Feel free to chat about things here. I'm asking my current players to confine themselves to this thread, in the interest of keeping the recruitment thread clear.
Bonus points to whoever can correctly identify the source of this line without looking it up.
"I was attacked by a coked up w**** and a f***ing crazy dentist."
Checking in.
For people considering this campaign be prepared to debate ideas in character as we are slowly building a new country one farm/ building at a time. We have previously had multi-page debates on topics such as crime and punishment or how to govern a new country. What your character believes matters, your personal real life opinions less so.
Also skills are super, super important in this campaign, unless you have a really good reason not to, I highly recommend your NPC class level be expert, especially if your class gives less than 6 skill points/ level. I have used profession (miner) several times, heal almost daily with my secondary PC, who seems to have become town doctor despite being a cleric who channels negative energy.
And when GM nerk says he cares more about your character than your crunch believe him. Our initial party had 2 human rangers and 2 dwarf clerics. All of whom had different feels to their "twin". Vallen is very much a skill based cleric, and a very typical dwarven cleric, whereas Kal'Tos is a battle cleric, a melee fighter who can navigate the wild on par with a ranger and gets restless if he stays in town for more than a couple days.
How are we supposed to tell everyone we're slowly starving to death and make food-related jokes all the way over here?
Do you think if we shout it will make it to the recruitment thread?
HEY SPEND ALL OF YOUR STARTING CASH ON TRAIL RATIONS FOR THE LOVE OF TORAG HELP US
I kid. This campaign has been an exciting and unique survival journey, and the world Nerk has been building is fascinating and rich. We have barely scratched the surface and honestly I fear what we are going to find in this world, because we're going to have to be the ones to stop it.
When there is significant interest I will put together a little timeline of the adventure so far.
To those interested in applying, I will take what I said from the last recruitment-
Advice/info
*Prepare your character as if you will not come in contact with civilization again for a long time. You will only have what you bring with you. We really regret not bringing shovels. We have constructed a forge and the resident dwarves are banging away at making equipment, but there are only so many hours in the day. I am building Vallen to be our primary weapons/armor equipment producer and he will be taking magic item creation feats, but this is a long way off.
*Food is scare and currently our main settlement is on half-rations, with the exception we just killed a dire boar and are holding a feast. Skilled characters are going to get some extra mileage, hell even Craft (Baskets) could be useful right now. If your character was a brewer or baker, give them some ranks in those professions/crafts. You'd be surprised how many mundane things people need and how much they appreciate it. Leatherworking, glassblowing, chefs, we'll take it.
*There is a ton of work to do, we are literally building a town from the ground up. We keep track of everything in Google Spreadsheets. Yes this game requires a 10-tab spreadsheet to properly comprehend. Organizational skills are a plus.
-- I'm going to re-iterate what Nerk said in the recruitment thread.
Nerk, and ourselves, are looking for not so much party balance but someone who is going to have fun playing their character. We all have "that character" floating around in our mind and are dying to play it- that's what we want. (You may literally be dying though. Seriously we're really hungry.)
--We have no pack animals or mounts until we find some in the wild and tame them. Just a warning if you are a cavalier or someone focused on mounted combat you may have to wait a while to get our hands on a mount.
*All of us are heavy roleplayers, and our characters knowledge, mannerisms, and feelings drive our actions. We will often do things that out of character we know is sub-optimal but it is what our characters would do. Be prepared to discuss ethics from your character's point of view, we often have those conversations. This is why your character's personality and backstory is important.
--Here's a great example of the things we talk about: A horde of cannibalistic humanoid children are rushing towards you in an attempt to defend their home after you killed all of their hyper-aggressive warrior parents who slaughtered and turned your friends into jerky- what does your character do and why? This is a real situation we had to deal with and it sparked a huge discussion.
Intercepting some questions
*We post multiple times a day, the actual amount fluctuates however. Nerk usually makes a significant gameplay post 1-2 times a day. Players typically post 2-3 gameplay posts a day and we post a ton in our discussion thread.
*Combat maps are either described or made in the Googledocs Spreadsheet. Surprisingly effective and often colorful.
*If you look at our campaign, you will see we have two characters each. The lower level characters are our cohorts, which we call 2PCs. They are unrelated to our main characters and allow us to have two group operating simultaneously, typically an exploration party and a town party.
Bonus:
None of us could figure out the bonus question the first time Nerk asked, so help us out here...
Statement the First: Oh my god, skills. I originally applied to this game as a Paladin with 10 Int, and that would not have been a fun time. 4+Int skill points will go a long way to helping you feel like you're useful most of the time (because skill checks come up waaaaay more frequently than combat).
Also, Linguistics! We're interacting with many races that don't speak the usual dialects of Golarion languages. The ability to actually talk to these folks would be a huge boon, and will save us from goofy broken english conversations that are so common!
