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I'm wondering if anyone would be interested in a game wherein you'd play famous superheroes built and tweaked story-wise to fit into the world of Golarion. So, Hulk would maybe be an alchemist for whom things went terribly wrong, Batman's utility belt might be a Bag of Holding-esque item with considerably lower-tech gadgets, Thor might be (mechanically, at least) an Aasimar banished to the mortal world... Those sorts of things. They don't need to be perfect 1-1 representations of their powers, just true to the concept. Characters from both Marvel and DC would be doable, even dipping into the more obscure ones.
To achieve these builds without so much multiclassing that you'd be effectively useless, we'd be running gestalt. That way, you can dedicate one branch to getting all the stuff you need, and one to just leveling straight so you don't completely fall off. Round it out with 25 point buy, and you'd have some really strong characters worthy of the idea of a superhero. Of course, to compensate for how strong you are, you'll be fighting formidable threats in return, and naturally your arch nemesis will benefit from also being gestalt.
I'd be allowing third party material on a case-by-case basis and heavy houseruling to help things get closer to what they need to be. For starting level, I'm torn. I know at least 5 will let people start getting into their builds a little more, but it could start anywhere between 5-10 depending on where interest lies most.
For tone, I'm definitely of the "superheroes should be fun" camp. Complexity and conflict make good characters, but excessive brooding and angst to drag people down into lifeless husks or sociopaths is overplayed and kind of boring, frankly. The setting is much more lax on killing so you won't have to adhere to the golden rule (though characters who do and are built for nonlethal damage and disabling are certainly okay), let's not get into Punisher territory. More Marvel movieverse fun, less current DC movie broody necksnappiness.
So, I'm looking to see if there is sufficient interest in this to move forward on a recruitment thread. I'll field questions and suggestions through the thread, and we'll see where this goes.
I've always wanted to do a game like this. Definitely interested.
This sounds like fun.
I sense an appearance of Captain Andoran and a synthesist summoner Iron Guy.
Very interested!
Have you seen Marvel Pathfinders for ideas?
@Gnomezrule: The presence of a Captain Andoran in my Wrath of the Righteous was actually one of the catalysts behind the idea.
@Jubal: I have not. This looks like it will be very helpful, though. I was going to end up writing inordinate amounts of word vomit setting stuff, and this at least gives me a good guideline to ease myself in with. Thanks.
To play someone like Douglas Ramsey(X-Men, Cypher) would be fun.
Dotting as well.
Call me interested spooky.
I'm thinking starting level is best somewhere between 5-10. It allows builds to be fully realized and distinct, giving everyone some abilities and money to play around with so that they can flesh things out. Where exactly in that range I'd settle for is still up for discussion.
Also, I've decided that overhauling all of Golarion to fit and include people here and there isn't going to work, so we're going to be working off an adapted setting I'm working on now. Otherwise, we'd have like three nations modified and the rest completely forgotten about, which would be crappy to do to such a vast, thought-out world.
WAR-LOCK! WAR-LOCK! WAR-LOCK!
FIGHT THE TECHMODE!
Count me in. I'm between gigs.
We meet again
I'd love to make a Gambit like character.
One end would be Staff Magus, that much is clear, but for the other end I'm a bit in doubt. I'm looking at either an Evoker Wizard or a blasting oriented sorcerer with some levels of Arcane Archer modified to have the class features work with the cards from the Deadly Dealer feat.
Another idea would be figuring out how to get a Deadpool type character working.
Doctor Strange would also work, but that's probably just a Sorcerer|Wizard.
I like the concept so I would love to be in either way.
Personally I really like they idea of adding this as a layer to Golarion. Hence someone can use the established mythology and adapt the hero to the setting where appropriate. Hence Captain Andoran. Antonio Stark of Brastlewark.
Its just less work for you and it puts us in the place of having to make a place for us in the world that fits the world as well as come up with a set of powers. Then you can pull us together.
