Dualclassing and Class DC: RaW feels weird


Rules Discussion


So as I look at class DC, it seems on the surface to be a no-brainer for dual class; each class has a DC specifically named for them, so they should level separately. However, I run into an interesting hiccup; as far as I can tell, many things that use a class DC will simply say "your class DC", instead of specifying, say, inventor class DC, and I don't see anything stopping you from simply choosing the higher of your 2 class DCs, even if it's not the one from the class you get the feat through. RaI this is obvious, but my tables tend to basically read RaW as the Bible, so is there anything I'm missing?


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the first thing you miss: this is an optional rule, you are technically in homebrew territorry so RaW and RaI are all a bit malleable

but as someone who plays dual class regulary I would say if a feat is from one specific class, ot uses that class' dc

as a counterpoint, there are feats which let you choose 'your class or spell dc whichever is higher', those are an exception, but not necessarily one that shuts down the argument

in the end its all gm fiat


Dualclass is an optional variant rule so it makes sense that the rules does not cover this.

So you aren't really missing something, moreso the rules assume you dont play with dualclassing. I would assume that you use the Class DC relevant for the thing, but I can also see someone ruling it as you using the higher of the two proficiencies despite the two class DCs being two different proficiencies.


If you're doing an Inventor thing that says class DC, you should be using Inventor class DC. A generic thing would use your higher class DC instead (like the Flail Critical Specialization). This can actually happen in the normal rules with archetypes anyway as some of them give a class DC (like Inventor).

As for RAW being the bible... well, dual class wasn't reprinted in GM Core and was super wonky even before it was dropped. If you're going to use a variant rule that warps the game as much as this one does, you're going to have no choice but to deal with the edge cases yourselves via GM rulings.


Part of running dual-class is the GM deciding which version to run. You will get some very different results if you just use one class DC. It's not a matter of what the rules say, because the rules weren't designed for this; it's what the group and GM want.


Since multiclasses have their own class DC, I'd be inclined to use seperate DCs. Class DC scaling can vary by 4 levels in extreme cases (Kineticists and the Playtest Commander fastest, while classes like Barbarian and rouge scale the slowest), so it could be a noticable buff in some cases. On the other hand, it's not as big a buff as many fighter dual classes, so it's a GM call.


Does "RAI" stand for "rules as I want them to be"? Just curious. ;-)

"Rouge". Heh.

Hm. Does the fact that the dual class option was not included in GM Core mean that the option is not available in post-Remaster games? From HeroLab Online: "Anything from pre-remaster books that has not been reprinted is still available and will remain so." So I guess my answer is "no". :-)

Grand Lodge

What do you mean "not available"? What do you think is going to happen?


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Prophecy no longer works, so how could I possibly know what's going to happen?


Super Zero wrote:
What do you mean "not available"? What do you think is going to happen?

You will be taken into custody!


Ed Reppert wrote:

Does "RAI" stand for "rules as I want them to be"? Just curious. ;-)

"Rouge". Heh.

You jest, but sometimes. ;)

RAI is "rules as intended". The problem with that is that we often don't actually know what's intended, and people project what they think is intended which just happens to line up with how they think it should work.

There are times when it is clear: Arcane Cascade was RAW broken for years because the stance ended as soon as you entered the stance, due to no longer meeting the requirements of the stance. That said, the RAI was very clear since "a stance that ends as soon as you enter the stance" doesn't make any sense and there's no way they would put that into the game intentionally.

Quote:
Hm. Does the fact that the dual class option was not included in GM Core mean that the option is not available in post-Remaster games? From HeroLab Online: "Anything from pre-remaster books that has not been reprinted is still available and will remain so." So I guess my answer is "no". :-)

Well its already a variant rule, and a GM doesn't need Paizo's permission to use it. But yeah, generally anything that wasn't reprinted is still valid unless a GM says otherwise.

It also happens to be a game-warping rule that isn't remotely balanced and boosts some builds far, far more than others, but if people know that going in, it's their table. I suspect it wasn't reprinted because given the issues it causes, it probably wasn't worth page space (aka: money) to update/reprint.

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