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I have a question about first level potion avaliblity in the society. In the start guide it says any 1st level potion 50 gps or less and any oil 100gps or less. In the Dmg the enlarge person potion costs 250gp but by the item creation rules it should cost 50gp. Also personal spells target one person so in the creation rules a shield spell should be able to be made and purchaseable for 50gp, but are not in the Dmg. So if i wanted to by an enlarge person potion is it open access and cost 50gp or is it 250gps and not open access and if it is not why is the cost higher then other 1st level spells in potion form. Also are all personal spell availible in potion form or are they not and if not why?
Thank you all in advance for your input.
Todd
Hey Todd!
Enlarge Person potions costing 250 is an error in the DMG - it's a holdover from 3.0 when Enlarge Person scaled by level up to 5th, so the potions in the DMG were at 5th level (5x1x50 = 250).
Personal spells have a target of "You", instead of "one creature" and thus are not able to be made into potions. [A hotly debated point of course.]
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Also personal spells target one person so in the creation rules a shield spell should be able to be made and purchaseable for 50gp, but are not in the Dmg.
Potions not listed in the DMG just 'do not exist', and thus are not available to purchase (or even brew).
So if i wanted to by an enlarge person potion is it open access and cost 50gp or is it 250gps and not open access and if it is not why is the cost higher then other 1st level spells in potion form.
Todd
Think a 50 gp enlarge person would be quite powerful in the hands of 1st level players and would unbalance encounters. The price was rised to 250gp to reflect the usefulness of this particular potion. And unfortunately you need a PFS adventure chronicle with that item listed to purchase it.
(And I don't think it is a pricing error cause there is no mention of it in the 3.5 DMG official errata, and 3.5 SRD still list it at 250gp: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35).
A potion of a 1st level spell costs 50 * caster level. Because enlarge person costs 250, it obviously has to have caster level 5.
See, no errors here with pricing.
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I would agree with ESSEL (potions of enlarge person costing 250gp is not a typo) but for different reasons. I have a crazy idea it had to do with enlarge person taking a full round to cast, vs. other potions on the DMG list all taking a standard action. My hare-brained theory that isn't backed-up anywhere is that the 1st lvl enlarge person spell was cast as a 5th level (quickened is lvl +4) spell to get past the one-round delay and comply with the potion rules in the DMG. 5th level spell cast at 1st level x 50GP = 250 GP. And in case you're wondering, the sky is green in my world :)
Director of Brand Strategy
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I would agree with ESSEL (potions of enlarge person costing 250gp is not a typo) but for different reasons. I have a crazy idea it had to do with enlarge person taking a full round to cast, vs. other potions on the DMG list all taking a standard action. My hare-brained theory that isn't backed-up anywhere is that the 1st lvl enlarge person spell was cast as a 5th level (quickened is lvl +4) spell to get past the one-round delay and comply with the potion rules in the DMG. 5th level spell cast at 1st level x 50GP = 250 GP. And in case you're wondering, the sky is green in my world :)
A higher caster level also increases the duration of the effect, which might be another reason to have a "minimum caster level" of 5 for the spell instead of 1.
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I would agree with ESSEL (potions of enlarge person costing 250gp is not a typo) but for different reasons. I have a crazy idea it had to do with enlarge person taking a full round to cast, vs. other potions on the DMG list all taking a standard action. My hare-brained theory that isn't backed-up anywhere is that the 1st lvl enlarge person spell was cast as a 5th level (quickened is lvl +4) spell to get past the one-round delay and comply with the potion rules in the DMG. 5th level spell cast at 1st level x 50GP = 250 GP. And in case you're wondering, the sky is green in my world :)A higher caster level also increases the duration of the effect, which might be another reason to have a "minimum caster level" of 5 for the spell instead of 1.
Yoda, I'm unclear if you were agreeing with me or offering your own take on the subject. I didn't mean to suggest a higher caster level if it came out that way. I theorized that a higher level caster could craft at a caster level below their actual, like a 10th level cleric who brews CL1 potions of cure light wounds. The quickened enlarge is a 5th level spell, but could be CL1 by design. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just find this puzzle interesting and have a pet theory. I'm eager to hear another explanation.
