Something strange on the Absalom Station map from the recent Absalom book

[Driftbourne]

I saw our GM's PDF map of the Absalom Station from the Recent book. He pointed out something that I wasn't expecting: the arms of the station being labeled after the Seven Virtues of rule. So is Absalom Station designed after the Sihedron Rune? Some of the arms of Absalom Station are related to actual districts in Absalom City, but Absalom City has no connection to the Seven Virtues of rule that I know of, but I'm not well versed in Pathfinder lore.

This seems like a huge clue to the Station's origins, but what could it mean? If the current year in PF2e is 4726 AR, and the origin of the Sihedron Rune is 10,000 years old in PF2e.

At minimum, this is some great fuel for in-character conspiracy theories. Out of character, I'm still lost, but I think it leads to something really big... Is it linked to the cover image of the SF2e GM Core?

[NoxiousMiasma]

Cool theory, but the Arms aren't the part that are named for virtues. Absalom Station has seven substations that regulate, distribute, and also are designed to act as emergency backup for the power of the Starstone. They're each named after virtues, and all (except for Temperance) are protected by Starstone Guardians referred to as prime virtues. (Temperance Substation is under the Cosmonastery of the Empty Orbit, and is instead protected by a cybernetic dryad linked to the ancient, slightly-divine fig tree that is the foundation of the monastery).

The fact that the Azlanti Star Empire also are, very much not in charge of Absalom Station or appear to have ever been responsible for it's maintenance or construction suggests against it being linked to Sihedron, but on the other hand, seven is generally a significant number and also it could well be that someone used preserved Azlanti research (maybe from New Thassilon?) as the basis for the power channeling of the station.

[Driftbourne]

So if Absalom Station's seven substations are named after the 7 virtues, if I'm correct, that's new in SF2e? And more of a connection to Pathfinder lore than we knew before, which was mostly limited to the Starstone itself.

Whatever the correct answer is, it's most likely a clue we haven't had before about who built Absalom's Station, or where it disappeared to.

[Tim Emrick]

The use of the seven virtues could be a remnant of the Starstone's connection to the Last Azlanti, the dead god Aroden.

Which sparks an interesting thought: Absalom Station's layout bears a passing resemblance to the Eye of Aroden (an eye surrounded by spread wings). Well, if you squint, and have a conspiracy theorist bent of mind...

[moosher12]

It could also refer to a link to sin magic via the Thassilonians. IIRC, the seven virtues, (which were corrupted to the 7 sins), were a Thassilonian innovation when they broke off from the Azlanti, and were core elements of rune magic before sin was discovered to be an easier side of the virtues to fall into due to their temptation. It could be that some of the major engineers behind the Starstone were runelords. Not necessarily the OG Thassilonian runelords, but runelords as in practitioners of rune magic that got to learn from the Thassilonians that arrived in Lost Omens modern day Varisia. Frankly feels plausible after the Runelord of Lust, Sorshen, decided to work with her new contemporaries and spread the knowledge of the 7 schools of rune magic, rather than enslave them. And Rune magic's status of being the Assembly equivalent of magical coding might make sense for justifying some of Absalom Station's weirder and stronger enchantments.

[Driftbourne]

I'm learning Pathfinder lore as this goes on, so, like Aroden, is the immortal Azlanti human who raised the Starstone from the bottom of the Inner. I wonder if there are any clues in Dead God's Hand? Or maybe sets up some early history as a setup?

[Driftbourne]

So seems like links to Aroden connections, Eye of Aroden, Thassilonian runelords, all seem plausible and well connected to Pathfinder lore. What's interesting about Starfinder lore is that the Azlanti Star Empire is very much a current thing, whereas in Pathfinder the Azlanti seem to be part of ancient history. I feel like somehow that's going to merge or cross paths in SF2e.

[moosher12]

One thing I was surprised to learn about the Azlanti Star Empire, is they didn't even know about Earthfall, nor was their movement in any way caused by Earthfall.

They were just an experimental expedition that left to try inhabiting another planet, and then when Earthfall happened, they got locked off. According to Against the Aeon Throne, I'm not sure if they were even aware of Earthfall until they got reintroduced into Galactic society after the Gap. Which is 10,000 plus untold additional millennia ago.

But in Pathfinder, the Azlanti are very much an ancient and seemingly extinct people. The most direct living Legacy would be their thassilonian offshoots that got brought forward through time to create New Thassilon. But aside from Thassilonians, which are technically of the Azlanti race, the last pure blooded Azlanti before the arrival of Thassilonians was Aroden. Their legacy does otherwise live on in notes of their iconic purple eye color appearing among some Varisians.

