GM ShadowLord's Tyrant's Grasp - Group 2 (Inactive)

Game Master The Rising Phoenix

Group 2 thread is up!

So posting this here instead.

1) For story feats these are the ones I saw that I thought would make the most sense for Aralah: Explorer, Feral Heart, Foeslayer (Human), Truth-Seeker, Unforgotten (possibly?)

2) A list of Teamwork Feats someone else composed that I thought was very well thought out. Of course, would be up for group discussion.

Shake it Off
Lookout
Escape Route
Spirit of the Corps
Stealth Synergy
Stick Together
Swap Places
Swarm Strike
Tandem Trip
Trade Initiative
Passing Grace
Ferocious Loyalty
Bonded Mind

3) Two options I see for Aralah in regards to a NPC connection. First, either another higher up in the Pathfinder society possibly even a connection to another character (more on that in #4). Second, someone she can train with, maybe a Sarenite monk or something?

4) Two potential tie-ins I see with Team 2 characters. First, Laurel with his brother Thras being a Pathfinder and Aralah being a Pathfinder there could be a connection there. Maybe Aralah, since it is her first official outing as a Pathfinder is under Thras's tutelage or maybe there is a romantic entanglement, would depend on how Thras was IC. Second, Mithralline I would imagine is frustrated with the Pathfinders for stealing her glory. Maybe Aralah ran into Mithralline at a tavern or something and they got into it a bit, but I could see them becoming friends with the whole pushing Mith to do better thing that she mentioned.

6) Crunch should be good aside from any extras like Story/Teamwork feats.

7) In regards to lack of Arcane. I think we should be ok, but as noted previously, while I'm looking forward to Aralah, I can make something new to fit an arcane role if needed.

So posting this here instead.

1) For story feats these are the ones I saw that I thought would make the most sense for Aralah: Explorer, Feral Heart, Foeslayer (Human), Truth-Seeker, Unforgotten (possibly?)

I like either Unforgotten first, then Truth-Seeker. Either of those work for me.

If you are ok with handling the behind the screen of Unforgotten I think that could prove for some really interesting RP at some point.

I have been known to do such things on occasion. Consider it done!

While I go and read all of Team 2's submissions now :D here's a quick summary of Rose so you have somewhere to start to riff off of if you wish.

A quick bit about Rose, she's an elf who has been living in the town for about 30 years. She has been teaching the children of the town for that period of time. Her method of teaching is very hands on, involving roaming around the countryside and learning from everything. She is patterned on an old Microbiology professor of mine who took us out into the field and taught us all sorts of fun things in addition to the practical microbiology. Very fun, not a stuffy school marm type. If you grew up here, you probably were taught by her if you and/or your parents wished, she attracted children to school by making it fun rather than forcing anything official.

She is a Shaman (Speaker for the Past), so has numerous knowledge skills. I'm going to focus her more on crowd control abilities with her backup being a bow.

She came here to ferret around the battlefields, listening to the spirits of the dead, and looking for interesting artifacts that she could return to family members. My view of the dead she speaks for isn't just her own ancestors, but more broadly anyone of the dead with a strong spirit and wisdom to learn from. She doesn't tell people she speaks with dead spirits, she was not treated well growing up by those around her who thought she was insane. She passes off what she learns as knowledge she's researched/uncovered.

She went through the rebuilding, pitching in for everything and helping everyone rebuild from scratch, she's a Reclaimer.

She's generally a very bright, sunny, and optimistic person. She has a 'momma bear' attitude about anyone that hurts people she views as under her 'protection'; she won't hesitate for a second in bringing that to an end.

Her one noticeable quirk is that she tends to have one sided conversations with herself, under her breath if she thinks anyone is around, but if anyone listened in under her cottage window or something like that, you'll have noticed that she can get quite argumentative with herself. (Read my RP bio if you want to know the details, but she's never told anyone her "secret" and tries to hide it. Sometimes she even thinks she succeeds at it.)

I too haven't spent my teamwork feat and am up for story/teamwork feats with anyone.

1) Story feats. For Mithralline, I'm thinking one of the following may work for Mithralline, though she technically doesn't meet the prereqs for most of them:
* Overachiever (though she would argue that it's not overachieving, she's doing what she should be doing)
* Fearless Zeal (I think the idea of being fearless and full of zeal both work for her, though as written this is far more religious than I envisioned her)
* Standing Tall (again, the flavor of this doesn't quite match with her, but the idea of standing tall is very much in her wheelhouse; not sure if we'll be in a single location long enough that she'd have a chance to complete the feat)
* We Are The Wall (fluff includes "You embody your family’s legendary monster-hunters," which is actually perfect. That said, I'm not sure it's possible for her to complete this feat in this AP).
* Champion (this feels pretty apropos for Mithralline)

2) Teamwork feats. Remember not every one is available. I love Shake It Off, but I think it's really super powerful. Same with Escape Route (which isn't one of our current options, but which Mithralline has as her bonus cavalier teamwork feat). At any rate ...

I'll offer more thoughts when I get a better look at everyone's characters.

3) You need to have someone in Roslar’s Coffer you are attached to.

