Indded, sorry to see you go, Baragor. I enjoyed your contributions!
Kalum did pretty well not getting hit that fight.
Alright, first fight is over. Thoughts as to how the mechanics worked?
This one was largely designed to be a resource drainer. I think I messed up the ambush, so it was probably easier than it could have been.
Random thoughts
d20 is still swingy as ever.
Cantrips for casters seem to be a reliably better option than crossbow so Kith should still be somewhat useful after spells have been used up.
Three Action Economy seems pretty good
So far, so good. I'm not sure about the ambush, I'll have to dig some more on that.
I do like the 3 action econ. It feels like you have more flexibility in combat. I'll need a larger sample size.
I agree that cantrips seem to be great.
You all seem to have unique and interesting ways of interacting with the fight, which is also great.
3 action economy provides lots of options. I think Kalum was getting like 4-5 actions a round pretty consistently there.
I'm stepping aside while you all rp what your plan of action is from here.
Busy day for me today, probably won't be able to update until tomorrow. Give me a nature and/or survival role in the gameplay thread and we'll see how you do with the camels.
I'll take the highest and treat others as aids. Note that aids can result in critical failures, so you if you don't have a good modifier, it may not be worth it to roll.
I don't know the DC yet - I'm not in my office today and don't have the rules easily available.
It's my understanding that we all know each other prior to this adventure starting, so I wasn't going to delve too deeply into the 'who am I RP'.
Yep the setup is that everyone has known each other a little while, I imagine so that the players can get right into the playtest. That said, we can fluff things however you all want. Perhaps Zeva is a new companion?
Combat map is updated.
called away - sorry. I think Kalum's action will just be struggling (and failing) to get out.
Are other actions possible? Can he just walk out? Can he cast spells? Throw ropes?
Good questions! The playtest doesn't provide any other information other than what is under the spoiler. He can move 5' or try an athletics check DC 18 to move "up" one level (instead of sinking down). But Kalum is at the highest level that he can be at. So move 5' is probably the best action.
Other actions don't seem to be possible. I'd houserule things like casting spells are possible, but since this is a playtest we should probably stick with it as written.
Good questions! The playtest doesn't provide any other information other than what is under the spoiler. He can move 5' or try an athletics check DC 18 to move "up" one level (instead of sinking down). But Kalum is at the highest level that he can be at. So move 5' is probably the best action.
Other actions don't seem to be possible. I'd houserule things like casting spells are possible, but since this is a playtest we should probably stick with it as written.
I'll bot Kallum until you're back if we're ready to move on at that point.
Bumpity bump. PCs are up. I need reflex saves from everyone but Kallum.
Given he's not going to make those aths checks, the obvious answer is to step out?
Forgive me, guys; work blowing me up right now. I'll try to get something in today, but bot me as needed.
Work has been a bit exhausting on my side too, sprry for my part in the delay but catching up now.
Sick!
I hope to get us moving today, but I may just nap.
Ooof, I'm back at work and working through things from my absence. I'll get us going again tomorrow.
and appears as “X persistent [type] damage,” where the
“X” is the amount of damage dealt and “[type]” is the
damage type. While affected by persistent damage, at
the end of your turn you take the specified amount and
type of damage, after which you can attempt a DC 20
flat check to remove the persistent damage. You roll
the damage dice anew each time you take the persistent
damage. Immunities, resistances, and weaknesses all
apply to persistent damage. If an effect deals damage
immediately and also deals persistent damage, you don’t
take the persistent damage if you negate the other damage.
For example, an attack that deals slashing damage and
persistent bleed damage wouldn’t deal the persistent bleed
damage if you blocked all of the slashing damage.
You can be simultaneously affected by multiple
persistent damage conditions so long as they have different
damage types. If you would gain more than one persistent
damage condition with the same damage type, the higher
amount of damage overrides the lower amount. All
types of persistent damage occur at once, so if something
triggers when you take damage, it triggers only one time.
Persistent damage can have the bleed type, meaning it
affects only living creatures that need blood to survive.
Bleeding automatically ends if you’re healed to your
maximum Hit Points.
You or an ally can spend actions to help you recover
from persistent damage, such as casting healing spells or
using Medicine to Administer First Aid against bleeding,
dousing a flame, or washing off acid; successfully doing
so reduces the DC of that condition’s flat check to 15
and usually lets you immediately attempt an extra flat
check to end that persistent damage. The reduction to
the DC lasts until you remove the persistent damage or
gain another persistent damage condition with the same
damage type.
