That's pretty neat. But it seems off somewhere, as the parts total up to 36, not 35. I haven't looked at the formulae enough to see where though. But I will.
- - - - -
So I was thinking about some character designs that I've been wanting to play for a while, but I need both some creative direction. I know there are no alignments, but, as a bridgeburner, would we be more inclined towards the "saving people" or the "slaughtering people" bend? Are we more of an "honorable" group or a "get it done at all costs" group? What are we known for amongst the general public?
- - - - -
Rules wise, would we pick class features as we acquire them? Or will we need to construct a "filled out" class and propose it?
Are the features in class archetypes allowed?
What about things like sorcerer bloodline powers (each individual power as a separate class feature)? Or the powers from cleric domains? Or wizard school specialist powers?
And I think I know the answer to this, but it is ok to refluff class features as long as no power is added to the feature because of it, right?
Yeah, it's bit off, because I did not found a way to round it precisely. Else we would have 15,75 hp, and that don't really work. :D
About classes, I've been thinking about what IronDesk said. It maybe, if we allow each one of you create your own 'archetypes', that would give the game a very 'personal' touch, but I find it really cool to have a 'free-for-all' char. That way, you can be a little bit of everything. Gives it a more real feeling, because no one is would be really that focused as they are in pathfinder system.
I'll think a bit more about the magic system and then I'll write it all up. Sorry I've been busy those last days and had not time to do as I promised.
==//==
"First in, last out."
―Bridgeburners Motto
***
Forging
During the conquest of Seven Cities, the unit that would become the Bridgeburners were tasked with hunting down a Cabal of thirteen mages which fled through the Pan'potsun Wastes and across the Holy Desert Raraku. For the pursuit, the company under the command of Whiskeyjack were given a Claw agent who was native to Seven Cities, Kalam.
During the chase, body after body was found but the unit was itself nearing death. As they approached the edge of the Raraku desert, they came upon the last remaining mage Quick Ben. During the following confrontation, Kalam was revealed to be in league with him and accused of attempting to lead the unit to it's death whilst crossing Raraku. Seeing the changes in the soldiers wrought on them by Raraku, Quick Ben and Kalam were stunned, and they pledged their allegiance to the unit. Ultimately they were brought into the company itself, naming it the 'Bridgeburners' because Raraku had burned the bridges of their pasts, of who they once were.
In the Time of the Emperor
During the reign of Emperor Kellanved, the Bridgeburners were considered his own elite, his favorites. At this time the Bridgeburners comprised a division of soldiers and were led by the 2nd Army's Commander Whiskeyjack.
In the Time of the Empress
When Empress Laseen assassinated both Kellanved and Dancer, ascending to the imperial throne she inverted the command structure of the military, discarding the Old Family and dismembering the Old Guard. The Bridgeburners were no exception, being placed into the dirtiest and hardest of campaigns for nearly a decade. Commander Whiskeyjack was demoted to the rank of Sergeant and placed under the command of his one time subordinate Dujek Onearm.
Oh, I wasn't asking about the magic system. Here, let me give you an example.
One of the character concepts I have been thinking about is a 'Noble Dragoon' style character: very much a 'stand up for the people' kind of guy, probably religious, and very fast, emotionally, with his spear, and on his feet.
I was just kind of browsing through the different class features and ran across this Bloodline power in the APG:
PRD - APG - Sorcerer Bloodline - Stormborn wrote:
Thunderstaff (Sp): At 1st level, you can touch a weapon as a standard action, giving it the shock property for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level (minimum 1). At 9th level, you can confer the shocking burst property instead, but the duration of the power is halved. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
Given our discussion about magic being more of a 'at will, multi-effect' thing, I figured this could be described as his natural 'aura' coming out, and his association with lightning also works thematically with his 'speed' thing.
History
The Malazan Empire was founded in 1058 Burn's Sleep. In the decades leading up to this point, the continent of Quon Tali had become embroiled in a series of power struggles between the feuding city-states, with the Kingdom of Unta establishing itself as a considerable military power on the continent. When Unta annexed the Napan Isles as a prelude for its planned invasion of Kartool Island, many refugees were displaced, some landing on Malaz Island to the southeast. At this time, Malaz Island was ruled by a cold-blooded pirate lord namedMock, whose formidable criminal organization controlled the whole island and had many contacts on the mainland. Mock sold many of the refugee Napans to the Untans, aside from a few who escaped with the help of factions on the island opposed to Mock.
Foremost of these factions were Kellanved and Dancer, a powerful mage and a master assassin from the mainland who had settled on Malaz Island and opened a bar. They recruited among the island's criminal element and employed refugee Napans, offering them the chance to take revenge against Unta and liberate their homeland. Kellanved, Dancer, a boy working for them named Dujek, and Napan refugees Amaron, Hawland Nok . This group continued to expand their 'family', recruiting the Napan brothers Cartharon and Urko Crust, a Napan barmaid named Surly, a formidable Dal Honese sword fighter named Dassem Ultor, a soldier named Duiker plucked out to become a historian and a refugee high priest of D'rek from Kartool named Tayschrenn. With this family Kellanved overthrew Mock and his criminal organization and established himself as the supreme ruler of Malaz Island. Using the refugee Napans, hungry for vengeance against Unta, as the core of his military and magical forces, Kellanved led Malaz in a war against the mainland, against the odds seizing Unta and expanding across the continent of Quon Tali. The Napans were initially pleased, having used Kellanved to liberate the Napan Isles, but became disillusioned as the Napan Isles swapped the yoke of Unta for the yoke of the swiftly growing Malazan Empire.
