| 4 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Does casting Instant Enemy on a creature let you use the native terrain of common examples of that creature type for Terrain Dominance?
Example 1: I cast Instant Enemy on a Red Dragon to make it count as Humanoid(Aquatic). Can I use my Terrain Dominance(Aquatic) to get bonuses against it? Since all printed aquatic humanoids are native to the aquatic terrain.
Example 2: I cast Instant Enemy on a Dire Tiger to count it as Humanoid(Gnoll). Currently, the only creature printed of that type is the Gnoll, which is native to Warm Plains and Deserts. Can I then use Terrain Dominance(Deserts) to get bonuses against it?
Example 3: I cast Instant Enemy on a Gelatinous Cube to count it as an Outsider(Fire). Can I use Terrain Dominance(Plane of Fire) to get bonuses against it?
For all purposes. RAW, yes.
RAI? Not sure. Possibly.
If I made the call on the RAW, I'd say no, but I don't work for Paizo ::grins::
I'm posting this because of the debate that started here.
My personal stance is that even RAW; No, changing a creature's effective creature type does not change what native terrain it comes from, therefore Terrain Dominance does not activate.
Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger selects a creature type from the ranger favored enemies table. He gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks against creatures of his selected type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against them. A ranger may make Knowledge skill checks untrained when attempting to identify these creatures.
At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by +2.
If the ranger chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table below. (Note that there are other types of humanoid to choose from—those called out specifically on the table below are merely the most common.) If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the ranger's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher.
Instant Enemy With this spell you designate the target as your favored enemy for the remainder of its duration. Select one of your favored enemy types. For the duration of the spell, you treat the target as if it were that type of favored enemy for all purposes.
Terrain Dominance: At 3rd level, a horizon walker learns total dominance over one terrain he has already selected for terrain mastery. When dealing with creatures native to that terrain, the horizon walker treats his favored terrain bonus for that terrain as a favored enemy bonus (as the ranger class feature) against those creatures.This bonus overlaps (does not stack with) bonuses gained when fighting a favored enemy.
Each terrain dominance grants additional abilities, detailed below. When the horizon walker gains a new terrain dominance he may, if he prefers, instead pick an additional terrain mastery.
snipped
Creature Types Each creature has one type, which broadly defines its abilities. Some creatures also have one or more subtypes. A creature cannot violate the rules of its subtype without a special ability or quality to explain the difference—templates can often change a creature's type drastically.
I certainly can't find any creature types that say "always native to this terrain". The closest I can find are ones like Agathion or Devil, but those are not valid choices for Favored Enemy.
Ah, you are correct. The Terrain Dominance text trumps it. They may be treated like a fish, but they are not from the same place as fish, so TD doesn't help.
Should have looked up TD. Silly me.
This was quick.
Not according to this debate it wasn't.
I Think no.
Like I said it wasn't a rules question.
Like I said it wasn't a rules question.
It is completely a rules question
Like I said it wasn't a rules question.It is completely a rules question
Okay.
The rest is obfuscation of kids wanting candy till one can quote an additional premise from RAW.
Wow.
To be devil's advocate in one post or less:
"For the duration of the spell, you treat the target as if it were that type of favored enemy for all purposes."
'For all purposes' is pretty inclusive.
Personally from me it's a no though, even with the above text. Instant enemy specifically calls out favoured enemy. Terrain dominance is explicitly not favoured enemy , but gives you identical bonuses against enemies native to your terrain type. I don't see how you could even cast instant enemy to modify the bonus given from terrain dominance, or why it would matter if so.
Come on it is what it is. The same people that argue for RAW flippin to argue for a logical/sensible reading is pretty amazing. As is the smoke screen of derailment posts when someone has a good point. Bemusing, amusing and worth verbally noting for once instead of just laughing and judging.
RAW flipping and logical/sensible reading? What's wrong with subscribing to both? I know Shield Master is busted as written. I run it "sensibly." Pretending it isn't busted as written is idiotic. RAW Planar Binding and Geas is a completely legal thing and grossly overpowered.
There's a no difference in knowing precisely what the RAW says and making connections based on that.
Pointedly, the book says you treat the foe as though they were that type for all purposes. All printed Humanoid(Aquatic) creatures are native to water. So the Ranger treating them as Humanoid(Aquatic) should be getting his Terrain Dominance since he treats them as that type for all purposes. If all Humanoid(Aquatic) creatures are native to water then treating them as if they were that type should work.
The only thing to argue is what all purposes is implying.
Just a Quick question do we assume that a creature that have a given envioment on its profile like(Environment tropical forests)is automaticly native to the terrain that this Fall under?
And if yes is a human then automaticly native to any terrain?
Is it the fact that even the most far of farm is a building and most humanoids live in some sort of house that make it so great?
I'm going to +1 Scavion's point.
Differentiating between
1) RAW legal, non-abusive, and probably RAI
2) RAW is legal but abusive, RAI is obvious
3) RAW is murky, RAI is obvious
4) RAW is murky, RAI is murky
is very important to the game, especially as a GM. I make a lot of judgment calls, even ones that are 100% RAW might not be legal in my game.
However, for hard rules questions, we need to not take that into account. All we're asking for is the actual RAW interpretation of the rules. And as far as I can tell, this one is pretty murky in both RAW and RAI. Should this be FAQed?
Favoured enemy does nothing. Terrain dominance at no time gives you favoured enemy and favoured enemy is the only thing instant enemy affects.
The issue here is Terrain Dominance giving "his favored terrain bonus for that terrain as a favored enemy bonus" against creature native to that terrain, and whether RAW/RAI you can use Instant Enemy to turn that on. Especially if you're somehow casting Instant Enemy when you don't have the Favored Enemy class feature.
I still think it's clearly no, but obviously some other people are harder to convince.
Also reading instant enemy again nothing in it would make the target a specific ltype of the favoured enemy.
So if I have terrain dominance jungle and cast instant enemy the target doesn't become the specific jungle dwelling tree climbing goblin.
Neither does instant enemy animal and terrain dominant ce Arctic? Make them a snow shoe hare.