Touching with fists…


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

Verdant Wheel

I remember in 1e that it was allowed use unarmed/natural attacks to deliver touch attack spells. Is this still possible without being a Magus?


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No.

Touch range spells work differently in that there's not necessarily an attack roll to touch/make contact. It might target AC or it might directly require a save w/o a roll to touch. AND you can't hold the charge like in PF1. Once the spell's cast, it's resolved; no precasting to touch later or stack w/ an attack. In PF2 "touch" is only the same as saying the spell's range is your reach (or 0' in some mechanics), plus that you might get hurt if they're spiky or have acidic skin, etc.). Nothing odd about them like in PF1.

A Magus (or MCD Magus) does have Spellstrike which combines cast + Strike, and they occur in one package (and it doesn't need to be a touch spell). So in that sense yes, this imagery still is a Magus thing (and Eldritch Archer's, but not for unarmed attacks). But most casters don't want this because they have a higher spell attack bonus anyway or dislike risking losing the spell due to a miss/critical miss.

Gouging Claw is one way to feel like you're attacking like a savage beast while unleashing a magical attack.

ETA: A Monk's Inner Upheaval spell features an unarmed Strike or Flurry, and there are other spells that also feature Strikes, like Blink Charge which came in Secrets of Magic alongside the Magus.


Vaikesh wrote:
I remember in 1e that it was allowed use unarmed/natural attacks to deliver touch attack spells. Is this still possible without being a Magus?

In 1e Magus (specifically the Spellstrike class feature) is what allowed casting spells with a range of 'touch' using an unarmed attack. Or a weapon attack. Without that, it wasn't possible.

If you are instead meaning to use an unarmed attack's melee reach to deliver spells with a range of 'touch' (without actually making the melee attack and dealing the unarmed strike damage), that depends on the GM. And probably the unarmed attack in question. There are also a few things that specify that you can use the extended reach to deliver touch spells with such as Tripkee: Long Tongue

Grand Archive

Vaikesh wrote:
I remember in 1e that it was allowed use unarmed/natural attacks to deliver touch attack spells. Is this still possible without being a Magus?

Somewhat:

Quote:

Touch Range

A spell with a touch range requires you to physically touch the target. You use your unarmed reach to determine whether you can touch the creature. You can usually touch them automatically, though the spell might specify that they can attempt a saving throw or that you must attempt a spell attack roll. If an ability increases the range of a touch spell, start at 0 feet and increase from there.

Touch Range

But as others said, Touch AC as a concept was discarded. So touch spells are either normal spell attack rolls or just use saves.
Touch spells are a straight a downside, because they force your caster into melee Range of the enemy.


Yeah, big thing to know with Touch Range in PF2 is that there is no touch AC or reduced AC to target. Touch Range is literally just telling you that you are going to use whatever your normal reach is (without weapon) to deliver the spell.

The spell will tell you to make either a Spell Attack roll or for your target to make a save.

Since Spell Attack rolls use your casting stat, level, and proficiency it's "on-par" with a martials to hit value versus regular AC, so there is no reduced AC to target (as there was in PF1).

Liberty's Edge

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If the ability you use to deliver the spell does not mention making a Strike, then you do not get one.


The Raven Black wrote:
If the ability you use to deliver the spell does not mention making a Strike, then you do not get one.

As far as I know, that's basically only spellstrike.

Although there are a few spells that tell you to make a strike, as part of their effect (although the ones I'm thinking of target you the caster).


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Claxon wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
If the ability you use to deliver the spell does not mention making a Strike, then you do not get one.
As far as I know, that's basically only spellstrike.

Also weapons with a Spell Reservoir rune.

Grand Lodge

Ah yes, the one spell even a raging barbarian can cast:

"I cast FIST TO YOUR FACE!"


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Mangaholic13 wrote:

Ah yes, the one spell even a raging barbarian can cast:

"I cast FIST TO YOUR FACE!"

Barbarians can also cast iron.

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