If the GM allows them to, yes.
In organised play, no.
Outside of PF Society, there's no rule against it. Some DMs may or may not allow it, but you could say that of anything. RAW alone, nothing prevents it. Aside from PFS, which specifically forbids it, along with many many other things...
This is one of those things which the designers left up to individual GM's. So, if you are asking this question in order to point to it when you argue for your right to have the feat when your GM denies it, you will get no joy.
Jeremiziah, could you go into more detail please? I've seen no problem with it used on stunning fist (which has a problem getting through anyhow).
- Gauss
Using it with the witch´s hexes will cause problems, because those DCs are already quite high without it. With Ability Focus all the monsters well be sleeping very very fast.
Using it with the witch´s hexes will cause problems, because those DCs are already quite high without it. With Ability Focus all the monsters well be sleeping very very fast.
It'll cause problems for the target, that's for sure. I don't think it's a mechanical problem, though.
Using it with the witch´s hexes will cause problems, because those DCs are already quite high without it. With Ability Focus all the monsters well be sleeping very very fast.Well, there are oozes, undead, golems, and vermin for that.
oozes, undead, golems and vermin are still the minority of encounters.
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oozes, undead, golems and vermin are still the minority of encounters.Using it with the witch´s hexes will cause problems, because those DCs are already quite high without it. With Ability Focus all the monsters well be sleeping very very fast.Well, there are oozes, undead, golems, and vermin for that.
Maybe oozes, golems and vermin, but undead are/can be a major enemy. Depends on the AP or campaign.
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I've allowed Monster Manual aka Bestiary feats for all of 3E into PF, as have basically all of my DMs. It has never been a problem. With Witch's Slumber it might be, but that's more to do with Witch being balanced horribly (gets an awful mind-affecting will save focused narrow spell list and less spells per day than specialist wizard, "but hey in return, you can set enemies up for coup-de-grace all day long!") as a class than the fault of the bestiary feats...
Lets analyze this: A hex has a DC of 10+1/2witch level+int modifier. This is no different than primary class spells (of the maximum spell level). Example: Witch is 10th level and has 5th level spells. Her highest Spell DC is 10+5+ability mod. Her Hex is 10+10/2+ability mod.
Now: the witch can get spell focus <school> and greater spell focus <school> to add a +1 and +1 (+2total) to her DCs to one school. The witch is gaining +2 to the DC to ONE special ability (rather than an entire school of spells) with this feat. I see no problem.
Up until now everything is fine.
The point when this breaks down is when you factor in that hexes can be done all day long. As StreamOfTheSky said: The problem is with the Witch not with the feat. Frankly, a +2 to save DCs is not going to change this fact much.
- Gauss
I thought I read somewhere that the designers didn't intent for the bestiary to be used by players.
It wouldn't say anywhere that is CAN be used. Why is it a houserule to not allow a monster book only used by the GM?
Page 314 of the bestiary: Most of the following feats apply specifically to monsters, although some player characters might qualify for them (particularly Craft Construct).
- Gauss
Feats I can see a PC qualifying for:
Ability Focus
Awesome Blow (if large PC)
Craft Construct
Empower Spell-Like Ability
Flyby Attack (since most PCs do not have a fly speed without a spell this might be a GM fiat)
Hover (same as Flyby Attack)
Improved Natural Armor (some archetypes/feats grant Natural Armor thereby allowing access)
Improved Natural Attack (some abilities give natural weapons such as a half-orc with the feat Razortusk)
Quicken Spell-like Ability
Snatch (DM fiat if a huge wildshape applies)
Wingover (as per Flyby Attack)
Multiattack and Multiweapon fighting can only be qualified for if somehow a PC has 3 or more fighting limbs. I see no way (not even alchemist) to achieve this. Of course, I could be wrong.
- Gauss
Edit: I was wrong, as below several people have mentioned that Multiattack is relatively easily qualified for. Multiweapon is a maybe still.