Statement the Second: if you want to play a class that works on the 15-minute work day, it might be okay in this game. Combat isn't super frequent, and we generally have a chance to rest and recover between them... but not always. Make sure that you're an effective combatant (whether through martial or magical means) even when you don't have your big guns, and everything should be fine.
Statement the Third: As far as classes go, we manage just fine with a fully-divine party (Ranger/Cleric/Cleric/Inquisitor) but we could always use another frontliner, arcane spellcaster or maybe even a sneaky type. The most important thing is that, whatever you play, you're ready to get into their head and figure out why they do what they do, what they do it for, and how they're going to react to being pretty much stranded in a strange wilderness where nearly everything wants to murder you.
Statement the Fourth: And finally, don't assume anything! Our current best friends in this new world are hobgoblins of all things, and nearly everything else has tried to murder our faces.
Don't assume anything out of character, in character there was a large amount of angst over trying to negotiate with hobgoblins and we almost came to blows at first contact partly due to old world beliefs.
So probably best if your character isn't a foaming at the mouth, kill them all and loot the bodies kind of person but it might also not be believable if your character has no issues with sleeping unguarded in a bugbear camp. (One of our next trips is probably to make contact with the local bugbear population)
Hmm. What to add? I think my fellow PCs and Nerk have covered most everything. So, I guess I'll talk about our GM, the vibe of the game, the PC2s, and how the story is driven.
The Storytelling
Nerk is an excellent GM. He's crafted a real and interesting world. If you want to be part of a game that has ethical dilemmas, a sense of exploration and wonder, and sometimes hopeless dread, this is the game for you.
The Vibe
To me, the general vibe of the game right now is survival adventure/horror with a dash of Lovecraftian horror, the TV show Lost, some Indiana Jones, and a little The Sims/Sim City, set in a coastal version of the Appalachians/Ozarks, mashed together with South Carolina low country. As the game progresses, I imagine that the Sim City/Sims aspect will become more prominent. Right now, our town consists mostly of mud and tents, but one day, it will be a gleaming city on the hill...
The PC2s
Since Nerk did such a lovely description of the PCs, I thought I'd do one for the PC2s. The PC2s consist of:
Istiel, ranger and oh-so-serious elf supremacist.
Septimus Garr, human cleric of trickery, ex-con, and oh-so-sneaky dude.
Vada Mado, human barbarian, farmer and oh-so-guy with anger issues.
Sorala Tharn, half-elf witch, burgeoning hippy, and oh-so-know-it-all.
Driving the Story
This is important - your character should be a self-starter, with goals, dreams, hopes and perhaps an agenda. We lost a really good player to nopostitus that was great at driving the story, and I'm hoping that we can find someone at least as good.
I actually have a question about the PC2s. So from the description, it sounds like your normal PCs handle most of the skills and roleplaying, while your PC2s do most of the exploration stuff. Is that accurate?
Right now, the 2PCs are first level, the main PCs are 2nd+1 level of an NPC class. The exploring adventuring stuff is mainly done by the main PCs. Vallen is a stay-at-home dwarf, so Istiel went out with Cueta, Kal'Tos and Tomag this last time. I'm not sure how it will evolve in the future. I'd like for every character to be roleplayed and involved, which is part of why I'm not going to be immediately hanging a 2PC on new players. You'll need time to get into things and figure things out before you start trying to roleplay a 2nd character.
I actually have a question about the PC2s. So from the description, it sounds like your normal PCs handle most of the skills and roleplaying, while your PC2s do most of the exploration stuff. Is that accurate?
Our typical exploration party recently is mostly PCs, with one 2PC. But it varies depending on the situation. Party of that is due to most of our 2PCs not being player classes yet. But if we needed an expert on farming (which is this campaign is likely to come up at some point) Vada would likely come instead of Tomag. The real benefit of the secondary character is it allows all players to interact and participate even if their main character isn't where the action is. As such it is expected that one of your characters would accompany any exploration party.
@Dragonflyer:
The PC2s came about so that we can avoid a situation that cropped up early game, where two PCs were in our town (Newspring), and solving a mystery. Our other PCs were out of town exploring and were held up while the two at Newspring settled things there.
As a result, Nerk allowed for the 2PCs to be put into effect, under the expectation that we not split the party into more than an at-home group and an exploration group. And in a desire to keep our GM sane, we agreed (Nerk's got a lot to keep track of in this game).
In terms of gameplay, it can really work either way. Our most recent exploration group had one PC2 (Istiel, elf ranger) out with three PCs (Tomag, 1/2 orc inquistor; Kal'Tos, dwarf cleric; and Cueta, human ranger). Cueta has so far with Kal'Tos had very itchy feet, but my PC2 will at some point want to see the world, so I'll find some reason for Cueta to hang back at Newspring (likely to cause some general trouble - sorry, Nerk ;).