I did not dislike the Marvel Pathfinders I thought it was pretty clever but if I was going to play I don't want to be one of hundreds of Paladins of Omyrika or one of the followers of the Red Spider. I would want to be the one and only Captain Andoran who was a weakling son of a lumberjack who volunteered for experiment when the country went to war with the Empire of Chelliax. Now given special powers by some alchemist and has a sheild made from some strange Numerian metal. Perhaps I want to play Petrov Parjek a teen from Korvosa who is raised in the shingles by his aunt May who after the death of Blackjack decried the loss of the cities hero. He threw himself into his studies he befriended and was mentored by a wizard of the Academy Kurtan Conyers. He gets bit by one of the summoned spiders and bam is now the new hero of the people the Scarlet Spider.
My point is that Golarion is a huge place with lots of lore that people can connect themselves to the world a new setting would require new connections. I think this saves time and gives you the freedom to focus on a super hero style adventure rather than building a new setting.
In the end this is my 2 coppers and just a suggestion. I would be just as happy being Matias Murdok aka the Daredevil who is a robin hood figure in a nearby metropolis.
Also I love superheroes and world creation I would be happy to collaborate if you wanted.
@Cua'n- Gambit might work mechanically as an alchemist but whose fluff is that he charges inanimate objects with kinetic energy. Given Gambit's history as a thief he could then be gesalted with rogue.
Okay, people might dislike the suggestion, but seeing as how Superman is my favorite superhero, I would be all sorts of game to play him.
I would probably be a human Paladin/Sorcerer (Maybe elemental blooded to make fire spells double as cold spells to represent heat-vision and freeze breath)
The only thing I might have trouble with is the whole DR/magic thing. Flight should be reasonably easy to attain. I would also be forced to use a melee weapon instead of punching stuff.
Just a thought.
Or I could create a custom race, Kryptonian. :P
@Cuan: Deadpool is likely to be on my list of banned characters, just because he's a little derailey, and there's the concern that whomever tries to go for him won't have a solid enough grasp on how to be funny in Deadpool's style to make it all work.
@Gnomezrule: I'm on the fence about it even if I've written a lot just because of how easily it's changed, but the issue I see is just in worrying about creating a lot of stuff centered around a handful of cities, leaving much of it really bare. Reskinning Korvosa into Gotham/the unsavoury parts of Marvel's New York makes sense, but then it starts to thin out everywhere else, which is my biggest concern. But that's why I'm being really rough about all this; it's all ideaifying, and it can easily change.
I did really have a problem with the sheer scope of things being restricted to single orders, though. And whether I set it in Golarion or not, I'm going to keep the group things set only to ones that canonically are already. Green Lantern analogues who work as elite guards are fine, but an army of Spider-men seems like it take some of the fun out of running a character like that.
@Might Beowulf: Superman is one of those things I'm not 100% sure is viable on the same level. I don't know exactly how it would work best, but probably by piecing together a custom race, yes. To keep it balanced against the others it would have to be around the RP count for core races, but it's potentially doable.
@Spooky: I'll see about the Deadpool idea whether or not I can get an idea how to even do it mechanically. I do not think I can actually make a character with PF that fits the guy in a proper way. That is even before looking at the humor and whether I can pull that of on a consistent basis.
Both Wolverine and Beast are also ones I'd find interesting. The former I'm not sure how to do but beast would probably be an Alchemist|Barbarian.
I could also go for the somewhat more obscure and make Squirrel Girl.
EDIT: It'll be Squirrel Girl. The character is just too much fun. Now to figure out how to make her. Broodmaster Summoner looks fun for one end, especially if I can somehow combine it with the Wild Caller Half Elf archetype.
