| OgreEye |
Originally I had the same question for gada-takedown expert-investigator, but I realized that that one's wording was a bit more cut and dry. This one feels like a grey area, however; you start and end one handed, so would you be able to use implement's empowerment? Or would it be not qualify because it counts as a two handed weapon when the strike impacts?
| Claxon |
No because your implement empowerment stops working if you hold anything other than a one handed weapon, implement, or esoterica.
Implement's Empowerment
The power of your implement can also be turned to the more common task of combat, its power adding to and amplifying the effects of runes and other magical empowerments. When you Strike, you can trace mystic patterns with an implement you're holding to empower the Strike, causing it to deal 2 additional damage per weapon damage die. Channeling the power requires full use of your hands. You don't gain the benefit of implement's empowerment if you are holding anything in either hand other than a single one-handed weapon, other implements, or esoterica, and you must be holding at least one implement to gain the benefit.
The moment you switch to a two-handed grip of your weapon, you no longer qualify to be using implement empowerment.
And there's clarify text (that I don't know where its located right off) that when using a weapon in two-hands (like dual handed assault) it counts for things like Empowerment, exactly like this scenario.
| Finoan |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
There is also the clarifications in the FAQ regarding handedness of items.
Pages 279–280 (Clarification): If I hold a weapon that requires 1 hand in 2 hands, is it a 2-handed weapon?
There are two answers to this.
For abilities that count the number of hands for a weapon while you're using it, such as an action with "Requirements You are wielding a one-handed melee weapon," count the actual number of hands you're using at the time. If you're holding a bastard sword in two hands, you couldn't use it with that ability. Weapons with the "1+" notation in their description, such as most bows, use both your hands when shooting, but leave you with a hand free for other actions the rest of the time.
Anything that's an intrinsic part of the weapon, such as a shifting rune, works differently. Reference the weapon's "Hands" entry in the weapons table—a bastard sword requires 1 hand, even though it gets a benefit in two hands from the two-hand trait. If you were holding a shifting bastard sword in two hands and activated it, you could turn it into a longsword (which you'd still be holding in two hands), but couldn't turn it into a greatsword (which requires 2 hands). For this purpose, "1" and "1+" are the same (though this doesn't matter for shifting since "1+" appears ranged weapons).
So choosing a Weapon Implement uses the weapons intrinsic handedness. You can choose a bastard sword as your Weapon Implement because it is intrinsically a 1-hand weapon. You couldn't choose a greatsword.
Gaining the benefits of Implement's Empowerment uses the handedness of the item at the time that the weapon is being used. A bastard sword wielded 1-handed, Implement's Empowerment's requirements are met and the ability applies. If it is instead wielded 2-handed then Implement's Empowerment's requirements are not met and the ability does not apply.
Dual-Handed Assault is a bit tricky. During the action - including during the Strike that is made as a subordinate action - the weapon is being wielded 2-handed. So Implement's Empowerment would not have its requirements met and would not apply. Dual-Handed Assault does have an override preventing some things that require 1-handed weapons from having their requirements violated - but only Stances and Fighter feat effects. The override doesn't extend all the way to Thaumaturge effects without houserules.
Ascalaphus
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Thaumaturges are expected to have a hand occupied with an implement (to use the implement, and Exploit Vulnerability). That means they could only use a one-handed weapon in the remaining hand, which tends to have a bit low damage. To compensate for that, you get Implement's Empowerment.
If you have a bastard sword weapon implement that you're using in two hands, you're not actually stuck with a low-damage-die weapon situation, so you also don't get/deserve the compensation.
Note that other thaumaturge abilities work fine when you're using a big weapon, like Exploit Vulnerability. It's just the compensation you get for being forced to use a one-handed weapon that you don't get.
Mangaholic13
|
Well now that cat's out of bag about DA (remastered) being made, I'm crossing my fingers that thaumaturge hand use (or even just the text) might be simplified. But, not holding my breath.
Hold on... Back up! What's this about Dark Archives Remastered!? Where? When?? How long do we have to wait???
You can't just casually say something like that, man!!!!!!!| NorrKnekten |
I believe we got the confirmation that DA and SoM are getting remastered around the time of Guns and Gears Remaster.
No date about it yet which explains why its not on release scheduale, and we just got Treasure Vault Remaster so, we arent getting it this year.
... well.. unless you count the Barnes and Noble's slip up which places the publication date at early Feb 2026.
| Claxon |
Well now that cat's out of bag about DA (remastered) being made, I'm crossing my fingers that thaumaturge hand use (or even just the text) might be simplified. But, not holding my breath.
I would hope that it will be simplified, but I expect it'll work basically the same way.
The whole thing is written in a complicated way so that you wield esoterica, your implements, and a one handed weapon all at the same time but to preclude you from two-handed weapons.
Mangaholic13
|
They might simplify the language and/or include a sidebar about where or not using a two-handed weapon as an implement is possible period.
Certain retailers posted product pages for the Dark Archive remaster. Notably, Barnes and Noble also specifies a release date of February 2. *shrug*
Not just Barnes and Noble. I saw a listing on Amazon too.
I believe we got the confirmation that DA and SoM are getting remastered around the time of Guns and Gears Remaster.
I still seriously doubt Secrets of Magic is getting a remaster. Not only does it contain the removed spell schools, but content from it has been remastered in other books (namely, the Elementalist and Runelord).
I just don't see it happening.| Tridus |
I still seriously doubt Secrets of Magic is getting a remaster. Not only does it contain the removed spell schools, but content from it has been remastered in other books (namely, the Elementalist and Runelord).
I just don't see it happening.
Yeah. These aren't "remasters" like Player Core: they maintain the same page count and layout. Any changes have to fit inside that constraint. Paizo talked about that when the G&G Remaster was coming out.
That's pretty doable for G&G and Dark Archive as they just need to tweak wording, do some updates, and such. But SoM has large swaths of the book that no longer apply (and need to be rewritten) or have already been remastered. It would be a much bigger deal to update.
The more likely outcome is we continue to see content from it appear in other books going forward. Spells can gradually get remastered in any book that has space for them, and that was a LOT of SoM. I don't know where you'd fit Magus and Summoner, but there might be an option down the road.
| Easl |
Easl wrote:Well now that cat's out of bag about DA (remastered) being made, I'm crossing my fingers that thaumaturge hand use (or even just the text) might be simplified. But, not holding my breath.Hold on... Back up! What's this about Dark Archives Remastered!? Where? When?? How long do we have to wait???
You can't just casually say something like that, man!!!!!!!
Sorry lol, it hit the threads like a month ago.
As others explained, B&N first and then Amazon, now list 'Dark Archive (Remastered)' as being available for preorder. I think B&N listed it before Paizo had announced they were doing it, which was an oopsie on someone's part...but an oopsie the boards were quick to jump on.