We've at other times had all our PCs and PC2s in Newspring, though our exploring group usually finds a reason to head out pretty quickly.
It may be helpful to design a character that you'd find may want to be a homebody or an explorer more often than not, but I don't think that's even really necessary - just create a motivation for your characters to stay or go as needed.
Vallen is a stay-at-home dwarf
This is hilarious and true.
Vallen, my PC, only goes out adventuring when his arm is twisted or if there is something that really piques his interest. It's for the best because he's not very good at combat, though he is great at solving out-of-combat problems. He will likely go on a few more adventures but he's hard to pull away from the forge. Of course, out-of-character if he's needed I can make up an excuse why he'll go.
Istiel (my 2PC elf warrior that Nerk made up who has turned into a resident badass) loves to explore and is on a (kind of) secret elf mission so she is more apt to explore and kick ass than Vallen. She is always looking for a reason to get out into the wild, polar opposite of Vallen. This evolved organically, really. Tomag has expressed that he may stay in Newspring as well and have his 2PC go exploring with the rest of the group, but we'll see.
Vada is ready to wreck stuff, though he's not really as effective in combat as Tomag is. ;)
@ Vin Goodman:
Either idea sounds perfectly acceptable in this campaign. Newspring (our hamlet) is really little more than a camp at this point, so your archaeologist would feel right at home :)
Your wizard would be a fine concept as well. Some of our PCs and PC2s have agendas that may or may not be realistic goals, but they drive them none-the-less.
Cueta, a very chaotic former Shackles "mariner," would like to see Newspring become a loosely organized privateer nation, that can conduct legitimate trade while harassing Chelish shipping channels and being involved in some sort of underground railroad. I would put this goal in the unrealistic category, and as she matures and comes to accept the need for 1) compromise and 2) a stronger central government, she'll probably shift quite considerably from this dream of hers to something more attainable.
My PC2, Sorala, has read a lot of subversive political tracts and imagines Newspring as a parlimentary or representative republic/democracy, taking the best qualities of Andoran. As she grows, she's probably going to advocate for a careful stewardship of the land.
That's a way by example of saying, design a character around a concept that you want to play, and if selected, I'm sure there's some space for it in this campaign.
@Vin Goodman:
Regarding capital: we've been combining ours so far to build community projects. Mostly, the PCs have been either making teams (stonemason team, guard team, fisher team), a forge, or food-generators (4 gardens and 2 farms; we have a house-rule that the food-generators "take 10" on food generation, providing the community with the gp cost of food units per day that they would on taking 10 for capital - so, for example, a garden taking 10 will provide us with 3.6 food units/day. Everyone in town consumes one unit per day (or a half-unit if they are starving and on half-rations, which we currently are). Some NPCs have capital as well, which they've sunk into other projects - most notably defensive walls, a common room and bunks for 10, and a guard tower.
You would, if selected, of course be under no obligation to share your capital, but I wanted to give you an idea of what we're doing with ours.
Regarding your bow, Cueta has a shortbow that she can't give away (seriously, she's tried to give it to four people so far). She uses thrown weapons mostly and hasn't fired it but three times since we've landed, so she's decided it should go to someone else. All your PC would have to do is mention that he lost his bow within her earshot and she'd trip over herself to give you hers. It's no composite longbow, but it would hold you over for the time being.
Our fishersentients are starting to do their gendernonspecific duties, we just managed to get our first gardens really going, and our away team just brought back enough food to really help the community: for the first time, we're actually not in immediate danger of people starving to death.
If you want to put your capital into helping finish stuff, start new buildings, or even save it for something else, that's totally cool. I will say, however, that investing now will provide great benefits: such as not dying horrifically. D:
Istiel doesn't want your stinkin' monkey bow!
Actually once Gair passes (it pains me to say that. A part of me still hopes he'll return with an outrageous Canadian excuse why he has been gone for a month and a half) Istiel is going to take his bow-crafting kit and his unfinished longbow and attempt to complete it. It would be nice to get a compound longbow from the hobs but they probably only have a few and they want 2 dead elves a dead human and a dead halfling thrown into a ravine for one.
Our fishersentients are starting to do their gendernonspecific duties
I love you Tomag.
Also I understand why Nerk contained us to the discussion thread now...
Stuff about bows
nnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
I'm never going to get rid of this f%!!ing bow, am I?
I don't know why you want to get rid of it so badly, that badass stand against the kurus while tied to a tree is more than enough reason to keep it if you ask me.
Istiel doesn't want your stinkin' monkey bow!
Actually once Gair passes (it pains me to say that. A part of me still hopes he'll return with an outrageous Canadian excuse why he has been gone for a month and a half) Istiel is going to take his bow-crafting kit and his unfinished longbow and attempt to complete it. It would be nice to get a compound longbow from the hobs but they probably only have a few and they want 2 dead elves a dead human and a dead halfling thrown into a ravine for one.