I'll give some thought to this and post some ideas ASAP.

4) Background tie-ins.

Mithralline could probably be attached to anyone who's from Vigil; she's also been in Roslar's Coffer for about a year, I think, so that offers potential too. I think she and Samalgee could have developed a friendship; the gnome's pacficism wouldn't make much sense, but she'd like her optimistic attitude. She might also like Rose, but I don't know if they'd be as close, as Mithralline doesn't think she needs anyone teaching her.

I don't really see Mithralline as frustrated with the Pathfinders. It was simply done before she got the chance. She is certainly somewhat about glory but more about proving doubters wrong, and I'm not seeing that having happened with the reaver being beaten before she arrived.

7. Arcane breakdown. We have Sarela so we have a full arcane caster. That said, I'm not sure if Phntm is envisioning her more as a healer? If so, I feel like we've maybe got a bit too much healing; one dedicated healer oracle and then a cleric, plus a shaman (though looks like Rose also might be dabbling with some arcane?). If Sarela is going for some more offensive power, I think we're fine in terms of spellcasting.

I'm actually a little more concerned about whether we have enough frontline power, depending on how Laurel and Aralah plan to approach combat (looks like Laurel will be more of a melee character while Aralah is listed as ranged). Mithralline is certainly a frontline character, but she'll be at her best when she can move around, going against multiple foes.

Here are the story feats that make the most sense, the first two are ones I would prefer because they have the most relevance to her background and generally provide better benefits. I included the other two to give you more options and if the first two would be harder to fit into the campaign. I used the list on story feats if there is a different one I'll go look at that.

Forgotten Past: Perhaps she's shut out the memories of why her father left because it was traumatic or perhaps her mother fiddled with her memories when she was young so she doesn't remember.

Glimpse Beyond: Fits with the madness angle of her ancestry and the fact that she talks with spirits all of the time.

Protector of the People: She'd like to make certain the town is protected when she moves on, she's not really a crafter type, but spending time and effort to do this makes sense given her motivations.

Truth-Seeker: This seems pretty fitting, it's a bit less story heavy, but fits with her predilections and what adventuring groups generally do.

Potential Character Tie-ins, I'll throw out some possible ideas, but I'm not married to any of them.

Aralah: I don't really see a tie-in, Rose would love to learn more of what you've known and experienced, she's an inveterate devourer of people's life stories.

Mithralline: Rose and you could have bonded over stories of the prior battles and what she knows about the attackers or she could have showed you around the battlefields and walked you through the tactics and troup disposition they used in attacking the town.

Samalgee: You could have been a student of Rose's, your parents and Rose could have bonded over a love of gardening, or when rebuilding the town she helped rebuild your home and gardens.

Aralah: You are about 30 and lived in town all your life, Rose has known you all your life. She could have been a teacher of yours or your siblings, she could have been one of the ones that found you when you were hidden, she could have sheltered you and your siblings in her cottage (if you want, instead of the tavern), or any number of other possible links.

Sarela: You are slightly older than 30, Rose has known you nearly your entire life (well except when you were away). Your mother and her might have been the only full blooded elves in the town. They probably plotted the elven overthrow of the humans over herbal tea. Rose and you certainly share a love of gardening and nature.

Arcane: At 3rd level, Samalgee will be able to flex into a small number of any arcane spells as needed so that will help a little.

Background tie-ins: Yes I definitely think Sam would have been a student of Rose. They have gardening and optimism in common though it sounds like different responses when someone they care about is threatened. Sam rushes to heal instead of stopping the evil person.

Will keep considering as I have more time! Looking forward to everything with you guys!

Hey all, I'm off to NYC so probably won't get a chance to post much until Sunday. (This is Mithralline; posting under my main alias, because I still want to change her last name and only have a few more posts to do so.)

1) Story feats. For Mithralline, I'm thinking one of the following may work for Mithralline, though she technically doesn't meet the prereqs for most of them:

* Overachiever (though she would argue that it's not overachieving, she's doing what she should be doing)
* Champion (this feels pretty apropos for Mithralline)

I like Overachiever and Champion best and would be happy with either one of those two.

Here are the story feats that make the most sense, the first two are ones I would prefer because they have the most relevance to her background and generally provide better benefits.

Forgotten Past: Perhaps she's shut out the memories of why her father left because it was traumatic or perhaps her mother fiddled with her memories when she was young so she doesn't remember.

Glimpse Beyond: Fits with the madness angle of her ancestry and the fact that she talks with spirits all of the time.

I like them both. I love Glimpse beyond, but man that goal is pretty brutal. If you are up for the struggle with insanity, I say go for it. Otherwise, Forgotten Past is a solid choice.

Hey all, I'm off to NYC so probably won't get a chance to post much until Sunday.

Have a great trip!

So for Aralah, she is definitely ranged focused. She can get up in melee as a last resort, but her skill is with the bow. For generally party contribution she will serve well as the guide with her high survival, will be the disable device monkey (though no trapfinding for magical traps) and has some decent Knowledges.

As for the character herself, she is a bit of loner due to her past traumatic experience. Obviously, being a newely graduated Pathfinder she has learned the necessity of cooperation, but when not on assignment sticks to herself.

