Downtime: Shopping and Crafting
Because of the complexities of finding shops that are looking for items you want to sell or that offer ones you want to buy, dedicated shopping takes 1 day of downtime. It might take longer if you're selling a large number of goods, expensive items that require a wealthy buyer, or items that aren't in high demand.
I never knew about this. I've always understood shopping to be a thing you could just freely do while in a settlement. In fact, PFS even says you can wait until after downtime and leveling up to start buying things.
What amounts to dedicated shopping? Is it just any shopping where you're looking to buy or sell specific items, or does it need to be a lot of items? Can you avoid the 1 day cost by just walking into a shop and choosing from the items you see?
This is really one of those "no, there isn't any kind of formal definition of exactly what qualifies and never will be" things. Just like how the answer to "what goods will take more than one day to sell?" is "use your best judgement as a GM".
Can you avoid the 1 day cost by just walking into a shop and choosing from the items you see?
That is what I do. If you go shopping in town, it isn't going to take an entire day of downtime to find the settlement's standard markets and pick from the items that they have there.
I would only have it cost downtime to buy things if the player is asking for a specific item that has a reason to not be in the standard shops in the settlement - usually due to the item's rarity. Or if they are using Bargain Hunter to get a discount on the item.
And it doesn't cost downtime in PFS? That's the only way I can make sense of being able to wait until after downtime and XP gain to make purchases.
I'm primarily worried about the number of Chronicles I might need to correct.
And it doesn't cost downtime in PFS? That's the only way I can make sense of being able to wait until after downtime and XP gain to make purchases.
IIRC that is more of an abstraction to keep things consistent. You can't go on a shopping trip during a PFS adventure because most adventures are not happening in a settlement. So even the ones that do happen in or near a settlement you still don't get to go shopping during the adventure.
I also don't think that shopping takes any of your inter-adventure downtime that you earn. That downtime earned is used for Earn Income, Crafting, or Retraining. Someone more familiar with PFS rules might correct me on that though.
I've shopped during a mid-level PFS scenario, a useful, common scroll in a major city during time before a social event. Low-level scenarios often occur in a city; most often inside a Pathfinder lodge looking at my recent adventures! It'd have felt odd though to interrupt and grab something, yet low-level PCs lack the resources for game-warping items anyway, maybe some alchemy or minor scroll (that maybe they should've had equipped). Nothing like upgrading. Oh, and sometimes a question or bit of advice will lead a player to write something onto their character sheet before the formal VC assignment, like a javelin or backup resource.
But yeah, for PFS Downtime, it happens in Schrodinger's city where nothing's absolute. The concept of going to browse specific markets makes little sense, especially coupled with how the Pathfinder Society provides much of the services and gear.
And it doesn't cost downtime in PFS? That's the only way I can make sense of being able to wait until after downtime and XP gain to make purchases.
I'm primarily worried about the number of Chronicles I might need to correct.
It doesn't cost downtime in PFS because PFS says it doesn't cost downtime. That's PFS issuing a ruling for the PFS campaign specifically, similar to how you can get a lot of stuff done at the Grand Lodge like having runes applied/upgraded and you don't need to find a crafter.
That's just because PFS needs a firm rule for this to work so there isn't table variance. PFS also restricts what you can buy so you can't buy level 4 gloves at level 3 despite being in Absalom which is I think the highest level settlement on Golarian.
In a home game this takes however long the GM wants it to and it'll depend on lots of things. Trying to buy basic adventuring gear in a border city? Probably very, very easy. Trying to buy a specific item that's above the settlement level? Probably going to take a while to learn who even has one, let alone what they want in exchange for it.
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So even the ones that do happen in or near a settlement you still don't get to go shopping during the adventure.
Except that the start, right? The PFS rules state about mission briefings: "This will also often be the last opportunity your character has to purchase any needed equipment during the adventure." I also remember running a few scenarios that said "thanks to the couriers here, the players might as well be in the nearby settlement for item purchasing purposes" or something to that effect.
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Depends on the scenario.
There are even 2 side-by-side scenarios where our forever PFS GM ruled that we could not buy anything between the scenarios nor even get our usual free consumables because it made zero sense.