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Ring of force shield essentially grants you a +2 shield bonus to your AC as if you were wielding a heavy shield without needing to actually wield anything. It requires no hands to wield--just an open ring slot.
Potion of enlarge person, after further review, appears to be a holdover typo from 3.0. It should be a 50 gp potion at CL 1 (and is in the PRPG).
From the DMG pg 229:
"A potion or oil ... can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute."
From the DMG pg 229:
"A potion or oil ... can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute."
My presonal favourite is Oil of Animate Dead. ;-)
(Not so useful for Pathfinder Society play, of course.)
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From the DMG pg 229:
"A potion or oil ... can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute."
... Okay, though...
SRD, Feats:
Brew Potion: "Benefit: You can create a potion of any 3rd-level or lower spell that you know and that targets one or more creatures."
Ahhhhh, right. Oops.
In the DMG that entry is *supposed* to read:
"A potion or oil ... can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures."
In the PRPG book is says as much in both instances: under potions and again under Brew Potion.
That said, "self" isn't a target for the sake of "this spell targets X creature or creatures" so, no, you can't have potions of "self" cast. This also prevents potions of fireball, for example. (Though I think that would be HILARIOUS, frankly.)
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Question:
The spell Shield Other is a 2nd Level (cleric) spell that targets one individual, so it should be fair game for a potion, correct? Which character drinks it?
But since Find Traps is a 2nd Level spell with a target of "You", that's not considered a viable spell for a potion, correct?
Incidentally, here's an aside from Monte Cook's 2003 review of the 3.5 Core rulebooks:
Question:
The spell Shield Other is a 2nd Level (cleric) spell that targets one individual, so it should be fair game for a potion, correct? Which character drinks it?
The drinker of a potion is treated as both the caster and the target. So he'd be shielding himself. :-)
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Incidentally, here's an aside from Monte Cook's 2003 review of the 3.5 Core rulebooks:
** spoiler omitted **
See also: elixirs, which are potions-but-not-really, and which can easily be made to duplicate self-only spells if you want them to (in home games, that is, not PFS games).
It's not really a big enough deal to have been worth mentioning during the playtest, but I kinda hope that Jason decided to move all the elixirs into the potions list where they should have been all along.
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Potion of enlarge person, after further review, appears to be a holdover typo from 3.0. It should be a 50 gp potion at CL 1 (and is in the PRPG).
Hi Josh,
I still belive we have to deal here with a game balance issue, rather than a rule issue.
I think spiked chains will become very popular, cause you only need then to spend 50gp to get 20 feet reach....8)
(considering this potion becomes open access)
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Potion of enlarge person, after further review, appears to be a holdover typo from 3.0. It should be a 50 gp potion at CL 1 (and is in the PRPG).Hi Josh,
I still belive we have to deal here with a game balance issue, rather than a rule issue.
I think spiked chains will become very popular, cause you only need then to spend 50gp to get 20 feet reach....8)
(considering this potion becomes open access)
You have to spend 50 gp and 1 standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity to be able to get your 20 ft. reach for 1 minute. I'm not saying it's not a good option, but doing something more decicive on the 1st round of combat could be more useful.
In addition, that's only enough duration for 1 encounter, so to pull the trick off all the time would become a pretty steady drain of resources.
I always thought potions of fireball would make for interesting grenadelike weapons. :)
I've given out potions of Fireball in games before. I'm even nice enough to say if you die it affects anyone in the normal blast radius. Haven't had anyone use one yet.
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You have to spend 50 gp and 1 standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity to be able to get your 20 ft. reach for 1 minute. I'm not saying it's not a good option, but doing something more decicive on the 1st round of combat could be more useful.
In addition, that's only enough duration for 1 encounter, so to pull the trick off all the time would become a pretty steady drain of resources.
Okay, okay, I am fine with this 'new' ruling...
At conversion I expect to sell the 250gp potion I purchased for the full price, to get 5 potions instead 8).