People may have run into her at the tavern as she drinks with some frequency, not in excess but enough to dull her senses when there isn't anything else to keep her occupied and she is left alone to her own thoughts. She has only been in town as long as the Pathfinders have been there exploring and cataloging the temple.

I think her strongest potential tie-in is with Laurel through his brother. Sent a PM to discuss further.

Hi all! Excited to get started!

1) Story feats:
I think that Deny the Reaper would perhaps be the most fitting, but I could also see Unforgotten would work, and Vengeance could work as long as the campaign goes after the members of the Twisted Nail tribe and/or a possible master of the Red Reaver. Since Aralah seems to be going with Unforgotten, then I would prefer Deny the Reaper, but if you really think Vengeance would be more interesting I'm open to that as well.

2) Teamwork feats: I think it's important to note we don't all have to pick the same feat. For instance, some of the melee people could take one feat while the casters could take another.

Here is a list that we can get at level 1 that don't require taking other feats (but may require other prerequisites, like 1 skill rank in certain skills)
Allied Spellcaster: I wouldn't be opposed to this one.
Collective Recollection: Laurel would be good as the person aiding, on certain skills.
Coordinated Defense: Not bad, not terribly interesting either.
Coordinated Maneuvers: Meh, you still provoke so you'd have to take other feats.
Distracting Charge: Not bad, wouldn't be opposed.
Duck and Cover: This one seems pretty decent.
Elemental Commixture: Complicated, but very fun. Unfortunately I don't think we have enough potential to really make use of this with our staggered casting that is mostly divine in nature.
Extend the Bulwark: Can only wear light armor, don't care for this one.
Feint Partner: Laurel isn't a bluffer, but if somebody else wants to make a feint build he wouldn't be opposed.
Ferocious Loyalty: Nice! Fits thematically as well, although admittedly isn't good for anybody that's not making attack rolls.
Intercept Charge: Weird and circumstantial, but could definitely be a life saver if a frontliner blocked a charge against a fragile caster.
Lookout: Never a bad feat. There's a reason inquisitors use this one so much.
Overwhelm: Meh. Definitely not useful at low levels, where huge+ foes are highly unlikely.
Shake it Off: As powerful as it sounds, especially since it freaking stacks. Never bad.
Shielded Caster: Could be rather useful for casters at low levels. Wouldn't mind this.
Stealth Synergy: Really nice if we have more than one person who can be a scout. Not for me personally.
Swap Places: A feat that really should be a combat option. Useful for crowded combat situations..meh, it's ok, not great.
Swarm Scatter: Surprisingly powerful due to the scaling AC bonus. Basically the AC version of shake it off, plus a highly situational rat swarm immunity.
Swarm Strike: Mediocre at best. I guess if somebody provokes from the entire party while we're surrounding them...but they're probably dead in that case anyways.
Tandem Trip: Actually really broken for a trip build. I have no interest in this, but others might.
Team Pickpocketing: Not interested, and don't think it's thematically appropriate or useful either.
Tribe Mentality: Seems pretty good, any AoE or mass targeting spells that are compulsion/emotion we get to use the best save for. Fear, dragon aura, mass charm, etc.

Feats I would be willing to take: Allied Spellcaster, Collective Recollection, Distracting Charge, Duck and Cover, Ferocious Loyalty, Intercept Charge, Lookout, Shake it Off, Shielded Caster, Swarm Scatter, Tribe Mentality.

However I want to note something: While I picked up a neat trick that allows me to be not-useless in melee, and I can hit undead fairly hard, Laurel is still definitely a secondary melee character. He doesn't pack terribly high AC or HP, so if he is constantly on the frontline he will likely go down frequently.

3) Laurel has lived in Roslar's Coffer his entire life, but his parents are dead and all his siblings are either dead or missing. However he would have a lot more connections with the people of the town, especially the monastery of Saranrae. Would you like me to make some more details on particular NPCs in the town? It wouldn't alter my background at all, just include some more details.

4) Laurel has spent his entire life in Roslar's Coffer. The first ten years of his life were spent living with his family on their farm. They were friendly neighbors who came to the town frequently to sell food and buy supplies. He spent the next ten years living with his siblings in the monastery of Saranrae. He spent the most recent ten years helping to reclaim and rebuild the town, although seemed a bit dead inside until the arrival of his brother stoked a fire in him.

In short, he has been in the town his entire life of 30 years.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alright so now onto other stuff.

I think this party may actually push the bounds of "too much healing".

We have:
Laurel: A channel-focused positive energy cleric
Samalgee: A healbot oracle
Aralah: Inquisitor, but who does has cure magic
Mithralline: No healing
Rose: A shaman who doesn't seem focused on healing but can prepare cure spells if desired
Sarela: A witch with the healing patron

Literally our party

I'm not terribly concerned with this, I just want to make sure that we don't end up having enough healing to make a tarrasque jealous while having no other magic available to us.

My only concern comes from Samalgee's character. I don't like to step on creativity or interesting concepts, but pacifism doesn't work in Pathfinder.

