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It doesn't gel well, and that's by design. Perfectly faultless and flawless good guys are, well, boring. By giving a lot of our good deities faults and flaws, we make them more interesting. Some have larger flaws than others; Desna is impulsive and overly curious, for example. The fact that so many people are intrigued by Ragathiel makes sense, seeing has he rides the line of what's good and what's not so closely.
What allows him to be all about vengeance and still be good is the way he goes about getting vengeance. I would say vengenace is more associated with chaos than evil, and is the opposite of justice (aka law). The method by which you go about getting revenge can be good or evil.
I gathered that. So Ragathiel's the "Dirty Harry" to Iomedae's "By The Book Cop," you might say? So what's a "good" way of getting revenge?
There are a LOT of Empyreal Lords. We want them all to be different, and that means some of them are going to edge close to being not super-traditionally goodie-two-shoes.
What separates Iomedae from Sarenrae is kindness. Iomedae is pretty grim and serious, whereas Sarenrae has room for laughter and joy in her world. What makes a Sarentie paladin different from an Iomedean one is that the Iomedean paladin will be pretty dour and serious and pessimistic, whereas the Sarenite one will be more cheerful and optimistic. Generally speaking.
Also, the Sarenite paladin will be a LOT more willing to bend the rules of the law of the land in order to serve the greater good. They're still lawful good, but it's the good that's most important to the Sarenite. The Iomedean...
GAHSORRY! I thought that other guy was you. Thanks for the advice, though. That bit about Iomedeans being dour and serious and stuff will make great role-playing advice!
And why DOES Iomedae grant access to the Sun domain? Do people venerate her as a solar deity, or do Sarenrae and Shizuru have a duopoly on that role? Furthermore, why does Golarion HAVE two solar deities? There's only one sun. At least you can rationalize Tsukiyo and Acavna because Golarion once had two moons, until Acavna died. Do Sarenrae and Shizuru share power over the sun? And again, how does Iomedae fit into this?
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If you observe the reactions to Empyreal Lords, you'll find people who abhor Ragathiel and Dammerich calling them out as patrons of entirely un-good actions which are more LN (or even LE) than LG. These people tend to embrace the more peaceful ELs, including those who treat violence and warfare as last resort, to be employed as self-defence when all other means fail.
On the other hand you get people who believe that the Old Testament burninante-and-murderize-the-bad-guys Punisher style approach of Raggy is what being Good is totally about, while all those Arsheas and Lymmersies are more of whimsy fey lords and have little to do with the concept of good in the first place.
It's all about what you perceive as "good". For some, it's compassion and understanding in the first place, for others it's physically eradicating the evil foremost.
As you see it, are there arcane magic users (wizards, sorcerers, witches...) that see themselves as priests and that reference deities in their verbal/somatic spell components?
If so, might this hold for example for Xanderghul (Wizard!Dorian Grey! *squeee!*) in his role as high priest of the Peacock Spirit?
Similarly, would it make sense to flavour (some) Mythic Archmages taking the Divine Knowledge ability to gain some cleric-only spells as also being priests of a sort, only that they primarily draw power from arcane sources?
Did you know Shimmy thinks you're just a big, dumb Mama Cat?
Why does Apsu not grant spells?
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James,
How rare are the classes in the Advanced Class Guide? If the ones from the Core are the most common and APG are next after that, does that make the likes of Shaman, Swashbucklers, etc very rare in Golarion? Do people even make those distinctions?
From say an Oracle, Paladin, Cleric and Warpriest?
All of the classes in the Advanced Class Guide already exist in Golarion. In the same way that all the classes in Advanced Player's Guide existed—we have been talking about oracles and witches and inquisitors and alchemists and cavaliers long before we ever thought of the Advanced Player's Guide, and looking through various Golarion products now you'll see plenty of mentions of shamans, swashbucklers, and the like.
AKA: They're already there, and they're as rare or common as we've already established them being.
Also: Note that I didn't mention the summoner on the list above. That's a good example of us having a disconnect between the rules line and Golarion—in hindsight, we probably should have built the summoner to be something more along the lines of an outsider-summoning class and not one based on an entirely new concept that didn't have any gravity or presence in Golarion yet... but we didn't, and as a result, for better or worse, summoners are by and far the rarest base class in Golarion.
