This is the character I had settled on for this thread. Whether I play this character or not is up for negotiation and if it doesn't work out I could switch to something else.
** spoiler omitted **
If this character is too weird I don't mind switching to something else.
I wonder if you can talk to me about the traits you chose as to how they tie into your backstory.
I personally don't see the problem with a 2nd level bard spell (suggestion) but I get the idea you like the changes better?
Read your background and I don't see anything relating specifically to the fey or how you would be a noble scion of war (though this is substantiatable) Lets talk about tweaking your backstory -- how are the fey involved? How are you a manifestation of war and leadership given your strange heritage?
The Noble Scion of War one ought to be obvious.
As a shabti, Azul is a spiritual "copy" of his maker. His maker Aclmenio Saro was a Taldan noble who became a king and maintained that kindom through a great deal of warfare.
The Fey Foundling one is a bit more tenuous, but Azul came to the material plane via the First World, and was probably in the First World longer than he has been in the material plane (which is relatively recent, a few months at most).
I wonder if you can talk to me about the traits you chose as to how they tie into your backstory.
Seeker - because he is naturally curious. He could have remained in Axis but instead he chose to explore other planes, and was drawn to the plane where he was made.
Fate's Favored - because he has a special "destiny." Obviously that destiny being in the future I can't get more specific. But his connection to Alcmenio Saro has created a situation where Alcmenio Saro gets a kind of "second chance" at life, a chance to do things better than the first time.
Naive - because he is new to the material plane, and the only humans he really knows were the ones that made it to Axis in the afterlife and were very lawful.
Sword Scion - I had arranged with the previous GM to take the Sword Scion campaign trait but have it apply to Falcata rather than Aldori Dueling Sword because it is the closest any of the campaign traits come to applying to Azul. Azul's STR will probably end up being 14 so this would bring his attack from +2 to +3. I don't want Azul to be a lame duck in combat. If you aren't requiring us to take a campaign trait as one of our traits though then this is less important, but it would still be nice.
I personally don't see the problem with a 2nd level bard spell (suggestion) but I get the idea you like the changes better?
As 6-level casters bards get a lot of enchantment spells earlier than most classes, since they get spells later. Suggestion is a 3rd level wizard/sorcerer spell and its race points are based on that.
But I don't like the idea of controlling people's minds which seems evil or at least chaotic.
Yes, I do like the alternatives I proposed. The Falcata proficiency is the only way the character could get an ability to use the Rondelero style. Simple weapons are really boring and I'd want to use something cool. It also seems to me that the "past life knowledge" ought to extend to things other than just knowledge skills.
Please don't assume what it obvious to you is obvious to all, we all have different talents and I may not be as observant as you in a particular medium.
I'll approve of your changes, but I am still on the fence about fey foundling, even though I'll allow it.
Now tell me how do you think you fit in with the government of the kingdom to come? What kind of kingdom do you wish it could be?
(I actually ask this of everyone, I'm hoping by the end of my school-year we'll be kicking into this overdrive!)
I'll approve of your changes, but I am still on the fence about fey foundling, even though I'll allow it.
Well, I can only take one out of the two feats anyway, since both have to be taken at 1st level. So if you are ok with Noble Scion but not Fey Foundling then I don't have to choose between them. :)
Now tell me how do you think you fit in with the government of the kingdom to come? What kind of kingdom do you wish it could be?
(I actually ask this of everyone, I'm hoping by the end of my school-year we'll be kicking into this overdrive!)
Azul would work in any of the charisma roles, but particularly: Ruler, Grand Diplomat, or Counselor.
I'll approve of your changes, but I am still on the fence about fey foundling, even though I'll allow it.Well, I can only take one out of the two feats anyway, since both have to be taken at 1st level. So if you are ok with Noble Scion but not Fey Foundling then I don't have to choose between them. :)
Now tell me how do you think you fit in with the government of the kingdom to come? What kind of kingdom do you wish it could be?
(I actually ask this of everyone, I'm hoping by the end of my school-year we'll be kicking into this overdrive!)
Azul would work in any of the charisma roles, but particularly: Ruler, Grand Diplomat, or Counselor.
It would be interesting to try and get the populace to accept rulership by a non-living construct. We'll see... you may encounter some prejudice, then again, maybe not.
It would be interesting to try and get the populace to accept rulership by a non-living construct. We'll see... you may encounter some prejudice, then again, maybe not.
