Gardens of the Moon (Inactive)

Game Master Aku Warashi

Ganoes Paran: "I want to be a soldier. A hero."
Whiskeyjack: "You'll grow out of it."


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Moranth Swashbuckler 1 [HP 12/12 | AC:17 | T:14 | FF:13 | CMB + 2 | CMD:14 | Fort:+1 | Ref:+5 | Will:+0 | Init:+3 | Per:+0 | Stealth +5 | Intimidate:+7 | Acrobatics: +8]

whatever you decided, welcome aboard!


I'll update tomorrow.

Brazilian Carnival. Drank to much. Bad ass hangover.

Peace, out.


M

Whirling Staff Defender

Here is what I have so far. Little front loaded but weak attack power.

Couple notes. Going to have spells based off of Wisdom and I combined the Arcane pool and Ki pool into one. Only get enhancement affect of Arcane pool and uses for Magus Arcana. Ki pool acts as normal except I have to enhance the weapon for the Damage Reduction to take affect. Otherwise the weapon, and my fists, do normal damage.

Stats
Str: 14 Not weak but not strong either
Dex: 17 Very fast and reactive
Con: 12 Tough enough to take a hit but doesn't get hit often
Int: 10 No formal training or education
Wis: 16 Hand to fend for himself for a long time and quite experienced in one on one combat
Char: 12 Doesn't speak much but people tend to listen when he does


@Zayne

Humm
You know that spells works a bit different, right?
Also, I've requested permission to see the file.


M

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1chsvFxUwezTr3uFnUG-YPbM-oTvyhrQc2ojbI7p BbyY/edit?usp=sharing

Does this work?

What spell?


The whole magic system works in a different way.

I'll post a summary for you in some hours. I think that's what made everyone run from a magic based class.

Edit: Is you char based on the monk? I mean, as rule before, I said that if you wanted to have magic, your char should be based on a class that had spells.

But I'll let Melasoul take a loot at it, since he is way better than me at this. :)

Edit2: Urgh, forget what I said, I need to give a complete reading in your class before making any valid comment.


M

I have more in common with the monk class. He is more martially inclined than magic. The only magic I would be using is Denul unless I could use the adept base class. I use it as fluff to explain his almost uncanny ability to read opponents, hence the monk Wis to AC. That and I was going for the type of monk that can eventually heal himself. Like master Yi from League of Legends. His parents were healers and he was old enough to learn a little of the Denul warren before they died. If you want I can just take the one warren but I intend to use it to self-reinforce later. Bull's strength, Iron skin, Cat's grace, Owl's Wisdom, yada yada.


I've still not ready your class...

But healing works in a different way too... It is only used outside battle... and even then, it may take a long time...

>.<


[Tactical Map] [Seven Cities]

@Braven Truth and Green Howl

For anything miliraty related, that's your name, kinda they don't use 'family' names in the army. Feel free to change your profile if you want.


@Zayne

Once you give me a bit of information about background, I'll get you into the game. I reckon that it may take some time until there's any 'real' combat which will need the complete character sheet.

Also, since this game is ‘heavily’ house-ruled and modified, we agreed to during the game, if we feel there’s something not working right or too overpowered or underpowered compared to the other players, we would make changes the necessary changes to correct it.


[Tactical Map] [Seven Cities]

@Zayne and Briccone
Melasoul and Blond already play with me for some time now, more than a year.
For you, I’ll give a warning notice; they say my combat encounters are gruesome.

With that behind us, while I admit it may seem hard, usually my npcs are not single-minded machines with the sole purpose of killing the players. They have emotions, they make bad decisions, and they act harshly.

Combats are a chaotic mess, and while it’s taxing and demanding, I think they are also entertaining.
I like to build tension, to keep players on edge. I like to make things feel as if they were completely lost, to push the players on the brink of despair (well, not that bad, actually), to make things feel as if you take the wrong step, it’ll (and believe me, it will) get everyone else killed.

There are encounters that are not meant to be won.

I usually try to keep dice rolling to a minimum, giving more importance to role play and clever thinking.

I’ll admit I don’t like min-maxers and optimizers, because, while I take into consideration your skills, I give bonus and penalties based on your role play. So, most of the times, all you need to do is role play.

I don’t mind answering player questions, and I know I’m not the best one when we talk about rules. I make mistakes; I count on you to help me in those instances when I do something wrong.