On the PFS boards though, it was expected (but not explicitly written in the scenarios) to be possible as usual. Though it still made zero sense.
Downtime: Shopping and Crafting
Because of the complexities of finding shops that are looking for items you want to sell or that offer ones you want to buy, dedicated shopping takes 1 day of downtime. It might take longer if you're selling a large number of goods, expensive items that require a wealthy buyer, or items that aren't in high demand.I never knew about this. I've always understood shopping to be a thing you could just freely do while in a settlement. In fact, PFS even says you can wait until after downtime and leveling up to start buying things.
What amounts to dedicated shopping? Is it just any shopping where you're looking to buy or sell specific items, or does it need to be a lot of items? Can you avoid the 1 day cost by just walking into a shop and choosing from the items you see?
Oh wow. That's news to me!
Don’t bring it up and it can stay news to your GM. Most people haven’t heard of the rule for good reason, and are happier without it.
I just found more information in GM Core about downtime shopping. This seems to provide somewhat clearer numbers for what can be accomplished in 1 day.
Running Downtime: Buying and Selling
After an adventure yields a windfall, the characters might have a number of items they want to sell. Likewise, when they're flush with currency, they might want to stock up on gear. It usually takes 1 day of downtime to sell off a few goods or shop around to buy a couple items. It can take longer to sell off a large number of goods, expensive items, or items that aren't in high demand.
So it would seem that even selling 2 dogslicers would take a day, maybe more since it's uncommon. But that doesn't necessarily mean 24 dogslicers would take 8 to 12 days. I would think a vendor willing to buy a weapon called a dogslicer would probably not be averse to buying more than two and likely already has the 12 sp needed, allowing that sale to conclude in the same amount of time. Same vendor may also buy the smelly armor. Cold iron gnome flickmace might take another day, though. Or not, since a cold iron gnome flickmace is more common than a dogslicer.
Another wrinkle in this "RaW is dumb" discovery is that it is also completely bypassed / nullified by the hireling mechanics.
If you are in a city and want to do shopping, you are also going to be able to afford to hire valets, runners, etc.
Moreover, the people of the city would go out of their way to foster a trustworthy intermediary just for that exact need of remote buying. A city like Absalom or Katapesh might even have a "Courier's Guild."
If a PC just wants to restock on some quickness potions and common scrolls, even if there is a time delay, they really shouldn't need to do so in person.
That idea is even historically accurate; the idea of the purchaser showing up to the store in question themselves was directly born from modern consumerism. Before then, that travel was the job for a lesser, either the buyer's valet or some in-training apprentice of the seller.
The job of a "valet" as the one who fetches things for the VIP is barely still clinging on in 2026 USA due to car parking, but it is still there to point at, lol.
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No shade to them, but while the pf2 authors seem aware that buying/selling goods was a rather time consuming affair, they were unaware that no one with gold to spend ever had to do that chore themselves. Such folk only visited shops as a social performance in and of itself. It was a chance to leave the isolation of one's estate/residence and engage with their peers.
A well to do Golarion woman might spend an entire morning at a hat shop, but she's never personally going to visit the potion seller to restock the manor's medicine cabinet. Even a "custom potion" she may need on the down low would be done via house-trusted courier / valet.
A single gp tax would reasonably cover that service, if the GM really wants to roleplay that out.
Another wrinkle in this "RaW is dumb" discovery is that it is also completely bypassed / nullified by the hireling mechanics.
If you are in a city and want to do shopping, you are also going to be able to afford to hire valets, runners, etc.
Moreover, the people of the city would go out of their way to foster a trustworthy intermediary just for that exact need of remote buying. A city like Absalom or Katapesh might even have a "Courier's Guild."
If a PC just wants to restock on some quickness potions and common scrolls, even if there is a time delay, they really shouldn't need to do so in person.That idea is even historically accurate; the idea of the purchaser showing up to the store in question themselves was directly born from modern consumerism. Before then, that travel was the job for a lesser, either the buyer's valet or some in-training apprentice of the seller.
The job of a "valet" as the one who fetches things for the VIP is barely still clinging on in 2026 USA due to car parking, but it is still there to point at, lol.____________________________
No shade to them, but while the pf2 authors seem aware that buying/selling goods was a rather time consuming affair, they were unaware that no one with gold to spend ever had to do that chore themselves. Such folk only visited shops as a social performance in and of itself. It was a chance to leave the isolation of one's estate/residence and engage with their peers.