Perhaps Spooky seeing as you mentioned the Avengers movie your DMPC or campaign quest giver should be something or someone like Nick Fury who runs a spy ring like Shield (perhaps called the Pathfinders though a little redefining of the Pathfinders would be needed because the idea of shield would be generally good and protective not just the aquisition of knowledge) As these new stand out heroes show up he invites them or draws them to his Absolam base or perhaps even his Floating Citadel.
I could really see a golden age of comics feel (like Superman and Captain America fighting Natzis) to such a campaign. Perhaps a substantial threat rises from Cheliax that calls for heroes of substantial skill.
I would call Thor! Or attempt Batman if you want to go street-level. Let us know if you need any specific help to start things.
cheers
@Spooky Yeah, Superman is a bit of a god compared to many superheroes and I would be fine flavoring his power down for obvious balance reasons. I just want to try to emulate his powers and what-not.
I'll make the race real quick and have you have a look-see.
I think the real challenge to converting superheroes to normal Pathfinder characters is the substantial loss of powers.
For instance the Hulk can lift over 100 tons. That is significantly far and away more than even comprehensible by the PF rules. So the idea has to be dealing with how do i make a raging green rage monster that is really strong. Wolverine seems easy but he is going to have giant bonuses to tracking, regeneration that would put trolls to shame and a constitution in the 60s. This is even before we talk about the skeleton and the claws.
@Cuan: For Wolverine, there's a few classes/archetypes that can grant claws, like a Natural Weapons Ranger. And honestly, given the tracking abilities it grants, this seems like the go-to base for Wolverine.
@Gnomezrule: Yeah, that was the plan. Nick Fury is either the head of an organization of exceptional adventurers and spies if working in Golarion, and if the world's homebrewed he's the king's spymaster and follows a similar style. Which is me ripping off Marvel 1602, but it's another of those things that inspired the idea and it's damn good, so worth ripping off.
@Jubal Breakbottle: Either work, but thankfully character level means that even if there's canonical disparities in power, they're not nearly as drastic in-game.
I think to deal with the massive power disparities, I may whip up some sort of buy system where you'd take certain races' abilities for X points. So, you could take Fast Healing to reflect Wolverine's regeneration, DR, natural attacks, etc. Or, put them into stat bonuses, a bonus feat, perhaps starting cash/point, etc. That would allow people the wiggle room they need to do things without resorting to tossing on a million templates. Not sure how people would feel about that system, though.
As for Hulk, it's definitely a problem, but Ragechemist makes it a little easier. If nobody tries to tke him, I'll likely take from Marvel Pathfinders and base him off a Terrasque, since that's very a pretty apt description.
Here's what I could whip up for a race given just a few minutes. I would rather the DR increase with level (DR 1/2 level/magic) and flight to be dependent on land speed, but here's what I got. It's 13 RP the way I have it designed, but it's a place to start.
Stats: +2 Str, +2 Cha, -2 Wis (Or Human Heritage)
Blindsense 30ft (4 RP)
Fast (1 RP)
Damage Reduction 10/magic (6 RP)
Flight (40ft, average) (6 RP)
Red-Light Powerlessness (-1 RP) - This I took from the Sunlight Powerlessness racial weakness, only it's limited to red sunlight so I only took a -1 RP instead of -2. It would just mean that, in red sunlight, a Kryptonian is staggered and cannot attack. I imagine they'd also lose all racial abilities except for this one and Vulnerability to Kryptonite.
Sun-light Dependence (-1 RP) - This seems fair, after two hours out of sunlight, a Kryptonian becomes fatigued.
Fire Resistance 5 (1 RP)
Vulnerability to Kryptonite (-3 RP) - This is one that you might can help me on, but it's a mixture of Vulnerable to Sunlight, Sunlight Powerlessness, and some added stuff, but it's all specific to Kryptonite.
Basically: Within the effect radius of Kryptonite, a Kryptonian loses all racial abilities besides this one. Additionally, they lose one point of constitution and strength for every round of exposure inside of this radius, cannot attack and are staggered, and cannot use any class abilities. This effect persists for one round after leaving the radius, at which point the Kryptonian's stats and abilities return to normal.