Over the next century, the Malazan Empire sprawled across Quon Tali, eventually seizing control of the entire continent. The Empire's trading fleets were soon growing rich from trading with Korel to the south-east, Seven Cities to the north and Genabackis to the north-east. Explorations of the landmass immediately to the west of Quon Tali (south-west of Seven Cities and part of the same landmass) were curtailed by the unrelenting hostile intransigence of the Shal-Morzinn Empire, whose formidable magical might gave even Kellanved pause. Instead the Malazan Empire expanded into Seven Cities, seizing control of the subcontinent in a bloody war. During this time Emperor Kellanved gained control of the clans of the undead T'lan Imass. Despite the vast and formidable power of the undead army, Kellanved used the undead warriors sparingly. During one incident the Imass brutally sacked the Holy City of Aren, slaughtering the inhabitants en masse. After this incident, Kellanved apparently did not use the overwhelming military might of the Imass again. By the war's conclusion the subcontinent was subdued, but wore the Malazan yoke uneasily. A massive rebellion erupted some years later, a rebellion during which the Empire's First Sword, Dassem Ultor, was lost at Y'Ghatan.
By 1154 Burn's Sleep the Empire was conducting military incursions into both Genabackis and Korel. By this year Kellanved and Dancer had been missing for several years. Upon their return late in this year, they were promptly assassinated by Surly, who named herself Laseen and took the royal throne herself. Many of the loyal old guard were demoted or scattered to distant parts of the Empire to reduce their threat to Laseen.
Geography
By 1163 Burn's Sleep, the Malazan Empire extends across four continents: Quon Tali, Seven Cities, Genabackis and Korel, plus numerous surrounding islands. Although born in Malaz City, onMalaz Island off the south-eastern coast of Quon Tali, the Empire's capital is Unta on the mainland's eastern coast.
Quon Tali
The continent of Quon Tali is the smallest of the major landmasses and contains several major cities other than Unta, namely Cawn, Li Heng and Quon City. There are two major wilderness areas of plains, controlled by native horsewarriors. In the west lies the plains of the Seti, whilst in the north-east lie the Wickan Plains. In the south-west lies the plains of Dal Hon, but these are relatively tamed in comparison. The most significant island off the coast of Quon Tali other than Malaz is Kartool due east from Quon Tali and to the north of Malaz Island. Off the north-eastern coast of Quon Tali lies an extensive chain of islands, the Falari Isles, which were the Empire's first major overseas conquest.
Seven Cities
A few hundred leagues north and west of the Falari Isles lies the subcontinent of Seven Cities. The landmass it is attached to is vast, also consisting of plains in the west and desert to the south-west. Beyond these wilderness regions lie remote nations known to the Malazans only on maps or through brief contacts, namely Perish, Nemil and powerful Shal-Morzinn. Seven Cities itself is a vast, dry land of open plains and dusty wastes known as odhans, filled with hostile tribes. The Malazans control Seven Cities by maintaining a strong standing army (the 7th Army, based at Hissar; another army is based at Aren), commanding local militias loyal to Unta (the most notorious being the Red Blades) and holding onto their continental capital - Aren on the south coast - with an unshakable grip. The Malazan Empire also claims Otataral Island off the north-east coast (where slave camps mine the valuable magic-resisting otataral mineral for the Empire) and numerous islands off Seven Cities' north coast, the strongest of which is Sepik.
Genabackis
Nearly 1,600 leagues east of Seven Cities lies Genabackis. The Malazan Empire controls a wide swath of the north of the continent, including eight of the ten Free Cities which dominate trade on the continent. However, the Malazan conquest is incomplete. The 2nd Army - Onearm's Host under High Fist Dujek Onearm - is bogged down in the siege of Pale, whilst the 5th Army is having problems holding the north against repeated attacks by the Crimson Guard, the Mott Irregulars and the other local armies and mercenaries commanded by the Warlord, Caladan Brood, and his formidable ally,Anomander Rake of the Tiste Andii of Moon's Spawn. The Malazan continental capital on Genabackis is Genabaris on the north-western coast.
Korel
Many hundreds of leagues south-east of Malaz Island lay the continent of Korel. According to legend the continent was shattered in the fall of the Crippled God, leaving two island subcontinents (named Korel in the north and Stratem in the south) filled with lakes and surrounded by thousands of islands. The Malazan Empire's conquest began with the island of Theft off the north coast and then moved onto the mainland. However, the north of Korel was a nightmare to hold with vast stretches of open territory surrounding the Malazan occupation zone. The nations and cities of Korel had united against the Malazans to form the Korelri Compact and in later years have managed to stall the advance of the Malazans under their commander, Greymane. Attempts by the Malazans to rescue the situation subsequently failed. The Korelri also maintained the Stormwall, a defensive fortification along the north coast that defends the continent from attack by the Stormriders, sorcerer-spirits of the Sea of Storms.
The Malazan Empire is aware of the existence of continents lying to the east of Korelri, including Assail (and presumably Jacuruku), but has made no further explorations or military adventures in those areas.
