, where X is the Size of the vehicle. I have put a question into PEG for what happens when the damage taken is between Toughness and Toughness+3 in RIFTS.
I really appreciate all of that info, Ami and Gauis. I knew none of it. I'm going to have to look up those rules and digest it all. You guys feel free to go on, roll for the opponents if you need to. You have their stats. I'll catch up when I can. I should have 5 move Bennies.