The 1602 series I have heard nothing but good things about. I read a lot of synopsis of it but not the whole thing. I did like how they handled the changes.
I think your system might work well for character creation. There are also a number of items or spells that could mimic superpowers the problem is they are expensive and potentially unbalancing at some levels. Like slippers of Spider Climb could give you wall crawling like Spiderman.
Yeah, that all looks about right. I'd tweak dependence somewhat though, since two hours is a little too short a window. Maybe something where after so long without sunlight daily abilities no longer regenerate for him. Or just fatigue. I don't entirely know yet.
Cape boy's not that tuff! Bastiches!!!
@Spooky I can see that. It's a little rough because I wanted to work in that a Kryptonian didn't need to eat, drink, or sleep as long as he had been exposed to sunlight in the past 24 hours, so you could make it like you said and make it a 0 or 1 RP ability that says they don't need to eat, drink, or sleep as long as they've been exposed to sunlight for at least x hours of the last 24 hours. If they haven't, they become fatigued and cannot become rested for the purposes of daily allotments until they have been exposed to sunlight for at least y hours.
Or something. There's a prettier way to word that I'm sure.
Yeah Gnomez, that'll likely be another thing people can spend it on; using a point to embed a magic item (that they still have to buy) in them. If someone wants to play Martian Manhunter, for instance, they can buy a Hat of Disguise and get a version of it that, since it's not an item, is usable freely without taking up a slot or getting removed/destroyed somehow.
Ideas for how I could play silver surfer, or maybe johhny storm? Also rogue(The X-man) maybe a negative level drainer or necro wizard?... hm what to do what to do.
Given the recent treatment of the Hulk in the comics isn't Rovagug the Hulk?
I could see Rogue being able to apply negative levels and grabbing bonuses to attacks, saves, and temp HP for doing it. Maybe even having the option to, x/day, take a racial or class power from an enemy and use it as her own for the encounter.
I'd be hard pressed to say she actually TAKES it from the enemy though. Stealing a barbarian's rage while he's raging would be a bit too strong for a not-class related ability.
Rogue would be fun. Why stop there she could steal memorized spells or spell like abilities. The question is how severe do you allow her abilities I know in the movies she drains powers slowly in the mid 90's books it was one touch and usually you were out cold and she had your memories and powers for a while.
I think the biggest change to setting that would be needed is the level of power of the world. Not that there could not be level appropriate challenges but the abilities of the heroes should feel fantastic and give them a real edge over the average person, even the average adventurer.
Dotting for interest. For the sake of keeping things interesting, I would love to play one of the more obscure heroes out there. That or Dr. Doom.
Sorry someone already called Squirrelgirl. LOL
@Bane88: Sorry, Surfer is 100% off the table. Too strong, I don't want to go anywhere near Cosmic Marvel because it's a whole different ballgame, and that keeps me from ever having Surfer and Galactus show up as a thing.
@Gnomezrule: Yes, but Rovagug is a bit too strong for the party to fight. Whereas a Terrasque is at least doable. Half the point of running gestalt is to give the players a huge advantage and power boost over other characters of their level, and allow them to take on nastier threats. As for "calling", because some people might want to take the more popular ones, I'd probably say that multiple people can apply with something, and I'll take the best one of them if I choose them.
@Cosmic Dream Lord: Doom's not an option. Not only is he not a hero, but he's a pretty big deal villain I'd like to use down the line.
I prefer my Wolverine build here. Half-orc mostly Barbarian Invulnerable Rager
At 5th level, he has DR 5/- rage, claws, scent, Deflect Arrows.
I would prefer no custom races, because that's opening the genie bottle.
Yes, of course, for the calling thing. May the best submission win.