I have in high esteem, players able to keep player and character knowledge separated. With that in mind, please understand that the npcs motivation, reaction, sheet is something known only to the DM, and it’s all right if you don’t understand why an npc did something or how he did it.
I’m saying that, because in other games, I have a player that thinks he must know everything the npcs are capable of doing, and if he don’t know, the npc can’t do it.
In another game, I lost a player, because he thought to be more important to discuss mechanics and rules over role playing a scene that I had created exclusively for him, bending the rules in his favor, but since the npc reaction was not what he wanted or agreed, he tried to make me use the DM magic and redo the entire thing to be as the player wanted it to be.

I know this don’t apply to any of you, I’ve been gaming with you for some time. But you only know me as player, and I’m a rather different person when DM’ing.

With all that said, for everyone, once again, thanks for joining the game and welcome.


I’m listing here all we discussed about magic:

Basic Concept.
More in depth explanation of the magic system.
Here about magic items.


M

I read most of the stuff on magic. Forgot I had to base it off a casting class to have casting. What if I had access to only the one Warren, Denul, rather than up to four and the highest manifestation was 6?


Zayne Iwatani wrote:
I read most of the stuff on magic. Forgot I had to base it off a casting class to have casting. What if I had access to only the one Warren, Denul, rather than up to four and the highest manifestation was 6?

Well, that can be arranged, but you would need to drop some stuffs from monk, to compensate for it. I usually think that someone able to use magic, should not be that good as monk in all the tests, and mostly I don't think I like the idea of having the primary spellcasting ability score, the same one as the primary class ability score. (Wis spellcasting plus Monk Wisdom based bonus.)

Also there's the nature of magic. If you get it using based on your faith, then it's granted by your god, and thus it should use your wisdom score. However any other form of spellcasting, means that you use it thorough intellect, and then it should be based on your intelligence. For this particular game, there's no CHA based caster.

I think it would be easier, if you based your class on something else, such as Inquisitor, and work from there, adding monk stuff to create what your concept.


M

So story is like I wrote earlier. He was orphaned on the island of the Segulah. He doesn't remember his parents well but he knows at least that he was not born there. But that didn't matter to Segulah. Only strength mattered. And he was strong. Thanks to his innate ability to use the Denul Warren he was able to stay alive until adulthood and obtain a mask. But it didn't feel like much of an accomplishment. like most Segulah, he respected martial strength. It was his dream, like many, to be the best swordsman he could be. But as a child of two worlds, he knew that beig the best here wouldn't mean he was truly the best. Two of the highest positions in society were occupied by outsiders. That meant there were those out there that could rival the strength of the strongest in a nation were all strived for that very purpose. Maybe the xenophobic attitude here was actually hampering them. The thought shocked him. To think that Segulah could be weak was treasonous. But it wouldn't go away either. So he set out to find the truth. He split his mask in half to represent that he had not fully abandoned his heritage and was willing to accept some input from others.

The lower half is what is left so I imagine him having the bottom half of Ichigo's mask from Bleach. I will switch to Magus as the base but a lot that stuff is getting replaced.


Humm.

Let me tell you something cool about the Seguleh.
That can be your character point of view but...

A Zealot prophet kept sending priests to the Seguleh island, even tho they always refused it, and sent back a message to the same prophet, to stop that.

The Prophet didn't heard their warning.

So, the Seguleh sent a punitive army to deal with the Prophet and their zealot masses...

The Seguleh punitive army consisted of:

Seguleh Third: Mok
A fourteen years old Seguleh, Eleventh Level Initiate, with no rank: Senu
A Unranked Seguleh: Thurule

And that's it.

Nothing that the Prophet did, was able to stop them, until they finally arrived at the prophet capital.

Three Seguleh against an army.

--

Another example:

Onos T'oolan, First sword of the Imass empire, which is one of the founding races, from what humans are descendant.
Being first sword, means he is the strongest warrior of all Imass.

More than that, Due to some cataclysmic decisions, the Entire Imass race, went through a ritual, and were transformed in sentient undeads, today known as T'lan Imass.

He is alive for more than 300.000 years. (Sorry, to big of a number, I don't know how to write it.)

Onos once met Mok, Seguleh Third. And due to cultural differences, The first sword could not abide not to challenge Mok.

Onos Lost.

