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Look at the archetypes Dandy, Folklorist, Loremaster. Any of them will do the equivalent. There are probably more besides.
Nope. You aren't missing anything, nor would I expect it ever becomes available.
Reasonable would be to compare it to acquiring Bardic Lore. Bardic Lore caps out at Expert (at 15th if you get Legendary in Occult) and requires a class or MCD, a Muse (no extra cost), and a feat (albeit only 1st level). AND it doesn't use the Bard's Charisma/main stat. A Sorcerer could MCD Bard then get it at 4th, giving them two extra Cantrips and skills along the way. Expecting to use Charisma though should cost extra (if allowed at all), and if they want it to progress beyond Expert (and late game at that), then we're looking more at...
Master Monster Hunter, Ranger 10th (w/ a 1st level prereq), a beloved feat that best mirrors what your Sorcerer player probably wants, being able to lump all enemies under one skill. Except there's no reasonable way to get this (and change it one's key stat).
If forced, I'd consider a Thaumaturge's Esoteric Lore similar to some other signature abilities, like Flurry of Blows, where even the Archetype doesn't give until 10th (and maybe a stilted version at that). Or if using Monster Hunter as a template, I'd do what many Archetypes do and bump up the cost 2 levels so it'd be a 12th level feat for a brand new Archetype based on "cosmic insight" or something (where an earlier feat or the Dedication itself could justify using Charisma in broader ways).
There's also the Dandy Archetype w/ Gossip Lore, though it's also capped at Trained (until Expert when PC's Legendary at Society) and it's also based on Int (despite the Dandy being about Cha skills).
I might also consider a Legendary Skill Feat, but I suppose that'd be too late for your player's tastes. There's also the possibility of making it a Focus Spell or just a spell even (Occult, maybe others).
So yeah, it's pretty easy to get a diminished (but broader!) version based on Int, but to get an "all monsters" Recall Knowledge ability that progresses normally that should be equally costly to Master Monster Hunter w/ some extra cost for being abnormal for a Sorcerer and also for using Charisma. That's reasonable from PF2's perspective, though I imagine most players won't find that reasonable to actually invest in.
There's also the Dual-Class option, though that's extreme IMO.
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Everybody is envious of diverse lore, especially charisma classes.
A completely different way, but sometimes even more powerful, would be Oracle archetype to grab Whispers of Weakness, at least as far as combat applications of recall knowledge are concerned.
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It is one of the limitations of PF2 that gaining a widely applicable "Lore" is restricted to the Cha-based bard and thaumature classes (the Bardic Lore feat can be picked up via the multiclass archetype; Bardic Lore is still Int-based, however); or by taking an archetype.
An elf witch or a wizard can leverage the Ancestral Longevity/Expert Longevity/Universal Longevity ancestry feats with the Loremaster archetype to fill pretty much the same role (possibly a bit better, by selecting applicable lore skills [which often have slightly lower DCs] for the expected encounters).
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Everybody is envious of diverse lore, especially charisma classes.
A completely different way, but sometimes even more powerful, would be Oracle archetype to grab Whispers of Weakness, at least as far as combat applications of recall knowledge are concerned.
Oracle also offers Access Lore to pick up a Lore skill at scaling proficiency temporarily, for the non-combat aspects. The two combined have quite a lot of it covered and aren't a ton of investment.
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It is one of the limitations of PF2 that gaining a widely applicable "Lore" is restricted to the Cha-based bard and thaumature classes (the Bardic Lore feat can be picked up via the multiclass archetype; Bardic Lore is still Int-based, however); or by taking an archetype.
An elf witch or a wizard can leverage the Ancestral Longevity/Expert Longevity/Universal Longevity ancestry feats with the Loremaster archetype to fill pretty much the same role (possibly a bit better, by selecting applicable lore skills [which often have slightly lower DCs] for the expected encounters).
For what its worth, Bestiary Scholar and Universal Theory work great here as well, and can scale up to legendary with Arcana.