Government
The Empire is ruled by the Empress Laseen, who rules through an extensive bureaucracy. The second in command is the Adjunct, who is seen as a direct extension of the Empress herself. Each continent is governed by a High Fist (Pormqual on Seven Cities, Dujek on Genabackis and Greymane on Korelri) who disseminates orders via the Fists. Fists are both military commanders of armies and also governors of cities and strongholds. Where possible the Malazans use local rulers, religions and customs to rule, creating a continuity of control from the pre-Imperial regime which should reduce the risk of natives banding together patriotically to eject the foreigners. In some areas, however, a more direct subjugation by force is necessary.
Alongside this formal structure, the Empire also employs a network of spies and assassin called "Claws", who are used to monitor and control both the subject population and the imperial soldiers and bureaucrats. They have their own chain of command outside the normal Malazan military system, and answer directly only to the Empress herself. Prior to Empress Laseen's ascension to the imperial throne, said network was called the Talon. The chain of command was similar to the Claw except at the point of answering to Dancer, the Emperor's second, whereas the Claw only answer to the Empress.
Military
The Malazan imperial military has often confronted numerically superior enemies and triumphed over them. The secret of its success lies in its superior organization, training, weapons, and tactics. Unlike almost all of its opponents (except some mercenary companies), the imperial military is a professional force. Despite its relatively small size (considering the size of its empire), it has a formidable and well earned reputation.
The army is organized to the designs of the master tactician Dassem Ultor. The Empire maintains roughly 100,000 men under arms, divided into ten armies. When an army is destroyed or disbanded, a fresh army is created rather than an old number re-used.
Malazan military formations include skirmishers, scouts, heavy and medium infantry, heavy cavalry, lancers, marines and sappers. Sappers are equipped with alchemical munitions, which originate from the Empire's enigmatic allies, the Moranth of Genabackis. The Empire's use of munitions, which no other nation possesses, has been of significant help in its ongoing wars. The Empire also uses crossbowmen, although as well as dedicated missile formations it also trains many regular infantry in the use of crossbows as well, allowing the infantry to rain fire on the enemy before closing to engage. Onearm's Host also employs javelins which are thrown into the enemy ranks just before engaging them in melee.
The Malazan method of warfare favours large-scale field engagements. In guerrilla warfare situations, such as those that exist in Blackdog Forest and Mott Wood in northern Genabackis, or on the plains of Korelri, it is less effective.
It is widely believed that the Malazan Empire has control of at least one clan of the T'lan Imass, 20 000 undead warriors who are virtually impossible to kill without magical aid, do not require food or rest, and can turn into dust and travel vast distances quickly, even over seas. The Imass have not been used since the brutal sack of Aren.
The Empire employs powerful Mage cadres in battle, but with High Mages and even less powerful mages at a premium, not every engagement can count on magical support.
Oh, I wasn't asking about the magic system. Here, let me give you an example.
One of the character concepts I have been thinking about is a 'Noble Dragoon' style character: very much a 'stand up for the people' kind of guy, probably religious, and very fast, emotionally, with his spear, and on his feet.
I was just kind of browsing through the different class features and ran across this Bloodline power in the APG:
PRD - APG - Sorcerer Bloodline - Stormborn wrote:
Thunderstaff (Sp): At 1st level, you can touch a weapon as a standard action, giving it the shock property for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level (minimum 1). At 9th level, you can confer the shocking burst property instead, but the duration of the power is halved. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
Given our discussion about magic being more of a 'at will, multi-effect' thing, I figured this could be described as his natural 'aura' coming out, and his association with lightning also works thematically with his 'speed' thing.
That is the kind of thing I was thinking about.
I found it very neat and interesting.
My goal, is to give truly freedom when creating characters.
That's why this is a private game. I've been gaming with each of you for some time now, and I know you favor history as much combat, and I know that while we may discuss and have some strong characters, no one will willing abuse this freedom in rulebreaking ways!
Ya I think I've started to get my character concept down. I've been eyeing the dimensional line of feats for a while and always wanted a character that could actually use them. This sort of open freedom might finally give me the ability to make a class where they could be actually viable to use.
Thinking about a character who seems to move supernaturally quickly around the battlefield, the guy/gal that always seems to appear at precisely the right moment to block that incoming blade aimed for the back of his fellow soldiers.
Plus would I think would mesh well with what Melasoul is thinking about.
This is not to make char powerful or anything like that.
But as rule, I was thinking on the following:
There are some class features that are considered 'key' for that particular class.
Key features can only be swapped by other key features.
Also, the level should ‘match’.
Meaning that, abilities that stack, they will just add +d6, as they are acquired.(Talking about sneak attack here in particular.)
Man, It has never been so hard trying to explain something in English! >.<
I’ll create an example to illustrate better:
I pick up a base class: fighter.
Bonus feat appears to be the class main feature.
Now, I want to exchange it for a bloodline power from sorcerer. Notice that I’ll not acquire the bloodline, just it’s power.
So, now, my fighter, instead of a bonus feat, has: Thunderstaff (Sp): At 1st level, you can touch a weapon as a standard action, giving it the shock property for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level (minimum 1). At 9th level, you can confer the shocking burst property instead, but the duration of the power is halved. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
Let’s get another example:
The same fighter, now at level 3, want to swap his armor training. This is not a main class feature, so I can’t choose a main from other classes. Meaning I will not be able to pick up the bloodline power from sorc.
