Hey James, I have a setting question for you that overlaps with a Rules Question...
As discussed in this thread a recent FAQ on SLAs has been interpreted by many to mean that ALL SLAs are classed as Arcane if on the Sorc/Wiz spell list (or Bard if also not on Cleric/Druid), and that may also include Domain SLAs even though they are obviously from a Divine source. (I'm personally not sure whether the intent is for that ruling to apply to ALL SLAs, or just 'racial' ones)
How would that impact on Rahadoum? Is Clerics using Domain SLAs something that would not possibly create a problem in Rahadoum if they in fact count as "Arcane" and there's nothing else to distinguish that Arcane SLA from another? (holy symbol not required, etc) Would you normally expect that Domain SLAs actually should be Divine?
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James, can I ask what you mean when you say there's not enough "design space" for differently aligned paladins? Is it just that by the time you expand the paladin to embrace a different alignment, the class name paladin isn't descriptive enough to be useful anymore? Or is it some other RPG design term that I've never heard before?
It would also eat up a ton of page count, for increasingly marginal benefit. (As PFS, con games, a large number of home games, etc. won't allow evil PCs, making a third of that wasted space.)
And nine 'Paladins' (Crusaders, Champions, Exemplars, Reavers, *whatever*) one for each alignment, only really scratches the surface.
A LN 'Paladin' of Irori *should* look very different than a LN 'Paladin' of Abadar. Same with a CN 'Paladin' of Gorum, who should look nothing like a CN 'Paladin' of Calistria. And so, it's probably going to be unsatisfactory to have merely a 'LN Holy Warrior' or 'CN Holy Warrior,' since the various gods that share an alignment don't necessarily share anything else, and not all gods of one alignment are necessarily antithetical and all 'smite-y' about the other (a Holy Champion of Irori, for instance, might not have the slightest interest in 'smiting chaos' and one of Urgathoa could explicitly care less about 'smiting good').
So, yet more page count, at least some of it eaten up by stuff that, again, very few people are ever going to get to use, since so many adventures are built around followers of Norgorber or Urgathoa or Lamashtu being bad-guys, making their 'Holy Champions' likely to get about as much PC use as NPC classes like the Expert and Adept.
Creative Director
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Hey James, I have a setting question for you that overlaps with a Rules Question...
As discussed in this thread a recent FAQ on SLAs has been interpreted by many to mean that ALL SLAs are classed as Arcane if on the Sorc/Wiz spell list (or Bard if also not on Cleric/Druid), and that may also include Domain SLAs even though they are obviously from a Divine source. (I'm personally not sure whether the intent is for that ruling to apply to ALL SLAs, or just 'racial' ones)
How would that impact on Rahadoum? Is Clerics using Domain SLAs something that would not possibly create a problem in Rahadoum if they in fact count as "Arcane" and there's nothing else to distinguish that Arcane SLA from another? (holy symbol not required, etc) Would you normally expect that Domain SLAs actually should be Divine?
Personally? I don't think SLAs should count as arcane magic. It should depend entirely on the source.
As for how it would impact Rahadoum... they don't care if you're casting arcane or divine magic, and indeed in game there is no way to tell the difference. They care if your'e a religious person, or if you appear to be so. It's not magic that gets them worked up; it's faith. That's a separate issue from magic.
The Blackguard (3.5 LE Paladin PrC) seemed to have sufficient design space, don't see how it would be different as a base/alt class.
LE and CG are maybe the clearest cut to justify though. (and LE already has the Hellknight PrC to avoid stepping on the toes of,
although that also is true of LN and LG Clerics, Inqs, and Paladins entering Hellknight PrC)
NN/NG/NE/CN/LN are just less defined than the corner alignments, they don't necessarily stand for one thing
as much as they might just be about a pragmatic indifference or weak preferences balanced between extremes.
Inquisitor seems to fill in well for all of those non-corner-alignment "Paladins" though,
Domains and acting in accordance with your deity allows much of the same 'path'-specific flavor as Paladins, updated as appropriate...
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Creative Director
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The Blackguard (3.5 LE Paladin PrC) seemed to have sufficient design space, don't see how it would be different as a base/alt class.
