Paladin questions


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I know I've seen these questions come up before, and I don't think there were definite answers, but I thought I'd ask again in case I missed something.

1. When a paladin detects evil, do outside observers know he's doing something? Are there somatic components that would make it obvious he's casting, or is it something he can do quietly without being seen?

2. If a paladin attempts to smite something that isn't evil, then the smite is wasted, per the Core Rulebook. Does the paladin know that? Or would he believe he's still trying to smite that creature?


1) It says he uses it, as the spell, not as a spell like ability. It retains its verbal and somatic components to my knowledge.

2) Up to the GM, to my knowledge there is nothing that says either way.

Edit: oops Chaos is correct. My bad. lol


1. Detect Evil is a spell like ability, so it has no verbal, somatic, material, or focus component, but it does threaten attacks of opportunities like spell casting. So you would probably see the Paladin staring intently and if you had knowledge of his actual magical abilities you might be able to put 2 and 2 together.

2. No idea RAW, but I would say yeah he knows as it's what Paladins do. They probably know the effects well enough or perhaps even have enough of an intuitive understanding of how it works to know when it just doesn't. Or a "hey why isn't that guy vaporized by my divine light" after an attack should do it.


The answer to 1 is as Thomas says.

The answer to 2 is a bit more convoluted. Essentially, if the paladin thinks the enemy is evil, and attempts a smite, he will continue that smite. There are many scenarios where an enemy could detect as evil and still not be evil, such as the Infernal Healing spell. Knowing how much damage you are actually doing to an enemy to try and extrapolate whether or not an ability is working in them is covered by the rules however. It is called meta gaming and isn't allowed.


I would say yes because paladins have smite as a limited resource. Good luck finding one that is willing to waste it.


Out of curiosity do you have a specific source that clarifies Paladin's Detect Evil, which is marked as a SLA, does not function as a SLA? I ask because the ability saying a paladin "can use detect evil, as the spell," sounds a lot like the ability just saying "this ability functions as detect evil."

Grand Lodge

Fromper wrote:


1. When a paladin detects evil, do outside observers know he's doing something? Are there somatic components that would make it obvious he's casting, or is it something he can do quietly without being seen?

It's really hard to hide the patented Paladin Stare.


chaoseffect wrote:
Out of curiosity do you have a specific source that clarifies Paladin's Detect Evil, which is marked as a SLA, does not function as a SLA? I ask because the ability saying a paladin "can use detect evil, as the spell," sounds a lot like the ability just saying "this ability functions as detect evil."
PRD wrote:
Detect Evil (Sp): At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell. A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on one individual or object, the paladin does not detect evil in any other object or individual within range.

Emphasis mine. The letters (Sp) after the ability designate that it is a spell-like ability where the letters (Su) on other abilities like Smite Evil designate them as Supernatural abilities.


I understand that, but look at what SLAs are:

"Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component."

That contradicts you saying that Paladin's Detect Evil has components.

Silver Crusade

chaoseffect wrote:

I understand that, but look at what SLAs are:

"Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component."

That contradicts you saying that Paladin's Detect Evil has components.

Which pretty much sums up why I asked the question in the first place. But the fact is that SLAs do provoke attacks of opportunity, so I guess it has to be obvious that they're doing something, even without components.

As for getting a paladin to "waste" a smite, I've seen it happen. In fact, the very first time I GMed in Pathfinder Society 2.5 years ago, a friend of mine was playing her new paladin character for the first time. The final boss in that adventure is chaotic neutral, and she didn't take the time to detect evil on him before declaring a smite and going on the offensive.

I wasn't sure then if I should tell her the smite wasn't helping, and I never really followed up until now, which is part of the reason for this thread. In that game, I didn't tell her, and she just didn't do as much damage as she expected. But now I think I would tell someone if their smite failed.


Provoking could be as simple as letting your guard down. It need not mean that observers have any idea exactly what you're doing. There's no general rule for how obvious or flashy such abilities are--probably intentionally, to leave it to the table's whims. I remember this coming up with using some oracle ability to summon an ancestral weapon and sneak attack with it or something--it's ultimately up to the GM whether there's a peal of thunder and a burst of low-res particles when you use an ability or whether the ability simply happens.

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