79: Don’t make a pacifist character. It’s D&D. Fighting happens. Pacifism is for NPCs.

Now if you're wanting to quickly make a change at the beginning of the adventure, that's fine, but personally I've had the experience of going through many levels with a pacifist character at the table, and it quickly devolves into either endless arguments or simply ignoring the player in question, both of which are situations I would rather avoid.

Story feats: Battlefield healer or conciliator make the most sense for Sam, I think. On a mostly unrelated note, I'm going to keep track of how long it takes Sam to qualify for Healer's Touch in case I ever decide to take that.

Tie-in with Laurel: As I understand, the last time the Twisted Nails hit Roslar's Coffer was 12 years ago so Sam is 22. I agree that Sam and Laurel have probably hit it off as fellow healers who are determined to be optimistic. We could come up with some shared times when we healed a bunch of folk to have specific stories to refer back to.

Heals: This OotS also came to mind.

Sam's pacifism: Don't judge a book by it's cover too quickly. Sam's a pacficist, alright. Quite strongly. She'll support her friends no matter what (unless they try to be downright evil) but will often ask that we seek a peaceful solution. She also will be pragmatic enough to buff and contribute in other ways. I'm leaving it as an open question whether or not the things she experiences in this adventure ever cause her to re-consider her pacifism and to what degree. If the majority of the party or the GM desires it, I can play another character entirely, some sort of front-liner. But as long as I'm playing Sam, she definitely has to start as a pacifist.

Hey, all! Sarela here, checking in!

1. Story Feat: I'm having a hard time finding a story feat that really fits Sarela's backstory. I'm still working on it, but if anyone has any suggestions, I'd be willing to listen.

2. Teamwork Feat: A lot of Teamwork Feats don't necessarily benefit casters, which is why Shake It Off is such a good idea. I like Allied Spellcaster and Shielded Caster, especially since everyone except Mithralline has some spellcasting ability. Any that boost saving throws would probably be good for all of us, though.

3. Hmmm...I think perhaps a former friend of her father's from the garrison there who's still alive - someone close enough she would have called him "Uncle". Are there any specific NPCs in the Adventure Path who'd fit that role, GM, or should I make one up?

4. Background Tie-Ins:

Sarela: You are slightly older than 30, Rose has known you nearly your entire life (well except when you were away). Your mother and her might have been the only full blooded elves in the town. They probably plotted the elven overthrow of the humans over herbal tea. Rose and you certainly share a love of gardening and nature.

Sarela's only 25, but she would absolutely remember "Auntie Rose", and would have been quite happy to see her still alive when she got back to Roslar's Coffer. Rose is probably the one who was most responsible for her early education.

Similar to Samalgee, we both appear to have been uprooted by Twisted Nail raids, but at different times. I think we may have known each other when we were very young (age 10 and under), but hadn't seen each other until Sarela returned to Roslar's Coffer after many years. It would be an interesting reunion, especially since they are both faithful of Saranrae now.

Sure thing. Old childhood friends who hadn't seen each other in a long time and reconnected upon Sarela's return to the coffer sounds like a great connection to me.

If Samalgee also loves gardening and also was taught by Rose, Samalgee would probably have been her friend, as well.

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RE: Arcane and Party Makeup

With how many healers we have, I'm going to have Sarela drop the Hedge Witch archetype and switch to a more arcane Patron. Neither the archetype nor the patron has any effect on the character until levels 4 and 2, respectively, and witches have Cure spells on their spell list, anyway. It would be interesting for her to think the patron was all about healing, only for her to discover her patron chose her for a completely different reason. After all, while SHE may think either Sarenrae or one of her servants has taught her magic, that doesn't mean it's true...

So since I was reminded about this in another game and we are just starting up. I have a Discord channel just as a secondary point of contact. I created it after the forum fail of last year where they were down forever so communication could still flow if that happens again.

If we want to utilize it as a backup for communication I setup a channel for this game. Here is the link if we are interested. When you join just say your character name and game you are in so I can set permissions appropriately.

I'm always in Discord, so it's easy way to tag me if you need something.

Tie-in with Laurel: As I understand, the last time the Twisted Nails hit Roslar's Coffer was 12 years ago so Sam is 22. I agree that Sam and Laurel have probably hit it off as fellow healers who are determined to be optimistic. We could come up with some shared times when we healed a bunch of folk to have specific stories to refer back to.

Yeah that sounds perfect. And we can make jibes at the other players as we tend to their wounds! "Oh yes of course you had to fight the second orc, we just love stitching you back together, don't we?" :)

Sam's pacifism: Don't judge a book by it's cover too quickly. Sam's a pacficist, alright. Quite strongly. She'll support her friends no matter what (unless they try to be downright evil) but will often ask that we seek a peaceful solution. She also will be pragmatic enough to buff and contribute in other ways. I'm leaving it as an open question whether or not the things she experiences in this adventure ever cause her to re-consider her pacifism and to what degree. If the majority of the party or the GM desires it, I can play another character entirely, some sort of front-liner. But as long as I'm playing Sam, she definitely has to start as a pacifist.