Our fishersentients are starting to do their gendernonspecific dutiesI love you Tomag.
Also I understand why Nerk contained us to the discussion thread now...
Being Canadian myself I don't understand how our excuses could be that different. I mean polar bear mauling and snow banks so thick they block wifi are a common occurrence everywhere aren't they?
Also didn't we determine that fishersentient was too objectphobic/ sentiocentric for our GM's liking?
Actually once Gair passes (it pains me to say that. A part of me still hopes he'll return with an outrageous Canadian excuse why he has been gone for a month and a half) Istiel is going to take his bow-crafting kit and his unfinished longbow and attempt to complete it. It would be nice to get a compound longbow from the hobs but they probably only have a few and they want 2 dead elves a dead human and a dead halfling thrown into a ravine for one.
They're pretty open to negotiation. They'd probably settle for 2 dead elves.
I don't know why you want to get rid of it so badly, that badass stand against the kurus while tied to a tree is more than enough reason to keep it if you ask me.
Thanks, Vallen! Cueta's no Gair or Tomag, but she has her moments.
snow banks so thick they block wifi
Holy cow, is this really a thing that happens in Canada? We got a foot of snow in my city last winter, and I couldn't get out of my neighborhood for two days. Luckily, we had wifi during that time.
Oh, before I go, Cueta, I'll be glad to trade you as many clubs as you can carry for that bow. Good weight for throwing and all. I'll hand pick, um, make them too. You can really put your strength behind those. Just saying...
Quick Bluff roll: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (3) + 5 = 8
*squints eyes at haggard, hungry-looking elf*
*squints eyes harder*
*harder*
Sold, to the hungry-looking elf in the back! Now, let's talk about my arrows. I hear you've got some capital laying around...
snow banks so thick they block wifiHoly cow, is this really a thing that happens in Canada? We got a foot of snow in my city last winter, and I couldn't get out of my neighborhood for two days. Luckily, we had wifi during that time.
No it isn't. My first day in Manitoba we got a foot of snow and it was cleared within a couple hours. The amount of snow you would need to block WiFi is Ice Age levels.
No it isn't. My first day in Manitoba we got a foot of snow and it was cleared within a couple hours. The amount of snow you would need to block WiFi is Ice Age levels.
snow banks so thick they block wifiHoly cow, is this really a thing that happens in Canada? We got a foot of snow in my city last winter, and I couldn't get out of my neighborhood for two days. Luckily, we had wifi during that time.
Haha, that's good to know. Canadians must have snow-clearing down to a science. They don't normally plow city side streets here, unless, like this storm last winter, enough people are stuck in their houses that the city grinds to a halt, and people get frustrated. I imagine the whole scene would be amusing to a Manitoban.
I know Cueta Guiding Star's player from another game and I would be overjoyed to join them for another campaign, in addition to my eagerness to play e6.
<waves> Hiya, Morphling!</waves>
Haha, that's good to know. Canadians must have snow-clearing down to a science. They don't normally plow city side streets here, unless, like this storm last winter, enough people are stuck in their houses that the city grinds to a halt, and people get frustrated. I imagine the whole scene would be amusing to a Manitoban.No it isn't. My first day in Manitoba we got a foot of snow and it was cleared within a couple hours. The amount of snow you would need to block WiFi is Ice Age levels.
snow banks so thick they block wifiHoly cow, is this really a thing that happens in Canada? We got a foot of snow in my city last winter, and I couldn't get out of my neighborhood for two days. Luckily, we had wifi during that time.
A foot of snow in one day sucks even when you have a really efficient system. You could go places the whole time, but most secondary routes and parking lots weren't cleared for a while so people were still getting stuck sometimes. It didn't help that I had a rental car since I was just out here looking for a place to live at the time. Most of the snow here happens at the start and end of winter. It is too cold in January/ February for much snow. School here only gets cancelled if the bus can't make it out of the parking lot or the wind chill hits -49 Fahrenheit.
Ahem. Kal'Tos, Cueta, I can't help but overhear all your lamenting about snow. I just so happen to have this shovel with me. You know, with the winter season upon us, it might just come in handy. Now, about those arrows...
Leconair, throw in a snow shovel and its another sale!
Okay, I'm up to page 30 and an idea is starting to emerge (though I realise with 20 pages to go everything is subject to change).
I'd like to post what I've got and see if anyone who is playing has any advice.
A lot of this campaign seems to be (as was said) about interactions between PCs (and NPCs and semi-NPCs) about how their new home should be.
This makes me think that some sort of conflict to talk about might be good - but not so much that it results in hostility.
All the dwarves seem to pride themselves on their craftsmanship, but this craftsmanship seems to be based on ancient - and proprietary - techniques. Some of the things said by Vallen when looking at the carvings seem to indicate that the dwarves feel the quest for sky lost them some skills or techniques.
