I feel gameplay would flow better if you DM-screened it and then we hand-waved the bargaining when we get back to the city. Bargaining is fun to do in person, but drags on a PbP.
Sorry about the appraising...I tend to let the person with the best skill do things like that, it seems more realistic to me.
Also would prefer the person with the highest skill to make the appraise check, but Aardvark DM asked for the check at least 3 time and no one other then Chephen made the check.
in the past, I have seen a character used to just track found loot and its value. This could be a character name like (Found Loot or Mummy's Mask Loot). I have even seen link google spread sheets.
my opinion would be to make an appraise check when the item is found, and then leave the responsibility of tracking it on the players. When we sell/trade the loot, this is the value we have set for the item.
A couple things.
First my apologies for not having posts up this past week and a half or so. I went back home to visit family. I let Aardvark know but forgot to post in here. I am back now and shouldnt have any issues.
As for Appraise my guess is I probably have the highest at a +9. So from here out I will do my best to make these appraise checks for the group. And I might look into creating a character for tracking loot like previously mentioned.
I'd also like to put in my 2 copper:
I didn't make an appraisal post as Surubi for a couple of reasons.
First, in character: Surubi is used to being a guide--that means 'he' shows people around the tombs etc., and those other people do their appraisals; Surubi would be happy to assist (and isn't bad, though also isn't good at appraisal) but unless someone asks 'him' to help in character, it's just not something 'he' would think of.
Second, two out of character reasons:
1) I feel like (and PLEASE do correct me if I'm wrong) Surubi has lately been doing a lot-lot-lot of posting relative to others, and I don't want to dominate the thread (if you all would prefer I post more/less, please say so; I do enjoy playing Surubi but I want all of us to enjoy this).
2) Brennan is the character who is probably most concerned about "loot" (at least as far as I can tell), and he posted Tuesday that he would be mostly incommunicado due to business travel through this weekend, so I felt like waiting for Brennan to get his say would be best. (I probably should have posted something to this effect in the discussion thread much earlier to make that feeling clear).
Now that those things are out of the way, onto the "my preferences for loot etc":
Appraise checks should be made by the parties most interested in appraising them (in character), or be asked by other characters to make them.
If we do go with some other system, maybe the characters can agree that Elneiros is the best at it, and he (possibly with Brennan's help?) can do all appraisals of goods (whether Aardvark DM rolls or we have the player(s) roll each time is irrelevant to me in a PBP, as is whether there is one roll for everything, one per category, one per item, etc).
I think tracking loot with a google doc is a great idea, as long as someone is willing to keep it up-to-date... that of course becomes the problem. Also I would prefer links to such a document be in the discussion thread, rather than the gameplay thread.
Sorry for the minimal posting. Brennan no appraise skill points. He's really only interested in coins, gems, weapons, and other shiny things. And hurting things. He really likes to hurt things.
I've never heard of the profle for loot, but kind of like the idea. Because of this, what I will do is track loot under my alias (so I don't have to worry about any player loss taking the loot lists with them).
I've seen the google docs used for this, but since I often post at work I try to minimize all the windows/programs I need open to run the game.
Okay, so are you guys taking everything appraised? Is there anything from the list you don't intend to take?
Also, are there any items you wish to sell somewhere specific, or just vendor loot all of it?
Leave the tapestry, cats, diarama, and statues, take the rest, is my vote. I'm not very particular about where to sell anything, as long as we garner fair value.
If we are leaving for the day, then anything relatively portable (probably not the tapestries until we have a bag of holding) should come out.
Are we leaving for the day? What time is it? How long have we been down here? What are the rules for leaving? Do you forfeit your exclusive right to rob ...ahem...I mean recover artifacts from your designated location if you leave?
I'd say the doors were opened at about 7 AM, took about a half hour to get to the tomb, and another half hour to cover the top floor.
Maybe an hour total before the new members arrived, and another half hour of going through gathering and appraising. Maybe 15 more to haul it all up the shaft.
It's probably close to 10 am.
Only those with the token for each site are allowed at any site. If your team doesn't draw it, you aren't allowed in (exception made to include the new recruits).
There is roughly a three day span between each lottery for sites.
So, mid-morning and you guys want to bail already?
Haha, well, put in that perspective, maybe not. Then again, seeing 3 companions die horribly and 2 others nearly so, it might be enough mind-trauma for one day. I wouldn't mind getting everything to the top and then diving in some more.
