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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
I was thinking on my drive to work today that I miss the sheer damage potential of the PF1 Paladin, and their two-handed weapon "obliterate this specific enemy" playstyle. Barbarians have high damage potential, are pretty tough, and have tacked on bonus damage types that might make it a nice little baseline to get something similar going.
If you were making a "Paladin" barbarian instinct or class archetype, how would you go about it?
Ideally it'll be someone who dives into the fray, can dish out Barbarian style chunky damage, can be Holy or Unholy, deals spirit damage, wears heavy armor, and can use charisma offensively somehow. Bonus points for resistance to disease and fear, and a heal option like Lay on Hands.
I could also see a ranger doing something in that vein.
For the Ranger, I feel the Vindicator was the attempt at the exact playstyle being mentioned here for the class. Unfortunately, the class archetype isn't very good, so it could certainly do with a glow-up.
As for a Paladin-esque Barbarian, here's how I'd go about their subclass:
* You gain the Invulnerable Rager and Shield Block feats as free feats. Choose a deity, and become bound by its edicts and anathema. You gain access to that deity's favored weapon if it's uncommon. If the weapon is a simple weapon, increase its damage die by one step, and if it's advanced, treat it as a martial weapon for the purposes of proficiency. If the weapon is agile, your bonus damage from Rage isn't halved when Striking with that weapon. You also gain your deity's sanctification; if you choose holy or unholy, you gain weakness to the other trait equal to half your level (minimum 1).
* For your instinct ability, change Rage's damage type to spirit. If you're holy or unholy, add your sanctification's trait to your Strikes when Striking with your deity's favored weapon.
* For your specialization ability, increase the damage from Rage from 2 to 5 when Striking with your deity's favored weapon. If you have greater weapon specialization, instead increase the damage from 5 to 12 when Striking with your deity's favored weapon.
* For raging resistance, you resist spirit damage. While raging, you gain a +2 status bonus to saves against fear effects, and if you roll a success on a save against a fear effect, you get a critical success instead. If you have the indomitable will class feature, when you roll a critical failure on a save against a fear effect, you get a failure instead.
This ought to cover the basics of a) wearing heavy armor and wielding shields well from the outset, b) hitting those opposed to your sanctification really hard, and c) being resistant to fear. You could increase Rage's damage here, but I think that might be too much for the starting utility provided, and resistance to disease is something the Barbarian's amazing Constitution ought to be able to help with naturally as well.
As for the other things mentioned, you could also give the subclass some exclusive feats:
* You could have a class feat that lets you Demoralize creatures with the trait opposed to your sanctification even while raging, and without taking a penalty for not speaking their language. If, while raging, you critically succeed on your Intimidation check against a target that's not on its home plane, the target must make a Will save against your Intimidation DC. On a critical failure, the creature is banished, as banishment; this is an incapacitation effect.
* As another feat, you could end your rage as a single action to apply a Lay on Hands-like effect based on your deity's font, healing either the living or undead and dealing your font's damage to the other.
* If you really wanted to, you could have a Divine Health-like feat where you gain a status bonus and better saves against disease or poison, which could turn into full-on immunity when you get the greater juggernaut feature.
I'd personally nix the Holy/Unholy weakness. No other sanctified class has that stipulation, IIRC, and I'm not sure the barbarian's greater amount of damage as compared to the other sanctified martial, the champion, really requires the downside.
I may even go as far as to make Raging Resistance about resisting Holy/Unholy damage, somehow. I know that the theme is that Holy and Unholy rip each other apart when they meet, but I think resisting those damage types would really sell the idea that you are a zealous berserker, and that your class features really encourage you to get in your moral opposite's face and then smash it.
I dunno if I'd want to make it the onlything that the barb would resist, though. Holy/Unholy is in a weird spot where it's both very niche but also very broad. Against creatures who are sanctified it becomes effectively Resist All, and against creatures without those traits it doesn't function at all.
Perpdepog wrote: I'd personally nix the Holy/Unholy weakness. No other sanctified class has that stipulation, IIRC, and I'm not sure the barbarian's greater amount of damage as compared to the other sanctified martial, the champion, really requires the downside. I'd be more than happy to, if you're willing to also nix the aforementioned access to an 8th-level feat, or the 1st-level general feat, or some combination of the above. That's already a lot of stuff you get for free without even needing to Rage.
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Teridax wrote: Perpdepog wrote: I'd personally nix the Holy/Unholy weakness. No other sanctified class has that stipulation, IIRC, and I'm not sure the barbarian's greater amount of damage as compared to the other sanctified martial, the champion, really requires the downside. I'd be more than happy to, if you're willing to also nix the aforementioned access to an 8th-level feat, or the 1st-level general feat, or some combination of the above. That's already a lot of stuff you get for free without even needing to Rage. That's fair. And I'm not too upset about losing either or both of those feats, personally, though I'm also thinking of this more as a barbarian instinct rather than a class archetype, so being heavily armored doesn't matter as much to me, and folks who want that heavy armor experience have Invulnerable Rager as an 8th-level feat in any case, even if it's not included.
I'd also probably restrict sanctified striking to when raging, though that doesn't really matter a ton, since you're likely to be raging every combat.
I do like that the extra damage from raging is so low, around where Spirit's is. That indicates that the instinct/archetype is meant for smashing Holy/Unholy foes, and fits best in those style of campaigns.
Yeah, I think if you dropped the free feats, then you could definitely lose the weakness and probably even bump up the Rage damage a touch, so that its damage variance gets a little closer to that of the Superstition instinct. I was definitely thinking that the sanctified Strikes should only come online when raging as well. As you mention, this would still give that instinct full range to pick up heavy armor and Shield Block if they want, so you could get to that full paladin fantasy fairly quickly still.
I'm struggling to come up with something that does this better than "take Champion Dedication on Spirit Instinct Barbarian", since that gets you what you want and is already in the system.
But if you wanted to do it as homebrew, make a new Instinct that gives the sanctification, trait on strikes, and disease/poison resistance. Spirit is probably a good base to work from. Then add instinct feats for some of the other stuff.
Tridus wrote: I'm struggling to come up with something that does this better than "take Champion Dedication on Spirit Instinct Barbarian", since that gets you what you want and is already in the system.
Possibly giving divine focus spells the rage trait so they can actually cast them while raging. But otherwise yeah, esp since the request was to spefcifically be two-handed big damage, which means that the defensive reactions and shield access are unneeded. It could well just be a variant instinct that grants Champion Archetype ala Spellshot and puts the Holy/Unholy on Spirit Instinct damage, since then it'd get heavy armour in a feat.
My hot take when reading just the thread title is just to play a Spirit Instinct Barbarian, with the slight tweak of instead of just spirit damage, that it be holy spirit damage.
I realize that doesn't give you everything you were asking about in the full post, but that's why I said hot take.
You can grab heavy armor via the sentinel or champion archetypes.
Barbarian class has some stuff to resist fear and disease, especially because the class has high con and enhanced fort saves, and class feats for fear.
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