Having a preference for non-violence is not the same thing as pacifism. If it is just personal pacifism and you don't care what the party does, or if your pacifism only extends to people that reasonably seem like they wouldn't want to fight us in normal circumstances, that's fine, but arguing over the morality of killing the evil necromancer plaguing the town is only interesting the first few times.

This also extends to refusing to make the first blow. If we're raiding a demon camp and you insist on giving them the chance to surrender first, which would ruin our element of surprise and a massive tactical advantage, well I will likely ignore your character and promptly drop the biggest baddest most damaging spell I can right in the middle of them.

Perhaps I'm being too gun-shy because of past experiences I have had with "pacifist" characters. But I have never played with one that was more fun than they were frustrating.

I'm opening up gameplay for some pregame roleplay and allow you guys to get some interaction before the real fun begins. Please dot in and start to feel out your character a little bit. Don't worry about the crunch not being done yet for this part.

Sarela: Yes you were probably a few years ahead of Samalgee in school but we'd be aware of each other and have probably talked gardening. Maybe the town has an annual gardening competition we've competed in?

Aralah: Thanks! Will drop a line.

Laurel: Yes that kind of backstory tie-in sounds great.

Sam's not naive (well at least not extremely naive). She's just a firm believer in pretty extreme pacifism. She knows from past experience not to expect others to agree with her pacifism and she's generally not going to make a big stink about it. As a player, I'm a pretty firm believer in the truth that whatever my character likes/wants/believes has to be compatible with making the game work.

Teamwork feat: Given the nasty things likely to be thrown at us and our abundant ability to deal with hp damage, I think shake it off makes a lot of sense to protect us from nasty conditions.

The Madness Of Queen Rose wrote:

Here are the story feats that make the most sense, the first two are ones I would prefer because they have the most relevance to her background and generally provide better benefits.

Forgotten Past: Perhaps she's shut out the memories of why her father left because it was traumatic or perhaps her mother fiddled with her memories when she was young so she doesn't remember.

Glimpse Beyond: Fits with the madness angle of her ancestry and the fact that she talks with spirits all of the time.

I like them both. I love Glimpse beyond, but man that goal is pretty brutal. If you are up for the struggle with insanity, I say go for it. Otherwise, Forgotten Past is a solid choice.

Both work for me, I'll think about it for today and probably tomorrow and write up a little about it.

From a merely mechanics point of view, Forgotten past requires a miracle/wish level of spell to resolve the problem (or probably some very detailed side quest), that's actually a pretty tall order.

Glimpse requires something like being hit with a Symbol of Insanity, which is cured by Greater restoration, heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish. Or dying which is "cured" by raise dead.

Once I looked at it that way, both are pretty difficult to resolve. In the end, it will still be a character driven choice

My initial reaction is actually probably Glimpse, Forgotten's benefits are more easily used, Glimpse's less so. Forgotten has the problem of being a very common style story trope, whereas struggling with your own sanity with a big pay-off of a death scene or full descent into madness is not a common story-line.

Meta thinking about it, with Forgotten, potentially I get to find out about my long lost father and recover some memory of something horrible like that he killed a family member in front of me when I was three or my mother had to flee him as he was consumed by madness and wanted to sacrifice us. If it were a movie about my character it would be a long search with a big pay-off final scene, crying, emotions, and a fade to black. In a campaign, it would probably be something that would crop up occasionally with a final scene, but it feels less integrated, it's very concrete. It doesn't flow as well with a group centered campaign. Also, I think I've seen this movie :D

With Glimpse, especially since this is survival horror, this is a slowly creeping change for the character, I sprinkle the RP in through-out whatever we are going through. And the big goal of dying or going insane sounds pretty likely to happen :D It would confirm Rose's worst suspicions about herself - she really is mad like her father and the spirits she hears are just voices in her head - or they are a mixture of delusion and reality - or something else entirely. It's less concrete of a storyline like Forgotten, it's more internal and subjective. I've also seen this movie :D but I prefer psychological horror or reality questioning stories like that. It also spreads out the "me focus" during the campaign so I'm not running off to find out info or to have a big scene, it's almost entirely done "on camera" as it were. Granted that is removing some of the GM's agency in the process and you could go anywhere you wanted with it. Although running multiple tables, you might like the player driving more of the story aspect of this than you.

If I go with Glimpse, I'll probably want to switch around a bit of the character's crunch and explore possibilities of things like picking up sorcerer with a madness bloodline or heading to mystic theurge, or just staying with shaman all the way, but I'd like to explore possible options and make certain I can still be effective in the game, while staying within this broader storyline.

I'll stop now, probably too much "thinking out loud" for you all :D

I like thinking out loud. I have a hard time reading peoples minds in PbP :)

Go with Glimpse, it will be more fun!

I'm dropping the Hedge Witch archetype and I'm going with the Light Patron instead. It keeps the Sarenrae theme I was originally shooting for, and gives me some useful utility spells and ways to counter magical darkness.

I appreciate you talking this out with me Samalgee, I'm not trying to be combative or confrontational, but it is a concern that I would like to talk about.