FYI In the process of animating the shabti they do become living, breathing creatures. They need to eat and sleep and breathe like anyone else. They are considered native outsiders (I'm guessing this is because they exist to be sent to the outer planes in the place of the one who created them). So even though they are originally built from inanimate materials they are not constructs.
Queen Elizabeth I learned that there was no profit in trying to appear "ordinary." She cultivated an aura of divinity in order to foster a sense of awe in her subjects, and this involved making herself seem alien and untouchable. It was effective as a symbol of rule rather than a person.
Azul would certainly be able to pull that kind of thing off.
Sad face, I lost this thread and just found it!
It looks like we have a...
Thundercaller Bard
Hexcrafter Magus
Dex based Cavalier (Is that right?)
Oracle
Did I miss someone? Did I make a mistake? Looking like the front is a bit light, is that a fair assessment? As far as covering basic party needs, is there anything people really want to see? I can't make any promises, but I can try to cover what bases are left!
For clarity: GM, when you say basic class/race do you just mean the core classes and races?
basic = core
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@GM: finally had a chance to put up a brief background and finish the build. Will finish equipment asap. Let me know if you have any questions or comments
The frontline isn't as bare as I initially perceived. Unless someone thinks it is a terrible idea, I'd like to propose this build:
Half-Elf River Rat Bandit Rogue (Unchained)
Traits - Pioneer (Perception), Poverty Stricken
STR: 10 DEX: 18 CON: 14 INT: 14 WIS: 14 CHA: 10
FCB - Skill points 1-4, 1/6 of a rogue talent 5+
Skills (10)
Acrobatics 8
Climb 4
Disable Device 8
Escape Artist 8
Perception 12
Religion 3
Sense Motive 6
Stealth 8
Survival 7
Swim 6
Background Skills
Sleight of Hand 8
Linguistics 6
Feats/Rogue Talents
1 Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (Perception)
2 Weapon Training (Dagger)
3 Deific Obedience (Pharasma)
4 Surprise Attack
5 Quickdraw
6 Combat Trick (Piranha Strike)
7 TWF
8 Slow Reactions
9 Iron Will
10 Double Debilitation, Opportunist
Would be eager to work with the other combatants in a fight and provide several of the more practical skills. The player's guide says there won't be too many traps in the AP, so I traded out trapfinding for the river rat archetype which might help with some of the wilderness related issues we may run into.
GM, does an unchained rogue count towards a third trait?
Yes this character is a dex based cavalier. I am not a tank with a massive AC but I can deal a pretty good amount of damage and avoid being hit. So With him, the Magus and river rat...I think we have the front line covered.
So we just need to see what the chess is going to play.
unchained rogue is not a core class, but I can see your wanting to verify.
Let me know what roles each character is interested in taking, and how many people want to be ruler -- and how the party plans to negotiate who will end up in charge.
I'd also like an idea of the kind of kingdom each player envisions running, so that a shared vision can become manifest.
The frontline isn't as bare as I initially perceived. Unless someone thinks it is a terrible idea, I'd like to propose this build:
Half-Elf River Rat Bandit Rogue (Unchained)
Traits - Pioneer (Perception), Poverty Stricken
STR: 10 DEX: 18 CON: 14 INT: 14 WIS: 14 CHA: 10FCB - Skill points 1-4, 1/6 of a rogue talent 5+
Skills (10)
Acrobatics 8
Climb 4
Disable Device 8
Escape Artist 8
Perception 12
Religion 3
Sense Motive 6
Stealth 8
Survival 7
Swim 6Background Skills
Sleight of Hand 8
Linguistics 6Feats/Rogue Talents
1 Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (Perception)
2 Weapon Training (Dagger)
3 Deific Obedience (Pharasma)
4 Surprise Attack
5 Quickdraw
6 Combat Trick (Piranha Strike)
7 TWF
8 Slow Reactions
9 Iron Will
10 Double Debilitation, OpportunistWould be eager to work with the other combatants in a fight and provide several of the more practical skills. The player's guide says there won't be too many traps in the AP, so I traded out trapfinding for the river rat archetype which might help with some of the wilderness related issues we may run into.
GM, does an unchained rogue count towards a third trait?
How many feats is this guy supposedly starting with?
How many feats is this guy supposedly starting with?
I believe the numbers indicate what level he gets those abilities.
Max is definitely not a ruler. Magister, spymaster, treasurer... I'm not sure what bonuses come from each of these. Is there a document that discusses what the roles do?
