Hello,
I'll soon start Seasons of Ghost with a few friends. We're playing with free archetypes, and group will be pretty tanky with a champion, a cleric and a rogue. We're lacking in spellcasting, and I've decided to give the reaper a try.
I'm already playing a puppeteer on another AP and having a blast, but on paper the reaper looks weaker, his need to stride along with his weakness to AOO getting in the way of a smooth rotation, for a pretty small damage bonus when all goes according to plan.
I know my best bet would be undead master or beastmaster for a mount, but I'm a bit bored of companions and wanted to change this time. Any advice, both on building it and playing it ?
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Start with making striding less of an issue I guess.
Don't suppose there's anything stopping you from doing the same thing melee magi do where you dump int and do the usual champion archetype line for plate armor, the reaction and a focus point or nimble reprisal?
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Marshal. Inspiring Stance saves you from having to take Bind Heroic Spirit and Reactive Strike means you don't need Bone Burst to have an offensive reaction.
If you go with the Blood Fascination, adding Runesmith to hand out Esvadir to your allies helps you keep up Sanguine Mastery.
I have recently added a few example builds to my Necromancer guide, in case you haven't seen that. There's two reapers. One is ... experimental (i.e. NOT optimized) but I feel like the other one (The Blood Elf) should be quite solid at its job. Might at least give you some ideas.
Those are great suggestions - I didn't think about mutagens, but they'd be pretty useful, especially since I like alchemist archetype on my INT characters. And of course I've read your guide Blave (I agree with just about everything), and the infamous blelf ^^
But I'm more worried about what a reaver can do that a puppeteer can't. What would be his contribution to the group ?
I guess what I mean is, apart from the (admittedly incredible) flavor, why choose reaver over puppeteer ?
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NOT the Blelf! :)
Quite frankly, the Reaper's only real upside is his damage. If he has a big weapon and keeps it upgraded to his level (including energy damage runes), his free Strike with Create Thrall will deal significantly more damage than what the free thrall Strike of the Puppeteer can contribute. That's also why I suggested to seriously consider a d12 weapon. It's worse in many ways, but it enhances the only real way to make the Reaper stand out. That being said, even with only a d10 weapon, the damage is quite substantially higher. It falls off dramatically at level 19 when the legendary caster proficiency gives the thralls a big boost (though their average damage is still lower than the weapon Strike) and you basically need some +2 or higher status bonus to keep attacking worthwhile. That's where Final Union comes in handy.
Now, does this extra damage balance out the Puppeteer's action advantage from not needing to move around as much? I don't think so. In fact, I'm almost 100% positive that in most situations, the Puppeteer is outright better than the Reaper. That's why I gave it a higher rating in my guide. But the difference is far from being so overwhelming that a Reaper can't work.
One other advantage that the Reaper has is that his Strikes are a decent fallback option, even without any magic. Maybe you're surrounded by 3 enemies with Reactive Strikes and even casting create thrall would potentially end you. In such a situation, the Reaper can just swing his weapon while the Puppeteer is likely Stepping three times, unless he got Ghostly Stride or something similar. Or maybe you're just out of Focus points and don't want to waste any more resources on the current encounter.
I think some players would also look at the Reaper and be more willing to stand near the front with one, because it "looks" more sturdy. But that's a fallacy, of course. Unless the Reaper picks up Heavy Armor, he's in no way more durable than a Puppeteer (at least not before Final Union).
I did some math and if you like to do something "different" (though certainly not optimized), a Dogslicer is a surprisingly good weapon for a Reaper. Forget about finesse, though. You need the extra damage from strength. If you add that to a Backstabber, agile d6 Dogslicer and get Sneak Attacker from the rogue archetype, using Create Thrall to make a thrall Strike AND a weapon Strike is actually pretty solid. Still less damage than a d12 weapon, but surprisingly close to a d10. And it's not like you're lacking in flanking opportunities. The free hand could be used for a Staff or something.
Oh dear, look at me. Casting Wall of Text again. Sorry. :D
Bottom line: If you want an optimized Necromancer, play a Puppeteer. But there's still ways to play an optimized Reaper and I don't think they are so far off that you should be discouraged by the gap.
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Way I see it, the Reaper is most akin to a Monk with Monastic Weaponry.
Except that you can use all these big weapons that do not work with Flurry of Blows.
And you can wear armor. In fact, you need Heavy Armor with Bulwark so that you can safely dump DEX to focus on STR and INT.
