Witch Dedication Patron's Lesson Suggestion

[Orthallon]

Currently the witch dedication has you select a patron, however there is no RAW means for you to learn the default lesson of that patron. I believe this to be a game balance thing and I 100% support that aspect. I do think it is unfortunate that there is no means to learn your patron's lesson at a later time though, even though you can pick up other lessons of varying power. This can especially be a factor when trying to develop some lore and/or RP relationship between a character and their patron.

My suggestion is to allow a means for the 'dedicated witch' to be able learn their patron's specific lesson (not lessons from other patrons!) by selecting it with another feat at higher level. Either Basic Witchcraft > Basic Lesson (minimum level to acquire = 4), or Advanced Witchcraft > Greater Lesson (minimum level to acquire = 12). By acquiring at a higher level, and requiring the additional cost of another class (archetype) feat, I feel like game balance is preserved.

Appreciate thoughts / feedback. *looks at Paizo* :)

[The Raven Black]

I would allow it as a Basic Lesson. But it is definitely homebrew.

[Captain Morgan]

So what does this entail exactly? Just the starting hex cantrip and 1st rank spell? Not the familiar ability?

Personally, I would rather get the option to get more hex cantrips for actual witches before I opened up the option to archetype witches.

[Finoan]

Considering that the other classes that have a way to get the core mechanic of the class are getting a nerfed version of it, I think it would need to be more restrictive than a Hex Cantrip or permanent Familiar ability.

Magus Archetype can get Spellstrike at once per battle.
Rogue Archetype gets Sneak Attack with a non-scaling amount of damage.
Thaumaturge Archetype gets one Implement and only the first entry-level benefit for it.

Things like that.

So if gaining the Hex Cantrip via Witch Archetype, I would do something like make it a 'Focus 1' instead of a 'Focus Cantrip'.

[Orthallon]

Good inputs. Thanks all.

[shroudb]

Finoan wrote:

Considering that the other classes that have a way to get the core mechanic of the class are getting a nerfed version of it, I think it would need to be more restrictive than a Hex Cantrip or permanent Familiar ability.

Magus Archetype can get Spellstrike at once per battle.
Rogue Archetype gets Sneak Attack with a non-scaling amount of damage.
Thaumaturge Archetype gets one Implement and only the first entry-level benefit for it.

Things like that.

So if gaining the Hex Cantrip via Witch Archetype, I would do something like make it a 'Focus 1' instead of a 'Focus Cantrip'.

That said, for Bard archetype, there is the option at lvl 8 for getting the equivalent "1 action class defining focus cantrip".

I wouldn't mind it being there for them Witch archetype either (and leaving the unique familiar abilities solely to the Witch as a defining feature).

[TheFinish]

shroudb wrote:

Finoan wrote:

Considering that the other classes that have a way to get the core mechanic of the class are getting a nerfed version of it, I think it would need to be more restrictive than a Hex Cantrip or permanent Familiar ability.

Magus Archetype can get Spellstrike at once per battle.
Rogue Archetype gets Sneak Attack with a non-scaling amount of damage.
Thaumaturge Archetype gets one Implement and only the first entry-level benefit for it.

Things like that.

So if gaining the Hex Cantrip via Witch Archetype, I would do something like make it a 'Focus 1' instead of a 'Focus Cantrip'.

That said, for Bard archetype, there is the option at lvl 8 for getting the equivalent "1 action class defining focus cantrip".

I wouldn't mind it being there for them Witch archetype either (and leaving the unique familiar abilities solely to the Witch as a defining feature).

I was just about to point this out. Level 8 for the Patron Hex Cantrip, leave the familiar ability restricted to full class witches.

[Captain Morgan]

All bards get inspire courage, and have options to pick up even better focus cantrips like Dirge of Doom besides. Witches are locked to just the one focus cantrip by their subclass. Thematically and mechanically, if a single class witch can't obtain another focus cantrip I would prefer multi class witches not be able to pilfer one. Personally speaking, of course.