There may be some that end up with that situation in Advanced Class Guide... but time will tell.
Hunter is the most common class in Golarion, then.
Hey James,
1) How are you feeling today?
2) Have you read the Watchmen graphic novel?
2a) Or seen the movie?
3) If so, did you enjoy it/them?
4) If you've read the novel, did you like the inclusion of the story within a story, the pirate one?
Switching line of questioning...now:
5) What is the most admirable human quality in your opinion?
6) What is the least admirable?
7) Do you think intelligence is inherently admirable or does it depend on how it is used?
Switching line of questioning again:
8) What is your favorite fictional city?
8a) Why?
9) Finally, if I can't major in writing or a similar major, what is the best way to get more formal training in the craft?
1) Am I right to suspect your influence when I see things like the Trickster Path being the coolest Mythic path, even for a Sword and Board Tanky Slayer, or Anti-Paladins being Chaotic for your Demon Lords instead of going with the Blackguard tradition of Lawful Evil?
2) Also, I noticed you mentioned 1st Edition D&D inspiring you to look into Lovecraft more. Is that what initially introduced you to Lovecraft, or just helped foster your apparent love for it?
3) How much of Arazni's past life does she remember? And how does she willingly serve in Geb is she remembers being a Herald to Aroden?
4) Do Arazni's views on Tar-Baphon reflect Geb's(the ruler)?
Creative Director
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It doesn't gel well, and that's by design. Perfectly faultless and flawless good guys are, well, boring. By giving a lot of our good deities faults and flaws, we make them more interesting. Some have larger flaws than others; Desna is impulsive and overly curious, for example. The fact that so many people are intrigued by Ragathiel makes sense, seeing has he rides the line of what's good and what's not so closely.What do you think Korada's and Arshea's flaws are? Or Vildeis? All seem intriguing and complex empyreal lords.
(And did you do design work for any of those three in particular?)
Honestly, I couldn't say. I know very little about the Empyreal Lords as a whole; there's a few I invented but for the most part, that book was all Amber and Wes and a few other folks. I haven't even had a chance to read the book but for a few parts key to my work on Wrath of the Righteous.
Needless to say, I didn't do any design work in the book, nor any on Korada or Arshea or Vildeis.
If you observe the reactions to Empyreal Lords, you'll find people who abhor Ragathiel and Dammerich calling them out as patrons of entirely un-good actions which are more LN (or even LE) than LG. These people tend to embrace the more peaceful ELs, including those who treat violence and warfare as last resort, to be employed as self-defence when all other means fail.
On the other hand you get people who believe that the Old Testament burninante-and-murderize-the-bad-guys Punisher style approach of Raggy is what being Good is totally about, while all those Arsheas and Lymmersies are more of whimsy fey lords and have little to do with the concept of good in the first place.
It's all about what you perceive as "good". For some, it's compassion and understanding in the first place, for others it's physically eradicating the evil foremost.
I'm not really in either group. I like Ragathiel because I like my good guys, even deities, flawed in some way. Not necessarily hyper violence 90's action hero with leather and belt straps flawed (Punisher, Wolverine, Spawn) of course. I like Raggy cause he has to contend with his parentage's influence amongst his role as a celestial being.
Course, I'm with James. I don't think vengence is inherently an evil act, but more chaotic. Course, I'm not going to get into my personal philosophies here since I'd imagine most would disagree with it :)
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Note that, of the 12 demon lords that Drow normally worship, one is Mazmezz, who is pretty much a 'demon queen of spiders,' if you want her to be, right out of the box.And on this note, as well:
Mazmezz is listed as a CR 27 demon lord in Descent into Midnight. Since the CR rankings were adjusted downward (e.g. Xoveron at 29 went down to 27), would she have dropped down to a CR 25-26 ranking if you were to stat her up now? Or might she retain her CR 27?
CR 26 is the lowest end for a demon lord. The conversion of CRs from Pathfinder #18's article isn't an exact science; some will drop by 2 or 3, while others won't change at all. I'd probably peg Mazmezz at CR 26, in any event.