--


M

Very traitorous thoughts then. That makes me want to make the most powerful swordsman ever. What would I need to give up from the Lore Warden fighter to get bardic performance? Specifically battle dance from dervish of dawn. I am thinking scimitar wielding tornado.


Edit: My previous post got eaten...

As a rule, I'd say, do as you please, post your concept and we'll take a look and suggest, based on what you expect from your character.

(A smaller, compact version of what I had said.)

--

Please bear in mind that, I was not the one that revised and all the classes.

Melasoul, that is kinda away was the one that did most of the job, talking and understanding what the player wanted.

For my part, this is a epic scale game, and thus, you'll be, one way or another, capable of challenging gods.

I just want it to be done through a strong character, not a sum of optimized numbers. :)


M

Or I could do what I always wanted to do, an undead necromancer. T'lan Imass makes for the perfect excuse.


Sadly, they are not a playable race.

Too powerful, too old, too much knowledge.
There's no way to keep the same 'flavor' of an Imass, with a normal character.

But, there are other sentient undeads, if you want to pursuit that path. You'll just need a really good history, explaining why they accepted you at the army.


Hey all, sorry I've been so quiet. Work has been really hectic. -_-

Anyway, I might have some time this week to work out something and look some things over. I have a weeding to be in next weekend and will not really be available past Thursday, until probably Monday night.

Anyway, throw some things out there and I'll take a look and throw some ideas around with you. : )

=================

Aku Warashi wrote:
He is alive for more than 300.000 years. (Sorry, to big of a number, I don't know how to write it.)

In U.S. numerics, use commas for every three digits from the right, and a period between things greater than one, and things less than one.

ex: 300,000 and 2,500,000 and 3.14159

U.K English uses spaces instead of commas, and a comma instead of a period.

ex: 300 000 and 2 500 000 and 3,14159

I'm not sure which Canada uses.


M

Whirling Staff Defender

Dropped spells all together. Fluffed the monk abilities as internalization of the Denul Warren. He is almost pure monk but I changed out archetype abilities as I saw fit to make him a pretty beefy tank. Added only one thing from another class. Close Weapon Mastery changed to use Monk weapons.


Canada technically uses the space (UK english) but you'll see it done both ways so frequently that we just get used to both. The USA has a huge influence on us. E.G. I use km to empty display on my car, but use MPG to determine fuel efficiency.


@all

Bear with me in this 'introduction'.

I know the games feels very strange and slow paced. I'm still adjusting some things, and once we are clear out of this part, things will get better, I hope. :D

Also, remember that, this some somewhat themed to be a 'drama' history, and as such, expect a grim and heavy game.

That's why I removed the alignment system from the game. Be whatever you want, without trying to fit a particular alignment.


M

I think I will stick with the same story abouts. Only the bottom part of his mask remains, so he will not have to fight everyone that he locks eyes with. Being originally from Genabahkis, he at least understands that difference between Seguleh culture and everyone else's. He has pride in the land he eventually came to call home. But doubt has crept in. Are they right in the way they do things? Is it necessary to put even the children through so much? Is such martial prowess worth it? Since two outsiders have made it into their top 10, maybe there is a better way. That will be his justification for joining the war effort, to eventually meet this Dassem Ultor and find out how he became so strong to challenge the top 10.

Verdict on the class?


I'm looking at it and playing with the numbers now. It is definitely front loaded, and I'll look into fixing that. Also, Monk is traditionally underpowered, but I think we can take care of that too.

If you don't mind, I'm going to build and propose a rewrite, like I did with Briccone.


Ok, so I see a conflicting theme. You seem both be very fast/agile (the evasions, the flowing stuff, the defensive roll stuff) and super though (the Bastion Stuff, Adamantine Monk, Iron Limb Stuff).

This isn't necessarily a problem, just a little odd. If you were going to focus on one more than the other, which would it be?

Also, I see nothing specifically staff related.


M

Defense over speed. I guess since I have Bastion Stance, mobility isn't my concern. But its defense via speed and reflexes. As a monk with no armor I am going to be dodging pretty much all shots rather than taking them so speed and agility should fit. What could I pick up for staff focus besides Quarterstaff Defense? There isn't a lot out there.


You can fluff the defensive abilities however you want. The abilities are just a bit at odds with one another (like a lot of monk abilities that I intend to rectify).

Well, I was more wondering because there are a lot of abilities that focus on being unarmed. If you'd rather use a quarterstaff, I can replace the unarmed based abilities with more quarterstaffy/monk weapony things.