Alright so I got a couple questions for you then, I would like your response to a few hypothetical situations:

1) A necromancer who has been plaguing the town with undead for weeks has finally been cornered by the party. It has been made abundantly clear he has no interest in surrendering. The fight is deadly enough that if our martials tried to do non-lethal damage it could cause a TPK. Would it be acceptable to kill him in the heat of battle?

2) We got the drop on some enemies who are pretty clearly evil (undead, demons, etc.), and we have to get past them one way or another. Is it ok to launch the first strike, i.e. take advantage of the surprise round? Does your answer change if they're not obviously evil, such as a bunch of thugs or guards?

3) A group of bandits attacks the party on the road. They seem more interested in stealing our wealth than killing us, but definitely don't have any qualms about cutting down anybody that gets in their way. Is defending ourselves with lethal force justified? Or would we have to use non-lethal, or do we have to simply let them take our stuff since that is the ending with the least violence?

~~~~~~~~~~~

Sarela, I think that's a good decision. Being able to handle magical darkness is never a bad ability to have.

Sarela, I think that's a good decision. Being able to handle magical darkness is never a bad ability to have.

Thanks. We honestly had so much healing that the Healing patron and the Hedge Witch archetype both felt excessive, and this way we get at least a little bit more arcane. It takes me to less of a support role, true, but we've got that covered in spades, I've still got the Fortune hex, and I'm still going to take the Healing hex and the Greater Healing hex.

EDIT: GM, what do you think of the Unforgotten story feat for Sarela? She technically never did see her father die, and his body could never have been found after the Orcs raided Roslar's Coffer. Is that something that you think would work for Sarela, or am I shoehorning it a bit?

Sure thing, Laurel. Doesn't hurt to know what you're getting into.

I think Sam's answer to all of these comes down to the definition of justified/ok/acceptable. I'll go in order:

1) No Sam doesn't think it's acceptable to kill him. But she isn't going to try to stop a party member from doing so because

A. She probably can't
and
B. She might have to use force or violence to do so anyway.

2) Again, Sam doesn't think it's ok. Even "evil" things can sometimes be reasoned with or avoided. But she's not going to yell out a warning to the bad guys since that could get her friends killed instead. Right now, Sam makes pretty much no distinction between undead and bandits but that might be something she quickly learns to understand.

3) Sam would say that lethal force isn't justified but again she's not going to throw a hissy fit or sabotage the party. She'll still cast bless and healing spells. But she would prefer and will advocate for talking to them, intimidating them, giving over our stuff, etc.

So those actions are "ok" in the sense that Sam won't physically try to stop them and I won't complain about them IC. But they're "not ok" in the sense that Sam doesn't believe it would be ok for her to do any of them.

OOC, I disagree pretty strongly with pacifism, especially to the extent Sam takes it. But I'm interested in RPing a character who is very devoted to the ideal of personal pacifism and has to struggle through that.

Laurel/Sam - I want you to know I’m tracking this conversation. As I am currently in a game right now where my characters actions IC caused some OOC grief, I’m overly sensitive to this topic. I’m staying out of your way in the hopes you can resolve this amiably. I appreciate you trying to work this out up front like responsible adults!

@GM - Well luckily if we can't handle it like adults I'll have the upper hand in the ensuing fistfight since she's a pacifist :P

Alright Sam, I would say my concern still stands but as long as your character isn't planning on throwing a fit when we get into a fight we can give it a shot. I suppose I can take this as an interesting roleplaying challenge, especially as a priest of Sarenrae who preaches diplomacy and peace and conversion from evil as a primary tactic, but ultimately accepts that some evil is beyond redemption and must be swiftly put down.

I've got high hopes, I hope you prove me wrong on pacifism :P

I will try to get an intro post tonight. As a general rule of thumb, I'm usually largely unavailable on weekends.

Thanks for changing things up some Sarela. I was aware you guys were a little heavy on the divine but had hoped you'd be able to work it out. As for taking Unforgotten, it could work, but I think
Aralah is taking that one and I like to use different ones if possible (though it is not required). Let me through the list and see if I can find an alternate I like. If not and you want to go with Unforgotten, we'll do that.

I know I shouldn't plop my two cents into the pacifist discussion, but I have the privilege of knowing two great pacifists and a bit about them may help. Perhaps I'm preaching to the choir.

My great uncle was a pacifist. He volunteered for the army in WWI. He refused to carry a gun, but worked as a medic to help save everyone else. He would run into no man's land to help drag people back, without protection and bullets flying all around, in possibly the most prone to die role in the military at the time. He's one of the bravest people I've ever known. He didn't force his conscience on anyone else and never tried to get them to stop. He realized what they were doing was necessary, but killing others was not something he could personally do. He helped those in need.

My ex-father in law grew up wanting to be a pilot. He went to the air force academy and became an excellent pilot. He was sent to Vietnam. All of the time he was studying to be a pilot he studied to be a cargo pilot. He didn't want to fly overhead and drop bombs on someone he didn't know, but he wanted to contribute and make certain his fellow soldiers were taken care of. He flew 1500 missions in a single year, a record at the time, averaging nearly 5 missions a day. He flew his plane out into the jungle, landing on small dirt strips while being shot at, dropping off weapons, ammo, food, and medical supplies while flying back the wounded. Sometimes he was the only person that survived on his plane due to the hail of bullets he often had to fly through. Did he stop? No, he just took off again. He became an air commando, the now defunct special forces of the air force. His job was to fly top secret missions into horrible places, do things his country would disavow if he was ever caught, and accomplish things no one else would. He didn't do it for glory, the cargo pilots are never the ones talked about, but at his funeral at the academy, the place was awash in two and three star generals who said he was perhaps the finest man they've ever known.