I think we just get a load of things up to the top (perhaps stash them behind the big stone we rolled aside to get in here?) and then head back down.
Given my statement of tracking loot, from this point forward I will only be tracking what is claimed by the players as having been taken, and prices will only exist for what has been appraised. Also, I will still need specifics along the lines of "2 sets of leather and the short sword", vice "Everything but the heavy stuff".
I would like to make a point about how I see the pace of a game. When the scene requires a map or the enemies/NPC's acting, I accept that it is wholly on me, and admit I have dropped the ball on moving forward at times. When the scene is all RP or IC decision-making, that pace is set by the players.
Given that, are we ready to go back in? Or are you guys wanting to sell stuff? Brennan is ready to go back in.
Ready to go back in!
Continue on in.
I just found out I will be leaving tomorrow for a 4 day trip. Please carry on without me. I will post if I can, but connectivity is likely to be limited.
I know people have personal lives and commitments, and from other pbp games I have been in pbp is low on the commitment scale, but can we have some bot action for Andrei Constantin? I don't see a post on any of his toons since Nov 8th.
This is probably my biggest complaint about php games... lack of commitment once they get into a game or the decency to let people know if you are dropping out/can't play for some reason.
Sorry for my recent silence. I have a business trip coming up next week and have been trying to prepare. I promise I will post tomorrow. I may have more time for posting next week depending on how good the wifi is at the hotel (since I will have nothing but time at the hotel).
Okay, so I was skimming the forums, and ran across these two gems:
Painlord's Guide to PbP GMing: Make Your World a Better Place
Building a Better Doomed Hero: Painlord's Advanced Play-by-Post Play
I would suggest that anyone playing PbP read them, as they are quite inclusive.
They got me thinking about what bogs me down when it comes to keeping my pace up. I think any time I have to update the map, I balk and stall. So, in the end, I'm looking to find any better ways of mapping, but I need to be able to access it both at work and at home. Also, I really don't like the homemade colored blocks of drawing it in googledocs.
Does anyone have any good ideas for mapping, or any other things to help maintain a better pace?
For mapping, not really. You could try just giving a room description for any room with no overt threat, which might cut down on map updates.
Also, Painlord's Rule of 2 is quite effective. Granted, for major decisions you should have party buy-in, but for things like advancing to the next room, I would go ahead and move things along quickly.
I am currently running 3 PbP games on this board, and have had multiple PbP games running for the last 8 years. My longest running game just finished the 2nd module of Second Darkness, and has been going since Mar 2012. Everyone has their own playstyle and GM style, but since you asked for advice, here goes...
I make the maps in photoshop and use MapTool for updates. This gives me coordinates, Line of Sight, lighting, and vision. It takes a little while to set up, but it's only once per map. In round updates are quite quick. In fact, you can even (usually) just cpoy the maps from the PDF and put them into MapTool. (RPTools is another option, but you have to pay to have access to the full suite of tools)
Map example of scouting a hallway
Also, I am afraid that your own rules of "if you don't explicitly do it, you didn't do it" are working against you here. I know as a GM it sucks to be pushing the game, but the fact is you've got 5-6 people on different schedules, each of whom is waiting on somebody to respond to. Also, repetitive actions are just that, repetitive. You can use that to "macro" certain things.
For example, Brennan and Suri check every door for traps, then unlock it if it is locked. Do you really need to wait 2 days for us to post that for every door before telling us what is on the other side? Can we not simply say "unless otherwise posted, Brennan and Suri will do this..."? Any time you are waiting for a response is time that no one is posting.
Promote flex time. We use flex time a lot in my games to allow me to move things along, and the players to backfill RP and certain decisions (usually purchases). that way I don't have to wait a full week to make sure everyone is done in town before moving on. It works when you are in the dungeon as well.
In addition to the above, ALL of painlord's advice is good. In the end, PbP is a give-and-take relationship between the players and the GM. You don't want to have to tell the story all by yourself, that's why you have players, but at the same time you are the one with the vision of hos things will go and what you want the players to accomplish.
Okay, I've been toying with the google drive for sharing mapping. I attached the map in the usual link.
Could a couple of you go in and see if you're able to move your pieces around? (EDIT: Ideally to where you declared you were moving.)
If so, I will start using this for mapping. Before, I would have to take pictures of the drawn map, uplaod to Flikr, then post the link. The process was longer and more involved.
