I do feel compelled to point out that you still get a save against Silence, even if it's cast on someone else. Otherwise you could auto-kill enemy spellcasters about six different ways.Moraum grapples we have silence on Edmin
Zen nrings him to a back room
They only get the save if you target them with silence, however. There's no save if we cast the silence on say, Edmin, and he chooses to fail his save.
my understanding is the pathfinder nerf to that tactic is to make it a fullround to cast
my understanding is the pathfinder nerf to that tactic is to make it a fullround to cast
And to make it last 1round.level instead of 10m/ level.
That's why I took silent spell, doesn't really bother me that much, I say I cast it on me. Once we have him grappled and in silence we can kill him in 3 rounds I believe.
If he is grappled in the suprise round he gets no AOO. We just need to jump him once he walks in the house. You slam the door behind him and I start casting. Clerics with little armor and that can't cast spells are fairly limited fighter.
I am trying to find an official ruling but even as far back as 3.5 Jason (lead designer) said that that is not accurate. only the target gets the save. The reasoning is that unlike a fireball you can step out of the area. Also the save would imply that if you fail then the effect stay on you if you leave the area and that is not accurate.
It is even built into the free game day module from 2 years ago as a tactic of a stone with silence cast on it thrown by an assassin. That is how it is intended to work though sadly I cannot find a dev commenting on it recently.
If you want to play it the other way that is ok with me, but I have a feeling we would not have bought the scroll in taht case
No, it does not affect you unless you fail a Will save. Casting it on Bob and having Bob get close to the caster, casting it on a familiar or companion and having them get close to the caster, casting it on a pebble and tossing the pebble in the general direction of the caster... all fine, but he still gets a Will save.
Wow in that case..my vote is that this is going to be a TPK but amusing either way. I suppose we'll see! A cleric failing a will save isn't something that happens frequently. Also, with this knowledge, can I alter Jax's spells known? I'd have prepped slightly differently.
Or rather, as a side bit, is there a place to buy scrolls in town? He would have gone to purchase a scroll of invisibility on Day 9 before the attack.
Even if that is how it works one cleric is not going to wipe us. action economy will win out. With luck he will not see anything coming
or as zimu likes to say we will be playing Jade Regent very soon
My read of the spell allows anyone who does not want the spell to affect them to make a save, whether or not they are the center of the spell. Otherwise one could easily cast it on a pebble and toss it next to the local archmage without any consequences.
It is a spell made for a Rod of Persistence.
im in trouble with that roll. DM is not going to let me make another character when he kills me :(
as i said i am fine with whatever, but i think that is how it is intended to work, especially considering it shows up in recent modules. I think we can crush him no matter what.
Even if that is how it works one cleric is not going to wipe us. action economy will win out. With luck he will not see anything coming
I'm not afraid of the cleric, I'm afraid of the trouble he'll bring down on us when he cries out for help.
Silence in 3.5 worked like that, Judge. I feel its much, much weaker in PF since it allows a save for each person in the area. Casters usually have good Will saves and its a spell designed to target casters...hmn.
Well we fight him in the back room with closed doors. So robe has to hear and so robe of import has to arrive and fight if none of you have your alias face up we are fine
Well in that case maybe we don't use silence and just hammer him with massive damage. Seems like a waste of the gp
Silence is the way to go. Even if the father makes the save, it will keep any other noise to a minimum. No sounds of swords on shields, no crunch as Morsum crushes his skull.
Ok. Watch he is gonna roll a nat 20 and find me out
Note that even with the Will save, Silence is still damn powerful for a 2nd level spell. It's an area effect save-or-suck that can completely shut down enemy spellcasters. And that's in addition to its other uses (i.e., murdering people).
Note further that this interpretation cuts both ways. When you're 14th level and rampaging across the countryside spreading death and devastation in your wake, do you really want to be worrying about 3rd level casters throwing pebbles at you?
Its not scary on a pebble in most scenarioes though. Its only a 20' radius which is less than 1 move action. Since a caster doesn't need to full-attack, they can just move + cast for the most part.
Not really arguing for you to change, mind, simply stating why it is run otherwise in 3.5. I'm nearly 100% certain PF has ruled the same way you interpreted it.
Silence is the way to go. Even if the father makes the save, it will keep any other noise to a minimum. No sounds of swords on shields, no crunch as Morsum crushes his skull.
Would it though? If it doesn't affect anything on him when (if) he makes his save, then the sound of weapons on his armor (if he has any, which I don't think he has on atm :D) or the sound of his weapon on ours would still make sound. It may be better not to use it since it allows Cimu, Jax, Dren, Xen and you to still cast spells. If he doesn't make the save, its good. If he does and say, all the casters fail theirs, are we nerfing ourselves or helping ourselves? If we're going to rely on a will save, I'd be more comfy with Dren's armada of Hold Persons than a silence scroll.
