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There is no comment from sean on the boards I have found and we've been over this seeking enchant question repeatedly. Seeking doesn't work the way you are thinking, it doesn't apply to ammunition fired from the bow. If you wanted to throw the bow/crossbow at the target it totally works that way though.
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I did check all his posts and there isn't a single relevant one with "seeking".
It certainly does seem to be on the chart that it isn't applied to the weapon ammo fired.
I can't count the number of seeking bows I've seen. The game last night had one. Are we certain it doesn't apply?
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I did check all his posts and there isn't a single relevant one with "seeking".
It certainly does seem to be on the chart that it isn't applied to the weapon ammo fired.
I can't count the number of seeking bows I've seen. The game last night had one. Are we certain it doesn't apply?
I am asking the GM that mentioned this to me for a link to his blog comment.
To answer your question in the Ultimate Equipment the property does not have the little number next to it. Which mean you could have a seeking error, but not a seeking bow. which is well... pretty dumb and make the property all but useless. Lets see what i can get on this.
Dumb is a kind of a heavy criticism since seeking is a VERY powerful enchant especially at a +1 cost. This restriction makes it more of a special power used when you REALLY need it as opposed to just making those ranged builds so much more OP then they currently are.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Ultimate Equipment the property does not have the little number next to it.
I just read Core (6th printing) and UE (1st printing) and couldn't detect a difference between the text or chart (neither had the "2" superscript that applies to ammo.)
So I again say, they look identical to the Core rules. So if anything it is a Core rules problem.
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Ultimate Equipment the property does not have the little number next to it.I just read Core (6th printing) and UE (1st printing) and couldn't detect a difference between the text or chart (neither had the "2" superscript that applies to ammo.)
So I again say, they look identical to the Core rules. So if anything it is a Core rules problem.
Yup, it's been this way since the game began and has intentionally stayed that way. Just because any number of GM's out there have allowed it doesn't change the fact that seeking has never officially worked with bows/crossbows or guns.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Well the description specifically mentions arrows:
So saying it doesn't work with arrows is weird.
It does work if you make +1 Seeking arrows (8,000 gp for 50x) in that case.
To be clear, looking at the rules. There is no doubt the rules indicate it is a property that can exist on arrows or bows but is not transferred from the bow to arrows shot.
Whether or not RAI is to be allowed, I don't know. Allegedly John said it should in the VO forums.
But rules wise, it doesn't have the "2" superscript so it doesn't transfer from bow to shot arrows.
So, what, if you put this on a bow you have to throw the bow to benefit?
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Good afternoon,
Following some joint investigation with the design team, we figured out what's what. The superscript 3 that designates that a ranged weapon imparts its properties to a ranged weapon almost always* accompanies an effect that would change an arrow's damage type or damage value, including flaming, holy, et cetera. As SKR noted in my conversation with him, the seeking property was originally on the sling of seeking in a previous edition and was pulled as a stand-alone special ability for Pathfinder, so the intention is certainly there that it should impart this property to its ammunition.
In brief, seeking longbows and the like are valid and effective.
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I'm not James or Mr. Compton but the rule is clear.
Page 469 of the Core Rulebook has a chart which lists which properties can be applied to ranged weapons.
The footnote 2 says "2 Bows, crossbows, and slings crafted with this ability bestow this power upon their ammunition."
If you look in the chart it lists a 2 next the following magical properties which according to the footnote 2 you are allowed to apply to Bows, crossbows and slings: Bane, Flaming, Frost, Merciful, Shock, Thundering, Anarchic, Axiomatic, Flaming Burst, Holy, Icy Burst, and Unholy.
Seeking is on the list but specifically omitted along with several other properties. So you can not apply them to a bow, crossbow, or sling.
Seeking has specifically and purposefully been left off that list.
It has also been left of the list in Ultimate Equipment on page 139, and all revisions of the Core Rulebook. So this is not an error, it is a deliberate decision.
You can apply your divine bond to ranged weapons such as a javelin and it would work, but you can not apply it to a bow and have it transfer the seeking quality to it's ammunition because it is specifically and purposefully left off the list of weapon properties you can apply to ammunition in all the reprints of the Core book and all other expansion books printed.
Incorrect. Please, please, please read John Compton's post just a few posts up:
In brief, seeking longbows and the like are valid and effective.
In other words: The seeking property does, indeed, devolve onto the arrows fired from a seeking longbow. As the rest of John's post says, the superscript is usually used on those properties that add additional damage, not on those that do not.
So, to paraphrase John Compton's post, an arrow fired from a seeking longbow will not miss due to miss chance.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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So, to paraphrase John Compton's post, an arrow fired from a seeking longbow will not miss due to miss chance.
It doesn't appear to work in core, but if Mr. Compton wishes to deviate from the rules and make it work in PFS. I'm find by that.
The seeking property is on the ranged weapon list because Javelins are ranged weapons and can have seeking. But the seeking property was written to only apply to bundles of 50 arrows enchanted as +1 seeking for example and for non-projectile weapons.
Kinevon, check out page 139 of Ultimate Equipment.
Ranged Weapon special abilities
Seeking
Notice there is no subscript next to seeking.
Without the subscript 3 which reads "Projectile weapons with this ability bestow this power upon their ammunition" your +1 Seeking Longbow doesn't bestow Seeking upon their ammunition.
I've got no dog in this, I don't care how it works. But I do care to try to follow the rules. I also don't care if we have a FAQ/deviate for PFS. I'll follow the deviation.
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So, to paraphrase John Compton's post, an arrow fired from a seeking longbow will not miss due to miss chance.It doesn't appear to work in core, but if Mr. Compton wishes to deviate from the rules and make it work in PFS. I'm find by that.
The seeking property is on the ranged weapon list because Javelins are ranged weapons and can have seeking. But the seeking property was written to only apply to bundles of 50 arrows enchanted as +1 seeking for example and for non-projectile weapons.
Kinevon, check out page 139 of Ultimate Equipment.
Ranged Weapon special abilities
SeekingNotice there is no subscript next to seeking.
Without the subscript 3 which reads "Projectile weapons with this ability bestow this power upon their ammunition" your +1 Seeking Longbow doesn't bestow Seeking upon their ammunition.I've got no dog in this, I don't care how it works. But I do care to try to follow the rules. I also don't care if we have a FAQ/deviate for PFS. I'll follow the deviation.
James, John Compton is a Paizo Developer, not just a PFS Developer, and discussed this with SKR, of the Paizo Design Team:
Following some joint investigation with the design team, we figured out what's what. The superscript 3 that designates that a ranged weapon imparts its properties to a ranged weapon almost always* accompanies an effect that would change an arrow's damage type or damage value, including flaming, holy, et cetera. As SKR noted in my conversation with him, the seeking property was originally on the sling of seeking in a previous edition and was pulled as a stand-alone special ability for Pathfinder, so the intention is certainly there that it should impart this property to its ammunition.
Can it get more official, or do you want it put into an FAQ so that it is inescapable?
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In a related but unrelated question to the seeking enchanment. Im new to the whole D20 Pathfinder thing and am attempting to run the rise of the runelords but, one of my players came up with an unusual weapon I don't know how to adjudicate. The weapon is a shuriken +1, seeking, returning as it is ammunition does it reapper in the same round for flurry of blow, and as seeking does he need to roll to hit if he can see his target?
With returning it doesn't come back until just before his next turn (this would be the next round). Seeking negates miss chance from concealment but you still have to hit the target's AC. Just to note, by RAW you cannot apply returning to a shuriken as it is treated as ammunition and would be destroyed on a successful hit (and has a 50% chance of being lost/destroyed on a miss).