This has got me thinking about a follower of Brigh, constantly inventing and dedicated to "Share what you know". Importantly it would not be a dwarf. The idea was to have someone who superficially appears much like Vallen, but whom Vallen might see as a (religious?) trial. My model is arguments like broad gauge/narrow gauge and metric/imperial.
Not thinking a cleric. While these arguments might border on theological war, I don't want to actually start some sort of religious-based civil war non-craftspeople don't understand.
Okay, I'm up to page 30 and an idea is starting to emerge (though I realise with 20 pages to go everything is subject to change).
I'd like to post what I've got and see if anyone who is playing has any advice.
A lot of this campaign seems to be (as was said) about interactions between PCs (and NPCs and semi-NPCs) about how their new home should be.
This makes me think that some sort of conflict to talk about might be good - but not so much that it results in hostility.
All the dwarves seem to pride themselves on their craftsmanship, but this craftsmanship seems to be based on ancient - and proprietary - techniques. Some of the things said by Vallen when looking at the carvings seem to indicate that the dwarves feel the quest for sky lost them some skills or techniques.
This has got me thinking about a follower of Brigh, constantly inventing and dedicated to "Share what you know". Importantly it would not be a dwarf. The idea was to have someone who superficially appears much like Vallen, but whom Vallen might see as a religious trial. My model is things like broad gauge/narrow gauge and metric/imperial.
Not thinking a cleric. While these arguments might border on theological war, I don't want to actually start some of religious-based civil war non-craftspeople don't understand.
I am not sure if Vallen sees a line between his techniques and his religion. But he is currently teaching a Hobgoblin how to be a smith so I don't think he will be too concerned about you being an inventor. But who knows maybe it will cause him to go postal and bludgeon you to death with his hammer.
Kal'Tos won't care, the god he worships and serves is not a traditional dwarven god. Currently his main concern is creating a safe and stable environment, both to protect his younger brother and to protect the investment the Church of Abadar has placed into this colony. Oddly, in many ways Kal'Tos is more conservative about dwarven culture than Vallen is, despite Vallen being a cleric of a traditional dwarven god.
Indeed - I've now gotten to page 40 and the lecture on dwarven philosophy while taking a Hobgoblin apprentice back to Newspring. Really need to read everything first I guess.
I have concerns about a 8 year old PC, less so with him as a 2 PC. Even as a 2 PC though most people would probably ignore an 8 year old at the stage we are at, survival taking priority over a child prodigy.
@Harakani
Brigh worshipper: Certainly Vallen should weigh in on this. From my vantage-point any conflict may be more of the practical kind (competition for resources, forge-time, etc.) than theological.
Cueta, for her part, would welcome another inventor-type. She's really keen to get some sort of self-propulsion river vessels built for exploration and military purposes along our rivers. Even more so now that we know that there are elves at or around a great river to our west. Obviously in game-time and real-life time, this is a long ways off. And a note of caution about invention in general - Nerk has said (in regards to my desire to build steam-powered river craft at least) that he'd like to keep the tech level at the age of sail. I've been kicking some ideas around with Galorit/Vallen about how keep things tech-appropriate for my river craft, and I'd think a worshipper of Brigh might have to take similar tech levels into account as well, depending on where you'd like to go with the character.
Vasiley: I really like the concept. Here's a real-example of a young man, August Chouteau (age 14) who founded a the French trading post of St. Louis. He had to manage a group of French rivermen to do so, which is quite an accomplishment for such a young man (imagine managing 30 Cuetas - she's inspired in part by the "ideal" western riverman). Nobody would be asking Vasiley to lead, and this is fantasy, so I think 8 is a possible age for this story to be told, if Nerk is OK with it.
Cueta would have a problem with Vasiley wandering the New World, however. She sees the world as a trichotomy - monsters (Kuru, krakens, probably native elves and dwarves, possibly the hobgoblins and bugbears), mothers (the PCs, some of the PC2s, Edmund, the guards, Jaysin, Ingwe, Manari, grudgingly Melilla, perhaps Sorala and Sandra, and in their own ways Walton and Sai) and children (everyone else, regardless of age who is incapable of fending for themselves in this world - even Newspring's champion, Gair, in his sick state, has been reduced to a child). For obvious reasons, Vasiley would fall squarely in the "children" camp, and thus his place would be at Newspring under protection by the hamlet's mothers.
Of course, she could be convinced otherwise. There's no reason why, if an adult can be a "child" in Cueta's mind, the roles can't be reversed (and it would be a fun journey in my opinion). But she would have to be convinced. I suspect it would be even harder to convince Tomag.
Sorala, for her part, wouldn't be so concerned. She's a bit more of a pragmatist, I think. Got cool and useful powers? Cool - get to work.
If there is a campaign to play an 8 year-old child prodigy, I'd think this would be a good one - with Nerk's blessing of course.