LE and CG are maybe the clearest cut to justify though. (and LE already has the Hellknight PrC to avoid stepping on the toes of,
although that also is true of LN and LG Clerics, Inqs, and Paladins entering Hellknight PrC)NN/NG/NE/CN/LN are just less defined than the corner alignments, they don't necessarily stand for one thing
as much as they might just be about a pragmatic indifference or weak preferences balanced between extremes.
Inquisitor seems to fill in well for all of those non-corner-alignment "Paladins" though,
Domains and acting in accordance with your deity allows much of the same 'path'-specific flavor as Paladins, updated as appropriate...
And that touches on another of my ideas... that the paladin itself should have always been a prestige class.
Personally? I don't think SLAs should count as arcane magic. It should depend entirely on the source.
As for how it would impact Rahadoum... they don't care if you're casting arcane or divine magic, and indeed in game there is no way to tell the difference. They care if your'e a religious person, or if you appear to be so. It's not magic that gets them worked up; it's faith. That's a separate issue from magic.
Thanks, I also feel that Divine Source should determine Divine Magic Type (e.g. for Save Bonuses that only apply vs. Divine/Arcane Magic), but we will see what the Rules Team does there...
Re: Rahadoum, having it in terms of observable 'religion' feels more how I had originally envisioned it, I somehow got convinced that Rahadoumis cared about and could detect/discern Arcane vs. Divine magic... So I guess Alazhra wasn't persecuted so much for Divine magic being detected as her Oracular Curse was recognized as a sign of an Oracle, which at least some Rahadoumis lump in with Agents-of-Gods... I wonder if people with 'mundane' deformities like "Lame" also end up getting persecuted under the same rationale...
But I like that more in the end, because it makes it more realistic for real Clerics to be sneaking around Rahadoum, if they were so easily detectable in ANY manifestation of their power (as opposed to just obvious signs like holy symbols, proselytizing, cult temples) then there's less motivation for paranoia, while the idea that they COULD be going around using their god-magic maintains the tension. I'd guess that the Evangelist Cleric archetype could be popular amongst stealth-infitrator Clerics in Rahadoum, since they can pass themselves off as Bards with a few Cure spells (avoiding Divine Focus spells) all the more easily.
And that touches on another of my ideas... that the paladin itself should have always been a prestige class.The Blackguard (3.5 LE Paladin PrC) seemed to have sufficient design space, don't see how it would be different as a base/alt class.
LE and CG are maybe the clearest cut to justify though. (and LE already has the Hellknight PrC to avoid stepping on the toes of,
although that also is true of LN and LG Clerics, Inqs, and Paladins entering Hellknight PrC)NN/NG/NE/CN/LN are just less defined than the corner alignments, they don't necessarily stand for one thing
as much as they might just be about a pragmatic indifference or weak preferences balanced between extremes.
Inquisitor seems to fill in well for all of those non-corner-alignment "Paladins" though,
Domains and acting in accordance with your deity allows much of the same 'path'-specific flavor as Paladins, updated as appropriate...
In most of the early D&D it seemed to be a sort of prestige class. I believe the old Greyhawk Supplement I had them as Fighting Men (fighters) that had to be Lawful (single alignment system back then) and could become Paladins.
Thanks for the speedy answer, JJ. (Also, I really didn't intend to turn this into yet another pally/alignment derail).
And that touches on another of my ideas... that the paladin itself should have always been a prestige class.
Hmm...
Maybe those folks at WotC back in the 3.x years were just expecting Paizo to do some groovy stuff with Paladin Favored Class bonuses one day... ;-)| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Dear James,
Which color is brighter? Octarine or the Color out of Space?
Which are we more likely to be able to print in the near future?
Colour out of Space.
I'm not sure what Octarine is. But I do know that we've had the Colour out of Space in print for a few years—it appeared in Pathfinder #46.
Octarine is the colour of magic.
Jumping in to the Time Machine, where in Golarian would you place "Thunder Under Needlespire?"
Any suggestions for updates/conversions/additions that have occurred to you over the years?
James is there any prospect of Paizo doing their own renditions of Beholders or Grells?
I know some of the other retro clone style games or OGL rules games have done them. Labyrinth lord has a couple of variations in their Advanced Edition Companion, and Dario Nardi has the Globerex in his Radiance RPG. These two examples are of the Beholder not the Grell.
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Creative Director
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Octarine is the colour of magic.Dear James,
Which color is brighter? Octarine or the Color out of Space?