And you're a full caster too, though an Occult one. Maybe grabbing an Arcane or Primal caster archetype here will help.
Boost your speed though because you don't get the free status bonus the Monk gets.
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Getting Veil Dancer dedication for Gossamer Blade might be good too, since you will so often get opponents off-guard thanks to your flanking Thralls.
If you do this, you might want an Agile weapon to get a higher success rate on your Strike.
As mentioned in Blave's guide, a Dogslicer is pretty good there (and gives you a free hand). An Explosive Dogslicer will be even better if you can get Goblin Weapon Familiarity.
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Hello,
I'll soon start Seasons of Ghost with a few friends. We're playing with free archetypes, and group will be pretty tanky with a champion, a cleric and a rogue. We're lacking in spellcasting, and I've decided to give the reaper a try.
I'm already playing a puppeteer on another AP and having a blast, but on paper the reaper looks weaker, his need to stride along with his weakness to AOO getting in the way of a smooth rotation, for a pretty small damage bonus when all goes according to plan.
I know my best bet would be undead master or beastmaster for a mount, but I'm a bit bored of companions and wanted to change this time. Any advice, both on building it and playing it ?
Reapers get martial weapon access so step one is find a good reach weapon. They have a lot of tools that make good use of extended reach and being able to be close enough to chop something without pulling a reactive strike is pretty key.
Ok, so let's try this, putting all those advices together.
It'll be an blelf changeling, for the fast movement, free darkvision, mistchild and flavor. We don't allow ancient elf on FA games, but that's just us. Our champion also plans to take the marshall dedication.
STR 3 DEX 1 CON 1 INT 4 WIS 0 CHA 0
1 - Nimble elf (I want to be fast and alleviate the soon-to come heavy armor)
2 - Muscle barrier (should be obvious)
FA2 - Alchemist dedication (4 versatile per day for all purpose)
3 - Heavy armor proficiency (to patch up reflex save and, well, not get hit. Still 30 feet movement).
4 - Bony Barrage (Create 2 thralls + hit + friendly fire Bony Barrage is an awesome way to buff AC while dealing damage).
FA 4 - Advanced alchemy (4 consumables per day, more utility until we get collar of shifting spider)
5 - Mistchild (nice with mistform elixir if I can prebuff). With the collar, I can now enter 4 fights a day with Titan's Brew, helping my accuracy and my reach, though I lose AC.
6 - Bone burst (I like it better than reactive strike, it has limits but allows for strategic positioning and catch-22 thingies)
FA 6 - Basic concoction - Improvise admixture (for more versatile vials)
7 - Fleet (more move is good)
8 - Infused Void (need those focus points badly, plus free damage) or Bloody Tendrils (for a good 1-action grave spell).
FA 8 - Advanced concoction - Efficient alchemy (Now I have 10 true vials per day, soon to be 11).
9 - Elf Step (good positioning)
10 - Skeletal extension (I kind of like it. If you have a thrall at the beginning of your turn, it's a free 10-feet reach bonus) or the feat I didn't get at level 8.
As for FA 10, I'm wondering if I should go witch to get some divine spells and the ceremonial knife).
There is no Blelf! :D
Looks good. I don't think I'd be comfortable with the -2 AC and -3 Reflex penalty, personally, but it is a way of getting some extra reach and attack bonus. A rather risky way, but still a way.
Not sure Infuse Void (without the D at the end, btw. That's a typo on AoN.) works well with a Reaper's action economy. If I was trying to squeeze a Spellshape into a Reaper, it would be Vampiric Spell instead.
Level 10 FA witch is good, I'd probably go with Arcane or Primal, though. Ceremonial Knife is great, but more attractive for characters with a free hand. You could also go Runesmith to spread the love bleed if you plan to pick up Sanguine Mastery at 12.
This group is a bit conservative and the DM sees Runesmith archetype, like exemplar archetype, as kind of overpowered (as in: a permanent effective bonus that's easy to pilfer). I know there have been threads about it, I'm not here to start another one or tell you whether I think it's fair or not. Pont is, he's the DM, he calls the shots ^^
I'm a bit on the fence with the -2 AC and -3 reflex. On the one hand, being in plate and having muscle barrier + some low regen from thralls, I'm hoping I can survive that. On the other hand, if I get swarmed, I'm toast. A more conservative way would be to get the double fury cocktail - no reach, but less penalty and a physical resistance to boot.