With the new additions, it'll probably be a month or so (real time) before I add 2PCs. I want the players to have the opportunity to get used to us and vice versa, and it's just a matter of a little GM fiat to prevent anything major from happening on the stage where the new people aren't. If the two new adds are clever, they can send one out to explore and have one stay in Newspring to ensure smooth sailing for a month. The cool thing about that is how terrible my wrath will be.
Also, for new character backstory, I'm thinking something along the lines of:
a) The Laughing Lillend limps back into Absalom's harbor. When the city hears the news from the Lillend, most people agree that any effort to aid the poor souls who were left on the new continent's shores is tantamount to suicide. Captain Kynack feels differently. While his ship is too beat up to do anything but be put in drydock for a month or so (at least) there is the Wasp's Tail. She was separated from the main fleet in the first storm, and retreated back to Absalom, where her Captain was relieved of his duty and his head by persons unknown the day after the ship made port. A few souls from the Wasp's Tail, a few sailors brave or foolhardy enough to risk the journey, a silent backer and Kynack are enough to put together a smaller expedition. One ship to bring further colonists and hope to the people of Newspring.
With the new additions, it'll probably be a month or so (real time) before I add 2PCs. I want the players to have the opportunity to get used to us and vice versa, and it's just a matter of a little GM fiat to prevent anything major from happening on the stage where the new people aren't. If the two new adds are clever, they can send one out to explore and have one stay in Newspring to ensure smooth sailing for a month. The cool thing about that is how terrible my wrath will be.
Also, for new character backstory, I'm thinking something along the lines of:
a) The Laughing Lillend limps back into Absalom's harbor. When the city hears the news from the Lillend, most people agree that any effort to aid the poor souls who were left on the new continent's shores is tantamount to suicide. Captain Kynack feels differently. While his ship is too beat up to do anything but be put in drydock for a month or so (at least) there is the Wasp's Tail. She was separated from the main fleet in the first storm, and retreated back to Absalom, where her Captain was relieved of his duty and his head by persons unknown the day after the ship made port. A few souls from the Wasp's Tail, a few sailors brave or foolhardy enough to risk the journey, a silent backer and Kynack are enough to put together a smaller expedition. One ship to bring further colonists and hope to the people of Newspring.
Is a month enough time for all that to happen? Other than potential timeline issues it sounds good to me.
It's probably not, Kal'Tos. Maybe the Wasp's Tail is already underway under another captain (Kanyck?) and they pass the Lillend as she's limping through the straits of not-Gibralter.
It's probably not, Kal'Tos. Maybe the Wasp's Tail is already underway under another captain (Kanyck?) and they pass the Lillend as she's limping through the straits of not-Gibralter.
That makes more sense time wise.
Harakani- Be aware that I make up a lot of the stuff about dwarven smithing/smelting techniques to gloss over the lack of mechanics for such things. I'm a dabbling blacksmith in real life and it's more of a way to keep my anal-retentive self sane without bothering the piss out of Nerk to make up complicated rules that frankly aren't needed.
Avistan dwarves have been on the surface for more than 4000 years, so ancient is relative. From what Vallen could make out of the carving styles, the dwarves that got lost on the Quest for Sky did not make the same kind of advances as the ones that arrived in Avistan. The Avistan dwarves lost much of their architectural knowledge that allowed them to build the Sky Citadels, but advanced in other artistic and social ways.
The native dwarves appear to be steeped heavily to the old ways but they managed to construct ships so they're obviously technologically advanced as much as the Avistan dwarves. They just seem to have an ancient, now demonically twisted culture, and have not advanced in the arts much.
I will also confess I made up everything about Torag's domain in the religous/philosophical discussion on the way back to Newspring. There is not much material about the afterlife for Torag, so I made something I thought was cool and appropriate, and Nerk didn't smite Vallen into cripsy dwarf jerky so I assume he doesn't care if I make up lore that only affects my character.
Kal'tos is correct that Vallen does not see any distinction between technique and his religion. His technique IS his religion. His Holy Book is Forge and Tongs: Smithing and Other Good works, which is literally a book about divinely inspired smithing. Smithing and smelting are seen as one of the purest acts of worship of Torag. Vallen is completely focused on pleasing Torag and carrying out the duties expected of him, as you might expect from a priest.
However, Vallen is not a typical priest of Torag, which I tie into his artistic nature. He is a stonemason, sculptor, artist, and architect first and foremost. It is one of his secret wishes to get stonework recognized by the clergy and Torag to be as holy as smithing, and while that will probably never happen a dwarf can dream. As such he was only trained in classical blacksmithing and has had to recently learn to make weapons and armor. This all still fine with him because he's worshipping his god in a way that is helping the community, Win-Win. As Kal'tos said Vallen is not so much concerned with traditional dwarven values because he also harbors a little bit of a desire to slightly modify his own traditionally structured religion. A little bit of chaos among the law, if you will, and his artwork will often reflect this.