It hasn't. The bulk of the forums don't agree and as I said they just released a module where that is the tactic.
Not arguing either but if you are a pfs player it is good to know
It hasn't. The bulk of the forums don't agree and as I said they just released a module where that is the tactic.
Not arguing either but if you are a pfs player it is good to know
Ah, I see you're right. I had thought I read somewhere about it being adjudicated differently in PF, but there was a Paizo module where there was an evil caster using Silence on pebbles and using it to assassinate them. http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pgiy?Silence-and-saves#33
But yeah, pretty sure both Xen and my point is: It looks like its mostly this way, but Dm's game, Dm's interpretations stand and we aren't disputing it. Not every game is going to use every rule the same way, after all.
True that.
Cуровую is getting a writing sample from the cleric.
Jax I need you before we attack Edmin's long lost friend.
Xen VERY IMPORTANT. When the cleric is drunk I need you to chat about the commander. I want to know how the cleric addresses his friend.
Zimu I can only do that if it fits my lie. I don't see how it does
What spells do you need Cуровую to prepare, she already cast Disguise Self for the day and will memorize some Invisibility for Jax and any who may need it.
Zimu I can only do that if it fits my lie. I don't see how it does
You are bantering at dinner having drinks talking about becoming an officer in the fort's army. It's very easy to slip in.
Just let it slip out and ask what the cleric thinks of the commander as a person and leader of men.
How does one not talk about the commander come to think about it? Its one thing that you should talk about.
I think I am just going to leave it as is. Stick w my bluff and not risk it
Just ask about the commander, that's all. You have another part to play. I REALLY NEED YOU to just get him talking about the commander just a few bits.
Yes. Makes sense. Thankfully I have not been in her presence.
Or rather, as a side bit, is there a place to buy scrolls in town? He would have gone to purchase a scroll of invisibility on Day 9 before the attack.
I can memorize the spell for you, now go look at the gnome.
Well in that case maybe we don't use silence and just hammer him with massive damage. Seems like a waste of the gp
I am not worried about the gp. We can get another scroll if we need it later.
I am worried that the other casters (us!) will fail our saves.
Dinner and a play w the wife tonight
Have fun.
Work tonight :(
Work tomorrow night :(
But I get to go with Jessica Nigri and Meg Turney, and Alodia Gosiengfiao and cosplay girls to New York comic con tomorrow yaaay!
Let's look at this optimistically and say we will level up after we fight the cleric (and survive) we take the take the patrol down (and survive), and we frame one captain after killing the other (and survive).
So we level up after all that.
Roll hit dice.
Pick skills and new spells.
Say
Fly, Fireball
Bluff +1
Diplomacy +1
Escape Artist +1
Knowledge Geography +1
Knowledge Local +1
Perception +1
Survival +1
Then DM TPKs us all as we storm the fort.
Welcome to Jade Regent.
I am already in Jade Regent, I vote for Wrath of the Righteous!
How is Bref doing?
I prefer avoiding TPK.
I prefer avoiding TPK.
If we escape murdering the cleric without calling attention to ourselves, I think we're fine.
Jax will cast alter self showing up as a halfling. Cimu has disguise prepared for a few others. Dren can use his alter self trick. We should be alright.
Worst case scenario, all casters prepare or have one scroll of invisibility and we can hightail it away.
But that would put the fort on alert.
It's time to get serious my boys. Take out the cleric, fast as possible. Then intelligently cover up his disappearance. Followed by our other schemes and plots in careful succession.
May our luck hold with us a little longer.
I still think that leaving evidence that it was one of the captains, and discrete evidence (forgery people) pointing back to Ms. Mott and her lover.
well 24 will have to do.
That will do Xen, that will do.
I am out for the day. No posting until tonight.
Guess what you missed.
whatever the party decides to do. I have no horse in this race as to what to do with him
Guys please READ, we need to cover up for the missing cleric.
We can
1. Send Xen Disguised as the cleric to go to one of the lesser clerics or to a guard of the watch. He will instruct the cleric or guard to deliver a note to the commander. The note will read he needs to go to a town a few days away (Knowledge Geography +8) and he is on a mission of mercy to redeem an old friend (no names?) he will ask the commander to send a squad of men (timed for the day of the bugbear attack) if the cleric is not back. The additional BENEFIT of this is Xen or the Judge can come back before the bugbear attack and masquerade as the cleric and get into the high priority spots in the fort with no difficulty.
2. We plant information that either Mott killed the cleric because his wife was confessing to the cleric about being adulterous and kept it from him, or go the other way and plant information that Edderly killed the cleric because he threatened of exposing the wife unless she ended the affair.
3. The MOST DANGEROUS plan, we send Xen or someone with high Bluff to masquerade as the cleric for the next few days before the bugbear attack. Giving him access to the fort now but very dangerous for a prolonged deception.