But since I want a character that’ll move faster and be agile in battlefield, I’ll swap Armor training with: Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a monk gains an enhancement bonus to his land speed, as shown on Table: monk. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed. Since there’s this armor restriction, and a fighter has to use armor, we can consider it the same as the barbarian, when in light armor and not in a heavy load.
What do you think?
Mostly, I'm not so concerned with the 'power' issue. If you want something, and that something will make a strong 'combo', we can just tune it down a bit. Meaning you char will still be as you imagined it, and will not overshadow any other.
@Blond,Melason
Know what I've been thinking about?
Rose would love this. :D
Oh Rose would love this alright, but she is what I would classify as a power gamer to the core. I'd be scared to see the stupidly crazy OP combo she would try and pull off with this type of freedom.
Outside of that I love this Idea. Makes it simple and easy to deal with. but what about this whole magic thing? We've got character creation, but still haven't really gone into how we're going to screw with the magic system. Or are we just going to stick with pathfinder magic?
I've been really busy those last couple of days, and keeping my free time trying to maintain my games with a good posting rate. Pilled on that, there are university homework, tests, driving lessons and sleeping about 3~4 hours per day.
I never thought I would say this, but I'm almost without time! :D
I'll try my best, to write it this weekend. Only I still have to read about mage spell system and such.
Agreed about Rose. Not that there is anything wrong with being a power gamer, it's just not the kind of play we (the royal we) are looking for.
And that is a neat idea, but I have some concerns about what counts as the "primary class feature" of a class. Is the primary class feature of the sorcerer it's bloodline or it's spellcasting?
Is the primary class feature of a wizard his Arcane Bond or his magic school powers?
For the ranger, is his "primary class feature" his combat style, his favored enemy, or his favored terrain?
For druids, is it Nature Bond? Or all of the various side powers?
I'm just not sure that some classes have 'key' class features.
- - - - -
I'm fine with us presenting and judging classes based on the templates provided earlier, or even just a few levels at a time.
- - - - -
Or, and while this might be a lot more work, I just remembered something I have run across before:
It's a (badly made) guide to building classes by giving the various features point values. Then you can compare classes based on total point cost and see how they fit with each other.
The concept isn't a bad one (though that implementation certainly is), but we would have to work together to come up with point categories and to come to an agreement on where abilities lie.
Primary Class Features are a tough one to discern. What I might suggest is if you want to add a class feature that has iterative benefits, it must replace something that also provides iterative benefits if you want it to grow, and cannot gain additional iterations through swaps with other abilities (similar to how you cannot have 2 archetypes that alter the same class feature).
so in the above example: If the fighter wanted a bloodline power. He could replace Armor Training with Bloodline. He loses all 5 levels of Armor Training (+ Armor Mastery) and in lieu gets the bloodline. He would then every time he would have increased his armor training instead gain a new bloodline power. The initial switch should provide him with the bloodline arcana and 1st level power (as both are gained at the same level). For the bloodline switch I would propose to add the bonus feats to his allowed list of bonus feats.
spells are being redefined anyways so bloodlines spells don't really matter at this point in time.
This means for things like sneak attack. You could also replace say bravery with sneak attack, but your sneak attack would cap at 5d6, if he wanted all the iteration of sneak attack he would have to give up his bonus feat class feature.
The big caveat would be that I don't think their should be any means of gaining a different classes BAB, Saves, Spellcasting, skills/lvl or HP.
I think the ultimate answer should be for each of us to design what we think our character could be at say lvl 10 or 20, and then we review and alter if deemed just to crazy or overpowered.
Adding to this: If you wanted to switch something that goes up every single level (like say Nature's Bond, or Arcane Bond) then if you want it to iterate every level it has to replace an ability that Iterates every level.
For example: If you really want to be a fight that has a companion... Just be a ranger, and switch FE for bonus feats, Terrain for Armor Mastery, and Combat Style feats for Weapon Mastery.
That doesn't work for things like skills and saves though.
And what about things like Divine Grace? It is better than Bravery in almost every situation, but it is only gained once.
And does that mean that a Monks unarmed damage is equivalent to 6 fighter bonus feats since it only increases 6 times? But if I want the entirety of slow fall I would need to give up 9 feats?
I think the problem is the assumption that every class feature is equally powerful, and that is clearly not true.
- - - - -
So I have a proposal. How about we just build classes? Ignore templates, ignore counting numbers of class features, and just create a class from all of the pieces parts we have available to us. Then we can compare them and see who is weak, who is strong, and who is just right, and we can tweak as needed?
That works for me. I think we are getting a bit too caught up in all the nitty grity especially for a four person party. Let's make our characters and adjust so everyone in the party is roughly equal in power (even if that means its a high power game) I trust Aku enough to make things interesting. Kinda like this horrible way above our CR fight he has us doing right now...
Yeah, I'm pretty sure we're boned. The Magister fight has me worried most of all. We can take the mooks, and if we can get in a good, defensive position, we can probably take the Lord. But we are kind of hurting right now, and the Magister should be at just the right level to have painful AoE spells.
I never made any judgements about you or the scenario. You can have done everything right (which you did) and we could still be boned. : )
This is just going to be rough since we won't have time to recover between powerful foes. The only good news is that we have a fairly defensive position right now.
This has been a fantastic campaign just in general.