Which are we more likely to be able to print in the near future?
Colour out of Space.
I'm not sure what Octarine is. But I do know that we've had the Colour out of Space in print for a few years—it appeared in Pathfinder #46.
Google further informs me that it's an invention of Terry Pratchett, which explains why I still didn't quite know what it was about. (I'm not a Pratchett fan.)
In any event, the colour out of space is in the public domain, and octarine is not, which is another reason we did something with the former and won't be doing anything with the latter.
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Creative Director
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James is there any prospect of Paizo doing their own renditions of Beholders or Grells?
I know some of the other retro clone style games or OGL rules games have done them. Labyrinth lord has a couple of variations in their Advanced Edition Companion, and Dario Nardi has the Globerex in his Radiance RPG. These two examples are of the Beholder not the Grell.
Nope.
Both of those critters are really unique looking and have very recognizable attacks and lore behind them that have no real basis in any real-world mythology—they were invented whole cloth for D&D, and I'd rather not step on WotC's toes by creating fake or replacement versions of them for Pathfinder.
Other companies have done so, but that has always kinda rubbed me the wrong way. If we WERE to do something like that, we'd approach it the same way we approach doing monsters that are not in the public domain—we'd approach the creators or rights holders for permission to do so and would negotiate a license to do the real thing rather than a knock-off. That's how we treated the deep crow (from Penny Arcade), the coeurl (from A. E. Van Vogt), an a few of the non-public-domain Lovecraftian monsters Chaosium invented.
James is there any prospect of Paizo doing their own renditions of Beholders or Grells?
I know some of the other retro clone style games or OGL rules games have done them. Labyrinth lord has a couple of variations in their Advanced Edition Companion, and Dario Nardi has the Globerex in his Radiance RPG. These two examples are of the Beholder not the Grell.
Nope.
Both of those critters are really unique looking and have very recognizable attacks and lore behind them that have no real basis in any real-world mythology—they were invented whole cloth for D&D, and I'd rather not step on WotC's toes by creating fake or replacement versions of them for Pathfinder.
Other companies have done so, but that has always kinda rubbed me the wrong way. If we WERE to do something like that, we'd approach it the same way we approach doing monsters that are not in the public domain—we'd approach the creators or rights holders for permission to do so and would negotiate a license to do the real thing rather than a knock-off. That's how we treated the deep crow (from Penny Arcade), the coeurl (from A. E. Van Vogt), an a few of the non-public-domain Lovecraftian monsters Chaosium invented.
James, thanks for a great solid answer on that issue. I can't help but agree with you on that. Shows you guys at Paizo are respectful and care about the hobby's history. Awesome!
If the D&D franchise went up for sale, do you think Paizo would attempt to buy it?
If the D&D franchise went up for sale, do you think Paizo would attempt to buy it?
Shudder to think, I have often pondered that myself.
hello james! in a recent campaign Ive made a half vampire woman, id just like to know if dhampirs are detected as living or undead?
James this shows how much we love your product, asking such sensitive questions. At least I can honestly speak for myself.
Unearthed Arcana had CG, CE and LE Paladin variants, + Paladin as a PrC idea.
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Creative Director
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There's probably some fan-conversions of them out there somewhere - I know I found one for the Beholder as part of a PF conversion for Eberron material (one of the setting's organisations has one as part of their coat of arms, was probably just easier to port the creature over than re-design their emblem).
What was your opinion of some of the races Eberron introduced, like the Shifters and Changelings?
I'm sure there are. I made up a beholder myself, in fact, just to spring on folks here in an office game. HA! They were NOT PREPARED.
I'm not a big fan of the races introduced in Eberron.
Paladin variants and prestigious Bard, Paladin and Ranger.
Edit to put a question: were you (JJ and other posters) talking about stuff like this?
Hhhmm...I don't know if the Grell were completely made up. They seem to be based on Medusae from Legion of Space by Jack Williamson (an author who is listed in Appendix N)
Maybe at some point, if doing more Distant Worlds stuff, Paizo could get permission like you received for the Coeurl to do the Medusae?
On a related note, are there any copyright-protected monsters from fiction that you would like to get permission to stat up for Pathfinder?
If the D&D franchise went up for sale, do you think Paizo would attempt to buy it?That's more of a Lisa question.