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I gathered that. So Ragathiel's the "Dirty Harry" to Iomedae's "By The Book Cop," you might say? So what's a "good" way of getting revenge?It doesn't gel well, and that's by design. Perfectly faultless and flawless good guys are, well, boring. By giving a lot of our good deities faults and flaws, we make them more interesting. Some have larger flaws than others; Desna is impulsive and overly curious, for example. The fact that so many people are intrigued by Ragathiel makes sense, seeing has he rides the line of what's good and what's not so closely.
What allows him to be all about vengeance and still be good is the way he goes about getting vengeance. I would say vengenace is more associated with chaos than evil, and is the opposite of justice (aka law). The method by which you go about getting revenge can be good or evil.
A "good" way of getting revenge would be doing so in a way that minimizes torment and torture and focuses the revenge on the target to minimize or (even better) completely negate any collateral damage, and should also account for the opportunity of redemption and rehabilitation, perhaps, rather than outright murder revenge.
There are a LOT of Empyreal Lords. We want them all to be different, and that means some of them are going to edge close to being not super-traditionally goodie-two-shoes.
What separates Iomedae from Sarenrae is kindness. Iomedae is pretty grim and serious, whereas Sarenrae has room for laughter and joy in her world. What makes a Sarentie paladin different from an Iomedean one is that the Iomedean paladin will be pretty dour and serious and pessimistic, whereas the Sarenite one will be more cheerful and optimistic. Generally speaking.
Also, the Sarenite paladin will be a LOT more willing to bend the rules of the law of the land in order to serve the greater good. They're still lawful good, but it's the good that's most important to the Sarenite. The Iomedean...
GAHSORRY! I thought that other guy was you. Thanks for the advice, though. That bit about Iomedeans being dour and serious and stuff will make great role-playing advice!
And why DOES Iomedae grant access to the Sun domain? Do people venerate her as a solar deity, or do Sarenrae and Shizuru have a duopoly on that role? Furthermore, why does Golarion HAVE two solar deities? There's only one sun. At least you can rationalize Tsukiyo and Acavna because Golarion once had two moons, until Acavna died. Do Sarenrae and Shizuru share power over the sun? And again, how does Iomedae fit into this?
Iomedae grants access to the Sun domain mostly because we wanted to avoid "stranding" any of the domains with only one deity. There may have been a few cases where this happened, but we wanted to try to get all the domains spread out a bit so that if you wanted one in particular, you still had a few different deities to choose from. She's not really worshiped as a sun goddess—that's pretty much Sarenrae in the Inner Sea region. Her interaction with the sun is more as a goddess of the light and the day and an opposition to the monsters and horrors of the night and darkness.
In any event... there is more than one solar deity in the real world. Same goes for Golarion. You can have different deities associated with the same thing, even within the confines of a single culture.
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If you observe the reactions to Empyreal Lords, you'll find people who abhor Ragathiel and Dammerich calling them out as patrons of entirely un-good actions which are more LN (or even LE) than LG. These people tend to embrace the more peaceful ELs, including those who treat violence and warfare as last resort, to be employed as self-defence when all other means fail.
On the other hand you get people who believe that the Old Testament burninante-and-murderize-the-bad-guys Punisher style approach of Raggy is what being Good is totally about, while all those Arsheas and Lymmersies are more of whimsy fey lords and have little to do with the concept of good in the first place.
It's all about what you perceive as "good". For some, it's compassion and understanding in the first place, for others it's physically eradicating the evil foremost.
Not seeing any questions in there...
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As you see it, are there arcane magic users (wizards, sorcerers, witches...) that see themselves as priests and that reference deities in their verbal/somatic spell components?
If so, might this hold for example for Xanderghul (Wizard!Dorian Grey! *squeee!*) in his role as high priest of the Peacock Spirit?
Similarly, would it make sense to flavour (some) Mythic Archmages taking the Divine Knowledge ability to gain some cleric-only spells as also being priests of a sort, only that they primarily draw power from arcane sources?
Absolutely. You'll note we've NOT associated the word "priest" with specific rules all that much. That's on purpose. We want a word that we can apply to a member of a clergy who performs religious tasks and guidance—that is usually a cleric, but it can be ANY class... not just a divine spellcaster. It's certainly more rare, but a wizard or a bard or a monk or a fighter or a commoner can all be a priest in the right situation.