It's a decent position defensively. and if we can fortify for even a couple of round we can get everyone back up to full health.... plus it's a mostly martial party, so extended fights aren't as horrible as they could be.
plus it would be some entertaining to watch the Magister walk in and get hit with permanent deafness (if Nahia has it prepared). Now that would be funny.
I know I'll sound a bit bitter, but I always try my best to keep a feeling of tension in my games, of 'I don't know what will happen' thing. Sometimes, I push the players in a direction deliberately, and really, and when some players starts questioning how that happen really kill all the immersion.
@blondebandit, No deafness. But I do plan to spit poison in his face to blind him and have him start taking con damage.
@Aku, Well, as you can tell, there is still tension there for me. I think we have the priest and the soldiers under control for now, but if the Magister AND the Lord show up at the same time, it might be time to try running the $#*& away.
I think a lot of players forget the golden rule of the DM has final say. I mean granted it hurts when you're trying to gimmick the system a bit, and the DM feels differently then you do, but as soon as I try and do something outside obvious rules, I try to leave it to the DM discretion completely (ran into this the other day where our DM had us stuck behind a really solid wooden door, to which my tiefling shrugged her shoulders and tried to burn it down with her mass amount of candles.).
ya Aku I'm absolutely loving the game. When I'm sitting there going well s@&* okay what would Seren do? okay now slightly less important, but what should Seren do to improve this situation? It's a good time. Then i find myself refreshing my campaign page every 5 minutes to see the latest update.
Okay, here is what I was thinking about the magic system:
Magic will be divided into warrens.
Each warren has one specific kind of magic.
Every Warren will have some basic uses, i.e, (Universal spells, and those spells used to make someone body's stronger.)
Every Warren will be able to create some effects similar to evocation, to blast things with raw power. (You could, in this case, consult the spell list and find one effect you want to emulate, or you could use the spell rules creation, to create your own.)
Healing magic still exists, but it works in different ways.To conjure healing magic, you'll need access to Denul warren. The amount healed will be healed at rate of 1 point per minute, until it's total points where healed.
Meaning, if you cast an spell and heal 19 points, it would take 19 minutes to heal it all. The healer will have the option, to stay with the injured person, and augment and make this healing happen faster, at his own power expense. Meaning: Healing is not something done in combat.
Then, the rest of the spell, would be used following this template:
Aral Gamelon: The Path of Demons, allows the summoning and control of demons; related to Hood's Path. (Summoning magic enters here.)
Denul: The Path of Healing; allows treatment of injuries and diseases. (Healing and magic's that remove bad effects.)
D'riss: The Path of the Stone; allows petrification of wood and passage through solid stone, the flesh of the Sleeping Goddess Burn. (Earth related magics)
Hood's Path: The Path of Death; allows animation of corpses, communication with spirits and control over demons. (Necromancy magic's)
Imperial: Formerly Kallor's Empire, made into a warren by the Elder god K'rul to contain the destruction of a continent. (Dead Warren, no magic from it.)
Meanas: The Path of Shadow and Illusion, allows the manipulation of colour and sound. (Illusion magic's)
Mockra: The Path of the Mind, allows manipulation of thoughts and emotions of individuals and groups. (Mind effect magic's)
Ruse: The Path of the Sea, allows manipulation of pressure and summoning of underwater creatures. (Water related magic's)
Rashan: The Path of Darkness, allows concealment through shadow. (Darkness related magic's)
Serc: The Path of the Sky, allows travel through the air and the perception of and movement through the temperature and layers of gasses in the air. (Air related magics)
Telas: The Path of Fire, allows powerful blasts of fire. (Fire related Magic's)
Tennes: The Path of the Land. (Nature related magic's)
Thyr: The Path of Light. (Light related magic's.)
When creating a practitioner, you select an warren.
You char level, will determine, what 'level of power' you can manifest. This means that, a level 3 char, could emulate level2 spells and so on (If you go full caster.).
Based on that initial excel sheet, as you get stronger, you may learn to access another warrens.
You'll have a hidden number of Magic points. Each spell will use a number of points, based on the spell power. When you run dry of magic points, your hp is used in it's place.
Ability to cast an spell is not something you can trade. You need to start with a spellcasting class to use it. Wizards and Sorcerer will have lots more of magic points, while clerics , because of its martial power, will have less. Paladin like classes get a small amount of spellcasting after level 5. And there's the hybrid classes such as summons's that get spell only until level 6 spells.
Druid is fine, but will be called shaman, bonecaster, wildspirit or anything wild-line as those, and the wild shape ability will be something else. I'll pick up one form only, and that form will become stronger as you level up. And you'll be called Soletaken, and usually will be feared and hunted down and lots more.
Channel like abilities don't exists anymore, neither smite-like abilities.
Warrens are not the only form of magic that exists.
There are older version of magic, that can't interact directly with the warren magic. Humans however don't have access to those source of power, they are racial aligned.
Exemple:
I'll create a full caster, meaning I'll pick up the wizard.
It has less class feature than the other classes, but it's stronger in magical power.
Arcane school is replaced by Warren, which I selected Mockra. Cantrips and Scribe scroll is removed.
Arcane bond will stay, working basically in the same way.
I'm at level 5, I'll swap bonus feat for any other class feature.
At this level, I can perform the basics mind affecting powers, as described on the spells in the spell list. I don't need to prepare then in advance, I need just to want to use it. Or I can create a mind-like-related spell with power similar to a 3rd level spell or less.
