Shooter's camouflage Question (does it work while flying, and does Legendary Sneak work while flying)

[Bl1m]

Me and one of my DM's were arguing about how hiding works when it doesn't require cover, mostly about being revealed as to open space in the air.(with my focus on being about 30-60 ft in the air.) I wanted to know if you stay Hidden till seen via check. He claims it makes no sense to be able to just stay hidden mid air, yes I have checked to see that you can sneak while flying(via swift sneak) So can we get clarity these rulings, 1. Does one get seen if they stay in the open after the Hide Resolves. 2.Weather you agree that one should stay hidden or not, I want to hear on how it may or may not make sense. 3. My DM has come to an choice that works for both me and him, that's not what I'm asking about. Thx.

[Squiggit]

I mean, being able to hide completely out in the open with nothing obscuring you doesn't make sense, but that's also literally what Legendary Sneak does. The feat is logic defying by design.

[Finoan]

Neither of those feats are affected by using Fly as your movement type. The Sneak action allows using a Fly speed to Sneak with as long as you have that as an actual movement Speed.

For Shooter's Camouflage the restriction is that you are in the proper terrain. If you are flying in a location that is not the proper terrain, then you are not going to benefit from the feat. The question would be in a scenario where the ground is the proper terrain, but you are flying so high that the terrain you are in is no longer part of that terrain.

So for example, if you have Camouflage for Urban terrain, but you are flying well above the height of the houses and buildings in the vicinity, then I could see ruling that you are in a Sky terrain instead of the Urban terrain.

Legendary Sneak has no restriction like that. You are simply allowed to Hide and Sneak without any cover or concealment. That includes places like the middle of an empty room, An open space directly in front of your opponent, or being 35 feet in the air over an empty field.

Like Squiggit says, it doesn't make any logical sense. It is a superhero fantasy ability.

[Finoan]

Oh, also be aware of the action economy and mechanics of Hide, Sneak, Strike, and Fly.

When you Strike, regardless of what feats you have or if you have cover or concealment or neither, you will become Observed after the Strike action. You have to spend an action on Hide to become Hidden and then Sneak to become Undetected.

You also have to spend an action on Fly to remain airborne and not fall, though many GMs are going to allow Sneak with a Fly action to count. I find it hard to rule otherwise. Sneak uses Stride or Fly as a subordinate action, and using Fly as a subordinate action would still have all of the normal effects and traits of the Fly action - such as keeping you airborne.

So a round consisting of Strike, Hide, Sneak(Fly) would work fine.

A round consisting of Strike, Fly, Hide would also work decently well, but enemies are going to know what square you are in even though they can't see you there (which makes for a rather bizarre narrative description, but that is how the mechanics of stealth work).

However, a round consisting of Strike, Strike, Hide and you are going to fall out of the air.

And a round consisting of Strike, Strike, Fly and you are going to be observed at the end of your turn even with Legendary Sneak and Shooter's Camouflage.