So, these are the pacifists I've known in my life. Both were soldiers. People who did not want to personally kill others but saw soldiers and friends who needed their help in some of the worst moments of their lives and they were willing to sacrifice their lives to help strangers.

Did they try to convert others around them? No.
Did they try to fight against what was happening? No.
Did they cause drama that made the lives of those around them worse? No.

The following may come off as harsh, but I sincerely do not mean to be harsh or mean. I can come off sounding intense at times, but please take it as just my opinion.

Even though this is a game, we are talking about characters often thrust into situations beyond their control. They deal with absolute good and evil, not the gray we deal with in the real world. If pacifists in the real world can do this, characters with even more clear cut distinctions of friend and foe should be able to do it with ease.

I also see part of the duty of the players is to help other players have a good time. Some roleplaying arguments are fine, but if someone wishes to derail everyone else including the DM by causing drama over something as BS as a character trait they chose, then they are selfish jerks and I say good riddance to them. (That's the harsh sounding bit :D

This is a game, we are here to have fun, characters should be designed with interesting quirks or attitudes but not with something that will be not fun for everyone else and are designed to bring them into constant conflict with others. We are building a team here and at some level everyone should be a team player for the benefit of everyone around the table.

I've run enough campaigns and played in many in nearly 30 years of gaming and I've seen good groups disintegrate because someone would design a character that ran contrary to everyone else and used it to make everyone's life miserable.

Now, if you want to design a pair of characters that enjoy constantly debating the right and wrong of what they do, that's actually very cool. But when the dice begin to roll, the egos should go away, and we should work together.

Again, not to be harsh or demanding, this is my philosophy and this looks like a really good group of people. This is how I plan to play my character, YMMV. And I'm probably preaching to the choir.

Those are my two cents (and a whole lot more :)

Wow, that's a wall of text - I need to get better at summarizing :D

You’re welcome, GM. I figure between Rose being a Lore Shaman with the Arcane Enlightenment hex, Samalgee’s revelation at level 3, and the witch spell list plus the light patron, we should have most of the necessary arcane spellcasting covered, with probably the exception of the flashy spells that go boom.

The three of us should probably do some OOC coordination so we don’t overlap too much, though.

Just to add my 2 cents from playing with both Sam and Laurel in other games. I honestly don't think there is going to be an issue here.

Also, @Rose That was actually a really great explanation so thanks for that.

On a separate note, could we get a map of the town? I wanted to get a better idea of the layout before making my initial post.

Thanks for sharing, Rose. That was a very worthwhile read.

Ok, Laurel. We'll make it work. Sam will discuss her beliefs about pacifism with whomever is interested in talking about them but she's not going to force that discussion on anyone.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Aralah. :)

@Aralah - Sure thing. Here's Roslar's Coffer.

I'm building the Roll 20 game still. Since I'm doing two of these I only want to build it once and then copy it, so the game isn't ready for you to join quite yet.

I'm up to speed with the thread but want all of our fellow players to get a chance to post before starting a back and forth.

So when it comes to bonus feats:

GM is Deny the Reaper ok for Laurel?

Everybody what do we want to do for teamwork feats? It seems the most interest was in shake it off, although I know that's more from a power standpoint than anything else.

My top selections would be (in alphabetical order):

Bonded Mind - Permanent Message between the group (this may make more sense later though after we've been through some stuff together)

Ferocious Loyalty - Attack bonus against foes threatening allies. (Think this would be good, but also may make more sense later on)

Passing Grade - Over heal can be passed to other adjacent party members. Makes our healing go that much further. (Everyone stand in a circle around the healer... :P)

Stealth Synergy - The group takes the best stealth roll and adds all modifiers, makes us all more stealthy.

Trade Initiative - Swap initiative with adjacent party members. Helps to make sure the people we want going first get to go first.

@Aralah - Sure thing. Here's Roslar's Coffer.

I'm building the Roll 20 game still. Since I'm doing two of these I only want to build it once and then copy it, so the game isn't ready for you to join quite yet.

Unless anyone else wants it, I'd like the little red house above and to the left of the orchard - it has a little green gardeny area around it. That'd be about right for my little cottage.

From what I understood only the list of teamwork feats in the original recruitment thread are available, which I linked and listed above.

Laurel would live in the monastery so he doesn't have his own house.

For teamwork feats, Aralah's list mimics my own view on them and in that order actually (wish there was a Perception version of Stealth Synergy). If we need to stick to the list Laurel pointed out, it looks like the highest one on both lists is Ferocious Loyalty.

I like that it doesn't require everyone to stand around as AoE bait.

