| The Total Package |
I had a question regarding the following spell:
Confusing Colors
Spell 8
Illusion
Incapacitation
Manipulate
Subtle
Visual
Traditions arcane, occult
Range 120 feet; Area 20-foot burst
Defense Will; Duration sustained up to 1 minute
A cloud of cascading, ever-changing colors manifests in the air. Creatures are dazzled while inside the cloud, as are those within 20 feet of the cloud’s area. A creature must attempt a Will save if it is inside the cloud when you cast it, enters the cloud, ends its turn within the cloud, or uses a Seek or Interact action on the cloud. A creature currently affected by the cloud doesn’t need to attempt new saves.
Success The creature is unaffected.
Failure The creature is confused for 1d4 rounds.
Critical Failure The creature is stunned for 1d4 rounds. After the stunned condition ends, the creature is confused for the remaining duration of the spell.
My question is "A creature currently affected by the cloud doesn’t need to attempt new saves." Now lets say they are in the 20ft dazzled radius, is that still considered "a creature currently affected by the cloud"?
| Claxon |
I would agree with NorrKnekten on that's how it should be played, but from a purely "how the rules read" being dazzled is an effect, that's caused by the cloud, and thus affecting those within 20ft. It's poorly worded. Because you could end up interpreting it as those within that 20ft band outside the cloud's burst area are somehow immune to making any more saves against the spell, as long as they stay within the area affected because they're "affected".
But I agree that the intention when they say "creatures currently affected by the cloud" means creatures who have rolled saves against the stun/confusion affect and rolled a failure or worse. Those who rolled a success would be unaffected, and need to get out of the cloud to avoid further saves.
| Claxon |
Creatures who linger in the area after recovering from the confusion also rolls new saves since they are no longer affected. No immunity here.
But yeah, If dazzled would count as being "affected by the cloud" then you would never roll another save beyond the initial cast.
Well, they'd have to get out of the cloud itself and stay within 20ft to maintain the dazzled affect, while the confusion runs out. And since confusion has you attack the closest thing, it could be hard to get yourself out.
| NorrKnekten |
Its more that a creature which recovers from confusion needs to move out of the cloud on their turn or risk becoming confused again.
Since you don't make any new saves while already confused by it there won't be any refreshing of confusion durations, so you will get an opportunity to leave the area provided it wasnt a crit failure.
| Claxon |
Its more that a creature which recovers from confusion needs to move out of the cloud on their turn or risk becoming confused again.
Since you don't make any new saves while already confused by it there won't be any refreshing of confusion durations, so you will get an opportunity to leave the area provided it wasnt a crit failure.
Yes, that is effectively how it will work out, except on a crit failure.
There's also a possibility that due to circumstances you may not be able to get out of the 20ft burst area of the cloud. What if you a dwarf laying prone on the ground, which also happens to be difficult terrain (when the confusion wears off)? You might realize you should try to get out, but won't be able to.
| NorrKnekten |
The full text is that a creature rolls the save upon;
-The spell being cast on them.
-Ending their turn inside the cloud.
-Entering the cloud
-Interacting with the cloud
So they roll it immediatly upon entering the cloud, even if this was done through forced movement.
In reality this rarely matters for detrimental effects as they in general tick down on at the victims end of turn, But here the target would become offguard and cannot use reactions if they fail so there are scenarios where a player absolutely would feel cheated if they pushed a monster into the cloud and it didnt end up with the detrimental effects.
| Claxon |
What would happen if the following round I cast Gravity Well and they fail, do they immediately have to roll the Will Save or when they start their own turn?
Casting Gravity Well, its impact will will depend on the save of the individuals impacted.
But the relatively short answer is, on its own gravity well does nothing that directly interacts with Confusing Colors.
Now, what may happen is that characters that were not in the initial burst may be drug into the cloud.
Please recall that confusing colors forces a character to make a save when:
1) If they are in the burst when the spell is cast (obviously this doesn't apply in this scenario)
2) When creatures enter the cloud (most applicable thing with Gravity Well, characters may be drug into the cloud)
3) End turn in the cloud
4) Seeks or interacts with the cloud
So, the most likely thing is that you position gravity well in just the right way to drag additional enemies into the cloud. However, it is only likely to succeed in dragging them into the cloud if they fail their save. And even then if they were 20ft away from the cloud area they still won't be drug in unless they crit fail.
So....this could maybe be a good combo but it's going to depend a lot on the positioning of the enemy relative to the cloud. And they'll have a turn to act in between the cloud appearing and your casting of gravity well, in which case they may create distance between themselves and the cloud.
| TheFinish |
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Unfortunately there's nothing you can do in that regard since the spell specifies it affects all creatures.
One way around this is for everyone to get echo receptors since they give you precise hearing out to 40 feet, allowing you to ignore both Dazzled and Blinded at that range.
| Claxon |
Unfortunately there's nothing you can do in that regard since the spell specifies it affects all creatures.
One way around this is for everyone to get echo receptors since they give you precise hearing out to 40 feet, allowing you to ignore both Dazzled and Blinded at that range.
That is a really cool item I didn't know existed.
| NorrKnekten |
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Wouldn't Cats Eye Elixir work as a cheap fix.
For the next minute, you reduce the flat check to target hidden creatures to 5, and you don't need to attempt a flat check to target concealed creatures. These benefits apply only against creatures within 30 feet of you.
Dazzled says all creatures are concealed to you so I dont see why not.
| TheFinish |
Wouldn't Cats Eye Elixir work as a cheap fix.
Cat's Eye Elixir wrote:For the next minute, you reduce the flat check to target hidden creatures to 5, and you don't need to attempt a flat check to target concealed creatures. These benefits apply only against creatures within 30 feet of you.Dazzled says all creatures are concealed to you so I dont see why not.
Yes, it'd work fine. Since Dazzled just makes creatures concealed, anything that lets you ignore the Concealed condition works. Echo receptors work, cat's eye elixir works, Blind Fight (the feat) works. Probably a lot of other things.
Confusing colors is a Rank 8 spell though so I suggested the more permanent item based solution. Cat's eye elixir only lasts one minute, which is its main drawback.