So here's my situation and, eventually, question. In my latest campaign, the party has stumbled across an extremely nice magic ring that grants additional spell slots, among other things. Given that my two ring slots consists of a perfectly functional Ring of Protection +2 and my current Arcane Bond ring (which is this far entirely unenchanted/buffed etc etc), I'm keen to make the new ring my new Arcane Bond.
This seems fairly straightfoward, if awkward. Destroy/lose my current ring, wait a week, ritual bond the new ring. I might ask the DM if we can just skip the week wait and I'll pay extra gold or something.
But this situation caused me to start wondering: Is if there are any real limitations (outside what item types an Arcane Bond can strictly be) to what you can make your bonded item? For example, the new ring is a homebrew magic item. It's fairly nice. But it's basically just a unique wondrous item.
But could I make an artifact my bonded item? A sapient magical item? Strictly speaking, it seems possible, RAW. Given that we're currently pursuing an amulet connected to the Outer Gods, I'm kind of wondering if I could make that my bonded item if we found it. Would that be possible? I'm just wondering if I'm missing something.
Review the Section on Bonded Objects (it's a bit verbose and non-sequential). Caster Level of the Crafting feat AND Magic Item is a requirement. This puts artifacts and such out of reach from a RAW perspective, it's up to your GM to allow it.
Wizard 7: he needs two things; 1) crafting item feat Forge Ring has a minimum of 7th level. 2) Ring of Protection +2 requirement of 6th level (= 3*2).
You start with a bonded mwk blob. The ring can be replaced/remade for $200*Wiz plus magic item cost of $(magic item price/2) (ignoring special materials) taking 1 week. IF you have the magic item item it replaces the magic item cost above. If you want a fancy ring, say Platinum(Pt) with 100gp diamond and poison pill compartment at $170 (Focus Magic Jar and Shield Other), you have to buy that before you start the ritual. A masterwork tool is 55gp. Masterwork is generally 50gp. There's considerable planning involved with PF1.
There is also upgrading an item. The basics is final cost - initial cost. This would be when you initially go from a mwk blob to +2 Ring of protection at Wiz 7 for 4000gp taking 8 days(standard crafting time). Then again from +2($8000) to +3($18000) at Wiz 9 paying 5000gp taking 10 days. This avoids the $200*Wiz cost and 1 week ritual.
As mentioned, if you want to use a nicer/fancy mwk item it's best to switch to it a low level to reduce the cost.
When/If you change to a new item it is sensible to pay the other half to upgrade your existing bonded object into a regular magic item to save the investment and wear it on another finger. You should have the Forge Ring crafting feat to do this.
ADVICE:
In general it is better to choose Bonded Object Amulet. Lower crafting feat requirement of 3rd and more varied choices (Aegis of recovery -> Amulet of Spellcunning -> Amulet of Spellmastery).
It is best to switch to a fancy mwk item early to reduce costs.
Quote: Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. Weapons acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material. If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be held in one hand. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.
A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared. This spell is treated like any other spell cast by the wizard, including casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the wizard's level. This spell cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities. The bonded object cannot be used to cast spells from the wizard's opposition schools (see arcane school).
A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required item creation feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat. For example, a wizard with a bonded dagger must be at least 5th level to add magic abilities to the dagger (see the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat in Feats). If the bonded object is a wand, it loses its wand abilities when its last charge is consumed, but it is not destroyed and it retains all of its bonded object properties and can be used to craft a new wand. The magic properties of a bonded object, including any magic abilities added to the object, only function for the wizard who owns it. If a bonded object's owner dies, or the item is replaced, the object reverts to being an ordinary masterwork item of the appropriate type.
If a bonded object is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the wizard prepares his spells. If the object of an arcane bond is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per wizard level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Items replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous bonded item. A wizard can designate an existing magic item as his bonded item. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a bonded item.
The wizard doesn't need the Crafting feat. For enchanting the bonded item, only he is treated as if he had it.
He needs the caster level required by the feat to add abilities to it.
Artifacts are unusual magical items, and they are very difficult to destroy. A bonded item loses all its properties if the owner bonds a different item (even those it had before being bonded), so allowing them to be bonded would be an easy and low cost way to destroy artifacts. I would strongly suggest your GM not to allow that (theoretically, the rules allow it).
That said, some minor artifact, like the Staff of the Magi is a borderline high powered magical item and can exist in multiple exemplars, so allowing them to be bonded isn't that problematic.
P.S: "A bonded item loses all its properties if the owner bonds a different item (even those it had before being bonded),". From what I recall, what happens to a bonded item when the owner dies was discussed in several threads, and there was an official ruling, either in one of SKR's comments or in a FAQ, but in a fast check of the CRB FAQs, I haven't found it.