Now...Vallen would react in the following ways to the following individuals- A dwarf smith/mason that worships Torag or his pantheon is exactly as it should be, and will be praised. A dwarf smith/mason that does not worship Torag is weird and he would try to subtly convert them. A dwarf smith/mason that worships something opposed to Torag (or heaven forbid, Droskar) is a heretic and to his sadness he would denounce them and try to help them back on the path to righteousness.
Any non-dwarf smith or inventor can do whatever they want as far as he's concerned (With the except of worshipping an evil god or Droskar). He would attempt to subtly convert them, as he plans to do with Sharpeyes, but he's not going to get in their face about it. After all, they're not dwarves, why should they care about the creator of dwarves, but he would be quick to point out the virtues of Torag and his love of craftsmanship.
Vallen considers Kal'tos (a miner) a little weird for not worshiping Torag but the two have had many discussions on the matter and they have an understanding. Vallen respects Kal'tos and his decision/calling, and is happy to call him brother.
A priest of Brigh would be welcomed by him, and the two would probably get into serious engineering discussions. If it were a dwarf, he would question why they do not worship Torag heavily, but Brigh is not evil and would not consider them some kind of danger. The forge is full right now- Vallen, Gaross, Horn'tos and Sharpeyes are all using it and it only has three "slots", and unless it's the end of the world as they know it no one is taking Vallen away from his forge.
Did that answer your concerns?
On the subject of a child, Vallen loves children and he is too soft-hearted to allow them to get in harm's way. Istiel hates non-elven kids and avoids them, especially human kids. Of course if everyone else doesn't care and we make it happen so be it, Istiel isn't enough of an a!%$++~ to kick a kid down a ravine but she probably flat-out wouldn't even speak to him. Vallen would be highly conerned, but when is he not worrying about something?
In short, it could work and I have no out-of-character qualms about it, but my characters wouldn't be happy about it.
I think I covered everything...
Nerk- I like the Wisp's Tail idea a lot. Can you image the excitement in Newspring? The moral boost at realizing we're not forgotten and the Illend made it back would be incredible.
I like the Wasp's Tail idea as well. One thing that may make it work, time-wise - the real world has currents that if a ship can catch, will take them very quickly from North America to Europe, especially if you caught the Gulf Stream from Florida or the Carribean. Who's to say that the Lillend didn't discover something similar on the way back? Thus, the trip to the New World would still be dangerous and filled with horror, while the trip from the NW would be relatively quick, if still filled with horror. Think of it as light speed for the age of sail.
Or, alternatively, there could be a "Gulf Stream" to the NW and one away from it, which would make control of those currents very important to any sort of political players, nations, and/or merchant consortiums interested in the NW (as well as us Newspringers, as we would have a stake in these trade routes too). Perhaps Kynack is a pretty bright dude and figured out, after stumbling on the NW -> Avistan current, that there is one back to the NW, allowing him to make the round trip in ~ one month, if we have the new arrivals arrive at the feast as we discussed?
Tomag would, without any compunctions, throw Vasily over his shoulder and bring him back to Newspring and possibly tie him to a post, rather than let him follow the party around. With the possibility of losing Zoriya, he has absolutely no intention of losing the kids, as well.
As 2PCs who hang around town, he could probably learn to deal with it. He feels that, if not his sons, Zoriya's kids are very much like younger brothers to him, and he would sooner flay himself then let danger come near them.
I'm not particularly fussed if the boat couldn't normally reach us in a month. Tomag is worried about the here and now in Newspring, not about how long or short it takes boats to reach them. ;)
Cueta, for her part, would welcome another inventor-type. She's really keen to get some sort of self-propulsion river vessels built for exploration and military purposes along our rivers. Even more so now that we know that there are elves at or around a great river to our west. Obviously in game-time and real-life time, this is a long ways off. And a note of caution about invention in general - Nerk has said (in regards to my desire to build steam-powered river craft at least) that he'd like to keep the tech level at the age of sail. I've been kicking some ideas around with Galorit/Vallen about how keep things tech-appropriate for my river craft, and I'd think a worshipper of Brigh might have to take similar tech levels into account as well, depending on where you'd like to go with the character.
Thanks: that's critical to know. Brigh (Clockwork) tends to work at the later part of the age of steam. Alchemy, Clockwork and Gunpowder do allow a lot of stuff, especially when Magic can be used to knock off some of the issues.
I will also confess I made up everything about Torag's domain in the religous/philosophical discussion on the way back to Newspring. There is not much material about the afterlife for Torag, so I made something I thought was cool and appropriate, and Nerk didn't smite Vallen into cripsy dwarf jerky so I assume he doesn't care if I make up lore that only affects my character.
One of my favourite PCs was a Forgepriest, so I've read everything I could on Torag, and I thought what you posted was an excellent explanation of the philosophy (as I understand it).