No, I'll not use the excel sheet thing. I'll just maintain the rate when you learn a new warren, as described there, for the classes.
@Link, cool one.
I'll try give you guys with everything you need. There are tons of sites that have the book history, just as you to don't spoil it too much, since I'm planning to have you guys in the middle of some of the book events; :D
looks good. I think I have enough information to get started on building a base character. Likely won't be till early next week (have to go look at houses in a new city. New job starts on Oct. 6th. Aku consider this my warning about availability for the WotW game as well.)
Hey all, sorry, this past few days and the next few are crazy-busy at work ( boss went on vacation and didn't plan for his absence very well). Not ignoring, just barley keeping up with the thread atm.
Humans share common descent with the Imass, along with the Barghast, Moranth, and Trell. They are the "Traditional" response to the question "what happened to the living Imass who didn't arrive in time for the ritual?" - "They eventually evolved in to humans." Humans are divided along political and geographic lines, akin to the races of Earth.
Dal Honese
The Dal Honese live in southern Quon Tali, on the Dal Hon Plains.
Daru
The Daru occupy the city state of Darujhistan on the continent of Genabackis; the city was originally founded due to rumours of a treasure-filled barrow.
Gadrobi
The Gadrobi are an indigenous people in central Genabackis.
Genabarii
The Genabarii are a people in north-west Genabackis.
Meckros
The Meckros live in massive, floating cities that travel across the oceans and trade with people on land.
Napan
Napans are from the Napan Isles near Malaz Island, east of Quon Tali. The Napans allied with Kellanved to take control of Unta on the continent of Quon Tali, forming the Malazan Empire. Napans have a uniquely blue skin colour, and are notable for being massively muscled and unconcerned with aesthetics.
Rhivi
The Rhivi are a pastoral nomadic society in the central plains of Genabackis.
Seti
The Seti inhabit western Quon Tali, but have been so thoroughly integrated into the Quon culture they have effectively disappeared.
Seven Cities tribes
There are many native tribes living in Seven Cities, including the Arak (in the Pan'potsun Odhan), Bhilard (east of the Nenoth Odhan), Can'eld (northeast of Ubaryd), Debrahl (northerly regions), Dhis'bahl (in the Omari and Nahal Hills), Gral (from the Ehrlitan foothills down to the Pan'potsun Odhan), Kherahn Dhobri (in the Geleen Plain), Khundryl (west of the Nenoth Odhan), Pardu (north of the Geleen grasslands), Semk (in the Karas Hills and Steps), Tithan (south of Sialk) and the Tregyn (west of Sanimon).
Wickan
In northeastern Quon Tali lies the Wickan Plains where live the horse warriors, the Wickans. They are divided into clans, including Foolish Dog, Weasel and Crow.
Seguleh: The Seguleh were a warrior people inhabiting an island to the southwest of the continent of Genabackis. Trained in combat from their youths, the Seguleh gained a reputation as some of the finest swordsmen in the entire world of Wu. Although rarely sighted outside of their native island, Seguleh expeditions are known to have occurred on occasion.
Seguleh Society:
Seguleh society is a hierarchy exclusively based on the martial prowess of the individual. All Seguleh who successfully survive to adulthood don a mask with a number of markings signifying their position within the Seguleh hierarchy. The overall commander is the Seguleh First and he had no marks on his mask, the Seguleh Second is second-in-command with one mark on his mask, and so on. In order to advance within the society, a warrior of a lesser rank must defeat a Seguleh warrior of a higher rank, in single combat, thus acquiring that warrior's position within the society. The 1,000 highest ranked Seguleh are known as the Agatii.
The Seguleh rarely speak, communicating instead via body language. Seguleh of a lower rank are required to act humbly and to be servile towards members of higher rank, lest the former provoke a disciplinary attack by the latter. If a lower ranking warrior wished to challenge one of higher rank, he could do so by acting superior towards the one whom he wished to challenge.
Sustained eye contact was considered a challenge. The Seguleh are an intelligent society, despite the culture of pugilism as a form of advancement in 'political' rank.
Of Seven Cities tribes, this is what is worth mentioning:
Arak (in the Pan'potsun Odhan)
Bhilard (east of the Nenoth Odhan):
Can'eld (northeast of Ubaryd)
Debrahl (northerly regions)
Dhis'bahl (in the Omari and Nahal Hills)
Gilani (southern part of the continent): The Gilani were a Seven Cities tribe. Their royal family clan were the Futani. The last surviving member of that clan was Tribole Futan, more commonly known as Skulldeath. They were a people characterized by bodies virtually devoid of fat. Muscles like ropes, long, gracile and far stronger than they appeared.
Gral (from the Ehrlitan foothills down to the Pan'potsun Odhan): The Gral were a tribal people on the Seven Cities continent. They were known for not respecting the occupying Malazan forces and also for being uncompromising bargainers. They were also known for dealing rapidly and harshly with any perceived insult.
Kherahn Dhobri (in the Geleen Plain)
Khundryl (west of the Nenoth Odhan): The Khundryl were a tribe from Seven Cities considered to be the mightiest south of Vathar. The tribe was divided into clans, the most notable being the Burned Tears.
Pardu (north of the Geleen grasslands)
Semk (in the Karas Hills and Steppes)
Tanno (also spelled "Tano", near Ehrlitan): The Tanno, also spelled "Tano", were a Seven Cities tribe. Karakarang was their Holy City. Their holy men were known as Spiritwalkers and their magic was manifested in their songs of power.
