Fighter vs Spellcaster Grudge match (Inactive)

Game Master Balancer

Place for me to keep track of wins/losses and spectators to heckle.

I have my 20th level fighter submitted.

Popcorn ready and awaiting the fun!

Dot

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What are the level ranges for submissions?

The original was any level. I believe the two submissions so far are both level 20.

Also, can we get some description of the arena. The OP set it as 20' wide per character level but nothing more than that. Are we doing this on a flat open arena floor or do we want to add some terrain to it and make things marginally more interesting?

I believe it had a ceiling cap of 100'. We may well need to know how whether or not people can head underground and if so how far.

After the fighters get their asses kicked at 20th-level, I want to see how the matches at 1st-level go. I'm also curious about 7th-level.

Dot.

I don't want to have spoilers for the fight but i was mainly curious about this:

"The owl casts quickened greater invisibility on himself and Jadis"

How can a quickened greater invisibility work on more than one subject?

Unless I'm just missing something.

You are missing something, all shall be revealed after the contest.

I have created a basic roll20 arena table for anyone who wants to track positions more exactly. You can access it using THIS LINK

This is very entertaining. I like the dramatic flair the characters have!

Ok, now I'm confused. Having died, I now opened the spoiler for why I couldn't see them. Why would I not see the caster still if they used greater invisibility? See invis still sees through that.

Ok, now I'm confused. Having died, I now opened the spoiler for why I couldn't see them. Why would I not see the caster still if they used greater invisibility? See invis still sees through that.

Mind Blank

I guess devices covers magic items that let you discern invisible as if see invisible, but doesn't actually say you are under the effects of see invisible. Also, minor, but shouldn't you have included the familiar being in your space if visible at the start of the match? I was just following the assumption of not mentioned not present, as there are options other than familiars to choose from.

You are missing something, all shall be revealed after the contest.

So what was with the Quickened Greater Invisibility? How did it work on you and your familiar?

andreww wrote:

You are missing something, all shall be revealed after the contest.

So what was with the Quickened Greater Invisibility? How did it work on you and your familiar?

My guess: Owls can't normally cast, so its probably an improved familiar, that cast quickened greater invisibility on itself, followed by casting a normal greater invisibility on the sorceress. Then the sorceress took her turn.

Also I'll write up a 20th Fighter and submit it by later tonight. (Assuming Balancer wishes to continue) if anyone wants to have a showdown.

It looks fun.

I'm working on a rogue and a monk now. It is kind of fun, even expecting to lose. Also learning a lot more high level caster tricks (like mind blank!)

Brain in a Jar wrote:

andreww wrote:

You are missing something, all shall be revealed after the contest.

So what was with the Quickened Greater Invisibility? How did it work on you and your familiar?

My guess: Owls can't normally cast, so its probably an improved familiar, that cast quickened greater invisibility on itself, followed by casting a normal greater invisibility on the sorceress. Then the sorceress took her turn.

The only improved familiars that have Greater Invisibility it's only self, as far as i know.

But even then it was only mentioned as a single instance of Quickened Greater Invisibility that worked on more than one subject. That's why i'm curious.

Also for this is it only Fighters or can it be any martial(non-caster)?

Round 2?

Also for this is it only Fighters or can it be any martial(non-caster)?

It is any form of caster so any form of martial is fine with me. I define martial as someone with no Spells class feature. The odd SLA, Major Magic etc type stuff still leaves you as a martial in my book but taking an archetype turning you into a 4 or 6 level caster (like the rogue or fighter ones?) brings you out of the category.

As I may end up facing you in the arena I shall keep my trick under my hat for now.

Also, you said the familiar couldn't fail the check. What about if it had a +4 to the check?

Brain in a Jar wrote:

Also for this is it only Fighters or can it be any martial(non-caster)?

It is any form of caster so any form of martial is fine with me. I define martial as someone with no Spells class feature. The odd SLA, Major Magic etc type stuff still leaves you as a martial in my book but taking an archetype turning you into a 4 or 6 level caster (like the rogue or fighter ones?) brings you out of the category.

As I may end up facing you in the arena I shall keep my trick under my hat for now.

Fair enough.

I've got an idea of what happened with that. But I'll be patient and find out for my self. :)

Also, you said the familiar couldn't fail the check. What about if it had a +4 to the check?

That would not have made any difference.