I'm hoping for philosophical arguments as opposed to hatred, so I've tried to build Donatello into someone who could have been one of the greatest craftsmen ever but who tries to do a job quickly instead of well. I'm hoping that this will irritate Vallen enough to make Donatello someone he wants to convert especially if there's a risk he's indoctrinating his beliefs into the kids.Vallen is a true craftsman, who builds forever. If it were allowed, Donatello would invent plastic.
I've tried to avoid solely Droskar (Toil for toil's sake) but make him the antithesis of a craftsman. Worse, this is because of an Abadarian teaching he got on efficiency.
About Vasily
A lot of the attraction of the character to me is in the fact that he'd have to prove himself. I think he's going to have to be the homebody, at least at the start. I've noticed that when Newspring is attacked everyone seems to just sort of pile in, and I can see Vasily helping there. Even if he doesn't have his magic yet, a few vials of alchemist's fire could turn the tide of a battle.
How people react to an 8 year old fighting - especially if he's effective and you're in desperate need - is something I'd like to play with. I think Vasily is going to need to be smart and manipulative if he's ever going to be allowed on a trip "out".
Tomag is worried about the here and now in Newspring, not about how long or short it takes boats to reach them. ;)
It makes me very happy to know that Tomag has no interest in sailing ships, 'cause CUETA WANTS ALL THE SHIPS*!!!
*and rowboats, canoes, keelboats, bullboats, longships, yachts, rafts, ship's boats, junks, man o' wars, lifeboats, inner tubes, waterskis, flatboats, corvairs, pirogues...
Basically, you could say she wants a... boatload. (groan)
Worse, this is because of an Abadarian teaching he got on efficiency.
What heresy is this.
The church of Abadar is clear on the matter that anything worth doing is worth doing right. Which means not cutting corners for "efficiency". To do otherwise is to insult the Lord of the First Vault, which may be dangerous around Kal'Tos.
The church of Abadar did not become one of the premier banking establishments of the world by providing second rate goods or services to anyone.
Worse, this is because of an Abadarian teaching he got on efficiency.What heresy is this.
The church of Abadar is clear on the matter that anything worth doing is worth doing right. Which means not cutting corners for "efficiency". To do otherwise is to insult the Lord of the First Vault, which may be dangerous around Kal'Tos.
Terrible, terrible heresy! Alkenstar seems to have Abadar and Torag as its primary gods, so I figure there must be a lot of people worshipping them and religious factioning/getting it wrong.
The Lord of the First Vault's teaching seems like it could easily become about Wealth, rather than Civilisation. I can totally see an Abadarian merchant Donatello trained under who cared only for money crossing that line.
I'd also like to have young Donatello very disappointed to hear from a xenophobic dwarf that "Torag only judges dwarves".
I'm looking to build someone who dwarven clerics would want to teach, rather than burn, so tell me if this goes too far!
Heresy is not something Kal'Tos would take lightly. If you guys arrive on a ship he will be sending word that these new lands need dwarven warriors, no dwarven Paladins to cleanse his fallen kin.
Being driven by heretical teachings falsely portrayed as being those of Abadar would have him debating whether to use his axe or his hammer unless the person quickly repented. After all, Abadar teaches that infection must be purged quickly before it has a chance to spread to save as much as can be saved to do otherwise is wasteful.
Good ol' dwarven justice! Kal'tos is our main provider of frontier justice and crucifixions, though he has been dissuaded from crucifying anyone yet. But a time will come... someone will do something... unforgivable...
Good ol' dwarven justice! Kal'tos is our main provider of frontier justice and crucifixions, though he has been dissuaded from crucifying anyone yet. But a time will come... someone will do something... unjustifiable...
If someone shows up unrepentant of heresy, particularly if it relates to Abadar, just try to stop me.
Fair enough - can you suggest something that would cause theological discussions, but not go too far?
I do still want Donatello to be a bit slapdash (don't want to comptete for the master craftsman niche) but am happy to put that down to laziness.
He can still believe that speed is more important than quality, just don't have him getting it from an Abadarian heretic. Then according to Kal'Tos he is merely wrong/ misguided not a heretic. Kal'Tos hates heretics, particularly if they are dwarven heretics.
and Vallen wasn't joking when he said I have tried to have people crucified. Others felt strongly enough that it not happen that I didn't go through with it , but that was on far less serious issues than heresy.
Thankfully(?) we have an excess of dwarven heretics, who happen to worship demons that everyone can hate.
The elven vassals already know where we are, it's just a matter of time before the dwarves show up and try to sacrifice peoples. I doubt the demon-dwarves will be so subtle, and will probably just charge in mouths foaming.
On a side note if we are victorious against them, free longship! And free crucifixions!
if we are attacked by the demon worshiping dwarves and any survive the battle they will greet the next morning nailed to a cross, and anyone who tried to stop me would be hanging beside them.