Kith can cast Mage Hand and grab onto Kalum's head. Would that keep Kalum from sinking further?
How about if Kith steps towards the quicksand and grabs Kalum's head himself?
What was the Reflex save for? Kith got a pretty good result I thought.
Kith passed the reflex save to avoid persistent damage.
I'm not happy with the quicksand hazard as written. There's no guidance on how to interact with the hazard other than a circular loop of Athletics checks and sinking. I suppose if Kallum/Caramel makes two athletics checks in one round, they could rise to waist level and move 5'. Since there's no guidance on how to interact with someone stuck in the hazard, I'm going to say yes for sure to grab Kallum's head since he's at the edge of the sand.
I'll look into mage hand as well when I have a moment this afternoon.
Mage hand is pretty weak so I think Kith will go over and grab Kalum which should hopefully give Kalum some help.
A flat DC 20 is flat-out ridiculous. You need to roll a 20 just to end the damage? Hopefully the durations are short or this will be a killer.
As far as the quicksand, I'd just go with common sense and what rolls they ask for. We kind of all know what you can and can't do in that hazard. For instance, I think Kith would be better served throwing a rope to Kallum. I don't think you could get close enough to grab him without going in yourself.
Problem with rope is that Kalum is *already* neck deep!
That doesn't mean he can't reach out to grab it. He's in quicksand, not encased in hardened concrete.
Movie quicksand is very different from real quicksand :). I'm not sure which one this module is emulating.
Oh, it is definitely movie quicksand.
But, I've been reading the boards and thinking about this hazard and I don't think it works as written. Kith can make an aid check to help Kallum with his role. DC is 17. If Kith or any others lower some rope to Kallum, it will give a +5 circumstance bonus to any checks.
Persistent damage is also a problem. There's no end to it, so one could feasibly die from some persistent damage 1 for example. However, one can also use an action to lower the DC to a 15. So it isn't a death sentence. Still, if you have it, I'd be using an action a turn to try and remove the condition.
I'm not sure yet if one can roll more than one check by using more than one action/round.
But I think if Kith fumbles the aid then Kalum wiill sink even faster right?
So it seems like Kith will be stepping towards Kalum and throwing him a rope. He has one!
You can fail an aid but there's no rule in the books about how deep the sand is, after submerging. I'm going with three levels: waist, neck, submerged. If Kallum fails the athletics check he'll be submerged anyways, so there's nothing to lose by trying.
But a rope is good, regardless. Kallum can get his arms above the sand level even as he's sinking. Hit a TAC of 10 to find his space.
Drawing the rope from the sack is an action. Throwing a rope is an action, How many actions is Aid?
Should have taken an action to lower the DC then... drat
We can retcon it. Kallum is up!
It's still a flat DC 15 check. Only a 25% success rate. At higher levels, 1 point of persistent damage is no big deal because you can keep rolling until you get that 15, but at 1st level?
Yeah, I agree it is a bit much for a lower-level party. I think these flat checks should be scaled to the challenge.
Gameplay post incoming.
You can hold your breath for a number of actions equal
to your Constitution score, or double your Constitution
score if you use the Breathe Deep action (see page 309)
before entering the airless environment. Each action
that passes during your turn costs you 1 action worth
of air, even if you do nothing with that action. Creatures
that have fewer than 3 actions still lose a minimum of 3
actions’ worth of air each turn. Each time you take an
attack or manipulate action, you lose 2 actions’ worth of
air instead of 1. You also lose 2 actions’ worth of air each
time you get hit by an attack. Verbal actions cost you all
your remaining air.
When you run out of air, you fall unconscious and
start suffocating. While suffocating, you can’t recover
from being unconscious and you must attempt a DC
20 Fortitude save at the end of each of your turns. On a
failure, you take 1d10 damage, and on a critical failure
you die. On each check after the first, the DC increases by
5 and the damage by 1d10. These increases are cumulative.
Once your access to air is restored, you stop suffocating
and are no longer unconscious (unless you took enough
damage from suffocation to reach 0 Hit Points, in which
case you return to 1 HP and are unconscious).