So round 2? I'm curious how a full attack would have worked out.

Sure, assume you survived and take your second turn. You do need to make the will saves against the dazing wwalls. I am little surprised that your health is so low.

Or did you mean you wanted a second match?

Second match, just instead of rushing you making the full attack.

Lets keep the mechanics discussion in the discussion thread. Fights in the arena.

I also agree on the duration, should have asked for round by round, stopping you when the time stop round out. Not that it would have made a difference, but it could have depending on when the time runs out.

Regardless, I'm curious how the full attack would resolve. I'll post as if we re-started and throw that at you and see how you do.

I'm curious how you have more than a 36 AC, not counting armor and shield (or their enhancements). 5 deflection, 5 natural armor, and what +16 dodge?

Nice use of paragon surge though. Great flexibility for a sorcerer with that. Do you have an actual wizard you submitted? I think wizards are much weaker at this type of challenge than the flexible sorcerer.

I'm curious how you have more than a 36 AC, not counting armor and shield (or their enhancements). 5 deflection, 5 natural armor, and what +16 dodge?

Natural 1 always misses, right?

Tarantula wrote:

I'm curious how you have more than a 36 AC, not counting armor and shield (or their enhancements). 5 deflection, 5 natural armor, and what +16 dodge?

Natural 1 always misses, right?

Yep! Haha, didn't even look at the roll, just the total. That'll teach me!

I'm curious how you have more than a 36 AC, not counting armor and shield (or their enhancements). 5 deflection, 5 natural armor, and what +16 dodge?

Jadis has significant dex benefit and keeps her dex even while flatfooted.

Nice use of paragon surge though. Great flexibility for a sorcerer with that. Do you have an actual wizard you submitted? I think wizards are much weaker at this type of challenge than the flexible sorcerer.

I don't really play wizards, I was working on an arcanist.

Is there anything to prevent:

Moment of prescience applied to initiative (to go first for sure)

followed by Limited Wish (Geas) for a no save auto win?

Is there anything to prevent:

Moment of prescience applied to initiative (to go first for sure)

Arguably initiative isn't an opposed dex check and therefore moment doesn't work.

Geas to do what? It doesn't even penalize you until 24 hours of not following it. Go ahead and make a caster, see how they do vs the fighter.

Initiative checks aren't opposed, so MoP does nothing for it.

It only penalizes you if you are unable to follow the geas (such as being locked up in jail) if you are capable of following it, you simply must.

"The geased creature must follow the given instructions until the geas is completed, no matter how long it takes."

"If the subject is prevented from obeying the geas/quest for 24 hours, it takes a -3 penalty to each of its ability scores. Each day, another -3 penalty accumulates, up to a total of -12. No ability score can be reduced to less than 1 by this effect. The ability score penalties are removed 24 hours after the subject resumes obeying the geas/quest."

This is offset by the fact that it normal has a 10 minute casting time. Limited wish gets around this for 1500 gold.

And what are you forcing them to do? Like I said, give it a try, see how it goes.

Also I don't want to derail the thread with rules arguments, but Mark Seifter is at least of the opinion that MoP should work on initiative checks link, for what it is worth.

And what are you forcing them to do? Like I said, give it a try, see how it goes.

Fair enough, one must be careful in ones wording ;)

An initiative check is a Dexterity check.

Your Stealth check is opposed by the Perception check of anyone who might notice you.

If you control the trailing rope by succeeding at an opposed Strength check while holding it, the entangled creature can move only within the limits that the rope allows.

Pretty clear when checks are opposed and when they are not. Initiative is not. Mark also said he would not be upset with a GM who ruled that it was not.

When I get home I may upload my sorcerer, this is a pretty cool thread.

I'm working on a monk now. Should be interesting.

Initiative wrote:

An initiative check is a Dexterity check.

Stealth wrote:

Your Stealth check is opposed by the Perception check of anyone who might notice you.

Net wrote:

If you control the trailing rope by succeeding at an opposed Strength check while holding it, the entangled creature can move only within the limits that the rope allows.

Pretty clear when checks are opposed and when they are not. Initiative is not. Mark also said he would not be upset with a GM who ruled that it was not.

For the sake of this thread, lets say that it is not. There are plenty of other good tricks out there. ;)

I'm working on a monk now. Should be interesting.

Sounds good, Ill upload my sorcerer in a few hours.