He starts off with two feats: Improved Initiative and Skill Focus (Perception). The first comes from his first Hit Die, the second comes from the Adaptability Half-Elf racial trait.
Peet is correct, the numbers that run down the left hand side is the level I will take the feat or rogue talent.
I also realized now that the FCB skill point hasn't been factored into his current skills. Not a huge deal, just making a note of it.
As far as kingdom roles, whatever can be based on dex would be great! I will echo the request for a summary document on the roles. I have no desire to be the ruler.
My character would want a kingdom that helps poor people to some extent. His backstory is going to include struggling with poverty and the effect it has had on his family, so creating a kingdom where people don't have to go through what he has (or at least takes steps to make it less common) is what he would strive for.
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I am going to assume we are using the Ultimate Campaign rules.
While there may be some RP issues the main thing is that the kingdom has three different scores (Economy, Loyalty, and Stability) and each role adds a bonus to one or more scores based on the character's ability scores. There are also penalties for not filling a particular role, and some roles cause unrest if they are not filled, it is really critical that those particular roles be filled.
After ruler the order in the book is alphabetical but I prefer to group the roles by which score they affect.
Roles with an asterisk (*) cause unrest if they are not filled.
Variable Roles:
Ruler* (CHA) - Ruler gets to choose which score his bonus affects. As the kingdom grows it affects multiple scores.
Spymaster* (DEX or INT) - you get to choose which score your bonus effects and can change it every month
Economy Roles:
Magister (CHA or INT)
Marshal (DEX or WIS)
Treasurer* (INT or WIS)
Loyalty Roles:
Councilor* (CHA or WIS)
Royal Enforcer (DEX or WIS)
Warden (CON or WIS)
Stability Roles:
General (CHA or STR)
Grand Diplomat (CHA or INT)
High Priest* (CHA or WIS)
Probably Unnecessary Roles:
Consort (CHA)
Heir (CHA)
Viceroy (INT or WIS) - it's possible that the ruler will start off as a Viceroy if we count as a vassal state to Brevoy.
Thanks peet!
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Three of us are Cha/Dex builds, One is a Dex build, and one is an Int/Str build.
Ilamin would like to see a raising of perhaps some of the other populous to the rank of nobility like the ruling families of Brevoy. While most have heavy ties with various races, they are a bit heavily human leaning.
Making a nation to stand beside Brevoy that truly encompasses and honors equality between the races would be what he is looking for as a ruler. It probably wouldn't hurt either to be reasonable and responsible on our encroachment of nature.
Ilamin's preferred roles: Ruler, Councilor, Spymaster.
I will post tonight
looks like treasurer is a key position and based on INT. I can do that and switch up as needed
This character was build and designed for the role of ruler. His background was created around that goal.
As for the Kingdom...well his background would place that very close to Ilamins view of things. The mercenaries that follow him (or will when I take Leadership feat) are a mix of different races/ cultures. I would want to see something like that in the kingdom as well. I see the kingdom as having your different class/status but it is not only about your "noble blood" It is more about what "you" do and being held accountable for your actions and not getting to do anything you want with out repercussions simply because of your last name.
I'm already in the process of reading cover to cover the first chapter of the adventure path.
This should be fun!
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A few more things about the Kingdom Roles:
A while back I did a solo playtest of the kingdom rules to get a feel for how they worked. And I made some observations.
Of the three kingdom scores, Stability is the most important. Every game turn (one month) you must make a stability check. Failure results in unrest, and unrest is bad. Unrest applies a penalty to ALL kingdom checks, which makes it harder to get rid of unrest. It is possible for unrest to spiral out of control and wreck your kingdom. But it's worth noting that once you get Stability a few points above your Kingdom DC (for insurance) you really don't need to add any more.
Economy is the next most important score. You make an economy check every turn to raise taxes and revenue for your kingdom. And since the system mainly works by spending your treasure to buy things, this is pretty important. But the result of a low economy roll is just less money, so while that's a pain it doesn't kill your kingdom, just slows it down. Worth mentioning though that unlike the other scores, you can never have too much Economy. Every 3 points translates to another BP per turn.
You don't have to make a Loyalty check every turn so Loyalty is the least important. However, you can't afford to dump it... the reason is that there are random events and some of these force Loyalty checks. And there are some events that create an ongoing problem that can spiral out of control. So you can't let Loyalty fall too low. The other thing about Loyalty is that it is harder to buy than economy and stability. There are less things that grant Loyalty so you have to take them when you can.