A well to do Golarion woman might spend an entire morning at a hat shop, but she's never personally going to visit the potion seller to restock the manor's medicine cabinet. Even a "custom potion" she may need on the down low would be done via house-trusted courier / valet.A single gp tax would reasonably cover that service, if the GM really wants to roleplay that out.
That's the domain of the Entourage feat, which is a Rare feat.
I would not recommend giving the effects of Rare feats to the party for free.
Another wrinkle in this "RaW is dumb" discovery is that it is also completely bypassed / nullified by the hireling mechanics.
If you are in a city and want to do shopping, you are also going to be able to afford to hire valets, runners, etc.
Moreover, the people of the city would go out of their way to foster a trustworthy intermediary just for that exact need of remote buying. A city like Absalom or Katapesh might even have a "Courier's Guild."
If a PC just wants to restock on some quickness potions and common scrolls, even if there is a time delay, they really shouldn't need to do so in person.That idea is even historically accurate; the idea of the purchaser showing up to the store in question themselves was directly born from modern consumerism. Before then, that travel was the job for a lesser, either the buyer's valet or some in-training apprentice of the seller.
The job of a "valet" as the one who fetches things for the VIP is barely still clinging on in 2026 USA due to car parking, but it is still there to point at, lol.____________________________
No shade to them, but while the pf2 authors seem aware that buying/selling goods was a rather time consuming affair, they were unaware that no one with gold to spend ever had to do that chore themselves. Such folk only visited shops as a social performance in and of itself. It was a chance to leave the isolation of one's estate/residence and engage with their peers.
A well to do Golarion woman might spend an entire morning at a hat shop, but she's never personally going to visit the potion seller to restock the manor's medicine cabinet. Even a "custom potion" she may need on the down low would be done via house-trusted courier / valet.A single gp tax would reasonably cover that service, if the GM really wants to roleplay that out.
That's the domain of the Entourage feat, which is a Rare feat.
I would not recommend giving the effects of Rare feats...
Are you trolling? This is like saying that because a home in every port exists characters should never be able ask to stay at a farmer’s barn while traveling.
Perhaps shopping/selling is so restricted because of the massive amount of money it could generate.
A level 1 Earn Income task would grant 2 sp per day on a success or 3 sp a crit success. Failing would only give 2 cp, and crit failing would only give you a knee to the nethers if you're lucky.
Selling 24 dogslicers in a single day would grant 12 sp, no check required. Carryall (aka floating disk) would be a money printer.
Selling 24 dogslicers in a single day would grant 12 sp, no check required. Carryall (aka floating disk) would be a money printer.
You aren't accounting for the time needed to acquire those dogslicers in the first place.
Crafting them as quickly as possible would take 24 days and cost 24 sp, so selling them for 12 sp would be losing money.
Crafting them at maximum efficiency would take (I think) 48 days and would still cost 12 sp. So you still wouldn't be making any money.
Using 'Crafting Goods for the Market' is also an Earn Income process, so it would be the same time and income as Earn Income in any other way.
The only way to sell 24 dogslicers for 12 sp in one day would be to get them from adventuring. And there are guidelines in place for how much wealth the characters should be getting from adventuring. Selling those dogslicers would be accounted for in that.
If the party is trying to game the system by going to the neighborhood goblin clans and raiding them of dogslicers every day, the response would be either 1) the goblins run out of dogslicers to loot, or 2) the campaign ends because the party is no longer being adventurers, they are being brigands and merchants.
Being brigands is a perfectly valid campaign smh
Well, sure. But you might want to mix things up a bit. Raiding the same level 2 goblin tribe for 10 levels of gameplay is going to get a bit stale.
And if the level 10 party is moving on to raid a level 10 bugbear settlement instead, then the loot that they get is back to being governed by the Wealth by Level adventuring rules rather than the Earn Income Downtime rules.
Are you trolling? This is like saying that because a home in every port exists characters should never be able ask to stay at a farmer’s barn while traveling.That's the domain of the Entourage feat, which is a Rare feat.