M

I want to stick with the staff so that's why I took Close Weapon Mastery but usable by monk weapons. That way at least his damage will be okay without unarmed strike...at some point. Anyway, I am at least taking Crane Style and that requires unarmed strike. Unless I am a monk so I guess that doesn't really matter. I am not sure what all needs unarmed strike but if nothing else it is useful. Unless we can hand wave some of the requirements down the road. That is up to the DM though.

What do you think about adding the abilities of Vow of Poverty from 3.5? That shores up a lot of the reliance the monk has on items to keep AC and attack power up.


Okay, too much.

No vows. That's the most broken thing ever!

Maybe except for an optimized bard, which deals +42d6 sonic damage per attack.

==//==

Beat in mind that some stuff designed for monks, have unharmed attack as prerequisite, to make it easier for monks get it, while difficulty for other classes.
They do that; to make that particular thing mostly doable to monks, since unharmed attack as pre-requisite does not matter.

==//==

I'll advice once more, just to make sure;

Please, don't sum bonus and count numbers. Try to create unique character with a strong and deep background.


Oh god no. Vow of poverty was way too good in 3.5.

We can work this out. Have faith. : )

As a side note, I love Monks and think they don't get enough love in this game.


@all

Sorry about the quality of my posts.
I've not been feeling well those last days, and I find no words to describe things as I want.
I don’t want, however, keep days without posting.


@Aku, It's ok, we understand. : )

@Zayne, Ok, I have a good base down and it just needs a little tweaking. But I need to head to bed. I'll get the full thing for you to look over tomorrow.


M

I found this and this interesting.

FYI I think I can join. I have motive for being in the army of Malaz and I think I have personality and history fleshed out in my head. I know its not a numbers game but I have gotten little input on story.


Zayne Iwatani wrote:
I found this and this interesting.

HA! I was already using his monk as a base! I love MA's monk variant.


Sloade Pitrogar wrote:
‘There goes Green Howl In Pain’.

Loved it.


M

Also, even if it was non-lethal, Sloade technically died.

"If a creature's nonlethal damage is equal to his total maximum hit points (not his current hit points), all further nonlethal damage is treated as lethal damage. This does not apply to creatures with regeneration. Such creatures simply accrue additional nonlethal damage, increasing the amount of time they remain unconscious."


See? He didn't even joined and already want Green Howl dead.

:O


@Zayne: There wasn't enough damage to kill him. Close though.
38 Damage was done.
The first 13 are non-lethal to his HP.
The next 13 take his HP to 0.
That's 26 damage, leaving 12 left.

He doesn't die until negative his con score, which is 15.

So he's at -12, and would have died in 3 more HP of damage.

Also, I think the class is ready. Let me know what you think:
Lifewalker


M

Will have to analyze it later but initial impression is interesting, especially the name and bonded staff (I think this is underutilized) but ultimately just as weak as an actual monk. I still have a poor to-hit an still lacking in AC. That and I am pretty sure speaking with animals, plants, and beasts isn't Denul.


Yeah, you really need to look closer at it.

Bonded staff basically lets you use a staff as if it were an unarmed strike for the things it qualifies for.

Ki Strike works like an enhancement bonus for a weapon, so it increases to hit and damage for unarmed strikes and your staff. Your staff also gets to count as the various materials for bypassing DR.

Your flurry attacks are always at your highest attack bonus, and at level 10 you get to standard move and attack twice at your highest bonus.

You Ki pool lets you spend ki to increase your damage and/or to hit for one round.

You also get the Ghost Hungry Monk abilities, which let you gain ki when downing an enemy or confirming a crit.

- - - - -

As far as AC, you get the standard AC + wis, you can spend ki to increase AC, you get flowing dodge, and Sense the Flow is going to work great with your crane feats, plus your redirection ability. And I still left in the DR you had before, just pushed it back a little.

- - - - -

Yes, the speaking with animals and all might not be strictly Denul, but I always liked that flavor for monk and saw it as a nice touch to throw back in.


M
Melasoul wrote:
You Ki pool lets you spend ki to increase your damage and/or to hit for one round.

Well no. I can only spend one Ki Point as a Swift Action. Or we can change the Expanded to allow two Ki Points and Greater to allow three.

Also, can monks normally use unarmed strike damage with monk weapons? Otherwise Bonded Staff is useless as I will hit harder without it.