Ok, rephrase, if D&D went up for sale, would you, James Jacobs, like to see Paizo acquire it?
Or do you think that would come with a lot of baggage? Like a demand to publish all the different settings tied to it as well?
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Not really; they're a small enough group and good enough at self policing and so on. They are, overall, more faithful and devoted than the vast bulk of the Mendevian Crusade.Pretty much what I expected. Thank you!
Are there instances of Knights of Ozem going bad? They seem to be on the whole a lot better at policing themselves than Mendev's crusaders.
Would this higher standard be part of the reason they're struggling right now? Not enough bodies on the front lines of the orc fights?
I see. Probably explains why they're stretched so thin by the orcs and Gallowspire. Not many people can live up to those standards, I'll wager.
What do you do when you refine characters, both for play and for adventure NPCs? Do you ever feel like you add TOO many details to their backstory or description, or that the character tries to cover too many narrative bases at once? When do you feel a character needs to be "streamlined" so to speak?
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Paladin variants and prestigious Bard, Paladin and Ranger.
Edit to put a question: were you (JJ and other posters) talking about stuff like this?
Nope; I was talking about new base classes I designed for variant paladins that appeared in Dragon Magazine.
I'm aware of those variants from Unearthed Arcana... but I'm not all that fond of them.
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I've floated a similar idea before my players - you could almost go with 4 basic classes; fighter, wizard, rogue and cleric. Other variants could be prestige classes.
And that touches on another of my ideas... that the paladin itself should have always been a prestige class.
I think that's going a step too far, frankly.
I'm not saying paladin should be a prestige class as a way to reduce the base classes. I'm saying paladin should be a prestige class because of all the base classes, it lends itself best to the concept of you have to prove yourself and meet certain prerequisites before you're accepted into the class.
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Creative Director
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Hhhmm...I don't know if the Grell were completely made up. They seem to be based on Medusae from Legion of Space by Jack Williamson (an author who is listed in Appendix N)
Maybe at some point, if doing more Distant Worlds stuff, Paizo could get permission like you received for the Coeurl to do the Medusae?
On a related note, are there any copyright-protected monsters from fiction that you would like to get permission to stat up for Pathfinder?
Using that logic you could argue that NO monster is "completely made up." That's not the point, though. The point is that the specific look combined with its tactics and combat capabilities and in particular the word "grell" all combined together is product identity that is protected by copyright held by Wizard of the Coast. Could another game company draw upon something from Jack Williamson (or any other author) to build something similar to a grell (or another monster) and publish it? Absolutely. But you can't make it look like a brain octopus with a beak that paralyzes with its tentacles and is called a grell. Not without expecting to get sued.
Furthermore... just being in Appendix N doesn't mean everyone who designed for D&D was inspired by Appendix N; that appendix was, as far as I know, compiled by Gary Gygax. The grell was invented by Ian Livingstone, who may well have been inspired by Williamson, but was not involved in the compilation of Appendix N.
And we wouldn't go this route anyway to stat up something called a "Medusae" because that's WAY too close to the "medusa" we already have in the game anyway.
There's plenty of copyright-protected monsters I'd love to some day stat up in Pathfinder... and since they might some day happen, I'd rather not spoil the list or jinx things by saying it out loud... but a lot of them are monsters invented by authors who were expanding on the Lovecraft mythos.
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Creative Director
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If the D&D franchise went up for sale, do you think Paizo would attempt to buy it?That's more of a Lisa question.Ok, rephrase, if D&D went up for sale, would you, James Jacobs, like to see Paizo acquire it?
Or do you think that would come with a lot of baggage? Like a demand to publish all the different settings tied to it as well?
Me? No. This time 7 years ago I would have absolutely said yes. But having put this much work into Pathifnder, I'm too fond and proud of it to cast it aside to "buy D&D" and go forward with that. And I respect D&D too much to want to try to turn it into a "Pathfinder game" if that makes any sense.
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Creative Director
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What do you do when you refine characters, both for play and for adventure NPCs? Do you ever feel like you add TOO many details to their backstory or description, or that the character tries to cover too many narrative bases at once? When do you feel a character needs to be "streamlined" so to speak?
For a player character, I prefer to generally prepare a short background for them that's about 600 to 1,500 words. Pretty similar to what you've seen me do for "Meet the Iconics" blog posts. But if I don't have that much time, I'll just jot down a few notes and then build things organically as I go.