The Wizard ability says that the item reverts to a masterwork item, but there is wiggle room to argue that it reverts to its former abilities. It is a GM call. I would almost certainly do that if I allowed someone to bond a major artifact.
Azothath wrote: Review the Section on Bonded Objects (it's a bit verbose and non-sequential). Caster Level of the Crafting feat AND Magic Item is a requirement. This puts artifacts and such out of reach from a RAW perspective, it's up to your GM to allow it.
Wizard 7: he needs two things; 1) crafting item feat Forge Ring has a minimum of 7th level. 2) Ring of Protection +2 requirement of 6th level (= 3*2).
You start with a bonded mwk blob. The ring can be replaced/remade for $200*Wiz plus magic item cost of $(magic item price/2) (ignoring special materials) taking 1 week. IF you have the magic item item it replaces the magic item cost above. If you want a fancy ring, say Platinum(Pt) with 100gp diamond and poison pill compartment at $170 (Focus Magic Jar and Shield Other), you have to buy that before you start the ritual. A masterwork tool is 55gp. Masterwork is generally 50gp. There's considerable planning involved with PF1.
There is also upgrading an item. The basics is final cost - initial cost. This would be when you initially go from a mwk blob to +2 Ring of protection at Wiz 7 for 4000gp taking 8 days(standard crafting time). Then again from +2($8000) to +3($18000) at Wiz 9 paying 5000gp taking 10 days. This avoids the $200*Wiz cost and 1 week ritual.
As mentioned, if you want to use a nicer/fancy mwk item it's best to switch to it a low level to reduce the cost.
When/If you change to a new item it is sensible to pay the other half to upgrade your existing bonded object into a regular magic item to save the investment and wear it on another finger. You should have the Forge Ring crafting feat to do this.
ADVICE:
In general it is better to choose Bonded Object Amulet. Lower crafting feat requirement of 3rd and more varied choices (Aegis of recovery -> Amulet of Spellcunning -> Amulet of Spellmastery).
It is best to switch to a fancy mwk item early...
Wait, I need to have the crafting feats to make an existing magic item my Bonded Item? I knew that I'd need them if I wanted to further enhance it (beyond its existing stats and being bonded), but I didn't read anywhere that I needed them just to make the bond.
If there's a misunderstanding going on, then to clarify, I already have the Ring of Protection +2. I don't need to make one or enhance my bonded item into one. I'm planning on making the Fireseeker's Ring (homebrew magic item the DM made) into my new bonded item.
Diego Rossi wrote: Quote: Artifacts are unusual magical items, and they are very difficult to destroy. A bonded item loses all its properties if the owner bonds a different item (even those it had before being bonded), so allowing them to be bonded would be an easy and low cost way to destroy artifacts. I would strongly suggest your GM not to allow that (theoretically, the rules allow it).
That said, some minor artifact, like the Staff of the Magi is a borderline high powered magical item and can exist in multiple exemplars, so allowing them to be bonded isn't that problematic.
P.S: "A bonded item loses all its properties if the owner bonds a different item (even those it had before being bonded),". From what I recall, what happens to a bonded item when the owner dies was discussed in several threads, and there was an official ruling, either in one of SKR's comments or in a FAQ, but in a fast check of the CRB FAQs, I haven't found it.
The Wizard ability says that the item reverts to a masterwork item, but there is wiggle room to argue that it reverts to its former abilities. It is a GM call. I would almost certainly do that if I allowed someone to bond a major artifact.
Additionally, depending on the artifact, there should also really be consequences. Most artifacts are deeply connected to beings of power, or times of great historical significance. If you're connecting yourself to something forged by an Empyreal Lord or the Outer Planes, for example, you might be drawing the attention and influence of real power.
A Staff of the Magi and the like is probably fine though.
To my knowledge as well, there is nothing RAW preventing you from binding any magic item or bonded artifact you want as your bonded item. If anyone knows differently, please feel free to correct me.
Onestep wrote: Wait, I need to have the crafting feats to make an existing magic item my Bonded Item? I knew that I'd need them if I wanted to further enhance it (beyond its existing stats and being bonded), but I didn't read anywhere that I needed them just to make the bond.
If there's a misunderstanding going on, then to clarify, I already have the Ring of Protection +2. I don't need to make one or enhance my bonded item into one. I'm planning on making the Fireseeker's Ring (homebrew magic item the DM made) into my new bonded item.
I'm aware but I gave an close example of a seventh level wizard creating a +2 then at 9th a +3 ring.