[Driftbourne]

So I took a look to see how old in Pathfinder 1e the roots of Starfinder went. I was familiar with Pathfinder Distance Worlds, but it turns out the planets that are now the Pact Worlds are older than the official release of the PF1e Core Rulebook by 10 months. So look like, besides the Pact World planets, even some other star systems from PF1e have made it into Starfinder. When Starfinder even became an idea, I don't know.

1: Children of the Void: introduced the 11 planets of Golarion's solar system; published in 2008, written and balanced for D&D 3.5 rules.

2: Pathfinder First Edition: August 2009 (following a beta in August 2008).

3: The Pathfinder sourcebook Distant Worlds was released in February 2012. Deeper dive into the planets that would, in SF1e become the Pact Worlds

4: Pathfinder Player Companion People of the Stars was released on August 14, 2014. More on the 11 planets of Golarion's solar system.
Other stars:
Cynosure: Aligned perfectly with the axis of Golarion’s rotation, Cynosure is the planet’s pole star. Cynosure star has been featured in Starfinder, serving as the home realm of the goddess Desna in Nightmare Scenario, the second part of the Drift Crashers. Also in SF1e Core Rule Book.
Taru Seco: is the second-brightest star in Golarion’s sky—or rather, the second and third, for Taru Seco is a binary system.
Mentions: Black Holes, Other galaxys, and Wormholes. SF1e Core Rule Book.

5: Paizo employee first uttered the word "Starfinder," the core concept for the game was built incrementally across several years before its May 2016 announcement

6: Starfinder First Edition was officially released at Gen Con on August 17, 2017

[Madhippy3]

moosher12 wrote:

One thing I was surprised to learn about the Azlanti Star Empire, is they didn't even know about Earthfall, nor was their movement in any way caused by Earthfall.

They were just an experimental expedition that left to try inhabiting another planet, and then when Earthfall happened, they got locked off. According to Against the Aeon Throne, I'm not sure if they were even aware of Earthfall until they got reintroduced into Galactic society after the Gap. Which is 10,000 plus untold additional millennia ago.

But in Pathfinder, the Azlanti are very much an ancient and seemingly extinct people. The most direct living Legacy would be their thassilonian offshoots that got brought forward through time to create New Thassilon. But aside from Thassilonians, which are technically of the Azlanti race, the last pure blooded Azlanti before the arrival of Thassilonians was Aroden. Their legacy does otherwise live on in notes of their iconic purple eye color appearing among some Varisians.

I am not even sure most modern ancestries with ties to Golarion (humans, dwarves, etc) would know about Earthfall. Its pregap, and records of pregap are not unknown but thats ancient history to a lot of people and how common of knowledge is earthfall really? It is ancient history even in PF2e. 47 centuries old. Thats a long time!

[moosher12]

I'd imagine it's seen as useless information to most. I feel that if the Golarion World amusement park has as much knowledge as it does, there is a handfull of archaeologists who are aware, and it might even be taught in some ancient history classes, but the sentiment among Starfinder is that the majority of folks would not even care.

It's like us trying to dwell on 5 millennia old events in human history.

Either way, I have yet to find specific references to Earthfall. Even among the fact they at least seem to know roughly about Lost Omens Era Golarion (4600s+). But like, even that's so distorted that it's heavily flanderized, and it's about as representative as a Disney Park would be of a historical setting it references. If recently recorded history is as warped as it is, imagine history that was considered niche and obscure even by the Lost Omens era. Because the average person will probably know about as much as Lost Omens Era Golarion as a Lost Omens Era individual knows about Ages of Legends and Darkness, which is, not a lot for either.

What we do know is they are aware of Tar Baphon and House Thrune,

[HolyFlamingo!]

I imagine Pacters look back on Earthfall the way we look back on mass extinctions: fun to casually study and wonder what life would be like if they never happened, but few people appreciate just how big they were and how deeply they changed the course of history.

[Driftbourne]

That's a good analogy. Another way to look at it from the Stafinder point of view would be like if the Gap happened during the 1800s, 1700s, and 1600s. We would still know some things about the pyramids, but the Rosetta Stone would have been lost to the Gap, so the Ancient Aliens show would sound slightly less crazy.

[Driftbourne]

Clues from other sources (Era of the Eclips and 1-6 Magic in the Mist) hint at what happened to Galorian and seem to point to Castrovel. Is there any connection to Castrovel and the Azlanti, Thassilon, or Aroden?

The elves were heavily affected by the Gap, are also native to Castrovel, and were around for Earthfall. If not involved, at least witnessed much of Pathfinder/Starfinder history. I'm thinking the answers might be on Castrovel even if not part of the cause of Golarian disappearing.

I also wonder: even if the Azlanti Star Empire had nothing to do with the construction and maintenance of Absalom Station, that doesn't necessarily rule out that they were involved in its disappearance.

[moosher12]

Elves were present on Golarion during the Era of Legends, via the aiudara, which linked them to Castrovel. But that's about all I know on it in the meantime.