When will you post a taste of the campaign? I would like to know if Thor or Batman would be more appropriate.
cheers
My counter to the genie bottle would be "Go back to the drawing board this is s~++e". The fortunate thing about working with established characters is that if someone is very blatantly cheesing things up, I can shut it down. Or do you just mean the thought of custom races and not the "buy abilities of some sort to round out the powerset" concept?
And looking pretty good. How do you think you'd change it around in Gestalt?
That is a great example Jubal of paring down the character from the ridiculous regenerator, who the Hulk once pulled apart who then crawled over to his own legs, put them back on like pants and then hopped back in the fight. Your build has the right feel but is on par with PF.
Spooky, would you be ok with me combining Broodmaster with Wild Caller for one side of the Squirrel Girl? Basic idea is to simply apply Wild Caller's eidolon limitation to the entire brood.
G!+$+#nit people keep posting/editing their posts after I read it and start writing up my reply. Sorry for all the clusterf&##ey staggering, guys.
@Jubal: I'm not sure yet, since setting still isn't decided between modified Golarion or homebrewed f*+*ery. Batman and Thor are both definitely appropriate builds. I'm a fan of balanced parties, so Batman, who I assume would have at least one skill-oriented class, would fit in well, while dude who hits stuff with hammers and lightning makes for good combat any time.
@Cuan: Tentatively, let's say yes. Depends what your other half would be, though. Broodmaster + Druid would do the job just fine too.
The funny part is, I've actually done this before, but the way I did it was super high-powered and had houserule all over it. It was 30 point-buy, gestalt, mythic, create your own race 15 or less RP (but I still made sure it wasn't stupid broken), and everyone got to choose a power that was uniquely theirs that grew with them (like Rogue's power thieving or Superman's DR and flight). I also scaled stats way differently. Maximum human ability was set at 14. Having a 20 was incredibly amazing lifting 50 tons or building an Iron Man suit kind of stuff.
Throwing mythic onto gestalt is so much of a clusterf~%+ that I'd want absolutely nothing to do with balancing it. I feel like allowing players to get certain extra racial abilities and things can be easily compensated for by tweaking numbers upward a little, but if you're going high power, it's one or the other for mythic and gestalt. At that point, everything I could do would be either a breeze or a TPK.
As a lover of comics, gestalt and of course, PF, I am totally interested. Not at all sure what I would play, but I have plenty of ideas floating around. Posting to show interest and to keep an eye on things.
I am interested in this.
Two of my favorite Heroes are Iron Man and Dr. Strange. That said, I'm not a fan of playing synthesist summoner, so i would likely go for Aegis, if anything.
And for Dr. Strange, I would go with Wizard on one side and Psion on the other.
As you can see, both ideas would be contingent upon you allowing Dreamscarred Press's Psionics 3PP rules.
Not sure which idea i prefer more or which the party would need more (i think a slight edge to Dr. Strange since I'm not sure that many heroes carry the knowledges he would have)
Yeah, it would have worked with or without mythic, but I had to houserule encounters too. The first thing I sent them against was a 3 headed hydra with fast healing on the heads and the body had DR 5/-. I also made a Dragon's Dogma-esque cinematic fighting approach attractive$ climbing on the heads, lopping them off, and cauterizing the wounds. I mean, naturally it was set in a fantasy setting and actual superheroes from comics existed so that the group could make their own heroes and grow together without having to worry about Superman doing all the fighting while Batman avoids feeling inadequate.
I'd love to make Warmachine - Gunslinger/Synthesist build.
Or do you just mean the thought of custom races and not the "buy abilities of some sort to round out the powerset" concept?
This. Maybe give an ability point buy AND a racial point buy. I don't know if you would want to connect those two buy pools. It would take me some time to think about that.
And looking pretty good. How do you think you'd change it around in Gestalt?
That wolverine took me a lot of time to pare down to the essentials within PF. I would need to know your rules before thinking about changes in Gestalt. What to add first and that stuff.
cheers