I'm hoping this will take some of the map load off of me so I'm not dreading it and slowing myself down.
Yep, it works fine. I have another DM who uses this method for his maps.
PS: Feel free to give me the finger for the above advice. I know I have been a little...unresponsive in this game. I'm trying to be a better player :)
I was able to move Chephren with no problems.
I make the maps in photoshop and use MapTool for updates. This gives me coordinates, Line of Sight, lighting, and vision. It takes a little while to set up, but it's only once per map. In round updates are quite quick. In fact, you can even (usually) just cpoy the maps from the PDF and put them into MapTool. (RPTools is another option, but you have to pay to have access to the full suite of tools)
I'm familiar with your maps (I am that saucy thief staring down the barrel of a sputtering statue, after all). Sadly, I tried playing around with Maptools once before, and my dumb butt couldn't seem to figure it out. Regardless, I am not able to access it or Roll20 at work.
Also, I am afraid that your own rules of "if you don't explicitly do it, you didn't do it" are working against you here. I know as a GM it sucks to be pushing the game, but the fact is you've got 5-6 people on different schedules, each of whom is waiting on somebody to respond to. Also, repetitive actions are just that, repetitive. You can use that to "macro" certain things.
For example, Brennan and Suri check every door for traps, then unlock it if it is locked. Do you really need to wait 2 days for us to post that for every door before telling us what is on the other side? Can we not simply say "unless otherwise posted, Brennan and Suri will do this..."? Any time you are waiting for a response is time that no one is posting.
I understand this, but I think glossing over it too much risks taking agency away from the players, or even removes the value of certain investments.
Like appraise for example. For the sake of expedience, many GM's just tell the value of things. I think this negates the appraise skill entirely (and anyone's investment in it).
The other thing is the perceptions, as you mentioned. Are you suggesting I roll them for you guys, or are you merely saying the action of moving forward after you guys search? I think I can skip waiting for you guys to say you open the door upon finding nothing, but I'm reluctant to roll anything for the players. As a player, there is something about agency over my own rolls that feels stolen when someone rolls for me.
Promote flex time. We use flex time a lot in my games to allow me to move things along, and the players to backfill RP and certain decisions (usually purchases). that way I don't have to wait a full week to make sure everyone is done in town before moving on. It works when you are in the dungeon as well.
Actually never been a big fan of flex time. We tried it once in one I was playing in, and sadly it just mixed the scenes making them more confusing in a text-based environment and begs the question of resources available at the secondary scene, based on what ends up happening in the first.
I fully understand, I am my own worst enemy when it comes to what hinders my pacing (as it is often due to my own lack of motivation or required input from the group). I can say, though, that I will try to adopt the rule of 2, or in my case the rule of half. Once I have heard from at least half the group I will go ahead and move forward.
I do ask though, that if people are waiting for others to do something in game, at least post an IC saying that you are waiting for X to happen before doing whatever. That way it at least lets me or the one waited on what others are looking for before they act. That way, with the rule of half, if 3 post that they are waiting for someone to act, by that time I can take that action for them.
Aardvark, I won't speak for anyone else, but I think I'm with Brennan on this point. Any kind of passive roll (like Perception), I don't mind you rolling for us. The dicebot is impartial, so it doesn't matter if it's you or me rolling. And I think it can be assumed that we are at least trying to be aware of our surroundings and what is going on.
Just my two cents, though. Just those changes you mentioned should increase the game speed a good bit. :)
I know I have a REAL bad habit of waiting forever for every last person to chime in. Then I feel bad for asking people to post more frequently, because I'm just as guilty of delays if not more.
I'm hoping the new ease of mapping, and trying to convince myself to move on even though I don't have everybody's input, will work to keep us going forward at an even keel.
My take on the active vs passive depends on exactly that. Active vs passive. I mention this under my profile. Noticing something about your environment is passive, those I'm fine rolling. Looking for something is an active decision made by the character. I think those need to be declared and rolled by the player.
I will make an exception, though, in my attempt to push. I will roll them in the absence of player action, due to the rule of half I'm trying to adopt.
Also, if they are becoming par for the course (e.g. "Brennan searches every door or opening he comes across, unless he just witnessed it being used risk free.") then I guess I can start to build macros for baseline actions.
In light of the recent discussion, and my intentions, I intend to pick up the pace. All I ask is that you guys stay with me (it's not like I go super-fast, I just want to motivate myself and be motivated to go a healthy bit faster). To that end, part of the advice/discussion I linked is about tough love.