I would not recommend giving the effects of Rare feats to the party for free.
I had considered using my Contrarian alias (generally reserved for joking and devil's advocate situations), but since I didn't, I'm pretty serious.
The fact that I did consider it though does indicate that I understand the tenuous nature of the claim.
A Home In Every Port gaurantees lodging. Without it you would need to make skill checks (such as sneaking in with Stealth, Intimidate to Coerce, or Diplomacy to Make a Request) or pay money for the lodging. Even then there is no guarantee. The feat also is a strong indicator of the positive favor you have among the community, which also isn't a given without the feat. For example, the family housing you might lie to the authorities about your presence in their home.
The same is true of Entourage. The feat guarantees you have someone (a group of someones in fact) on hand that are willing to help you with mundane tasks free of charge. Without it you would need to hire people and/or make skill checks, which could eat into your downtime and still wouldn't have an availability guarantee.
I do not believe that lacking a feat means that the desired action or activity is necessarily a prohibited (the game stops making much sense in many scenarios otherwise), but attempting the same things without the appropriate should not be nearly as easy, and never gauranteed.
The hirelings mechanic is baseline, no feat needed.
There are example jobs adjacent to the generic hirelings, but the task is very much suited to the generic option.
An expert proficiency "skilled hireling" is 5 sp per day.
There is simply no chance that a valet to run and buy/sell common goods on your behalf would exceed the bounds of "a skilled hireling"
The hirelings mechanic is baseline, no feat needed.
There are example jobs adjacent to the generic hirelings, but the task is very much suited to the generic option.
An expert proficiency "skilled hireling" is 5 sp per day.
There is simply no chance that a valet to run and buy/sell common goods on your behalf would exceed the bounds of "a skilled hireling"
I agree.
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The hirelings mechanic is baseline, no feat needed.
There are example jobs adjacent to the generic hirelings, but the task is very much suited to the generic option.
An expert proficiency "skilled hireling" is 5 sp per day.
There is simply no chance that a valet to run and buy/sell common goods on your behalf would exceed the bounds of "a skilled hireling"
Buying the services might cost another day of downtime, come to think of it.
Selling 24 dogslicers in a single day would grant 12 sp, no check required. Carryall (aka floating disk) would be a money printer.You aren't accounting for the time needed to acquire those dogslicers in the first place.
Crafting them as quickly as possible would take 24 days and cost 24 sp, so selling them for 12 sp would be losing money.
Crafting them at maximum efficiency would take (I think) 48 days and would still cost 12 sp. So you still wouldn't be making any money.Using 'Crafting Goods for the Market' is also an Earn Income process, so it would be the same time and income as Earn Income in any other way.
The only way to sell 24 dogslicers for 12 sp in one day would be to get them from adventuring. And there are guidelines in place for how much wealth the characters should be getting from adventuring. Selling those dogslicers would be accounted for in that.
If the party is trying to game the system by going to the neighborhood goblin clans and raiding them of dogslicers every day, the response would be either 1) the goblins run out of dogslicers to loot, or 2) the campaign ends because the party is no longer being adventurers, they are being brigands and merchants.
Yes, going out of your way to obtain or Craft the dogslicers wouldn't be the most practical way to gain money during what is supposed to be downtime. But if you are already fighting your way through a camp of goblin brigands, you will naturally come across a large number of dogslicers, leather armor sets, shortbows, and arrows during encounter mode and exploration mode.
But would you take them? Would you really go out of your way to strip these dead goblins naked so you have some extra coin after the adventure? Well, yeah. Turns out it's a lot of extra coin, and it's totally worth it to do this if you can trivially sell it.
In D&D 5.0e, there's a rule that says monster equipment typically can't be sold because it's too worn down. I presume that this is to stop players from feeling compelled to strip every dead body naked like it's Skyrim or Baldur's Gate 3.
I think this downtime shopping rule might be PF2e's approach to achieve the same end. It's not impossible, but there are usually better ways to make money between adventures.
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Buying the services might cost another day of downtime, come to think of it.
"No, no, NO,
I wanted a dogslicer, not a sliced dog!Great. Just great! Now we need a cleric too."
"No, no, NO,
I wanted a dogslicer, not a sliced dog!"
Ehh. I is wanting both.