The DC of kingdom checks is based on the size of the kingdom. So it is relevant that at the beginning you should not expand too fast. If you do expand too quickly then the DC of the checks can get too difficult and you will be failing all the time.
Ideally you want to get to the point where you fail a check on a roll of 1 only and then pump economy as high as possible. Events will still take bites out of you but it will be easier to bounce back.
How does all of that translate to the roles our characters will be trying to establish?
Also, my character, based on his dex focus, would be interested in the Spymaster, Marshal, or Royal Enforcer positions. The Marshal would fit his fluff the best and would be my top choice.
Three of us are Cha/Dex builds, One is a Dex build, and one is an Int/Str build.
Actually, FYI Azul will be mainly a CHA build with STR and INT and CON all secondary. His DEX will be terrible. I would like STR to be better but since he is also meant to be a knowledge character, his INT had to be good.
At the start he will save his magic mostly for healing and will engage in melee. First-level casters can't afford to cast spells every round. He won't be the top tank or striker but he will be decent at it, and able to take lots of punishment.
Later on he will be more of a back-row caster but he is not afraid to get into the thick of things when needed.
This character was build and designed for the role of ruler. His background was created around that goal.
Christian:
It looks like your primary score is going to be DEX so mechanically Christian would be better suited to Spymaster, Marshal, or Royal Enforcer.
I looked over your background... it is long and hard to read, so I skimmed over some bits. But I see nothing there that screams "King" to me... certainly no more than any other character here. Though the end bit does suggest that Christian might make a good General, since he led a mercenary company.
Re: The "Type" of kingdom:
Obviously Azul would want non-humans to be welcome in the kingdom, since he is not human.
The AP assumes that most of the settlers will be humans and from Bevoy. Most of the non-human settlers will also be from Brevoy. Brevoy has plenty of dwarves, elves, halflings, and gnomes, so most of the core races are represented.
The nearby River Kingdoms and Numeria are not much different, but Iobaria has a lot of weirder animal-themed races.
The question you would need to ask though is: would you want to allow everyone in? What about races that are normally evil, such as orcs and goblins?
How does all of that translate to the roles our characters will be trying to establish?
The two roles where you get a "choice" of kingdom scores are Ruler and Spymaster.
Normally I would say that the Ruler should put his starting bonus in Stability. Once the kingdom reaches a size of 26 (that's the total of town districts and hexes, so that will take quite a while), he gets to apply his bonus to a second score. Then once you get to a size of 101 (which might never happen) you can apply it to a third score.
The Spymaster gets to switch his bonus to a different score each turn. Normally I'd have him put it on Economy when things are good, but then switch it to Stability or Loyalty when things are rocky (usually because of events).
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To a point, I agree we probably shouldn't be fully discussing the leadership roles. It is months away in game at a good pace and some of us may fall out by then or possible character deaths. (It can definitely happen.) I prefer not to get a GM Fiat to keep playing a character at lower levels but that's purely my preference.
But it still never hurts to understand what each player specifically wants and we can adjust as things fall in line via Roleplay decisions or life happenings.
Peet, do you have a preference for your role?
Ilamin like I said would prefer Ruler, then Councilor (He prefers to work with his own people than that off the other nations type.) then Spymaster.
Christian has stated foremost he is vying for the role of Ruler
Gummy wants Marshal, then Spymaster or Royal Enforcer.
Maximillion has said Treasurer
I agree, I think this is important to discuss now. It is much easier to tweak a character for a certain role now than to have an awkward RP turn around on their stance or have major disagreements on the roles/expectations for our kingdom.
That awkward moment when you are agreeing with a deleted post ;)
EDIT: Nothing has to be set in stone, but some basic discussion like we are having now is super useful IMO.
I thought I double-posted. Sorry bear!
Peet, do you have a preference for your role?
As I have already said, Azul would prefer to be either Ruler, Grand Diplomat, or Councilor, in that order. But I'm not going to ragequit if I don't get what I want.
The weird part is that while Warden and Marshal are both concerned with law enforcement, none of the roles act as a supervisor to the court justice system as a whole, like a Lord Chancellor or Justiciar. If there was a role like that Azul would probably be good at that if CHA was the a relevant score; he has no law training but he is definitely lawful.
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Why can we not create that post in place of or in addition to Warden/Marshal. We have not even begun nor do we know of any kingdom to be created yet. So we could adjust things as we the players see our kingdom heading.