Though they actually missed a lot of Pathfinder history. Aside from the Ayindillar, the Jinin, and I think one other type whom I forgot, the majority of elves, especially classical elves, left just prior to Earthfall, and did not return until 2632 AR (a little over 2000 years ago). Which is to say, they missed about 8 millennia of Golarion's history. They were largely absent from the ages of Darkness, Anguish, Destiny, and the first half of the Age of Enthronement.

[Dargoth876]

For Conspiracy theories, even the death of Aroden is not known, he was simply gone one day along with the power of Prophecy. No one knows how he died.

Taking away the knowledge from the future in Pathfinder is kind of symmetrical to taking away the knowledge of the past with the Gap in Starfinder.

Since he was linked with the Starstone, he could very well be on Absalom Station now as the creator of the station. Maybe it is its avatar.

Also, many of the original Kayals were Azlanti that escaped Eartfall by going to the Netherworld plane. They had an Absalom city and now have an Absalom Station, so the inspiration could come from there.

[Tim Emrick]

Given the high level of magic mastered by the ancient Azlanti, I'd consider it fully plausible that some of their scientist-mages discovered methods of traveling to other planets before Earthfall. That may have been through gates (similar to the elves' aiudara), or spacefaring vessels (perhaps like those in the King Xeros scenarios for PFS1 and SFS1), or some other method, but the details have been lost to history. That discovery may have even influenced the timing of the algollthus setting Earthfall in motion. ("Let's smash this upstart species before any more of them get off-planet!")

[moosher12]

At least going by 2E rules, any 19th level arcane, divine, or occult spellcaster can travel anywhere in the galaxy. But because it requires 19th level, this is exceedingly rare.

Going by SF1E rules, any 6th level caster can travel to other planets using Interplanetary Teleport (it's even strong enough to leave the galaxy in this version), but it requires visiting the planet first, which means that something else has to take you to the planet, the spell cannot transport you there from just stargazing.

Either way, 2E rules are the more forgiving, as they do allow you to research a locale.

The Azlanti Star Empire did have a modicum of success, but it did not extend to the grand society. During the gap, they did experiment with various FTL mechanisms. And one, the Rune Drive, did sort of succeed, but it had an error that made it crash into a planet, triggering the plot of Against the Aeon Throne. Regardless, whether or not they discovered other methods, they never developed method at large enough scale to extend their influence beyond a very small settlement that is obscure and lost by now.

Though speaking of gates, it does look like a gate system was used to transport from Golarion to New Thespera. The codex mentions that portals were used to handle logistics between Golarion and New Thespera, and it was assumed to get a steady supply from Golarion. But a few months after settling, the portals stopped, and no one knew whether it was a magical mishap or a form of sabotage.

Though it does mention that the Azlanti, at the same time as they colonized New Thespera, did attempt other planets. But that most of these attempts ended in some form of disaster. It sounds like if any of these were a secret success, it'd still be an independent evolution, which could result in native Azlanti of a different temperament due to a branch in social evolution. Either way, as far as I know, no such colonies have popped up yet, but it's not impossible for one of those failed attempts to have simply been another cut off group of colonists that managed to survive this long.

Another factor if we want native Azlanti is, perhaps some Azlanti came forward among the Thassilonians. The Thassilonians were contemporary with the Azlanti, so perhaps a small diaspora of more traditional Azlanti would be around Pathfinder post return of the Runelords.

[Driftbourne]

I just found a Reddit thread from 9 years ago trying to figure out the Gap and what happened to Galorion.

Golarion and the Gap: What's Your Headcanon?.

Here's a theory that caught my eye:
"Perhaps the Gap is caused by the Akashic Record having been damaged?"

This is interesting because the Gap didn't happen everywhere at the exact same time, which could be explained by the Akashic Record being damaged at different times.

[The Raven Black]

moosher12 wrote:

It could also refer to a link to sin magic via the Thassilonians. IIRC, the seven virtues, (which were corrupted to the 7 sins), were a Thassilonian innovation when they broke off from the Azlanti, and were core elements of rune magic before sin was discovered to be an easier side of the virtues to fall into due to their temptation. It could be that some of the major engineers behind the Starstone were runelords. Not necessarily the OG Thassilonian runelords, but runelords as in practitioners of rune magic that got to learn from the Thassilonians that arrived in Lost Omens modern day Varisia. Frankly feels plausible after the Runelord of Lust, Sorshen, decided to work with her new contemporaries and spread the knowledge of the 7 schools of rune magic, rather than enslave them. And Rune magic's status of being the Assembly equivalent of magical coding might make sense for justifying some of Absalom Station's weirder and stronger enchantments.

The seven virtues of rule were a basis of the Azlanti culture.

Xin's innovation was using those, mixed with non-Azlanti concepts, to design the 7 schools of magic. Which were deemed heretical by Azlant.