I detailed that the wizard needs to meet the level of the crafting feat and the item. That's it. He does not need the feat to create the bonded object.
However, to save invested cash when bonding a new object (like an existing magic item), it is best to upgrade the old one into a regular magic item and for that you should have the feat.
There are 3 processes. 1) Bonding an object (the ritual). 2) Giving the Bonded Object Magical properties (crafting/upgrading). 3) Crafting/upgrading a Bonded Object into a standard Magic Item (as you only paid half thus it only works for you but as a standard Magic Item it works for anyone and sticks around). Ignoring #3 means you throw thousands of gp away IF you Bond a new item.
My advice/example is for anyone playing a wizard with a bonded object so they know what to do.
You have a mwk Bonded blob ($0)[ring], a +2 ring of protection ($8000)[ring] CL 6, a Fireseeker's Ring(Homebrew) ($?)[ring] CL ?
Bonding the Fireseeker's Ring means you have to do the ritual. You should have to meet it's creation caster level but it is highly likely your GM will give you a pass.
Azothath wrote: Onestep wrote: Wait, I need to have the crafting feats to make an existing magic item my Bonded Item? I knew that I'd need them if I wanted to further enhance it (beyond its existing stats and being bonded), but I didn't read anywhere that I needed them just to make the bond.
If there's a misunderstanding going on, then to clarify, I already have the Ring of Protection +2. I don't need to make one or enhance my bonded item into one. I'm planning on making the Fireseeker's Ring (homebrew magic item the DM made) into my new bonded item.
I'm aware but I gave an close example of a seventh level wizard creating a +2 then at 9th a +3 ring.
I detailed that the wizard needs to meet the level of the crafting feat and the item. That's it. He does not need the feat to create the bonded object.
However, to save invested cash when bonding a new object (like an existing magic item), it is best to upgrade the old one into a regular magic item and for that you should have the feat.
There are 3 processes. 1) Bonding an object (the ritual). 2) Giving the Bonded Object Magical properties (crafting/upgrading). 3) Crafting/upgrading a Bonded Object into a standard Magic Item (as you only paid half thus it only works for you but as a standard Magic Item it works for anyone and sticks around). Ignoring #3 means you throw thousands of gp away IF you Bond a new item.
My advice/example is for anyone playing a wizard with a bonded object so they know what to do.
You have a mwk Bonded blob ($0)[ring], a +2 ring of protection ($8000)[ring] CL 6, a Fireseeker's Ring(Homebrew) ($?)[ring] CL ?
Bonding the Fireseeker's Ring means you have to do the ritual. You should have to meet it's creation caster level but it is highly likely your GM will give you a pass.
Oh, so let me get this straight, because I'm a little confused. You've been very patient, but there's a fair bit of information coming my way and I'm not sure if I'm interpreting what you're saying and how it all connects correctly. So to summarise:
1)If I just want to make an existing magic item (as an example, the Fireseeker's Ring/ Ring of Protection +2) my bond and use it as standard (and don't care about the previous bonded item or money wasted etc etc), then I can do with the Arcane Bond ritual, as per usual.
2)You're giving me general advice for swapping bonded items in general, that I should upgrade bonded item effects (which can be created without feats) into full magical item effects (which require feats) before swapping, so that they remain even after they are no longer my Arcane Bond and I don't waste whatever money I poured into the bonded item. To do this, I need the feat. Is that correct?
3)I've never heard of needing to match the creation caster level to make an item my bonded item. Could I ask where you got this info from? It isn't mentioned in the Arcane Bond Wizard Class description or anywhere I can see in guides magic item creation. Given it's a homebrew item, I'd have to check with the DM. I'm sure he will, as you say, give me a pass if it comes up. If I've misunderstood what you've said again, then my apologies.
Thanks!
I think you mixed stuff up there, op doesn't want to craft his bonded item like he can, he want to designate another, already magical ring, as his bounded item. which is a different process.
to make his bounded item magical (or enhance it) he need to fulfill the item's crafting feat requirement that match his bounded item. then he can craft it into a magical item or enhance an already magical bonded item using the magic item creation rules.
one can also pay for another person to do this. (if he trust him with his bounded item that is)
to bound with a new item of the same type as his bonded item a different process is needed (that week of attuning etc) but he doesn't need any requirement beside what is describe in the process of replacing his bonded item.
Also I personally rule that the point about bounded item losing all it's abilities once the master bound with a new item should only include what the master added with his class ability of crafting his bounded item. an item that was enhanced by other means shouldn't loose that enhancement just because the master took a week to attune it and then another to attune a different item.
Onestep wrote: Azothath wrote: ...