I agree about infuse void, but those focus points are what makes the class so great, and 3 feels a bit restrictive for harder fights. If no enemy is in reach, infuse void + focus spell is a nice way to use a turn. But yeah, vampiric spell is great as well. If it avoids a casting of muscle barrier, then it's a net positive. I'm not sure the temp HP are worth it, though. Assuming someone fails their save (but no critfail), a necrotic bomb at level 7 will deal 4d12 damage, average 26, so you gain 13 temp HP.
I'm also wondering about my spell list (funny it comes as an afterthought for the necro ^^), since I've never done an occult melee.
Obviously I'm still a full caster so I'll keep the staples (slow, synesthesia...) but vanish weapon and wooden double look pretty good as reactions.
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The reservations regarding the Runesmith are perfectly understandable. I wouldn't fight a GM about it either.
Not taking those hefty defensive panalties might outright mean you don't need to cast Muscle Barrier (as often) in the first place. Saves actions and Focus points. And seeing how you don't have Reactive Strike, you won't attack THAT often in any given combat, but might get attacked quite frequently. I'm not sure this Mutagen is pulling its weight on your Reaper.
Vampiric Spell is repeatable and you can even use it with cantrips. It's a steady source of tempHP and you could in theory use it on a one-action damage spell like Concordant Choice or Deathly Scream. But you're right, it's not a lot for one action. Since you go Alchemist anyway, a Numbing Tonic in a Retrieval Belt might be a better use for that action (for regripping after drinking). And saves you a feat.
I still don't think Infuse Void is a good fit, though. It's just not action efficient enough on a melee character (not even one with reach). The bonus damage is nice, but not worth the action on its own. So all you're left with is a small chance to maybe get a focus spell back. It's fine on a Puppeteer who is more likely to actually use a focus spell every turn and can create more thralls to hopefully kill with it on their next turn. But for a Reaper, I genuinely doubt you'll get actual use out of it more than once per day. And at that point, you might as well just get a familiar for a guaranteed way to regain a focus point by spending an action.
Just sharing some (theoretical) thoughts here, though. What you have planned isn't bad in any way it just feels like very risky and I'm not convinced the payoff matches the risk.
Not sure I can help you much with your occult spells. Haven't looked at that for my guide at all and the last time I played an occult caster was back in 2020, before the remaster and the release of like 500 spells. ^^' But yes, a few reaction spells should help a lot. Also action efficient stuff like Time Jump, Loose Time's Arrow, Blink Charge. Starling also had a list of recommended spells in their Necro guide. That might be worth a look.
I would recommend Bloodspray Curse, though. It's reasonably effective, even on a successful save, and fits the flavor of The Blelf Blood Elf perfectly. Warding Agression might also be worth a look.
I should maybe go through the Occult List and add a few suggestions to my guide. Would also help myself when I finally get to play my Necro.
I'd recommend Yaoguai+Aiuvarin over Elf+Changeling, since you can take Awakened Yaoguai Heritage at level 5 (choose Born of Item) to buff your Will saves. It also gives you access to Yaoguai feats like Natural Mutagen or Signature Weapon (to get crit specialization).
I... I'd be a Chair Necromancer ?
Just choose an (elven) statue for a humanoid Yaoguai form, or for a Necromancer maybe the corpse of an Elf or his (failed?) phylactery.
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For a Blood Necromancer, an Awakened coffin seems appropriate. Backstory being one used by a vampire ofc. Maybe even the one where the vampire was sent to Final Death by adventurers and part of their soul and power came to rest in their coffin's frame.
Getting the Vampire undead archetype later on feels appropriate.
So yeah, hear me out. What about the Investigator archetype ?
Level 2 gives me two skills and +1 on most recall knowledge checks.
Level 4 gives me Stratagem, which would be incredible in the reaper case. Roll low ? Hit another target, or use your thralls. Basically true strike every round, and usually as a free action.
Level 6 might be known weakness (free recall knowledge with the free stratagem).
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I've had mixed experiences with how reliably free action Device a Strategem works, but YMMV, of course. If you're certain you can get it as a free action more often than not, go for it.
You could also pick up person of interest as a backup when fighting something that seems like it'll stick around for a few rounds. Though those things tend to be dangerous so maybe don't get too close as a caster.
If you go with the free recall knowledge on top of that, Bone Speaker comes highly recommended. I'm still sad that it doesn't come with it's own action compression, giving you a free RK on a creature when you rattle its bones (i.e. whack it on the head). Ah well.