Krune is a better example among the runelords of a priest—he was, in fact, the high-priest of LIssala back in the day, I believe.
You don't need "cleric-only spells" or the like to be a priest. You simply need to belong to the religion and be awarded a position of leadership in that religion.
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Creative Director
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Did you know Shimmy thinks you're just a big, dumb Mama Cat?
According to a scientist. Scientists are not always right. Time travel back to the dawn of the 20th century and check out all the uses radium was put to for proof.
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Creative Director
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Hey James,
1) How are you feeling today?
2) Have you read the Watchmen graphic novel?
2a) Or seen the movie?
3) If so, did you enjoy it/them?
4) If you've read the novel, did you like the inclusion of the story within a story, the pirate one?
Switching line of questioning...now:
5) What is the most admirable human quality in your opinion?
6) What is the least admirable?
7) Do you think intelligence is inherently admirable or does it depend on how it is used?
Switching line of questioning again:
8) What is your favorite fictional city?
8a) Why?
9) Finally, if I can't major in writing or a similar major, what is the best way to get more formal training in the craft?
1) Pretty good... better than I have for the past 17 days, that's for sure!
2) Yes.
2a) Yes.
3) Loved the graphic novel. It was brilliant. I enjoyed the movie but was frustrated at the significant change to the nature of the threat that faced the world.
4) Yes, loved it.
5) Self-awareness. It's also the most troubling.
6) Self-awareness. See #5 above.
7) Inherently admirable. How it's used is not intelligence, and shouldn't taint the idea of intelligence.
8) Arkham.
8a) Because it's the most famous of the cities invented by Lovecraft, and because it combines all the things that are exciting and interesting about New England.
9) Take classes anyway, even if you're not majoring in it. But keep in mind that "formal writing training" isn't the point. The way to get better at writing is to write. And to supplement that writing by reading a lot. And it doesn't hurt to associate with other writers on a daily basis if possible.
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Creative Director
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1) Am I right to suspect your influence when I see things like the Trickster Path being the coolest Mythic path, even for a Sword and Board Tanky Slayer, or Anti-Paladins being Chaotic for your Demon Lords instead of going with the Blackguard tradition of Lawful Evil?
2) Also, I noticed you mentioned 1st Edition D&D inspiring you to look into Lovecraft more. Is that what initially introduced you to Lovecraft, or just helped foster your apparent love for it?
3) How much of Arazni's past life does she remember? And how does she willingly serve in Geb is she remembers being a Herald to Aroden?
4) Do Arazni's views on Tar-Baphon reflect Geb's(the ruler)?
1) Perhaps.
2) The Cthulhu Mythos section of Deities & Demigods is what prompted me to look into Lovecraft more... but that had already been primed by my reading of a short story by Robert Bloch called "Notebook Found in a Deserted House." I hadn't really put two and two together until reading Deities & Demigods though.
3) Pretty much all of it. She willingly serves in Geb because she does not see her time spent as being Aroden's herald as being a "nice" part of her life.
4) Nope.
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To answer his question, how would you define intelligence?7) Do you think intelligence is inherently admirable or does it depend on how it is used?
The ability to reason and overcome problems creatively. AKA: The ability to use tools. The ability to use language. The ability to use math.
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Nope. Commoner is.
Hunter is the most common class in Golarion, then.
Agh, right... PC Class i mean. With Hunter being a new PC Class, i think it will be an exception to the class mentioning rule or risk that, suddenly, normal huntsman become divine casters with animal companions. It would be fun, thou.
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This might break rules, since it's not a question. I just wanted to say that I appreciate you taking your time to do these forums. Also, just that I think you & Paizo do a fantastic job in general, and consistently put out quality content. Your passion for the game shows time & time again. It's apparent that you're fans as well as authors. I was locked up for several years and patiently awaited my issues of Dragon & Dungeon magazines each month. Y'all saved my life in there, and I'm pretty much a Pathfinder fan for life. Keep it up!
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A wish spell to turn me into an outsider, since I'm currently a humanoid and thus cannot be conjured by planar ally, which only conjures outsiders.If I wanted to summon you with planar ally, what condition(s) would increase my chances of garnering your services?
(For example, in Chronicle of the Righteous, your chance of garnering the services of a hound archon go up if you take in a stray dog and swear to find it a good home after the hound archon performs its services.)