And I would just as soon drop the animal speaking. He has no connection to animals and plants.


That's a good point about the swift action. I'll change the Expanded and Greater to allow for that.

No, normally monks can only use their unarmed strike damage with their fists, and I haven't changed that. That said, you actually do more damage (in a min/maxy way) with the staff, because there is nothing that says you can't flurry while two-handing it.

I'm almost done brushing up some quick numbers with this class vs an inquisitor.


Ok, I ran some quick numbers comparing that class against an Inquisitor at levels 5, 10, and 15.

For AC, you’re right in line with at levels 5 and 15, and slightly higher at level 10, without spending a ki point to increase AC or deciding to fight defensively. This is assuming you are fighting an enemy one-on-one. Your AC goes up the more enemies you fight at once.

And this does not include the Defensive Roll, your DR, your Redirection, or any feats you might take.

- - - - -
(Note: This is assuming the use of your staff, with the only staff related feat being Weapon Focus, Power Attack, and assuming that you are using it two handed. The inquisitor is also using a two-handed weapon, has power attack, is using his Judgement abilities, as well as Bane, as they become available).

For attack, at level 5 you are about equal to an inquisitor without spending ki. Spending a point to increase your attack by 4 brings you closer to a fighter.

At level 10, your DPS is about the same as an inquisitor without spending ki. Spending a point to increase your attack by 4, or to gain an extra flurry attack, then again brings you closer to a fighter

At level 15, your normal DPS falls behind the Inquisitor more than I’d like (~30% under). Spending a ki point on the attack bonus puts you even. Spending one on both the attack bonus and the extra flurry attack puts you ~22% over the inquisitor.

- - - - -

Honestly, you said you wanted tanky, not DPS. You keep up with an inquisitor, who is spending all of his per day abilities, without spending any ki points until the very end. And if you spend ki points you jump ahead in every category.


Male Human Mostly Commoner 47
Aku wrote:
See? He didn't even joined and already want Green Howl dead.

Ouch! Forget the officers trying to kill him, now his fellow recruits too? Hmmm we might have to work paranoia into Sloade's build! :)


M
Melasoul wrote:

That's a good point about the swift action. I'll change the Expanded and Greater to allow for that.

No, normally monks can only use their unarmed strike damage with their fists, and I haven't changed that. That said, you actually do more damage (in a min/maxy way) with the staff, because there is nothing that says you can't flurry while two-handing it.

I'm almost done brushing up some quick numbers with this class vs an inquisitor.

I don't see how two handing a staff makes that much difference. With this class, unarmed and staff gain all the same benefits except unarmed damage scales with level. Average damage caps out at 11 versus the staff's 3.


@Zayne

Also, due to game nature, don't forget that magic items will not be easy to find, and mostly, there'll be basically not that world of wondrous items to make you stronger. which in case, makes your class even better, since you get good without needing any outside stuff to help.


In DPS calculations two handing makes a huge difference, mostly because of an increase to hit and the bonus from power attack.

For example:

Assume a +4 str mod and level 12 (so 1d6 staff damage, 2d6 unarmed, BaB +9) and power attack.

Two-handing staff to hit: 9 BaB + 6 str - 2 pwr atk = 13
Two-handing staff damage: 3.5 base + 6 str + 6 pwr atk = 15.5

Fist to hit: 9 Bab + 4 str - 2 pwr atk = 11
Fist Damage: 7 + 4 str + 4 pwr atk = 15

-Against an AC 20 opponent-
Two-handing staff DPS: (1 - (.05 * (20 - 15 - 1))) * 15.5 = 10.85 DPS per attack
Fist DPS: (1 - (.05 * (20 - 13 - 1))) * 11 = 9 DPS per attack

That's ~14% more damage. Now, this is a simple example, but as you add on greater stat bonuses and multiple attacks, that 14% builds up faster than it might seem.

- - - - -

Without typing out the whole spreadsheet, here is the absolute and percent difference per round lower the fists are vs two-handing staff:
--Level 5--
8.4 DPS (~52%)

--Level 10--
13.725 DPS (~39%)

--Level 15--
27.09 DPS (~38%)

- - - - -

Also, any suggestions on a fluffy thing to use instead of the talking to animals, plants, and rocks thing?


M

Two handing doesn't add to hit, only to damage.

"Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon (see FAQ at right for more information.)"

Right?

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