Creating a backlash build

[williamoak]

Heya folks!
I'm soon gonna have the opportunity to play a little, and I've been mulling over a backlash build. The Ghoran's Wicked Thorns spoke to me, but that's ultimately a 1/day (1/hour at level 5) thing. So I started looking for other ways to hurt those who hit me. I've found a few:

-Twinning chains: Decent, scaling damaged BUT its only against unarmed attacks
-Fury Barbarian: Come and get me, and forcing a low AC could make vengeful strike fairly useful.
-Look dont touch: Pretty fun, but only 1 minute/day
-Nettleskin spell: Cant see a way to get this through feats, but maybe an item?

Anything I might be missing? I dont mind if it's with various energy types, I just havent found anything else.

[Eoran]

Needle of Vengeance and Blood Vendetta would also be options.

Though if Nettleskin being a spell is too cost prohibitive, both of these options likely will be as well.

[Xenocrat]

Metal Kineticist has a thorns aura junction.

[williamoak]

Eoran wrote:

Needle of Vengeance and Blood Vendetta would also be options.

Though if Nettleskin being a spell is too cost prohibitive, both of these options likely will be as well.

I'm not super familiar with items in 2e, so I'll admit I'm not sure what the actual cost would be.

[Easl]

Some clarification:

Needle of Vengeance is a witch hex, a type of focus spell.

Blood Vendetta is a R2 spell. For a wand (1 use/day), that would be 160gp.

Kineticist thorn aura is from wood, not metal. You can't put this in an item either. Also it doesn't trigger when you're attacked, it triggers if someone moves into one of the spaces of your aura.

You could get all 3 from a Kineticist with Witch archetype by Level 6, or a Witch with Kineticist archetype by level 8. Though going kineticist with witch archetype will limit your Blood Vendetta casts pretty significantly.

[Perses13]

If you're looking at Ghoran, you may also want to look at Quillcoat Shisk from the Mwangi Expanse as they have a similar ability (also 1/day but can be 1/10 minutes at level 5).

[Xenocrat]

Easl wrote:

Some clarification:

Kineticist thorn aura is from wood, not metal. You can't put this in an item either. Also it doesn't trigger when you're attacked, it triggers if someone moves into one of the spaces of your aura.

"Thorns effects" is a general term for anything that hurts someone who touches or hits you with a non-reach weapon. The metal kineticist impulse junction is a thorns effect that does half your level in acid, electricity, or slashing for one round if you use a two action impulse.

[Dr. Frank Funkelstein]

A Shields of Spirit Champion as a buddy. Doesn't work for yourself though.

[Easl]

Xenocrat wrote:

The metal kineticist impulse junction is a thorns effect that does half your level in acid, electricity, or slashing for one round if you use a two action impulse.

Ah I see what you were referencing. Though why not both? :) A Kineticist (Witch archetype) build can get Metal Impulse Junction + Ravel of Thorns + Blood Vendetta + Needle of Vengeance by level 6.

Though that's a lot of build tuned to a tactic that can be defeated by an enemy deciding "hmm...I'll just go over here and attack Bob instead." So maybe a more strategic bit of advice to the OP is: battlefield control should be like half this build. You need to prevent your opponent from moving to another target just as much as you need to damage them for attacking you.

Frankly, the best 'punishment' ability may be the most simple and obvious: reactive strike.

[Perses13]

Dr. Frank Funkelstein wrote:

A Shields of Spirit Champion as a buddy. Doesn't work for yourself though.

There's also the three different champion causes that damage your enemy or increase the damage of your next attack when you take damage.

[shroudb]

Easl wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

The metal kineticist impulse junction is a thorns effect that does half your level in acid, electricity, or slashing for one round if you use a two action impulse.

Ah I see what you were referencing. Though why not both? :) A Kineticist (Witch archetype) build can get Metal Impulse Junction + Ravel of Thorns + Blood Vendetta + Needle of Vengeance by level 6.

Though that's a lot of build tuned to a tactic that can be defeated by an enemy deciding "hmm...I'll just go over here and attack Bob instead." So maybe a more strategic bit of advice to the OP is: battlefield control should be like half this build. You need to prevent your opponent from moving to another target just as much as you need to damage them for attacking you.

Frankly, the best 'punishment' ability may be the most simple and obvious: reactive strike.

If we're going Kineticist, Earth also has the pseudo-stoneskin that damages enemies when they hit you.

[williamoak]

Easl wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

The metal kineticist impulse junction is a thorns effect that does half your level in acid, electricity, or slashing for one round if you use a two action impulse.

Ah I see what you were referencing. Though why not both? :) A Kineticist (Witch archetype) build can get Metal Impulse Junction + Ravel of Thorns + Blood Vendetta + Needle of Vengeance by level 6.

Though that's a lot of build tuned to a tactic that can be defeated by an enemy deciding "hmm...I'll just go over here and attack Bob instead." So maybe a more strategic bit of advice to the OP is: battlefield control should be like half this build. You need to prevent your opponent from moving to another target just as much as you need to damage them for attacking you.

Frankly, the best 'punishment' ability may be the most simple and obvious: reactive strike.

For now I'm aiming for Ghoran barbarian (probably ligneous or elemental), with maybe a kineticist archetype. I'd already planned for reactive strike, though the "no escape" feat gives me a way to stop them leaving my zone.

This cloak would probably be useful:
https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1820
A wand of nettleskin could be useful, and though it is fairly short-duration its largely what I want.