Barghast
The Barghast were a non-human pastoral nomadic warrior society that were descended from Thelomen Toblakai and mortal Imass who were not in time for the Ritual of Tellann. They were found on several continents. Each hunter group was identified through their woad tattooing.
Barghast tribes
The Ilgres were a clan of Barghast that lived in the mountains to the south of Porule on the continent of Genabackis. They were among the strongest of the Barghast clans who had joined the Crimson Guard and ultimately Caladan Brood at Blackdog Forest.
The White Face were originally a group of twenty-seven clans of Barghast that lived in the mountains to the north of Capustan on the continent of Genabackis. Together, they numbered over one hundred thousand.
The remaining white faces included:
The Ahkrata Clan of the White Face Barghast numbered about one thousand. They distinguished themselves from other clans by their characteristic nose-plugs, lone braids and multi-toned armour fashioned from Moranth victims -including Green, Black, Red and even some Gold Clans. They were also avowed enemies of the Ilgres Clan. Their women wore broad hollow bone plugs in their nostrils which made them the most beautiful among all the White Face Barghast. Some of those women were known as Skincuts, or women slayers.
The Barahn Clan was the largest of the White Face Barghast at over ten thousand weapon-bearers. Their warchief was Maral Eb. They distinguished themselves from other clans by painting themselves in red ochre and wearing bronze brigandine armour, their hair spiked and bristling with porcupine quills.
Gadra
The Gilk were one of the clans within the White Face Barghast, led by warchief Spax. They wore their hair cut in stiff, narrow wedges and armour assembled from the plates of some kind of tortoise. They were considered to be distinctively short and stout for Barghast.
The Nith'rithal were one of the twenty-seven clans within the White Face Barghast. The blue streaks in their white face paint distinguished them from other clans. They numbered roughly twenty thousand.
The Senan they all wore armour made of overlapping coins: "the horde of ancient, unknown money that the Senan stumbled across some time in the past".
Moranth
Moranth were a non-human, highly regimented people who were centred in the Cloud Forest.
Moranth and Barghast were both descended from a sea-faring Imass culture that interbred with the Toblakai. It is possible that the Moranth may have interbred with the Tiste Edur, as they certainly co-existed alongside each other for a time.
The Moranth were at all times covered in chitinous armour, wearing helms with only small visor slots for sight. They spoke in a language of clicks and buzzes. The Moranth had also domesticated enormous flying insects known as quorl which they used as a means of transportation.
In 1156 BS, they allied themselves with the Malazan Empire. According to Moranth custom, a contract was valid for as long as one of the signatories was still alive.
Clans
The Moranth were broken down into a caste-based clan system with colours denoting different clans and possibly trades.
Green Moranth - Mainly a courier and transport clan
Black Moranth - Main Infantry
Gold Moranth - Elite Infantry
Blue Moranth - Sailors and Traders
Silver Moranth - Mages, thought to be the creators of Moranth munitions (Alchemists)
Red Moranth - Diplomats
Rivalry
Pale
The Moranth rivaled the Free City of Pale as a mercantile power, and more often than not the city of Pale would win out in these economic skirmishes. These skirmishes were far from purely diplomatic or economic, they resulted in actual deaths.
A group of Black Moranth were allowed by Laseen to enter the city of Pale for one hour after the Siege and exact revenge. During that time, they killed 18,739 people, one for every Moranth confirmed as a victim of the trade war they had fought with the Free City
Barghast
The Moranth and the Barghast found themselves on opposite ends of a spectrum, both descending from their common ancestor, the Imass.
Seguleh
The Seguleh were ancient enemies of the Moranth going back to when both resided in Darujhistan.
Trell
The Trell were a non-human pastoral nomadic warrior society in transition to a sedentary way of life. They were descendants of the Thelomen Toblakai. They inhabited an area in the northwestern part of Seven Cities. They buried their dead in chambers beneath heaped mounds of stone and earth.
Short and wide as a siege engine, skin a deep, warm brown, black hair braided and studded with fetishes, big canines. That's a basic description of a trell.
The T-shaped quay was now a maelstrom of belligerent Wickans, frightened dock porters and short-tempered warhorses. A cordon of Hissar Guard provided the stopper to the bottleneck at the dock's end where it opened out onto the cobbled half-round. Of Seven Cities blood, the Guards had hitched their round shields and unsheathed their tulwars, waving the broad, curving blades threateningly at the Wickans, who answered with barking challenges.
Two men arrived on the parapet. Duiker nodded greetings. Mallick Rel did not deign to acknowledge either of them—a rough captain and the 7th's lone surviving cadre mage, both men clearly ranked too low for any worthwhile cultivation by the priest.
'Well, Kulp,' Duiker said to the squat, white-haired wizard,
'your arrival may prove timely.'
Kulp's narrow, sunburned face twisted into a sour scowl. 'Came up here to keep my bones and flesh intact, Duiker. I'm not interested in becoming Coltaine's lumpy carpet in his step up to the post. They're his people, after all. That he hasn't done a damned thing to quell this brewing riot doesn't bode well, I'd say.'
The captain at his side grunted agreement. 'Sticks in the throat,' he growled. 'Half the officers here saw their first blood facing that bastard Coltaine, and now here he is, about to take command. Hood's knuckles,' he spat, 'won't be any tears spilled if the Hissar Guard cuts down Coltaine and every one of his Wickan savages right here at the Quay. The Seventh don't need them.'