None of our characters are destined to be anything at 1st and 2nd levels. We all have our desired direction we see for our characters and it is not always seen by others what we have planed for the advancement of our individual characters. We might not even be alive or it could be that the game has progressed in such a way that our characters are heading in a different path than we original intended. I agree with peet that none of us scream anything right now. I have stated that I was interested in ruler and that is how I built this character. Yes it is possible for my character to be a general but I did not see that happening as I had planned on a cohort to take that position if it was not taken. I planned on the Leadership feat and many other things but they are just how I hope things to progress. I do not know if they will go that way or not. We do have our ideas of what we envision the characters to be.
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K, perhaps this was just partial reading into by my part but the way you had worded it early about being made and the backstory pointing to Ruler, I thought that you were possibly set in stone.
I think with the group having a pretty...NG? idea of their ambitions towards what they want the kingdom to possibly be in the long term then whoever becomes king shouldn't be a problem.
I'm glad we were asked about what our character may want of a kingdom was a good question.
I need to double check my stuff tomorrow and see to it that it's adjusted to the new stuff. (I think I don't have anything really to adjust other then I might need to adjust some two skills to Performance skills for the long term benefits)
I am thinking I don't mind if we start a little earlier once everyone's characters are done. I'm more than halfway done reading the entire module and I am sure I can stay ahead of the party reading at the pace I am. Let me know what you guys think about starting sooner rather than later.
after wednesday, my schedule becomes pretty open to start whenever
I am good for now but there will be a times in the summer where I will not be able to post for sometimes. One will be when I am in another country with no international plan. So not phone for me...lol
I will let everyone know well in advance.
I can be good by Wednesday! I'll write up a backstory today and make the character's alias as well.
EDIT:
GM, should we be purchasing/tracking rations, buying a bedroll, etc?
Also, do we want to have a conversation about loot now or later?
AP question: are we funding the Kingdom out of our own pockets or is there a separate system for that? I'm playing through Skull and Shackles right now and the AP makes it clear that there are two separate pools (Plunder vs PC stuff) as well as what the expectation is as far as where the funds/resources for each comes from.
There is normally a separate pool of build points, but money is convertible back and forth. However, pulling cash out of the kingdom's coffers for personal use causes unrest.
The initial build points are provided as "seed money" by the colony's sponsors. After that BPs are earned through taxation, though periodically quests can give BP rewards instead of regular loot.
I have actually heard comments that loot is relatively scarce at higher levels and I'm not sure if that's true but if it is I suspect the idea was that the party would be taking a "salary" from the kingdom and dealing with the unrest this causes within the system.
Why can we not create that post in place of or in addition to Warden/Marshal.
The GM would have to be okay with houseruling a new kingdom role, but if he is cool with that then why not?
I'm fine with expanding the responsibilities of the marshal to oversee the court system and changing his title to Justicar or Court Chancellor.
Hey guys! Chess/adsapiens here, finally back with my character. I'm working on the backstory, but I wanted to present you Dommer Bouldercrush, Stonelord Paladin of Torag. Grumpy and mean as they come from the Golushkin Mountains!
In terms of roles, I imagine him as General or Warden.
Level 1 will be the starting level... Max level/xp for the chapter will be 1 xp point shy of level 4.
Hopefully everyone will start at level 4 for chapter 2... depending on how skilled/powerful the party functions, i may throw more at it than the adventure path calls for.
Also, I mentioned before characters start with MAX gold by class, but since large amounts of the adventure take place outdoors -- be prepared with the GEAR to survive outdoors and camp reasonably well or starvation and disease will become an issue. :D
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Kk, would anyone else be willing to buy the Campsite Kit? I wasn't gonna be able to lug it and it puts me over my cash limit. It's 80lbs and costs 12 gold and honestly is good gear for the price.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/goods-and-services/tools-kits/#TOC-Kit-C ampsite
Updated crunch in profile.
Because of distances involved -- people should probably have horses!
Because of distances involved -- people should probably have horses!
For the record, there are two advantages to having horses in this AP.
1. Horses move faster and so exploration and travel take less time.
2. Horses allow more gear to be carried.
In my experience, neither issue is especially important. A mule can carry a ton of extra stuff for only 8 gp. And the amount of time it takes to move from place to place doesn't necessarily matter that much; there's no deadline. Furthermore, horses are a type of treasure commonly obtained from bad guys, and they are also a type of equipment that monsters in the wild like to eat, so after a little while you need to spend resources trying to protect them.
If you are chasing enemies overland then you would want horses, but otherwise they can be a liability as much as an asset.