You have a mwk Bonded blob ($0)[ring], a +2 ring of protection ($8000)[ring] CL 6, a Fireseeker's Ring(Homebrew) ($?)[ring] CL ?
Bonding the Fireseeker's Ring means you have to do the ritual. You should have to meet it's creation caster level but it is highly likely your GM will give you a pass.
Oh, so let me get this straight, because I'm a little confused. You've been very patient, but there's a fair bit of information coming my way and I'm not sure if I'm interpreting what you're saying and how it all connects correctly. So to summarize:
1)If I just want to make an existing magic item (as an example, the Fireseeker's Ring/ Ring of Protection +2) my bond and use it as standard (and don't care about the previous bonded item or money wasted etc etc), then I can do with the Arcane Bond ritual, as per usual.
2)You're giving me general advice for swapping bonded items in general, that I should upgrade bonded item effects (which can be created without feats) into full magical item effects (which require feats) before swapping, so that they remain even after they are no longer my Arcane Bond and I don't waste whatever money I poured into the bonded item. To do this, I need the feat. Is that correct?
3)I've never heard of needing to match the creation caster level to make an item my bonded item. Could I ask where you got this info from? It isn't mentioned in the Arcane Bond Wizard Class description or anywhere I can see in guides magic item creation. Given it's a homebrew item, I'd have to check with the DM. I'm sure he will, as you say, give me a pass if it comes up. If I've misunderstood what you've said again, then my apologies.
1) correct. Bonding Ritual $200*Wiz and 1 week. Your GM will give you a pass on the item so no need to worry. It's what I'd do.
2) You may need to do this in 5 levels or so - The First part my chat is a guide on what to do. Different GMs will look at it slightly differently as RAW is a bit of a jumble. There's a lot of planning ahead with PF1.
3) lol, the level requirements are in the CRB. You have to follow the example they give and figure it out by backtracking. They assume the PC will be giving the Bonded Object magical properties based on an existing item description, just copying the powers and cost. They talk about Bonding an existing Magic Item but do not give a waiver on the crafting feat or item's Caster Level requirements. So using the same process you would need to meet those.
You can imagine the havoc a 5th level wizard who Bonded an Apollyon Ring at CL 20 would cause.
Turning a Bonded Object into a standard Magic Item is a bit of a surprise for some people. They're just not used to the wily ways of Magic and Magic Item Creation along with upgrading items. I feel you should have the Magic Item creation feat to do this and make it all "legal" unless you are in a campaign with no crafting (like PFS). Then again, it IS a Bonded Object and special and RAW let you go halfway so some GMs will let you finish off your bonded object as it is only one type of wondrous item or weapon and you are going to pay $200*Wiz (to replace it) for essentially nothing. Consider that after Bonding a standard magic item, it is still a standard magic item and still will be after you swap it out for a new bonded object.
Yeah, I'm not seeing the rational for the wizard needing to be sufficient level to create a magic item in order to bond with it, just not finding the connection in the text.
|
2 people marked this as a favorite.
|
I quote the CRB again:
CRB wrote: A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object
as if he has the required item creation feats
and
if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat.
"A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required item creation feat" is a straight permission to do that without the feat when improving a bonded item.
"A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object ... if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat" means that the wizard can improve the item only if he has the caster level that is a prerequisite for the feat.
So a wizard can take a ring as his bonded item, and when he reaches CL 7 (the CL that is the prerequisite for the feat), he can further enhance it without needing the feat.
There is no minimum CL to bond a magical item, only to enhance it.
Azothath wrote: You can imagine the havoc a 5th level wizard who Bonded an Apollyon Ring at CL 20 would cause. I really cannot imagine any havoc caused specifically by making it a bonded item (as opposed to having such a ring in the first place).
Indeed, since it an artifact, making it a bonded item wastes the ability to add magical properties without the feat.
What havoc are you seeing that I am not?
Azothath wrote: Turning a Bonded Object into a standard Magic Item is a bit of a surprise for some people. Not so much a "surprise" as a thing nobody but you can find in the rules. Again, what are you seeing that I am not?
If the player has an artifact then the player has an artifact. Making it a bonded object doesn’t really do anything to improve on that.
The only real advantage to having an artifact as a bonded object is that it’s nearly impossible to sunder. But most GMs aren’t going to attack your bonded objects anyway. Conversely, I could see a lot of plots involving interested parties wanting to steal your artifacts.
So after reading through this, and speaking to my DM, it seems like yes, I'm free to use any appropriate magic item I find as my bonded object, but he is also of the opinion that if I use any kind of significant artifact as my bonded object then very powerful individuals will likely have an interest in me very fast as well.
Recent threads in Rules Questions
|