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For what its worth, Bestiary Scholar and Universal Theory work great here as well, and can scale up to legendary with Arcana.It is one of the limitations of PF2 that gaining a widely applicable "Lore" is restricted to the Cha-based bard and thaumature classes (the Bardic Lore feat can be picked up via the multiclass archetype; Bardic Lore is still Int-based, however); or by taking an archetype.
An elf witch or a wizard can leverage the Ancestral Longevity/Expert Longevity/Universal Longevity ancestry feats with the Loremaster archetype to fill pretty much the same role (possibly a bit better, by selecting applicable lore skills [which often have slightly lower DCs] for the expected encounters).
Unified Theory doesn't work for Recall Knowledge checks, it's only for a "skill action or skill feat that requires a Nature, Occultism, or Religion check, depending on the magic tradition."
It's for things like Trick Magic item, Identify Magic, Learn a Spell, Recognize Spell, Quick Identification, Magical Shorthand, and Quick Recognition. It doesn't work for Recall Knowledge (which depends on the type of monster, not the magic tradition involved) or Decipher Writing (which depends on the type of text), even when those end up using a magic related skill for non-magic tradition purposes.
This is a sad epiphany all Arcane justifiers go through. I am an opponent of the wizard death penalty and take no pleasure in reporting this.
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It works on Recall Knowledge sometimes depending on the subject. But yes, it works on something where you'd roll Nature to know about something related to primal magic, not on something where you'd roll Nature to know about an animal.
1 - You're not missing anything, Esoteric Lore is strictly for the Thaumaturge.
2 - If there's no Thaumaturge in the party just let them lose Sorcerous Potency for it. First level feature for first level feature. Tit for tat.
There's also the Dandy Archetype w/ Gossip Lore, though it's also capped at Trained (until Expert when PC's Legendary at Society) and it's also based on Int (despite the Dandy being about Cha skills).
Charisma applying to Gossip Lore would actually make a lot of sense, and there's some precedence for the rules for substituting ability modifiers to skill rolls where something makes more sense than the default. Since it will have crappy proficiency still, that's not an outrageous compromise to offer the player.
Charisma applying to Gossip Lore would actually make a lot of sense, and there's some precedence for the rules for substituting ability modifiers to skill rolls where something makes more sense than the default. Since it will have crappy proficiency still, that's not an outrageous compromise to offer the player.
There's also the Dandy Archetype w/ Gossip Lore, though it's also capped at Trained (until Expert when PC's Legendary at Society) and it's also based on Int (despite the Dandy being about Cha skills).
I was stating the default, and being allowed to use Charisma feels like a big ask, especially with such broad use. I might allow Charisma if rolling where gossip circulates, like in a tavern or at a social event.
I was stating the default, and being allowed to use Charisma feels like a big ask, especially with such broad use. I might allow Charisma if rolling where gossip circulates, like in a tavern or at a social event.Charisma applying to Gossip Lore would actually make a lot of sense, and there's some precedence for the rules for substituting ability modifiers to skill rolls where something makes more sense than the default. Since it will have crappy proficiency still, that's not an outrageous compromise to offer the player.
There's also the Dandy Archetype w/ Gossip Lore, though it's also capped at Trained (until Expert when PC's Legendary at Society) and it's also based on Int (despite the Dandy being about Cha skills).
I think the point of Gossip Lore is that EVERYTHING you roll from it was heard where gossip circulates. If you're at a place where you can actively gather more gossip, you're rolling Gather Information with Diplomacy, not Recall Knowledge.
I agree this is a big ask, but the GM/OP here is looking for a way to give someone the more powerful Esoteric Lore already. Otherwise, they are left with... I dunno, trading away sorcerous potency? That might technically be more balanced but makes less sense,IMO.
Right, it's because it mirrors Gather Information (which typically depends on Charisma) that I would allow Charisma in those instances. But unlike GI, the result would be instantaneous...no actual gathering. The Dandy already assumes one is collecting gossip, and the proficiency bumps are tied to Society, an Int-skill. So I wouldn't be looking to expand on that except when directly applying one's Charisma...which in turn resembles other skills, yes.
ETA: My default answer would be laughter.