A synthesist summoner should be able to qualify for Multiattack, depending on the chosen evolutions.
Gauss. Multiattack requires 3 or more natural attacks, not limbs. In order for it to do anything some of those attacks have to be secondary. I.E. A witch's hair and nails.
Are: I can see that, was thinking more along the lines of PCs themselves rather than being fused with an eidolon. However, you are right that could work.
- Gauss
Gauss. Multiattack requires 3 or more natural attacks, not limbs. In order for it to do anything some of those attacks have to be secondary. I.E. A witch's hair and nails.
Doh, you are right. I read them too fast together. LOL That means that many builds can qualify for Multiattack (although Multiweapon is still pretty limited).
- Gauss
The proper counter to the slumber hex is to have minions. A standard action wakes a sleeper. If a BBEG knows about the witch, he can have his familiar ready an action to wake him when he falls asleep.
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Using it with the witch´s hexes will cause problems, because those DCs are already quite high without it. With Ability Focus all the monsters well be sleeping very very fast.
Yep, I was in fact specifically referring to Misfortune.
Makes levels 1 through approximately 6 almost a cakewalk, especially in adventures where the party routinely takes on one thing at a time (Kingmaker, I'm looking at you).
RAW doesn't really state whether Bestiary feats are allowed for PCs. The earlier quote seems to imply that the GM should arbitrate that. So, in effect, any decision on the matter is a house rule.
I don't find Slumber that unbalancing. The party only has one witch (usually), so that only hits one enemy per turn. Meanwhile, another enemy can just wake the fallen foe up as an action. I've started to steer away from single enemy fights for reasons like this, with a few exceptions.
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For me - and this is only my own opinion - I prefer to not have to adjust my vision for a plot arc or an enemy based on party proclivities. I want things to just work and be sufficiently challenging. That's not always possible, certainly, but Ability Focus combined with a few of the witch hexes makes it tougher than it needs to be.
The CR system isn't perfect, but it gets you in the ballpark... at least until almost every. single. monster. has to roll 2 d20s for everything they do and take the lowest roll.
That seems a bit hyperbolic....Witchie Witch can only misfortune one monster a round (until 10th level), and it only lasts one round until 8th level. And they get a save. And it only works once per target (even if they make their save).
A different party member would just blow their face off instead (see: alchemist).
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Combine with cackle for best effects. Ability Focus and stat dumping makes the Save DC prohibitively high at low levels.
I'm just citing my experience. Next time you get the chance to roll a character in a non-PFS game and the GM is cool with it, try it out. It's like easy mode.
Note that there is some debate over whether cackle effects Misfortune the way I'm saying - "works once" combined with the verbiage from Cackle seems to conflict. In my group, we concluded that misfortune's duration on a target is effected by cackle. YMMV.
I am going to agree with Blahpers, at least in partial and with all of you as well.
Although it states the GM can allow, I don't think it would be considered a houserule to not allow. It's an option, and not a requirement.
It seems that most of the arguments against allowing Ability Focus still seem to be the witch hex issues. Are there ANY others besides witch hexes?
- Gauss
So I have a inquiry in this can you take this dm allowing of course. For any spell casting class ie sorcerers wizards druids paladins rangers so on and so forth I'm unclear about this due to one of the posts above "Lets analyze this: A hex has a DC of 10+1/2witch level+int modifier. This is no different than primary class spells (of the maximum spell level). Example: Witch is 10th level and has 5th level spells. Her highest Spell DC is 10+5+ability mod. Her Hex is 10+10/2+ability mod." Makes me think that this should work
That's quite the necro.
GM allowing, of course a spell-casting class can take the feat; nothing says being able to cast spells excludes you from taking the feat.
If you're asking whether you can apply it to the abilities named "spells" or "spell casting", then you cannot. But many of these classes also have unique abilities that one could use Ability Focus on. A sorcerer might boost one of their bloodline abilities, a cleric one of their domain powers, and so on.