For NPCs, just check any Adventure Path or module that I've developed to see what I think an NPC needs! :-)
In games I run, I often make up NPC personalities on the fly, improving the bulk of it. Sometimes I'll roll on a table of random personality traits. Sometimes I base it on a character from a book or movie.
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What do you do when you refine characters, both for play and for adventure NPCs? Do you ever feel like you add TOO many details to their backstory or description, or that the character tries to cover too many narrative bases at once? When do you feel a character needs to be "streamlined" so to speak?For a player character, I prefer to generally prepare a short background for them that's about 600 to 1,500 words. Pretty similar to what you've seen me do for "Meet the Iconics" blog posts. But if I don't have that much time, I'll just jot down a few notes and then build things organically as I go.
For NPCs, just check any Adventure Path or module that I've developed to see what I think an NPC needs! :-)
In games I run, I often make up NPC personalities on the fly, improving the bulk of it. Sometimes I'll roll on a table of random personality traits. Sometimes I base it on a character from a book or movie.
Do you ever feel there's such a thing as too much detail in a character?
And on an unrelated note, which overarching AP villain do you feel is the weakest in terms of characterization?
Does Golarion have a Santa Claus?
At one time, yes, but he made the mistake of delivering too close to the Abyss.
James, I am starting my final prep for running WotR starting on Friday and I was wondering if I could get some pointers on running the first encounter?
Specifically:
Any thoughts?
Of the announced classes, other than the swashbuckler, what's your favorite one?
What sort of archetypes are you hoping to see for the swashbuckler?
About buying DnD, what if buying some of the stuff they have rights on, if the opportunity presented itself, is there somethings you wish Paizo would buy (monsters, templates, races, classes, settings, etc)?
Me? No. This time 7 years ago I would have absolutely said yes. But having put this much work into Pathifnder, I'm too fond and proud of it to cast it aside to "buy D&D" and go forward with that. And I respect D&D too much to want to try to turn it into a "Pathfinder game" if that makes any sense.
Ok, rephrase, if D&D went up for sale, would you, James Jacobs, like to see Paizo acquire it?
This makes me wonder. If you obtained the license for DnD stuff, would you be Creative Director for all of it, or would you be the Creative Director for just Golarion?
James, are their any plans to do an official Paizo Pathfinder Thief-Acrobat character class, or should we use the LPJ version or simply use the Acrobat Archetype to fill that Unearthed Arcana niche? I'm perfectly fine using either of the two I mentioned. Since you guys did a great Cavalier, and of course Barbarian (I love Amiri). I call these the D&D cartoon classes.
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Creative Director
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Do you ever feel there's such a thing as too much detail in a character?
And on an unrelated note, which overarching AP villain do you feel is the weakest in terms of characterization?
Yes... but kinda like movies... no WELL DONE character should ever overstay its welcome.
I'm not gonna say what AP villain I feel is the weakest in terms of characterization, since that's pretty close to asking "Which AP author do you feel did the worst job with a bad guy?" I'll leave the critiquing (and indeed, the praising), to non employees! :-)
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James, I am starting my final prep for running WotR starting on Friday and I was wondering if I could get some pointers on running the first encounter?
Specifically:
** spoiler omitted **Any thoughts?
I'd run the initial conversations in game as roleplay encounters, then allow Diplomacy checks after the players have a chance to chat the NPCs up. I'd pass out modifiers to their checks as needed—a +2 to players who roleplayed well or who were kind and supportive, or a –2 to players who were abusive or jerks or simply didn't roleplay at all and just rolled the check.
Then, I'd award more Diplomacy checks as the adventure went on, whenever the PCs had a particularly meaningful roleplaying exchange with an NPC, or perhaps after there's an NPC on NPC conflict that the PCs get involved in.
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Of the announced classes, other than the swashbuckler, what's your favorite one?
What sort of archetypes are you hoping to see for the swashbuckler?
I don't know what ones we've announced and what ones we haven't... nor have I yet looked at any of the rules. That information aside, and working SOLELY on the implied flavor of the classes, the swashbuckler is my favorite. It's one I've been trying to get into the game as a base class since Advanced Player's Guide. Been a while!
I'm not really into archetypes, honestly. Especially for new base classes. I'd rather play the base class a few times before looking at doing something else.