Phalanx Soldier and Furious Focus


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

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Would a Level 3 Phalanx Soldier wielding a shield and Glaive be able to make use of the Furious Focus feat?

Phalanx Fighting (Ex): At 3rd level, when a phalanx soldier wields a shield, he can use any polearm or spear of his size as a one-handed weapon.

Furious Focus (Combat): When you are wielding a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon with two hands...

A) Yes, the Glaive is still a two-handed weapon, even though he is using it as a one-handed weapon

B) No, he isn't using both hands, so it doesn't count as wielding a two-handed weapon

For reference, the wording is also the same for Power Attack: "This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon..."

but not for two-handed strength bonus: "When you deal damage with a weapon that you are wielding two-handed, you add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus..."


I would say (B) -- the Phalanx Fighting ability makes it into a one-handed weapon wielded with one hand.


Grick wrote:

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Would a Level 3 Phalanx Soldier wielding a shield and Glaive be able to make use of the Furious Focus feat?

Phalanx Fighting (Ex): At 3rd level, when a phalanx soldier wields a shield, he can use any polearm or spear of his size as a one-handed weapon.

Furious Focus (Combat): When you are wielding a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon with two hands...

A) Yes, the Glaive is still a two-handed weapon, even though he is using it as a one-handed weapon

B) No, he isn't using both hands, so it doesn't count as wielding a two-handed weapon

For reference, the wording is also the same for Power Attack: "This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon..."

but not for two-handed strength bonus: "When you deal damage with a weapon that you are wielding two-handed, you add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus..."

Its still a two-handed weapon regardless of how you are wielding it [A] by RAW. Some GMs may rule this as [B] RAI.


That's one of the problems of copy-paste......(3.x copy-> PF RPG paste)

The B is the correct answer

As for Power Attack how can you wield a two-handed weapon with one hand?(with the exception of phalanx fighting) And even if you could why add +50% dmg when you attack with only the one hand? These typos are remnants of an old and glorius era :)

Dark Archive

"...he can use any polearm or spear of his size as a one-handed weapon."

Since it's being used as a one-handed weapon, it gets the qualities of a one-handed weapon. Namely, only full strength bonus to damage. Still, one-handed reach weapon with shield. Usually you'd have to go with a whip.


Mergy is correct. It gains the qualities of a one handed weapon when wielded that way.

Its one of the very few ways to gain reach while weilding a sheild. There are numerous ways this can be utilized to great benefit.

One suggestion for the phalanx fighter...theres a feat in the faction guide, I think its dwarf only though, that lets you treat any reach (or polearm?) weapon as having the brace property. This would let you wield a non brace reach weapon, such as the lovely tripping guisarme and still gain the benefits of the immediate action brace ability of the phalanx fighter.

Contributor

Grick wrote:

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Would a Level 3 Phalanx Soldier wielding a shield and Glaive be able to make use of the Furious Focus feat?

Phalanx Fighting (Ex): At 3rd level, when a phalanx soldier wields a shield, he can use any polearm or spear of his size as a one-handed weapon.

Furious Focus (Combat): When you are wielding a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon with two hands...

A) Yes, the Glaive is still a two-handed weapon, even though he is using it as a one-handed weapon

B) No, he isn't using both hands, so it doesn't count as wielding a two-handed weapon

For reference, the wording is also the same for Power Attack: "This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon..."

but not for two-handed strength bonus: "When you deal damage with a weapon that you are wielding two-handed, you add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus..."

The phalangites of the Macedonian phalanx wielded a sarissa in both hands and wore a shield. You could just rule that they do the same (or if you figure it requires extra training, make another feat for it, with Phalanx Fighting as a prereq).


hank woon where are you from?

About the Macedonian Phalanx : the shield Macedonians Phalanx soldiers (Μακεδόν& ;#949;ς Φαλαγγί& #964;ες) used was a kind of a large buckler (originally called όπλον->οπ λίτης and in english hoplites=hoplon users ), giving them less protection than the shields the other Greek Hoplites where using, but leaving their off-hand free for wielding the really(i mean really) long spear called σάρισσα wich was 6.5-7.4m long.

In PF RPG spear-like weapons are not even close to these numbers, and to possibly use a Macedonian Spear would require feats like monkey's grip or size large :D. So use a buckler and hold any two-handed weapon. I think there are a few 3.x stuff that lets you gain the shield bonus to AC from a buckler even if you attack with an off-hand or a two-handed weapon

:( It doesnt accept Greek alphabet

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

I wrote the fighter archetypes but not Furious Focus, and my statements are not official errata, but:

It's B.

With Phalanx Fighting, you are using the polearm one-handed. Furious Focus explicitly calls out that you must be wielding the weapon with two hands. When using Phalanx Fighting, you're not. End of argument.

Contributor

wild_captain wrote:

hank woon where are you from?

Seattle, WA, USA (well, Aberdeen, originally).

"(The phalangite) is a lochagos and...carries a 15ft sarissa and his rimless shield is held by a neck strap which permits him to grip the heavy spear with both hands when in battle."

Warry, John Gibson. Warfare in the Classical World: an Illustrated Encyclopedia of Weapons, Warriors, and Warfare in the Ancient Civilisations of Greece and Rome. Norman: University of Oklahoma, 1995.

Here is a pic I scanned for reference (note how they use their left elbows to brace the shield):

MACEDONIAN PHALANX

This book is really awesome, btw.


I'd say you can't because you are only using 1 hand. You can use furious focus on one handed weapon if you use both hands to wield it so I'd figure the reverse would true if you used a two handed weapon with one hand. Like say using a small two handed sword with one hand when you are a medium creature. Technically the weapon is two handed but since you use it one handed no Furious Focus for you!


Quote: The phalangites of the Macedonian phalanx wielded a sarissa in both hands and wore a shield.

I am so much happier now I have realized that Hank was not suggesting that Macedonia infantry was dual wielding sarissas.

During the campaigns of Alexander, the sarissas even got longer. Parmenion worked out that sarissas were easier to control when counter balanced. The sarissas often had a pommel on the far back called an apple. The other upside was that if a sarissa was broken in half both sides could effectively be used as a weapon.

I absolutely disagree that Macedonian shields were bucklers. They were without the heavy metal rims that other hoplites were using as they went back to using rawhide. The shields were strapped around the necks. If you put your fists together on your sternum, the shield would have covered your elbows if it was centered on your chest.

I could dig out ancient source material if anyone really cares.

Personally I have only used a 12 foot spear with a shield [Regia Anglorum]. I found it difficult, but not impossible. The spear is used like a pool cue to stab, that way you use your off hand to control the spear and the shield, while keeping the other side of the shield steady with your elbow. It is a functional tactic while in a formation, but as soon as the formation breaks up you drop the spear and draw a sidearm or die pretty quickly.

I love that we have turned a simple rules question into a show of history geek bravado.

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