GM is Deny the Reaper ok for Laurel?

Yes, looks good.

From what I understood only the list of teamwork feats in the original recruitment thread are available, which I linked and listed above.

This is correct. Your level 1 feat list is limited to pre-selected list available in the recruitment crunch.

Wops, my bad was just listing things I liked / thought made sense :D

With that in mind, I think Stealth Synergy would make the most sense initially (it's easy to tell other people how to be more quiet) but I like Ferocious Loyalty better (though I think that would make more sense after the group had already gelled a bit).

I wouldn't mind ferocious loyalty, I like the flavor as well.

Would the casters like to pick up something else? Since you don't tend to benefit much from attack bonuses.

I like the idea of lookout as sort of the counterpart of stealth synergy. Given the PCs here, it makes sense for us to be looking out for each other from the get go. Allied spellcaster is cool too but makes less sense to me from level 1.

Sorry for the silence yesterday! Between dog grooming, grocery shopping, and cleaning, the day disappeared real fast.

Definitely agree that Lookout would be useful for the casters (everybody, really). If we want to choose a feat that works for all of us, we should choose that or Stealth Synergy to start.

Getting over into Gameplay now.

Yeah lookout could work. Will wait for the others to respond and then make a straw poll for us to vote.

I would also be good with either lookout or allied spellcaster. I won't be particularly stealthy but if everybody else wants to pick up stealth synergy I'm fine with joining that.

Laurel has a flexible build that can play a number of roles.

A couple questions regarding the Sarenite religious building have come up. The name of this church was the Bastion of Light and here is some lore that all from that area would already know.

* * *

Roslar’s Coffer was once a quiet, remote village. The ancient church that stood just outside of town proper brought pride to the townsfolk. Children laughed and chased one another along the cobblestone roads while farmers took shade under the boughs of the trees.

Then the orcs came.

The church was set alight, children taken, farmers slain and their crops burned. The village would have been lost entirely were it not for the few brave warriors and clerics posted there. Though the orc threat was ultimately defeated, a monstrous creature known as a red reaver used the chaos to claim the old Sarenite temple and the surrounding area as its territory. The red reaver has been a black mark on the history of Lastwall ever since. Its arrival in Roslar’s Coffer prevented the villagers from taking the church and the surrounding area, while the reaver spends its time swiftly dispatching any who stray too close. In the years since the reaver’s arrival, Lastwall has sent several companies into the red reaver’s territory in the hopes of killing it or at least driving it off, but none have been successful, and with each passing year the creature seems to grow stronger.

It took a decade, but the Pathfinder Society eventually mounted a successful assault and dispatched the reaver. The townsfolk no longer lived in daily fear of the reaver and life in Roslar's Coffer slowly returned to normal once again. The Society still maintains a small presence in town as the help oversee the effort to finish reclaiming the church and bringing it back to its former glory.

The Bastion was an important military stronghold and religious ritual site. The histories mention powerful rites performed on fallen crusaders within the Bastion, and some say the Sarenite clerics found a way to cleanse undeath from a corrupted soldier. The Bastion of Light was also notable for its intricate stained-glass windows depicting Sarenrae and her avatars. When Roslar’s Coffer was invaded by orcs, the Bastion was burned but, much to the amazement of the villagers, it remained standing. Out of fear of retribution from Sarenrae, the orcs left the great windows intact, and on most days the rising sun brightly illuminates the interior.

The church served as a fortified stronghold during the early years of the Shining Crusade. Housing numerous Sarenite warrior priests and other heroes of the Shining Crusade, the church not only served as a staging ground for various military actions but also acted as a place of redemption, researching rituals and techniques to cleanse the souls of the warriors transformed against their will into undead monstrosities by the Whispering Tyrant and his servants.

Unfortunately, many of the details related to these rituals were lost as the clerics developing them were called to the front, never to return. In a blessed font within the temple, a helmet rests beneath the crystal waters. The helmet was originally placed there as part of a cleansing ritual, though exactly what was being cleansed remains unclear. Those who survived the orc raids on Roslar’s Coffer that remember the local legends tell different stories. Some say that the helmet belonged to a noble warrior who was transformed into a fearsome undead knight, with his helmet placed within the font after his defeat so that his soul could be fully cleansed and released to the afterlife his mortal deeds had earned. Others claim that the helmet is the source of the font’s blessing and that it was placed within the font by a righteous warrior who survived many battles against the Whispering Tyrant’s undead hordes due to the helm’s blessing. Magical divinations do little to clarify the truth of these stories, for the helm reveals no special magical properties when subjected to detect magic or similar effects, and more potent divinations such as legend lore reveal only the same conflicting stories surrounding the helm’s origins, assuming they reveal anything at all.

4707AR - Orc raiders from the Twisted Nail tribe overrun the small village of Roslar’s Coffer in southern Lastwall, displacing its residents.
4708AR - Roslar’s Coffer is reclaimed from the orcs, but in the interim, a creature called a red reaver has moved into the Sarenite cathedral just outside of town.
4718AR - Pathfinder Society agents slay the red reaver nesting outside Roslar’s Coffer in their quest to recover an artifact of the Shining Crusade.
4719AR - The current year.