Vanedar: I think it is one of those things were persistent damage at low levels is rare. There's a feat that lets a class do a single point of persistent fire damage in a rare circumstance.
I had a game with a first level PC with that, and on NPCs it was largely irrelevant; once they'd taken the persistent, they rarely lasted more than a few rounds anyway.
The issue is with PCs, I think.
I do wonder if others can take the check? I think some of these had end conditions as well.
I'm not seeing any end conditions in the Bestiary entry, nor in the general rulebook.
I'll need a survival role to locate the camels. I figured the camels would flee to safety and then take actions to stop the persistent damage, so they'll be locatable with a DC 12 check +2 per camel, with two hours of searching. Failure will result in additional delays.
Thoughts on this past fight? The point of this encounter was to 1) serve as a resource-eater, and 2) test out a hazard that isn't a trap.
They need to work on the DCs I think. Aid fumbles make it less likely for someone untrained to try and help out which I don't think is a good thing. I think it ate into our health pretty well.
By the way, how is the group's healing?
The quicksand was a good idea, but terrible implementation.
If they're going to invent new mechanics, they need to very clearly state how they work.
This would be better by saying "as per grapple" or "as per entangle" or even some combination of both.
As written a flying character (magically flying) couldn't get out. Or could they? Who knows?
I ran this part of the adventure with my group. A melee monk fell in and it was basically just terrain - he was out pretty much straight away.
Resources eaten, check.
The DCs remind me of advanced D&D when something like save vs death needed a 17. It feels high but I get the point. I could get used to it, especially as status effects can be overcome with that third action.
I have to read up on the hazard to say more. I can't help but think we've missed something on both the hazard and the persistent damage.
Especially with regard to skills or the like.
Hi All,
Sorry I've been absent, had a pet die at the end of last week and then a job interview yesterday, so life's been pretty hectic. I'll get caught up now...
Since no one rolled a survival check I'm assuming we're moving on sans camels then.
Harakani, when you ran the ankheg/quicksand encounter, did you do anything differently regarding flat rolls or how the encounter operated?
We had five players, so I put a zombie (a previous victim) in the quicksand so the difficulty level stayed the same.
One of my players was a druid with a vine strike power I allowed him to use as a rope. Honestly, the use of a rope is so obvious from the trope I think there should have been rules for it.
The PCs were an all goblin party that advanced using stealth. They spotted the mound, and knew what it was. The monk advanced to get it to come out so the ranged characters could kill it with readied actions. This was very successful. Two stealthed rogues and a ranger do a lot of damage, as it happens. The only character in range was the monk, who discovered the quicksand by walking into it, so I had it close on a single character.
I only allowed a single action per turn, with aids. Monks are pretty good at athletics, though, and he was out so fast the zombie didn't get him.
They then took the zombie apart when it emerged.
Board ate my post. Try again, but shorter.
My group was an all-goblin group. They massacred the Ankheg (which they saw, knowledged and hid from). Their issue was getting it to emerge so they could get their readied sneak actions.
The monk advanced to do that, but stepped in the quicksand.
The party 'cleric' was a druid with a vine entangle, I allowed him to use that as a rope, which allowed aid. Monks are pretty good at athletics, and the monk was out very quickly.
When the Ankheg emerged (waiting for the monk to hit the quicksand) the targets were scattered enough acid was a terrible choice. It charge attacked the monk, who dodged despite quicksand, and then it died to the terrifying power of twin goblin rogues.
Thanks for the information on how you ran the encounter, Kalum!
I thought about only allowing one action per turn, but it seemed that at best there would be an endless loop of rise one step, get pulled down one step, rise one step, get pulled down one step...
Regarding this encounter, there's no reason to think that you've been spotted. And there's nothing to indicate that anyone is at the camp at the moment.
If you want Zeva to scout, I'll need a stealth roll.
I'd like to try out battle medic and the wand of heal.
Can't we just bypass them and go on to our destination, or are they right in the way?
Bypassing them is an option. They are at the only point in the river that you can see that is easily fordable, however. So it will add time to your journey.
Kith is good with surprise attacking or going around. Can they tell how much of a detour it would be or is that a Survival check?
Probably a survival check to get an estimate, but it is also a bit of a crapshoot.
The river in general is quick moving and deep enough that swim checks would be needed, leading to potential disaster. It is shallower and slower here.