'Truth,' Mallick Rel said to Duiker with veiled eyes, 'behind the threat of uprisings. Continent here a viper nest. Coltaine an odd choice—'
'Not so odd,' Duiker said, shrugging. He returned his attention to the scene below. The Wickans closest to the Hissar Guard had begun strutting back and forth in front of the armoured line. The situation was but moments away from a full-scale battle—the bottleneck was about to become a killing ground. The historian felt something cold clutch his stomach at seeing horn bows now strung among the Wickan soldiers. Another company of guards appeared from the avenue to the right of the main colonnade, bristling with pikes.
'Can you explain that?' Kulp asked.
Duiker turned and was surprised to see all three men staring at him. He thought back to his last comment, then shrugged again. 'Coltaine united the Wickan clans in an uprising against the Empire. The Emperor had a hard time bringing him to heel—as some of you know first-hand. True to the Emperor's style, he acquired Coltaine's loyalty—'
'How?' Kulp barked.
'No one knows.' Duiker smiled. 'The Emperor rarely explained his successes. In any case, since Empress Laseen held no affection for her predecessor's chosen commanders, Coltaine was left to rot in some backwater on Quon Tali. Then the situation changed. Laseen needs able commanders. So...'
'Coltaine,' the captain nodded, his scowl deepening. 'Sent here to take command of the Seventh and put down the rebellion—'
'After all,' Duiker said dryly, 'who better to deal with insurrection than a warrior who led one himself?'
'If mutiny occurs, scant his chances,' Mallick Rel said, his eyes on the scene below.
Duiker saw half a dozen tulwars flash, watched the Wickans recoil and then unsheathe their own long-knives. They seemed to have found a leader, a tall, fierce-looking warrior with fetishes in his long braids, who now bellowed encouragement, waving his own weapon over his head. 'Hood!' the historian swore. 'Where on earth is Coltaine?'
The captain laughed. 'The tall one with the lone long-knife.'
Duiker's eyes widened. That madman is Coltaine? The Seventh's new Fist?
'Ain't changed at all, I see,' the captain continued. 'If you're going to keep your head as leader of all the clans, you'd better be nastier than all the rest put together. Why'd you think the old Emperor liked him so much?'
'Beru fend,' Duiker whispered, appalled.
In the next breath an ululating scream from Coltaine brought sudden silence from the Wickan company. Weapons slid back into their sheaths, bows were lowered, arrows returned to their quivers. Even the bucking, snapping horses fell still, heads raised and ears pricked. A space cleared around Coltaine, who had turned his back onthe guards. The tall warrior gestured and the four men on the parapet watched in silence as with absolute precision every horse was saddled. Less than a minute later the horsesoldiers were mounted, guiding their horses into a close parade formation that would rival the Imperial elites.
I put it together from scratch using a variety of class features and feats. It started out as a fighter, I threw in some fighter archetype stuff, and then pulled down the combat stats a bit to add some magic and skills.
I did some quick and dirty test builds comparing it to an Inquisitor and a combat Bard at levels 5, 10, and 15. The Inquisitor was better in pretty much every way but maneuverability (and a couple of points of AC in later levels), but it did better than the bard, though I didn't take into account criticals, where the bard might have caught up some.
I probably need to do an in depth build of it at something like level 12 against some of the prebuilt Inquisitors from the DPR olympics boards to see how it balances out. As it stands in my test builds, the Inquisitor is hands down better in every way, with almost double the DPR (plus lots of other neat toys), even though they are supposed to fill a similar role.
Tend to agree. Though the holy lancer seems very maneuverable, it doesn't seem really competitive with a lot of the martial classes.
I would vote to maybe add something like spellstrike to the class (say 3+wisdom bonus/day) with the conditional of only with a spear. Would fit your original concept extremely well, as well as should help boost the DPR a bit.
My only issue with that is that the Inquisitor spell list doesn't have a lot of touch spells on it, so it wouldn't really be that useful. Also, as far as I can tell, that ability of most often used to just let the Magus dual wield without needing the feats, more than anything.
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The biggest issue with Inquisitors is that Bane and Greater Bane special ability. Adding 14 damage on average on every attack adds quite a lot to their DPR. Spear Training pretty much keeps up with their judgements for adding to attack and damage.
What we need is either extra consistency of damage, or some kind of burst damage.
One thing that might help is to also throw polearms into the mix. That will give some better weapon options, and it isn't without precedent, since the Polearm Master archetype does everything with both spears and polearms.
Keeping with the magic idea, what about adding in something like the Magus Arcane Pool, but make it divine and wisdom or charisma based? Drop Dancing from the list of weapon enhancements and add Holy/Unholy instead?
Very rough math indicates that adding the spellpool alone will bring the it much closer to the Inquisitor, close enough that I feel confident in the DPR, though I might think about tweaking some non-combat stuff a little. Maybe go with the Inquisitor and bump it up to 6+int skills and add a class skill or two. Maybe add some lay on hands and mercy / cruelties in there or something like that.
Thoughts?
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On a side note, what do you think about swapping Weapon Mastery for:
Whirlwind Blitz (Ex): At 20th level, a Holy Lancer can make a full-attack action as a standard action. He may also use the Whirlwind Attack feat as a standard action.
