I am struggling to pick between a Spirit Reaper necromancer or an animist that focuses on melee with Witness to Ancient Battles.
Both readily fit the concept that I'm going for, but I haven't played a necromancer at all and the animist character I played was very spellcasting focused.
The three criteria I'm looking for are how effective it is in melee, how quickly the build comes online, and how easy it is to play in that order.
One thing to note is that this will be free archetype, and I've gotten permission for exemplar dedication, which I suspect I will take.
I appreciate any thoughts or advice you might give.
IMO, a reaper necromancer probably will feel more "fighty" and an animist, as you mentioned, is more "casty." The necromancer is also likely to have better action-economy options.
With free archetype, you may want to consider the MC magus archetype to pick up Spellstriker. As necromancer is an Int-based caster, it will be easier to take the MC magus archetype. You can take the MC exemplar archetype at 8th level, instead of 2nd. Also, getting Arcana to Legendary proficiency for Master Magus Spellcasting will open up the Unified Theory skill feat as well.
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I am struggling to pick between a Spirit Reaper necromancer or an animist that focuses on melee with Witness to Ancient Battles.
Witness to Ancient Battles is a trap for gish Animists. I very much recommend watching this video from ThrabenU about a great Animist gish build. (You can skip the first 2 chapters, if you really want to.)
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At low to mid ish (12 or so) the animist can make a very good Gish.
One really good build that comes online at L6 is a centaur guardian with punishing shove and roaring heart. Grudge strike also quite good if you just want to hit with a weapon
In the appropriate circumstances stalker also very good ( earth elemental rocks). Much better than Witness to ancient battles
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So, it really depends on how you define a "gish."
The "true" gishes in PF2e are the Magus and the Summoner; these classes genuinely combine martial and spellcasting capabilities, with one aspect enhancing or complementing the other.
However, if your definition of a gish is simply a martial character with a few spells to solve problems or self-buff, then basically any spellcasting archetype, the scroll trickster, or the thaumaturge class fits the bill nicely.
But if you define a gish as someone who uses martial abilities as a backup for their spells, I’m afraid PF2e doesn't handle that very well. Weapons might complement your spells via the third action, but even that easily becomes secondary; many classes gain access to 1-action or sustained spells that are likely far more effective mechanically.
Personally, I don't consider the necromancer a good gish. Its key attribute doesn't help the role; its focus spells require a thrall—often consuming all your actions—and the thrall shares your Multiple Attack Penalty (MAP).
The animist has the interesting option of using Embodiment of Battle. However, there's a catch: it behaves much like the old battle oracle, sacrificing your spell DC for a bonus that, in practice, barely compensates for the fact that your primary attribute isn't used for attacks.
Both classes also suffer from very limited weapon proficiency progression.
Ultimately, with either class, you end up as a weak combatant who—to make matters worse—hinders their own spellcasting. You also have to contend with the fact that a fighter with a spellcasting archetype can cast bless or heroism on themselves and use magic to strike far more efficiently than you can. Ultimately, if you want to build a mechanically efficient gish, look into the magus, summoner, shaumaturge, or a martial class (other than the Barbarian) with a spellcasting archetype, maybe even a runesmith, rather than trying to force a full spellcaster to act like a martial character. However, if you don't care as much about mechanical efficiency and want to prioritize theme, just go with whatever you find most interesting—Pathfinder won't severely punish you for it (PF2e really only punishes poor attribute choices).
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But if you define a gish as someone who uses martial abilities as a backup for their spells, I’m afraid PF2e doesn't handle that very well. Weapons might complement your spells via the third action, but even that easily becomes secondary; many classes gain access to 1-action or sustained spells that are likely far more effective mechanically.
I think this very much depends on what level range you're talking.
From levels 1 to maybe 10 or 12ish it is very possible (with classes like the druid or animist it is almost trivial) to build a character who is a gish by that definition. It gets harder and harder as one goes up in levels until by the highest level it is pretty much not possible to do so in a way that is close to as efficient as the pure spell caster.
I agree that it gets worse with progression. But even at level 1, you start at a disadvantage regarding your key attribute.
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I agree that it gets worse with progression. But even at level 1, you start at a disadvantage regarding your key attribute.
Using YOUR definition of a Gish as "someone who uses martial abilities as a backup for their spells" then being an ENTIRE -1/2 to their strength (-1 half the time, tied the other 1/2 of the time) is a pretty insignificant disadvantage. Oh, I guess they fall further behind at L17 when martials get their Apex items :-).
OBVIOUSLY a full spell caster WILL (and SHOULD) be at a disadvantage compared to a martial when being martial like. That is why the martial abilities are a backup and NOT their main thing.
If you're expecting the druid to be as good as a martial and also for those martial abilities to just be a backup then I think that you're saying that you want the druid to be the overpowered monstrosity it was in PF1. Better than most martials while still being a full spell caster.
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If you're comfortable with being squishy, the Reaper Necromancer works well in melee at earlier levels, doesn't need any particular feats to come online immediately, and is easier to play than an Animist. You noted that the Animist is very spellcasting-oriented, which is true, and it's important to note that the Necromancer is also a spellcaster first and a melee combatant second.
If you're looking for a gish that's more of a true hybrid between caster and martial, then the only options the game offers in that respect are the Battle Harbinger (which I really don't recommend), the Magus, and the Summoner: depending on what you're going for, a Summoner with an Anger/Devotion Phantom or Undead eidolon could potentially fit the theme while giving you good martial and caster capabilities, though the class is a bit tricky to get to grips with at the start.
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The three criteria I'm looking for are how effective it is in melee, how quickly the build comes online, and how easy it is to play in that order.One thing to note is that this will be free archetype, and I've gotten permission for exemplar dedication, which I suspect I will take.
I appreciate any thoughts or advice you might give.
Because the first of your criteria is melee combat efficacy, and none of your criteria centers around offensive casting potential, I wonder if a champion or a monk might not be the more satisfactory base class, with something like a cleric MC for the monk or an oracle/sorcerer MC for the champion. Your casting proficiencies end up the same as a summoner/magus, your melee proficiencies end up being as good as any non-fighter martial, your defensive proficiencies will be some of the best in the game and with scroll use and potentially multiple casting MC archetypes you can really cast a lot of spell from spell slots from levels 8+ and your focus spell casting is great.
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So due to a comical series of miscommunications and typos, what I originally thought was a 1-7 game is in fact a 10-17 game, which changes my decision making process significantly.
As many of you have pointed out, trying to make a full caster into a gish is really only viable at lower levels, and as such I've decided to go monk/animist (less optimal than Unicore's suggestion of monk/cleric, but I like the flavor of animist and want a familiar).
I appreciate everyone's guidance.
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Just a data point for those who are interested.
My Animist gish build just hit L11 in Kingmaker.
He is still doing quite well as a gish but his relatively crappy saving throws are starting to become an issue.
But I love Elemental Form (from Darkened Forest).
Round 1 - threw a spell and turned into an Air elemental
Round 2 - flew across the entire map while sustaining and turning into a Wood Elemental. Hit fairly hard as a wood elemental using grudge strike.
In a different battle against a grappling monster Water Elemental totally rocked. Sustained, hit, spent an action to automatically shove the bad guy back 5 feet and therefore break the grapple.
All while still being a full caster if that is more useful.
At least outdoors I expect Elemental Form to still be useful for at least a couple more levels.