Would you prefer to be a Fiendish or Celestial T-Rex?
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1) Have you put any thought as to where you'd put the udaeoi from Bestiary 4 in Golarion, if anywhere, and what their origins would be? If so, where do you think they'd be from?
2) What are three of your favorite desert-dwelling creatures, whether sapient or not?
3) What are three of your favorite fey monsters?
1) They would be from Iblydos, I suspect. Beyond that... not sure yet.
2) Dust digger, girtablilu, blue dragon.
3) Nymph, redcap, ankou.
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Nope. Commoner is.
Hunter is the most common class in Golarion, then.Agh, right... PC Class i mean. With Hunter being a new PC Class, i think it will be an exception to the class mentioning rule or risk that, suddenly, normal huntsman become divine casters with animal companions. It would be fun, thou.
Hunters as a profession are not synonymous with hunters as classes, though. There are more "hunters" which are simply people who make a living hunting than there are people with hunter class levels.
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Did you know Shimmy thinks you're just a big, dumb Mama Cat?According to a scientist. Scientists are not always right. Time travel back to the dawn of the 20th century and check out all the uses radium was put to for proof.
Been watching Modern Marvels today eh?
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Creative Director
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Pathfinder is a group game. It requires consent of the players. A GM is only a GM because players agreed to let that person GM. A GM is not magically imbued with superior knowledge about the game or the rules or even how to interpret the rules. The GM gets to make the final call to facilitate the game moving forward. But the onus on everyone is to get the rules correct, otherwise why have them?
The first lesson every GM should learn is that they will never know all the rules and that they need to accept the input of players on how to interpret the rules. Every time I GM I learn something that I thought I already knew or am reminded of something I had forgotten. If I had the attitude that I'm right because I'm the "GM" I'd be a terrible GM, well, worse than I am now anyway.
In theory, if a GM isn't up to the task, his players will simply abandon the game and the problem is self-correcting. Whether or not the players find a new, better GM to replace the one that's not so good is irrelevant to that, although obviously I would hope that they'd find a new and better GM.
Note also that a good GM is one who's willing to listen to player input, and in the case of a player knowing the rules better than the GM, is one willing to more or less cede rules rulings to that player, while still being the final arbiter of whether or not something works one way or the other.
Being a GM is a tough job, and the players need to realize that and help where they can. And that help can be both by supplying advice and rules aid AND by assenting to the GM's ruling. A ruling that keeps game play going for a session and is open to later revision is better than stopping the game in its tracks, in my opinion.
In any event... in a perfect world, that GM could and should go to internet messageboards like these here to seek advice, but would be willing to accept advice from ALL the posters on the boards and wouldn't put the rulings of one person over and above the others and then make their own decisions without trying to use, say, my advice as a lever to "force" others into playing the game the way they want... ;-)
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This might break rules, since it's not a question. I just wanted to say that I appreciate you taking your time to do these forums. Also, just that I think you & Paizo do a fantastic job in general, and consistently put out quality content. Your passion for the game shows time & time again. It's apparent that you're fans as well as authors. I was locked up for several years and patiently awaited my issues of Dragon & Dungeon magazines each month. Y'all saved my life in there, and I'm pretty much a Pathfinder fan for life. Keep it up!
Thanks!
Compliments and thanks NEVER break rules! :-)
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Been watching Modern Marvels today eh?Did you know Shimmy thinks you're just a big, dumb Mama Cat?According to a scientist. Scientists are not always right. Time travel back to the dawn of the 20th century and check out all the uses radium was put to for proof.
HA! Well done! Yes, that was my breakfast viewing this morning!
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Would you prefer to be a Fiendish or Celestial T-Rex?A wish spell to turn me into an outsider, since I'm currently a humanoid and thus cannot be conjured by planar ally, which only conjures outsiders.If I wanted to summon you with planar ally, what condition(s) would increase my chances of garnering your services?
(For example, in Chronicle of the Righteous, your chance of garnering the services of a hound archon go up if you take in a stray dog and swear to find it a good home after the hound archon performs its services.)
Fiendish!
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Fiendish!Would you prefer to be a Fiendish or Celestial T-Rex?A wish spell to turn me into an outsider, since I'm currently a humanoid and thus cannot be conjured by planar ally, which only conjures outsiders.If I wanted to summon you with planar ally, what condition(s) would increase my chances of garnering your services?
