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So I was thinking about the trait limit on Solarian Weapon (how you only get two, and two-hand d10, and reach count as two), and I had an odd idea:
What if, whenever the Solarian's weapon proficiency increases, you add +1 to the trait limit for Solarian weapon?
Meaning at 5th level, you can now have 3
At 13th, you have 4
And finally, at 19th, you have 5
I don't know, what does anyone else think? Sound good? Sound bad? Sound like "who cares"?
I like this idea. I'm not a fan of build-your-own-weapon templates in 2e, because the ones we've gotten so far with the Solarian and Pathfinder's Mind Smith I think make for very samey and limited weapons. Adding more traits to play with at higher levels could certainly add more combinations to the Solarian's solar weapon.
Personally, I'm still of the opinion that the Solarian's solar weapon could have just let you imitate the stats of any simple or martial melee weapon available to you. That alone would have added significantly more options and let the player play with the game's actual melee arsenal, without being complicated to use either. It would also have allowed for melee weapons with different damage dice, and proper two-handed weapons as well.
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1D8 with 2 Traits already puts the Solar Weapon way into Advanced weapon terrritoy . And that is before we add the Attunement bonuses, which you will have. If you add more traits, it starts being a Inventor or Mechanic too.
Two-Hand D10 is just twice the price and half the effect it should have been. Because they got confused between PF2 (2H is 2 die size) and SF1 (2H is 1 die size). Just correct it to D12 and 1 Trait point.
Sounds like a case to be made for the Errata thread
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Personally, I'm still of the opinion that the Solarian's solar weapon could have just let you imitate the stats of any simple or martial melee weapon available to you. That alone would have added significantly more options and let the player play with the game's actual melee arsenal, without being complicated to use either. It would also have allowed for melee weapons with different damage dice, and proper two-handed weapons as well.
You've said this before, Teridax, but I have to ask:
How would that work? Mechanically?1) Like, would the Solarian need to spend 10 minutes or longer holding the weapon in order to make a copy?
2) Does the Solarian weapon copy the physical weapons' upgrades/runes?
3) Does the Solarian weapon get upgrade slots like the physical weapon?
4) Does the Solarian need to interact with a different physical weapon in order to change their Solarian Weapon? Or does the Solarian just memorize the abilities of other weapons and can change their Solarian weapon with 10 minutes of meditation
5) If the former, how does the Solarian change their weapon if they found themselves in a place without alternative options and all enemies resist or are immune to their current Solarian Weapon's damage type? If the later, how many weapons can a Solarian have memorized?
6) What stops a Solarian from walking into the nearest "Weapons 'R' Us", ask to see the shops best weapons, copy it, then leave having spent no money?
7) What about the Solar Flare, does it still exist, or is it just copying guns?
I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm just asking the sort of things players might then question.
Also, and again, not to offend, but I feel like using the Mind Smith as part of why you dislike the Solarian Weapon doesn't work.
Mostly because the Mind Smith's "Mind Weapon" is a lot more limited and inflexible than the Solarian Weapon.
The Mind Weapon is less, "Build a Weapon" and more "Choose 4 options, then choose 3 options. Later, you can take additional feats to get a few more" with an additional, "Oh, and choose wisely, because changing them takes an in-game week!".
In contrast? Solarian Weapon is, "Here's a weapon: Pick a physical damage type! Then, pick a weapon group! Which one? Any! Then pick two traits from this list, or reach or two-handed! Don't like the final result? Just spend ten minutes to re-forge it completely!"
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> - If you aren't wielding the chosen weapon when attuning or drop it, you no longer have the weapon until you attune
Could you elaborate a bit more on this point?
Mostly because the wording feels a little unclear: Are you saying that losing the weapon means it's no longer bonded to you, and your Solarian Weapon manifests normally?Or does losing the weapon cause you to become unattuned?
You've said this before, Teridax, but I have to ask:
How would that work? Mechanically?1) Like, would the Solarian need to spend 10 minutes or longer holding the weapon in order to make a copy?
2) Does the Solarian weapon copy the physical weapons' upgrades/runes?
3) Does the Solarian weapon get upgrade slots like the physical weapon?
4) Does the Solarian need to interact with a different physical weapon in order to change their Solarian Weapon? Or does the Solarian just memorize the abilities of other weapons and can change their Solarian weapon with 10 minutes of meditation
5) If the former, how does the Solarian change their weapon if they found themselves in a place without alternative options and all enemies resist or are immune to their current Solarian Weapon's damage type? If the later, how many weapons can a Solarian have memorized?
6) What stops a Solarian from walking into the nearest "Weapons 'R' Us", ask to see the shops best weapons, copy it, then leave having spent no money?
7) What about the Solar Flare, does it still exist, or is it just copying guns?
1) I'd say you just make the weapon by picturing it in your mind.
2) You'd just make the nonmagical, commercial-grade version, i.e. the same basic version as now and would upgrade it with crystals, same as now.3) It ought to only accommodate what the solar weapon can currently accommodate.
4) No.
5) It is not the former, so this is not applicable.
6) They can already make a weapon for free. So long as the weapon you produce uses the base version as its template has its grade dependent on crystals, there should be no chance of stealing weapons just by looking at them.