That means, if I do not feel I'm getting enough involvement out of someone, I may ask that they ramp it up. If they still don't deliver, I may have to ask that they excuse themselves from the game. I hate to do it, but I recognize that some of my delay comes from waiting on everyone to post, and sometimes just one person's silence may be the thing that's causing me to drag.
(EDIT: That said it's pretty clear to me that we lost Andrei. He has not replied to my PM and has been quite active in another game. As such, I will GMPC him for combat, up through the rest of this tomb. During that time I will be looking for a replacement. If you have any suggestions for players, let me know. I'm not looking for just reliability, but post quality as well.)
On another note,
My initiative tracker. Would everyone prefer it if the order never changed and I just highlight whose turn it is somehow, or are you guys fine with the way I cycle it?
I've had no complaints about the initiative tracker.
I am fine with however you want to do it. It is working fine as it is, but if you want to try something different, by all means.
Guys, I moved the link to the short description. That way it shows up at the top of each page (since I can't fit it in with the maps). if you haven't done so yet, please check out the link and let me know if it does or doesn't work for you. It should be read only, as I have some hidden columns in there for my eyes only.
Also, as a point of preference, would you guys want me to put the houserules up where the loot link is, or leave them in the campaign tab?
I can pull the loot link up, but it's huge. Any way you can zoom out? The rules are fine where they are, in my opinion.
Everything is fine with me also.
Happy New Year All...
I am ready to get back at this game after the long Holiday season.
I can pull the loot link up, but it's huge. Any way you can zoom out? The rules are fine where they are, in my opinion.
Not sure what you mean by huge. What device are you using to look at it? I tried both my phone and laptop (not signed in) and it seemed a little bigger on my phone, but not unwieldy.
Ohjesusgodsorry! I left for Christmas to my parents' place across the country then new years at my in-laws (they're Russian and so they do Christmas at new years). I got back today and will be back with a vengeance (or possibly with my hat in my hands)! But I totally spaced on them while I was away because I didn't have my laptop and thus didn't have a paizo window open all the time to refresh!
My heartfelt apologies to everyone! I'm back though and will be checking thoroughly!
No worries Surubi... hope you had a great holiday.
I second Chephren, Surubi.
Aardvark, pulling it up on Google Chrome on a PC. I just got a new desktop, so I'll try it on that tonight and see.
Malik, I checked out spreadsheet on IE, Chrome and Firefox and they all look about the same size. Make sure you browser window is not zoomed in.
The laptop I was on is screwy. I'm sure it will be fine when I check it out on the desktop tonight.
To answer some of the stuff that's in here prior to disappearing:
the loot page works fine and linking it that way seems convenient.
The map works (and I've been moving Surubi as you have probably noticed)
I'm on the fence about the macroing and assuming business. On one end of the spectrum, Aardvark gmpc'ed Surubi perfectly in my (sorry!!) absence. On the other, even when all players are present, we are often less than perfectly efficient, sometimes not working together and sometimes not making full use of detect magic or whatever other skill and sometimes the best man for the task spaces out and others fill in. With a (reasonable) GM macro, that would rarely or never happen, and I think that may take something away from the game.
As for replacing Andrei, a maybe crazy thought: now that the better part of a year has passed in real life, maybe Wandering Wastrel might want back in? On the other hand, he hasn't reappeared on the forums, so maybe not... As I said, maybe crazy. Other than that, no real ideas as I'm only in two games.
Okay, we are very close to a great point to bring in another player to fill the spot left by Andrei.
That said, before I make a recruitment thread, now is the time for anyone that doesn't feel like they really want to continue to speak up.
I figure the best opportunity to excuse oneself would be now. Not that I'm aware of anyone wanting to do so, or think that anyone should do so, I just want to say that the time is one of the few ideal times to do so.
If you are staying, please, say as much so I know I've heard from everyone.
When I put up the recruitment, I will let you all know. I would like feedback on any recruits you either favor or have had previous issue with. Send this to me via PM, as I know I read the discussion threads of recruitments to see what they say when I'm applying. I have seen other people modify their entries based on it as well. To avoid this, I would prefer any comments PM'd.
Staying. I haven't gotten to stab nearly enough people yet.
I am staying... I really want to see this archetype in action.
I will be staying. Having a good time, so far.
I'm staying. I really enjoy this character and this game.