(For example, in Chronicle of the Righteous, your chance of garnering the services of a hound archon go up if you take in a stray dog and swear to find it a good home after the hound archon performs its services.)
... So you could serve as a mobile weapons platform for Succubi Amazons?
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HA! Well done! Yes, that was my breakfast viewing this morning!Been watching Modern Marvels today eh?Did you know Shimmy thinks you're just a big, dumb Mama Cat?According to a scientist. Scientists are not always right. Time travel back to the dawn of the 20th century and check out all the uses radium was put to for proof.
Curious/Crazy minds think alike :3
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... So you could serve as a mobile weapons platform for Succubi Amazons?Fiendish!Would you prefer to be a Fiendish or Celestial T-Rex?A wish spell to turn me into an outsider, since I'm currently a humanoid and thus cannot be conjured by planar ally, which only conjures outsiders.If I wanted to summon you with planar ally, what condition(s) would increase my chances of garnering your services?
(For example, in Chronicle of the Righteous, your chance of garnering the services of a hound archon go up if you take in a stray dog and swear to find it a good home after the hound archon performs its services.)
Perhaps. But mostly because I think fiendish stuff is more interesting than celestial stuff.
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Perhaps. But mostly because I think fiendish stuff is more interesting than celestial stuff.... So you could serve as a mobile weapons platform for Succubi Amazons?Fiendish!Would you prefer to be a Fiendish or Celestial T-Rex?A wish spell to turn me into an outsider, since I'm currently a humanoid and thus cannot be conjured by planar ally, which only conjures outsiders.If I wanted to summon you with planar ally, what condition(s) would increase my chances of garnering your services?
(For example, in Chronicle of the Righteous, your chance of garnering the services of a hound archon go up if you take in a stray dog and swear to find it a good home after the hound archon performs its services.)
Succubi are always vewwy interesting.
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James, does this argument (posted below) have any merit? I read it online and wasn't so sure. Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask such
a thing.
"Summoners have discounted a ton of spells for other casters who share the same spells with them. Magic item prices are set on the lowest caster level that a spell can be cast at.
When creating magic items, you can intentionally craft items at a lower caster level, as long as it is at the minimum caster level that the spell can be cast. Because summoners were given spells at lower levels than they should have been, we now have access to Core casters such as clerics, druids, sorcerers, and wizards can now legally buy wands and scrolls of these spells and use them with no trouble, craft some of their own items at a new lower caster and spell level to save in cost, and in some cases
scribe scrolls into their spell books for less money.Here's an example: Summoners get haste as a 2nd level spell, at 4th caster level. A whole spell level and caster level before the original sorcerer/wizard casters do. Now, a CL 4thwand of haste is legal, and costs only 6,000 gp, as opposed to the CL 5th version.
Several items are now incorrectly priced in the core rulebooks (such as boots of speed, which were 12,000gp, but now should cost only 8,000 gp). Likewise, you can now get summon monster V (traditionally a 5th level spell) into a wand (limited up to 4th level spells), along with any other spell listed in the 4th level summoner spells above."
A wish spell to turn me into an outsider, since I'm currently a humanoid and thus cannot be conjured by planar ally, which only conjures outsiders.If I wanted to summon you with planar ally, what condition(s) would increase my chances of garnering your services?
(For example, in Chronicle of the Righteous, your chance of garnering the services of a hound archon go up if you take in a stray dog and swear to find it a good home after the hound archon performs its services.)
Okay.
Nice try. Along with reclassifying succubi as devils, 4th Edition also reclassified you as an outsider subtype. Perhaps you have the native subtype? ;-)
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Just want to say I love the latest instalment to Wrath of the righteous now something I'm curious about
Character Creation! What do you make?
Now that the Swashbuckler is being made into a class, are there any other character concepts that you think warrant being made into full base/hybrid/alternate classes with the same urgency as the Swashbuckler?Yes, but if I even mention them it'll cause a storm of armchair predictions about what Paizo's up to next, so I'm gonna keep quiet.
Armchair predictions? James, we would never. You can trust me.
May I interest you in some some nice swap land I got for sale?