7) This isn't relevant to the Solar Flare manifestation, though you could easily change that to a ranged weapon by following the same structure.
Also, and again, not to offend, but I feel like using the Mind Smith as part of why you dislike the Solarian Weapon doesn't work.
Mostly because the Mind Smith's "Mind Weapon" is a lot more limited and inflexible than the Solarian Weapon.
The Solarian's weapon is also limited and inflexible, is the point. Just because one is slightly more flexible than the other doesn't meant that the basic framework is fundamentally far less flexible than having dozens of meaningfully different weapons at your disposal, or hundreds if you include the Pathfinder arsenal.
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1) I'd say you just make the weapon by picturing it in your mind.
8) How would the multiclass archetype differ?
The Solarian's weapon is also limited and inflexible, is the point. Just because one is slightly more flexible than the other doesn't meant that the basic framework is fundamentally far less flexible than having dozens of meaningfully different weapons at your disposal, or hundreds if you include the Pathfinder arsenal.
So... you want the Solarian to have LITERALLY any weapon the game has.
Regardless of Rarity.Un-disarm-able.
Cannot be broken or destroyed.
Cannot be stolen or lost.
Will always be on hand the moment the Solarian attunes.
Can be snuck in anywhere the Solarian goes.
Can have damage ranging from d4 to d12 (though why anyone given this option would pick less than a d12, I don't personally know).
For free?
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well not regardless of rarity since that's a natural system limiter but..
the other things you mention don't even really seem that consequential tbh. so... sure?
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8) How would the multiclass archetype differ?
If the multiclass archetype has to differ in this respect, you could limit the solar weapon to simple weapons.
So... you want the Solarian to have LITERALLY any weapon the game has.
Regardless of Rarity.
I'm quite surprised you're assuming this when I said something very different:
Personally, I'm still of the opinion that the Solarian's solar weapon could have just let you imitate the stats of any simple or martial melee weapon available to you.
Emphasis added in bold; the idea was never to break conventional rules for access in 2e. I get that you dislike my idea, but you don't need to put words in my mouth to justify that dislike.
Un-disarm-able.
Cannot be broken or destroyed.
Cannot be stolen or lost.
Will always be on hand the moment the Solarian attunes.
Can be snuck in anywhere the Solarian goes.
Can have damage ranging from d4 to d12 (though why anyone given this option would pick less than a d12, I don't personally know).
For free?
Most of this is something you're advocating for already too, need I remind you, as everything besides the varying damage dice is part of the Solarian's current package, and you're advocating to add even more traits on top to push the power budget way beyond that of an advanced weapon. So yeah, that's what I'm asking for, I suppose, and I don't particularly see why that's a big deal.
SF1 has weapons that didn't exist below a specific Quality. It is possible they will add something like that again. Meaning you might not have a commercial version.
That I think is fine. At worst, you could just disallow those weapons, and otherwise you could just impose a minimal crystal requirement to bring your solar weapon up to that quality level.
I think the simplest fix for Solarian in general would just be to up their weapon proficiency by one bracket (not sure what the proper language on that is) when using solar weapon and solar flare. Yeah, they do eventually hit legendary at 19... which they still would, but for other weapons.
This would increases their hit rate and effective damage, which IMO is a bit lacking as you go up levels (their orbital crystals are not as strong as mods). And it would bring the attunement based critical effects (core class flavor) into play more often. I suspect this is how most players would try to use traits anyhow (though I'm sure the reach + trip combo would also be popular).
Since they do OK at low levels, this could be an ability that kicks in at some mid range level, say along with weapon specialization. On the other hand, it would feel oh so good to have from level 1, and even at those levels they seem more "OK" than S tier.
It might even make sense to restrict this to applying to only one attunement type, in effect brining back the attunement based subclasses as a proficiency based bonus. Then again, that might too highly discourage cycling attunement.
Since they do OK at low levels
Do they? I feel like level 1 is the point at which you most feel the effects of their underwhelming damage die, photon strikes' weak damage, and their lack of non-strike based powers (literally zero).
They tend to pick up at medium levels with the right feat choices when you start accumulating powers that actually do things.
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Since they do OK at low levelsDo they? I feel like level 1 is the point at which you most feel the effects of their underwhelming damage die, photon strikes' weak damage, and their lack of non-strike based powers (literally zero).
They tend to pick up at medium levels with the right feat choices when you start accumulating powers that actually do things.
If you're interested in dealing damage (either by yourself, or helping your team do it), at first level, I'd recommend either Hampering Flare or Twin Weapons.
Hampering Flare because it lets you inflict off-guard on a target until the start of your next turn for only one action.
Twin Weapons because it lets you get the twin trait on your Solarian weapons.
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Since they do OK at low levelsDo they? I feel like level 1 is the point at which you most feel the effects of their underwhelming damage die, photon strikes' weak damage, and their lack of non-strike based powers (literally zero).
They tend to pick up at medium levels with the right feat choices when you start accumulating powers that actually do things.
The fact you almost certainly are adding +4 to the damage dice helps. I took Binauric Assault to get two zero MAP cracks at that, and don't even feel bad when I double wiff.
Maybe a Melee soldier does better, but my "OK" was just that - sufficient to get by. Good to know they actually go up from there, I expected the opposite.